B-17 Photo

[Mike Venturino]

Somebody asked about it the other day so while practicing downloading and posting photos I'll put this one up. I got to ride in it a couple of years ago, and that was a life's dream come true for me.

MLV

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/B-17077LargeWebview.jpg

[Dframe]

Same bird that was here a couple of years ago. Wish I could have afforded to take the flight.
Sigh! My uncle was a pilot during WW-II.

[Mike Venturino]

Yeah, it was a bit expensive but I put on a credit card, and figured if I didn't get back alive somebody else could worry about it.

[45nut]

You are certainly getting good at posting photo's,, gets easy with practice eh?
Glad you are finding the forum worthy of sharing ,, thats the spirit that this place thrives on.

[Mike Venturino]

Yeah this photo posting gets to be fun! Here's another one. Anybody care to guess what it is of?

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/IwoJima08075LargeWebview.jpg

[462]

The B-17 "Sentimental Journey" is run as a non-profit enterprise and rides in it are tax-deductible.

If the tails in the background belong to a B-24, it and that B-17 were at our airport two-years-ago, too. Took some pictures, downloaded them to the computer and sent them to friends. The computer crashed before I got around to backing them up.

A few weeks ago, while doing some casting in the garage, I heard an awfully neat noise, approaching the area. Walked out to the driveway just in time to see a B-26 fly directly over head, not too much over the tree-tops and close to full-tilt boogie. As it banked South toward the airport, I thought it was going too fast for a landing approach. Sure enough, it wasn't long until it passed overhead, again. This time it kept heading East to parts unknown.

I'm waiting to be buzzed by a P-51 and a Spitfire.

[462]

I'll bite: Iwo Jima.

Used to own some land in Montana, and the closest ocean is a few miles away.

[Patrick L]

In recent years a B17 from the Commemorative Air Force visits the Albany Airport, right near where I live, about every other year. The plane is named "Sentimental Journey." Twice I have had the privelege of seeing it either arrive or depart.

One of those times I was helping my brother do a roofing job on a house right on the flight line about two miles from the airport. Since we grew up in that area, we are used to hearing jets come in and go out almost continuously, so we don't even give the planes a second thought. I was looking down and suddenly it hit me that the sound I was hearing just wasn't right. I looked up and there she was, coming in for a landing. I'd say she was only about 300-400 feet up and we were standing on a roof; it was awesome!

The second time I was at the range on a Monday morning, and the B17 had been at the airport that weekend. I saw her depart. The range is a few more miles away, so I couldn't guess what the altitude was, but it was still low enough to clearly see her in all her glory.

I even toured the plane (on the ground) with my son a few years ago. I'm embarassed to say that when walking through the bomb bay, I got stuck in between that "V" shaped strut you have to step through to get from the waist gunner's area to the front of the plane. I tore off a belt loop prying myself loose. My son still gets a laugh out of that!

[Patrick L]

462,

You posted while I was typing about "Sentimental Journey."

[Mike Venturino]

Yep, 462, you won the prize. That photo was taken from our 737 as we circled the island. It is looking to the southeast.

That big spur of land in the foreground wasn't there in 1945. The island has risen about 30 feet and that is the result. The bump in the far end of the island in the background is Suribachi. You can see what we got for weather that day!

Well, I'll quit messing around with photos for the night.

MLV

[44minimum]

How loud is it inside of there when it is cruising around? Are you able to talk to each other?

[pmeisel]

Beautiful aircraft. Must have been tricky flying a taildragger that big.

[Mike Venturino]

.44 Minimum: Its pretty loud but you can make yourself heard if you shout. As happened just after our FIRST takeoff when one of the other passengers turned to me and shouted IS IT NORMAL FOR ONE OF THE PROPELLERS TO NOT BE TURNING?

We had busted an oil line and the far right motor was smoking so they feathered the prop and landed. After it was fixed we got to go again. So for the price of one flight we actually got two take-offs and landings.

By the way, this B17 isn't the Sentimental Journey of the CAF. It is Nine 'o Nines belonging to the Collins Foundation.

MLV

[XBT]

This one landed at the Ogden, Utah airport a few years ago. My friend and I were out in his Cessna and were in the pattern to land when the B-17 set down below us.

If I remember right it belonged to the Confederate Air Force and they were also selling rides in it. I can’t remember the charge per ride, but it was pricey.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/retiredBT/B-17.jpg

[XBT]

Another thought on the B-17. I walked up and looked in the ball turret and I can’t believe they got anyone to ride in that thing.

[beemer]

Does anyone know how many B-17's are still flying ? There was one that came to the Hickory Airport several years ago, I think it was the Aluminum Overcast. I couldn't afford a ride but I did get the onboard tour.

When it took off the ground shook, could you imagine what a 100 B-17's sounded like.

beemer

[Springfield]

A friend of mine took a ride in one last year when it was here in San Jose, Ca. It cost him 500 bucks. Said it was worth every penny. I have always been partial to B-25's as that is what my father would have been flying "if the damn war hadn't ended on him". He worked like crazy to get extra credit so he could graduate High School early so he could sign up, which he did, but by then flight training was backed up and taking forever, thus the quote.

[Dframe]

Every time any of them come here I'm going aboard. I've crawled all over the "Nine o Nines" and the "Aluminum Overcast. Even got to talk at length to an old tailgunner. Gave me even more respect for what those guys went through during the war. Some day I hope to be able to take the flight. Seems they never show up when I have any money.

