Is Cast good in Glocks?

[awaveritt]

My son-in-law has a Glock in 45 GAP. I've offered to start casting for his pistol but have read sources suggesting that the rifling in Glock barrels does not lend itself to good accuracy in cast boolits. What say you Glock shooters?

The silver lining would be that I'm attracted to the idea of investing in 45 auto dies (which means I'd need a gun to shoot it in, right?) so loading for his GAP would be a good excuse to buy the dies. Plus, seeing what he has to pay for GAP J-word rounds, I could really help him out, but don't want to lead up his barrel if it's not feasible.

[KYCaster]

Check out the sticky in the handgun section...everything you need to know about cast in Glocks.

Jerry

[awaveritt]

Thanks, Jerry. I figured there was a sticky somewhere on here, but I missed it.

[carpetman]

I've heard if you shoot cast in a Glock you need to get some kind of after market barrel???? Would seem to me, Glocks being plastic you could easily convert it to a water pistol and it'd be ok---cheaper than cast bullets even. Dep Al might have some input he is a big time Glock man. (That and .25 ACP's)

[Deano]

I have fired 10s of thousands of cast bullets through factory Glock barrels and have never had a bit of trouble. Those hard, smooth factory barrels lead less and give overall better performance than aftermarket barrels too.

[gwilliams2]

I had shot about a 100 rnds of cast boolits through my model 27 without any noticable leading and then I heard that you shouldn't put pb down the stock barrel... Did a little research on line and figured better safe than sorry.. Picked up an aftermarket Lone Wolf barrel but haven't had the chance to send any boolits down range with the new barrel as of yet... I can't remember the specs off the top of my head, but the Lone Wolf barrel has a lower twist rate.

[Spector]

About 13,000 cast bullets through my Glock 21/30. No problems. Lee 200 grain SWC, 230 grain TC, 252 grain SWC and 255 grain RF bellets. Mine loved the 200 grainers. I shoot the 230's now over 5.7 grains of WIN231 powder in WCC cases primed with CCI primers. They even shoot paper patched bullets well. I use water quenched WW alloy.

The 45 ACP operates at much lower pressures than 9mm or 40 S&W though I've seen friends shoot both successfully from their Glocks.

Some say that Glock says not to shoot cast bullets, but what they actually say is not to use reloaded ammunition of any type in Glock pistols. That would include jacketed bullets.

I've always thought the aftermarket Glock barrels are a waste of money, and generally more difficult to clean then polygonal rifled barrels............Mike

[sleeper1428]

I've put thousands of rounds of lead boolits through the stock barrels of both my Glock 22 40S&W and my Glock 20 10mm with virtually no trace of leading and very acceptable accuracy in both handguns. Having said this, I will admit that I've also purchased Lone Wolf barrels for both of these handguns but so far I haven't seen much difference in accuracy. The LW barrels are certainly cut more tightly - closer to specs - and they have better support in the ramp area which greatly reduces the chance of creating Glock 'smilies' at the base of the cases in that area. So I guess I'd have to say that it's really up to you as to whether you stay with your stock barrel or install an after market barrel. If you keep your loads within normal limits I don't think you'll have any problems using the stock barrel for lead.

I would caution you that both my Glocks are well over 15 years old and its always possible that their quality control and materials used may not be up to the same standards at the present time. If your Glock is fairly new, I'd suggest you check with others who have pistols of the same vintage and see if they are having any problems.

sleeper1428

[sisiphunter]

I remember in my Glock Armourers course, the instructor saying explicitly no cast or lead bullets were to be used in a Glock factory barrel...He said you must use jacketed bullets....the only problem is for the life of me I cannot remember why.....Darn memory is starting to slip....I'll look it up in my manual and notes tomorrow at work and get back with their reasoning, never tried it myself, but then again I get all the FMJ I want from work.

Matt

[bkbville]

I remember in my Glock Armourers course, the instructor saying explicitly no cast or lead bullets were to be used in a Glock factory barrel...He said you must use jacketed bullets....the only problem is for the life of me I cannot remember why.....Darn memory is starting to slip....I'll look it up in my manual and notes tomorrow at work and get back with their reasoning, never tried it myself, but then again I get all the FMJ I want from work.

Matt

Polygonal rifling is prone to leading.

[StarMetal]

Polygonal rifling is prone to leading.

That's an untruth. Many have shot polygonal rifling with very good results including myself out of more then three guns.

What do you base your facts on?

