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View Full Version : Gonna try a new one with the SMLE



jonk
10-22-2009, 09:14 AM
I've been doing ok with cast lead and lube/gc in my Pattern 14 and No4Mk1 but figured I'd try some PP. I've been doing ok with it in my Krag so am going to expand my efforts.

I figure, the Lee 200 gr drops at .309. I might size to .308 for kicks.

2 wraps should bring that up to 316 or so. I shouldn't even have to size after wrapping, maybe a touch of LLA.

I haven't slugged the bore- it doesn't lead with .314 so I'm guessing it's around there anyhow- but if the .316 will chamber, all should be fine.

Now here's the rub. Usually when I try going oversized like this, things bind in the seating die. I have an 'extra' set of RGB Lee dies that I could probably lap out with a little grinding compound for this. But I'm going to be really cheap first- let's see how the .316 fits the neck with NO SIZING! If I could load with a mid to slow burning powder (slower than 4895) and top off with PSB or similar, I could just press fit the bullets and chamber them, no?

Only issue I see with that is lack of pressure on ignition due to lack of neck tension yields inconsistent results, but we can always try. :)

Hmmm... another possibility might be to seat in an 8mm Mauser die and then use the 303 crimp if needed....

Just thinking out loud.

docone31
10-22-2009, 09:27 AM
Go for it!
If your leads go well at .314, paper will do better at the same diameter.
I might just size to .314.
My SMLE, shines at .314.

1874Sharps
10-22-2009, 05:55 PM
Your ideas seem very sound to me. I found on the bullet seating die that I have to back it out a few turns and then screw the the stem down a bit. The reason for this is that the patch tends to tear if the die is left as normal for CBs or jacketed. You might want to avoid the crimp or at least be very judicious in using a crimp, as that can cut the patch. Tell us how it goes and good luck!

Piedmont
10-22-2009, 10:33 PM
I seat .318" boolits for my .303 using an 8mm seater die. Works fine.

docone31
10-22-2009, 10:45 PM
To seat my paper patched boolitts, I had to send two wrapped castings and my Dies to Lee.
A quick two week turn around!
Before this, my Dies were pushing the wrapped boolitt into the case, or tearing the patch.
I tried everything. Sending the Dies to Lee solved the issue completely. I now have Dies for Jacketeds, and patcheds.

303Guy
10-22-2009, 11:16 PM
Only issue I see with that is lack of pressure on ignition due to lack of neck tension yields inconsistent results,I doubt that neck tension will affect consistancy with a heavy boolit. In fact, it might even be beneficial to eliminate neck tension as neck tension is in itself a variable. With a boolit sized at .316 in a .313 grooved barrel, the boolit is going to seat up against the leade taper anyway, giving it a high degree of consistancy. A consideration would be the power of the primer to dislodge the boolit from the case. If the boolit has nowhere to go but up against the leade then all's good. That's my take on it anyway. I have found no difference between tension seated j-words and finger fit patched boolits in ignition intensity - but I have not measured anything! Finger fit j-words seemed to be no different from tension fit j-words. Accuracy was the same but POI shifted a little if I remember correctly. On the other hand, I obtained good accuracy with heavy cast boolits (225gr) with slow powder (Varget) and finger fit in an unsized neck (.317 boolits).

Zeek
10-24-2009, 12:51 AM
. . . . Now here's the rub. Usually, when I try going oversized like this, things bind in the seating die. I have an 'extra' set of RGB Lee dies that I could probably lap out with a little grinding compound for this. But I'm going to be really cheap first- let's see how the .316 fits the neck with NO SIZING!
The Lee 303 seater die will do fine, with one adjustment. Remove the top cap and pusher rod and clamp the die in your vice with the top pointing up. Note the very thin web of metal between the top and bottom part. The hole in it will be around 0.313" or so. All you need to do is to use a Dremel carbide burr to open that hole up (as evenly as possible) to ~0.320" and it will let your paper patched bullets go right through.

I use this trick on my Lee dies all the time. As a matter of fact, only Lee dies allow this sort of adjustment, given that the other brands use a long hardened hole (too difficult to grind or even access).

