What are the real differences in these two .44 bullets?

[Bigoledude]

I can read the simplest mechanical drawings. The obvious differences like weights and nose shape are understood. I know the gas-check allows more velocity. Let's assume both are plain-base just for the sake of discussion.

My question is more performance related. Will the Keith-style bullet tend to hang-up in a lever-action?

Will the round nose with larger meplat of the Ranch Dog sacrifice killing performance? Does the extra bearing surface of the Keith bullet make it fly better?

What makes you choose one over the other?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=62501&highlight=ranch+dog+mold

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=53437

[stubshaft]

The larger meplat increases tissue displacement. It has been shown that the shoulder on the Keith design does not normally effect tissue displacement. I have shot Keith style boolits in lever actions and did not encounter any issues with feeding. I use the RD design in my 45/70 with great accuracy and stopping power. I have used Keith style boolits in my 44 with great accuracy and deceent stopping power. Given a choice I would probably pick the RD boolit with a GC.

[jdgabbard]

+1

I'd pick the RD over a keith for woods duty any day.

[Leftoverdj]

Big, were there easy answers, we would not have all these bullets designs. Some rifles feed SWCs perfectly. Other rifles feed some SWCs. Other rifles may hang with large meplat bullets. I'll admit a preference for RNFP bullets, but it sure ain't set in stone.

[EDK]

I have the MI-HEC mould AND an original RD, both six cavity versions. They both feed in my 1894 MARLINS. I size to .431, lube with LARS' 50/50, and use magnum brass.

I will be ordering the RD clone from NOE shortly....in a five cavity PLAIN BASE. I don't need gas checks for most of my shooting, but really like this boolit. The LYMAN 429667 has also worked well for me.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[runfiverun]

depending on the nose length the keith may feed in your levergun.
i modified my 92 just a bit to feed the 429421 which that picture appears to be a copy of.
the r/d molds are deigned to work in the marlins and are for hunting.
a flat meplat is always a good choice for hunting,the keiths were designed to cut a straight path through flesh.

[Bigoledude]

At about 1300 - 1800fps, do you suppose the hollow-point version of the Ranch Dog would expand too rapidly, with not enough penetration, on large Russian boars? I would prefer to have these big suckers bleeding-n-breathing outta two holes!

On the Ranch Dog, will the gas-check be even with the bearing surface of the bands? Or, is the gas check a little thicker there to prevent the gasses from blowing past the base?

[Leftoverdj]

Big, the difference is more theoretical than practical. Copper is more resilient than lead. When you run your bullets through your sizer, both are forced to the same diameter, but the GC will spring back the tiniest bit, I very much doubt that is of any importance except to satisfy curiosity.

Were I trying to shoot through more than a foot of pigmeat, I'd avoid hollowpoints,

[waco]

contrary to popular belief, the driving band of a keith style boolit WILL disrupt tissue and make a good wound channel(full diameter)

[helice]

Your question on the Ranch Dog hollow point brings to mind the reason for that big flat nose. That meplat is big enough to cause enough tissue disruption on its own. As that bullet passes thru tissue the fluids it displaces are sprayed out to the sides like the water from a 360 degree rainbird sprinkler. That's why we get such large wound channels with these big flat nosed solids. To my thinking the hollow point is "pointless" :D in a slug .40 cal and above. Helice

[MtGun44]

For most animals a near half inch leak in important parts will cause serious problems in
a very short time. A 240 gr flat point .44 or .45 at 1000 fps will exit an elk on a broadside
shot and many have been reported to exit bison on broadside shots. With proper boolit
placement, I think the point becomes fairly academic. Not totally uninteresting, and I have
recently had .357 and 44 cal Keith molds modified for HP, so clearly I am not against it.

I just doubt that it will be a huge factor in most cases, really. Doesn't mean I won't spend
a bunch of time casting and testing and hunting with Keith HPs. I love to experiment, but
try to remember that we fiddlers are probably going fairly far overboard on this - but it sure
is FUN! ;-)

That warthog in the pic on the left took a 429421 at 1250 fps about 2-3" too far back in
the shoulder area, just off the point of the joint. Spun 360 at the shot so I saw the
blood at the exit hole and took of at a full speed run. Died on his feet about 30 yds away
while running at top speed and crashed into a tree when he lost steering control. Maybe
a HP might have stopped him a tad better with my placement error, altho it was at 75 yds
so a couple inches off from a field position isn't too bad, just not perfect.

Bill