Joe

[rbuck351]

The 45s don't seem to have a problem with cast. I have a 21 that has had thousands of cast through it. A dry patch pushed through and it is shiney clean. Many people have trouble with cast in the 40s and 9mms. I suspect higher pressures are part of the problem but boolit fit, hardness and lube may be the reason. I doubt if you will have a problem with a glock in 45cal.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Do NOT pay any attention to what Glock tells you. They're only in it for the money.

Rich

[finishman2000]

I have fired 10s of thousands of cast bullets through factory Glock barrels and have never had a bit of trouble. Those hard, smooth factory barrels lead less and give overall better performance than aftermarket barrels too.

Funny, i've had the direct opposite results. All my 9mm glocks lead up with even a med load.
My Lone Wolf barrels don't lead at all and are more accurate than stock.
My 45 glock does shoot lead without issues.

[jack19512]

I shoot my cast straight ww with my G26 9 mm with no issues. I have never had any leading but I don't shoot a lot of rounds at one time without cleaning afterward.

[No_1]

I like your thinking on getting the dies. Just a word of warning in case you did not know. The GAP brass has a small primer. I have read 45ACP brass can be trimmed to fit but it is not recommended for use in the GAP. Could be the same BS as not shooting lead in Glocks but who knows for sure. I have a few handfuls of range pick-ups sent to me by RickyP and would like to try some HG68's in it but have yet to get around to it. Starline offers new brass for the GAP but I can't justify buying any right now.

As a quailifier, I have a 45 GAP that I took in on a trade about 3 years ago. Can't remember the model number because I have only handled it maybe 3 times (never shot it). Owner bought it when he was doing clean-up in New Orleans where he bought 1 box of ammo with it then shot all but 10 rounds to get a feel for the gun. It is in excellent shape with the original box, 3 mags, a fancy holster and 2 clip mag pouch. I am thinking of taking it to the November swap meet / Chili cook-off at the local range and offering it for sale along with a few other items to finance yet another project: The purchase of a casting machine. :groner:

Be careful and good luck!

Robert


My son-in-law has a Glock in 45 GAP. I've offered to start casting for his pistol but have read sources suggesting that the rifling in Glock barrels does not lend itself to good accuracy in cast boolits. What say you Glock shooters?

The silver lining would be that I'm attracted to the idea of investing in 45 auto dies (which means I'd need a gun to shoot it in, right?) so loading for his GAP would be a good excuse to buy the dies. Plus, seeing what he has to pay for GAP J-word rounds, I could really help him out, but don't want to lead up his barrel if it's not feasible.

[randyrat]

Here is some good info for your reading to help you in your decision.
http://www.glockfaq.com/
There is a section in there on lead bullets.

My opinion... I like Glocks..Not for the beginer.. index your finger always.. like all pistls/autos keep your eye open for leading.

[softpoint]

I haven't shot as much cast from myGlock as some here have, but have had no problems. There probably have been some problems, though. One issue is the fact that some of the poorly lubed commercial cast bullets will lead in ANYTHING, Glock or not. Another issue is cleaning. There are LOTS of Glocks around, and there are some folks that have them that virtually never clean thier guns.
As far as Glock's recommendations on reloads, as far as I know no manufacturor recommends reloaded ammunition.
The better reason to buy an aftermarket barrel is to get a tighter chamber. Glocks have a very good reputation for reliability, and part of that is due to the sloppy tolerances in thier chambers. Ihave an aftermarket barrel in my 10mm model 20 just to extend case life a bit, as 10mm brass is a little harder to come by than other calibers (you don't find a lot of it "once fired" around.
There IS an issue with shooting reloads that the brass has been fired previously in a very "loose" Glock chamber. If your brass forms a very noticable "pot belly" close to the case head after firing, I wouldn't re- use that brass. That issue has nothing to do with lead bullets, though:-)

[KYCaster]

I like your thinking on getting the dies. Just a word of warning in case you did not know. The GAP brass has a small primer. I have read 45ACP brass can be trimmed to fit but it is not recommended for use in the GAP. Could be the same BS as not shooting lead in Glocks but who knows for sure.
Robert


The reason the trimmed 45ACP brass doesn't work well has nothing to do with the primer. When you trim .10 off the case mouth then seat the boolit it gets down into the thicker part of the wall and creates a bulge that interferes with chambering.

The polygon barrels generally need larger diameter boolits to perform well. Thats why the after market barrels often do better, especially with commercial boolits that are sized for land and groove barrels.