However, like someone else indicated, why not just use a Lee 8mm Mauser seater die and be done with it . . . it will have a hole ~0.325" in it.
Zeek

jonk
10-27-2009, 09:24 AM
So I tried it as I proposed first. 200 gr Lee bullet, double wrap of onion skin paper, cases unsized, bullet press fit by hand. I tried 2 charges- 36 gr of 4895 and 42 gr of ACCUR 4350, both with PSB filler to the base of the case neck (where I seated the bullet to). I also smeared a little LLA on the paper to both help the patch stay on and provide a little lubrication.

Neither was worth a darn.

I got no leading, so the patches were doing their job in that area- and it cleaned up with just 2 wet and 1 dry patch. The bullets stabilized, i.e. didn't tumble, but there was no grouping to speak of.

I think I know what went wrong. I think that the double wrapped bullets were just too fat. They measured in at something like .316-7. The patch blasted off in a confetti like effect- I couldn't find a piece larger than a pin head- suggesting to me (in my newbie ignorance perhaps) that they were being cut too hard by the rifling.

Recoil was also quite stiff, and while in a normal case neither of these would be max loads, both showed slightly flattened primers. Not excessive, but what I'd think of when I think, 'that's about at its max.' It also caused incipent head seperation of several cases- but that's nothing new, this enfield has generous chamber dimensions and it was about 5X fired brass anyhow. I've seen it before even with mild loads.

I think the pressure issues may also be a function of a bullet that's a bit oversized and being swaged down excessively.

Of course, it could be the gun just didn't like that bullet. But it does quite well with the Lyman 314299 so the weight and length should be fine, a different nose shape shouldn't mess with it that much.

I'll try the same thing but sized to .314 and see what we can see. I should be able to properly size the case and flare it with that diameter, and seat the bullets with dies too.

docone31
10-27-2009, 10:04 AM
You are firing through a rifle that has has rounds fired through it. That will be an issue untill the patched loads clean the rifleing.
Sizing the patched round to .314, I believe will solve 99% of the issues. Rather than LLA, I use Auto Wax, or JPW. Just a little.

jonk
10-27-2009, 10:38 AM
Yeah, it has had rounds fired through it, but has a nice shiney bore and I got all the lead and copper out that I could before switching over. While I have no doubt the paper will scrub some more out, it shouldn't take TOO long either.

I used LLA as it is what I had on hand. I may just try some plain paper next time, maybe with a little flour in the water to help it grip.

docone31
10-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Plain paper.
All that extra stuff, glues, flour, etc, none of them work as well as plain paper.
I got one of those plastic cigarette rollers. I cut my patch, soak it, lay the tip on the apron, set the boolitt, close it, roll it, set it aside and do another.
I got really nice tight patches. The excess water was squeegeed off.
A quick twist of the tail, and next day they were ready to load.
I do size mine to .314. I have a SMLE. I tried wrapping and loading, No good. Once I sized to .314, MOA accuracy.

docone31
10-27-2009, 12:00 PM
You know what was the most stellar performing load in my SMLE?
I used the Lee C185/312 casting for .303 British. All the measurements went on track. I sized this casting to .308, then two wraps of notebook paper, or computer printer paper, what ever I got to first.
Soaked the patches, and soaking wet rolled them on. A twist of the tail and I set them to dry on a 9mm bullet tray, tails up.
I then trimmed the tails, and sized to .314. I used just a touch of either Auto Wax, or JPW, whichever I got to first. Just a dab, nothing big on the wax.
Made nice shiney wraps that fired real well. Better than jacketeds. I used minimum start load data, and went to town.

303Guy
10-28-2009, 03:52 AM
I think the pressure issues may also be a function of a bullet that's a bit oversized and being swaged down excessively.My understanding is that this does not cause high pressure issues and I have not found a relationship between oversize boolits/bullets and pressure.

If I may suggest, follow docone31's recipe and see what happens. (I am very interested in the outcome and would sincerely like to see you achieve success!)