The cause of the famous Glock "kaboom" has less to do with lead build up in the barrel than it does with crud in the chamber. Anything that interferes with chambering can cause an out of battery condition. Some Glocks will fire while substantially out of battery. That combined with the "generous" feed ramp is the real culprit.

And use of jackeded factory ammo is no guarantee. A friend who spent several years training Louisville police has witnessed several Glock failures. A couple of years ago he said they had one that failed on the first magazine shot through it.

Attention to detail in reloading and cleaning will go a long way toward keeping your Glock or any other gun opperating trouble free.

Jerry

[StarMetal]

Jerry is dead on about trimming and using 45acp brass for the Gap. Sometimes you should heed what said or at least investigate it before coming to a conclusion.

I'm not sure on the polygonal rifling requiring a larger bullet.

Joe

[jonk]

I mistrust anyone who says you can't shoot lead out of a polyagonal barrel.

Seems to me a lot of dead soldiers in the Civil war were shot by Confederate snipers with Whitworth snipers with polyagonal barrels.

[arcticbreeze]

I have fired 10s of thousands of cast bullets through factory Glock barrels and have never had a bit of trouble. Those hard, smooth factory barrels lead less and give overall better performance than aftermarket barrels too.

I have to disagree with this statement. I have put thousands of boolits through my stock Glock barrel chambered in the dreaded kaboom prone 40 cal and if the barrel is kept clean and lead free there is no problem however I now have a Lone Wolf barrel and there is no comparison. It has a tighter chamber, smoother bore and is much more accurate. In fact my brass shot in the LW barrel lasts twice the number of loadings with its added support compared to the sloppy stock Glock barrel chamber. Once fired brass from a stock Glock barrel will not reliably chamber in my other two 40 cal barrels even after being FL resized. For me I shoot cast only out of the after market barrel not because I am worried about the dreaded kaboom but because it has eliminated having to keep my glock shot brass seperate from the brass for my other guns.

Just my humble opinion but the opinion is based on experience and not what I have heard on the internet.

Marc

[arcticbreeze]

There is something else I wanted to add. I do use the factory barrel when the gun is loaded for defensive purposes. The great thing about a Glock is reliability and I believe part of that is the generous chamber. The Glock does what it was made for very well.

[StarMetal]

I have to disagree with this statement. I have put thousands of boolits through my stock Glock barrel chambered in the dreaded kaboom prone 40 cal and if the barrel is kept clean and lead free there is no problem however I now have a Lone Wolf barrel and there is no comparison. It has a tighter chamber, smoother bore and is much more accurate. In fact my brass shot in the LW barrel lasts twice the number of loadings with its added support compared to the sloppy stock Glock barrel chamber. Once fired brass from a stock Glock barrel will not reliably chamber in my other two 40 cal barrels even after being FL resized. For me I shoot cast only out of the after market barrel not because I am worried about the dreaded kaboom but because it has eliminated having to keep my glock shot brass seperate from the brass for my other guns.

Just my humble opinion but the opinion is based on experience and not what I have heard on the internet.

Marc

The 40 S&W is the main Achilles Hell for the Glock. They are the caliber that use to have the fattest chambers. Glock may have remedied that now, I don't know.

I have a Glock 45 acp Model 21 early model and have shot cast a lot of it. No problems. The doggone thing is more accurate then it should be for a factory basically combat/police pistol. It shoots cast more then very well. Doesn't swell the brass any more then the other dozen 45 acp of various makes do.

Joe

[StarMetal]

I mistrust anyone who says you can't shoot lead out of a polyagonal barrel.

Seems to me a lot of dead soldiers in the Civil war were shot by Confederate snipers with Whitworth snipers with polyagonal barrels.

I believe Whitworth rifling was classified as hexagonal rifling. Contrary to popular belief polygonal and hexagonal are slightly different. I had a picture of two bullets pressed through both types of rifling, but have misplaced them. You could see the difference between Glocks rifling and HK's.

Never the less Whitworth rifles were accurate.

[44mag1]

I have a glock 20 that leads really bad with the factory barrel, I have a kkm barrel now and I have no problems with leading and the brass last longer.

[mpmarty]

I had one of the first Glock 21s to come out and it shot cast without any problems at all. The polygon rifling was easier to clean than standard lands and grooves. That said, I never really "liked" the glocks and after having the 21, a 23 and a 30 dumped all of them and don't miss them. I find the XD a better Glock and other than 45acps on 1911 platforms and my XD45 all my pistols are now in 10mm on all steel Tanfoglio Witness systems.

[Dogchaser]

I think I have only shot about 100 J-type bullets total out of my 5 Glocks and 10s of thousands of lead boolits from their stock barrels.

Red Dot powder seems to give the least leading for some reason and really fills the case well.

[StarMetal]

I had one of the first Glock 21s to come out and it shot cast without any problems at all. The polygon rifling was easier to clean than standard lands and grooves. That said, I never really "liked" the glocks and after having the 21, a 23 and a 30 dumped all of them and don't miss them. I find the XD a better Glock and other than 45acps on 1911 platforms and my XD45 all my pistols are now in 10mm on all steel Tanfoglio Witness systems.

You're entitled to your opinions and preferences. I think the Glock is a dynamite pistol. I like it's simplicity. One thing I don't like, and doesn't bother me as I have large hands, is that they are huge pistols in the standard models. Talking the 45's and 10mm's. I looked at the XDM's but a few things I didn't like. For one I don't like a pistol that has too many safeties. I don't want a grip safety on my pistol and I know that the 1911's are notoroius for that, although I love the 1911. It didn't take Luger long to drop that ridiculous feature. I also heard some bad about the XD's having cast feeding problems. I build match tuned 1911's and was alittle upset when I first bought my Glock 21. I took it out with my cast load and the darn thing shot dang near as well as some of my tuned 1911's accuracy wise and I only paid $435 for the darn thing. I was impressed actually. Glock must have something right, they are very popular and many militaries and police depts use them. I'll never sell mine.

If I try another 45 acp it with be the CZ model. I heard nothing but good about them. Again, they are a large full size pistol.

Joe

[Oldtimer]

I've shot several thousand rounds from a Glock 30 .45. All the .45 barrels have octagonal rifling, whereas all the other Glock barrels have hexagonal rifling. Only reason I can think of why, is the larger diameter of the round. I have never had a leading problem with mine. I'm shooting a 225 gr round nose Lyman with straight WW. I always clean after every outing. I use a copper pot scrubber pad, that has been unrolled. Trim a piece off and wrap it around a brass brush, and use it dry. Follow up with a patch or two and some Ed's Red, and the barrel is squeeky clean. Got this idea about the copper pad from Bill Wilson in one of his books. Really gets the crud out of a barrel.

Also have a 19 9mm, and a 23 .40. Have been thinking about a Storm Lake barrel for the .40, not so much for the rifling, but for the case support. You guys are right on about the case swelling on the .40
I have fired several hundred jacketed rounds from it using once fired cases, and was scared to death the whole time, even though they were reduced loads. Never had a misfeed though. Bob

[9.3X62AL]

I've heard if you shoot cast in a Glock you need to get some kind of after market barrel???? Would seem to me, Glocks being plastic you could easily convert it to a water pistol and it'd be ok---cheaper than cast bullets even. Dep Al might have some input he is a big time Glock man. (That and .25 ACP's)

As if being a Cowboys fan wasn't annoying enough.......thanks for the kind words, Uncle Ray. I think.

I found the Glock 21 to be VERY lead-friendly. The sticky should have some of my R&D notes on sizing, chamber specs, etc. Lemme know if it's missing, I'll fill in the blanks.

I think some of the negative traits about cast boolits that Glock pistols get saddled with are a lot more about the CALIBERS being less lead-friendly than the pistols or their wide chambers or their bore form. The 45 ACP is a very lead-friendly caliber, period--reasonable twist rates (often 1-16"), relatively low operating pressures, and chamber specs in the Glock and several other 45 ACPs of known accuracy were identical.

9mm and 40 S&W, on the other hand, are not especially lead-friendly.......and can be downright hostile in some cases. Both operate at near-Magnum-revolver pressure levels (30K-35K PSI). Both often have wide chamber specs, which in a service-grade pistol is an adaptation to enhance feeding reliability--not a bad thing in itself, but can be counter-productive to brass life longevity and safety. The 40 S&W in earlier Glocks had a LOT of unsupported case head and sidewall area, which exacerbated this problem. Later-series Glocks have improved this feature to some degree. Finally, many pistols chambered in 9mm and 40 S&W have insanely-fast twist rates, on the order of 1-10" or 4 turns/meter. What purpose this serves.......don't ask me. Mostly, it complicates an already iffy lead boolit proposition into the realm of FORGET IT.

My thoughts--if my Glock was in 40 S&W or 357 SIG caliber, the factory barrel would get very little firing, and only with factory ammo that would NOT have its brass reloaded. The aftermarket barrel would get most of the range time, and I would adapt reloads to duplicate my carry ammo's ballistics.

If my Glock was a 9mm, an aftermarket barrel might make life easier and extend brass life longevity a bit, but they don't do the ka-BOOM bit like the 40s have done.

I didn't and don't see a need for the Glock 45 ACPs to require an aftermarket barrel. I have zero time with the 45 GAP, and so cannot comment with experience-based info. It does run at higher pressures than the 45 ACP, but to relate some experience I DO have in 40 S&W and the CZ-75B........the CZ has a fairly tight chamber, 1-16" twist, and runs lead boolits VERY DAMN WELL. It has a lot of the characteristics of the 45 GAP, in other words. The 45 GAP might be a good bet to try with castings.

[StarMetal]

Al,

I might add that I'm not an advocate of the new sizing dies that have shown up for the 40 S&W particularly. I feel once the web has been over expanded, such as it's pointed out that Glocks do, I feel it's been worked and I don't trust it anymore.

Joe

[StarMetal]

I've shot several thousand rounds from a Glock 30 .45. All the .45 barrels have octagonal rifling, whereas all the other Glock barrels have hexagonal rifling. Only reason I can think of why, is the larger diameter of the round. I have never had a leading problem with mine. I'm shooting a 225 gr round nose Lyman with straight WW. I always clean after every outing. I use a copper pot scrubber pad, that has been unrolled. Trim a piece off and wrap it around a brass brush, and use it dry. Follow up with a patch or two and some Ed's Red, and the barrel is squeeky clean. Got this idea about the copper pad from Bill Wilson in one of his books. Really gets the crud out of a barrel.

Also have a 19 9mm, and a 23 .40. Have been thinking about a Storm Lake barrel for the .40, not so much for the rifling, but for the case support. You guys are right on about the case swelling on the .40
I have fired several hundred jacketed rounds from it using once fired cases, and was scared to death the whole time, even though they were reduced loads. Never had a misfeed though. Bob

Glock rifling, while mostly polygonal, is different that Kahr, HK, Steyr, IMI and Stahl polygonal bores. Glock has no lands, but it does have corners, rather than the smooth transitions between polygon sides in other designs. It looks more aggressive, and likely is.

Joe

[Deano]

Funny, i've had the direct opposite results. All my 9mm glocks lead up with even a med load.
My Lone Wolf barrels don't lead at all and are more accurate than stock.
My 45 glock does shoot lead without issues.

Weird. My normal 9mm load is the Lee 125 RN over 4 gr Green Dot. This clocks right at 1080fps so it's not screaming but I never see leading.

[finishman2000]

my two Kahr's lead as much as my Glocks in 9mm

[RollerCam]

"Glock has no lands, but it does have corners, rather than the smooth transitions between polygon sides in other designs. It looks more aggressive, and likely is."



My early model G21 is NOT happy with lead projectiles. It only took about 30 rounds before mine was WAY too leaded for me. Tried the same loads in my Colt 1911 and not a hint of leading.

I, for one, certainly won't be shooting any more lead rounds in my G21 unless it's through a Lone Wolf barrel. Since they're only about $100, why chance it?

[fredj338]

I have to disagree with this statement. I have put thousands of boolits through my stock Glock barrel chambered in the dreaded kaboom prone 40 cal and if the barrel is kept clean and lead free there is no problem however I now have a Lone Wolf barrel and there is no comparison. It has a tighter chamber, smoother bore and is much more accurate. In fact my brass shot in the LW barrel lasts twice the number of loadings with its added support compared to the sloppy stock Glock barrel chamber. Once fired brass from a stock Glock barrel will not reliably chamber in my other two 40 cal barrels even after being FL resized. For me I shoot cast only out of the after market barrel not because I am worried about the dreaded kaboom but because it has eliminated having to keep my glock shot brass seperate from the brass for my other guns.

Just my humble opinion but the opinion is based on experience and not what I have heard on the internet.

Marc
I did the same w/ an early G17, several 1000 lead bullets before reading about KBs & lead bullets. You do have to clean more often, but I went to a LW bbl. It is more accurate w/ lead & jacketed bullets but a bit tight so for a SHTF piece, I would drop the stock bbl. nack in.

[moses]

I recently got a new G17 (9mm) and it shoots my 125 gr lee mold lead bullets into a ragged hole at 15 yds and no leading.
I am using water dropped range lead and WW lead also water dropped.

My Sig 228 has a very small amount of leading with this same bullet.