[softpoint]

I had an uncle, deceased a couple of years ago, that was a ball turret gunner in WWII.

[Geraldo]

24 Jul 1945: Both aircraft of a two-plane element,
piloted by Lieutenants J. E. Ramsey and G. E. Miller,
were lost during operations along the west coast of
Korea. Searches for survivors were unsuccessful.

Both were PB4Ys from VPB-124, which used the primitive BAT missile. My great uncle was a crewman on one of these two, initially reported MIA they were eventually listed as KIA. His brother (another great-uncle) flew on B-24s in the 5th AF and returned home.

I flew in a privately owned and restored B-25 almost twenty years ago and it was well worth the $50. I recall wondering how my family members could climb into those every day and get shot at. If you get a chance to fly in one, spend the money as you don't know how many opportunities you'll get.

[MT Gianni]

Nice pics Mike. Thanks for sharing.

[leadman]

I worked with a fella many years ago that was part of the crew on an ols bomber that I think belonged to the Confederate Air force. He offered to take me on a tour and I foolishly passed it up. Was too young and busy.
Age makes some appreciate what others had to endure in life.

[Frank46]

Out on Long Island NY there was/is a WWII themed restaurant of route 110. we used to eat out there every so often. One day they had a bunch of WWII aircraft at the airport next door. While we were waiting to be seated and me being the nosy one went outside just as the B-17 flew over head at about 150 feet. Beautiful sight that I won't forget. Frank

[AZ-Stew]

Nice planes.

I live a couple miles down the road from Falcon Field, Mesa, AZ, where the local headquarters of the CAF is located. That's the home of the Sentimental Journey, shown here. During the colder months, I frequently hear it flying over the house taking people on flights. From what I understand, they're about $500/pop. We also have two B-25s and until a couple of years ago, we also had a German Heinkle. Unfortunately, it crashed in Montana, killing the two aboard and I believe, someone on the ground. But I have photos prior to the crash, also shown below. The first B-17 photo I call "Twins With Twins". Look at the girls and boys in the foreground. The B-25 in the hanger was under restoration at the time of the photo, but is now flying.

In 1995 there was an "End Of WWII" commemoration at Scottsdale Airport, near Dillon Precision, where they had many warbirds fly in. I believe there were seven Spitfires and one Hawker Hurricane, among others. What a thrill it was to watch those planes fly over in formation! I have some photos from that show, as well, but I'm pretty sure they're not digital, so I'm not even going to try to find them.

Someone please tell me how to embed the full-size photos (rather than attach thumbnails) so I can put descriptive text between them. Thanks.

Enjoy these...

Regards,

Stew

[twotrees]

Right waist gunner/Bombardier/Navaguesser .

My wife is working on transcribing his diary of the first 44 missions. It's all who, what, where, when. The few stories he told me I'll try and place where they belong in the mission profile. He flew with the 15th AF 99th Heavy bombardment Squadron.

Mike, the photo of Iwo Jima has a special note to me too. A good friend was laid to rest 18 months ago at the age of 92. He was on Iwo as a 105 gun crew. He said " The Japs hated the 105, as it was about the only thing the Marines had that could shoot back, with effect, at them".

Thanks for posting these good memories for me.

[GabbyM]

Another thought on the B-17. I walked up and looked in the ball turret and I can’t believe they got anyone to ride in that thing.

At least in the ball turret you could get out of the airplane. It dropped off and you were on your chute. It also had a remote where the pilots could drop you out. So you had to be nice to them. Tail gunner was the prime target for fighter planes.

My Father in law had a choice job in Africa during WWII. Taking care of wounded and KIA on returning flying fortresses. Tail gunners had a hard time. ME-109's had a 30mm cannon in the nose spinner. B-17 tail gunners laid on their bellies. So use your imagination. I hesitate posting the entire procedure but it involved a rake shaped to match the radius of the fuselage. Great care was taken! My Father In Law was a college educated man. The Army wanted this job done well and it was. Shocking part is the frequency in which it was performed.

My Grandfather was a Chaplin for an 8th Army Air Corps bomber group. Colored unit. Must not have been any colored chaplains as Granddad felt compelled to volunteer for the unit. I'm not sure if any of them made it home alive. Granddad got sent back to the States before D-day. The Colonel got tired of being lectured on his drinking habits. Since it was a colored unit they stuck the ground crews on a slow freight barge to cross the English channel after D-Day. It was torpedoed by a U boat with total loss of life. The replacement Chaplin was on the barge. It's an historically noted sinking. But I"ve never heard it mentioned they were black airmen. Something like seven or eight hundred souls went down. Some of the air crew may have made it? Memphis Belle was the first B-17 to make rotation from the 8th. Most people watch the movie and fail to note that it was in 1944 when the first crew lived through their tour.

We had over thirty thousand held in POW camps in Eastern Germany. Soviets marched them to Siberia and murdered them all. Which is why Patton wanted to start a war with them. Just in case some of you don't know what started the Cold War I think that may have had something to do with it. Don't you?

My Mothers cousin Jack Myers has a book published covering his time as bombardier in a B-17 flying out of Italy with the 5th. It's a bit raw in spots. A few of the stories read like a fiction novel but are true. Like placing boards for bench seats in the Bombay of B-17's then flying into East Europe to land at an improvised strip held by resistance fighters against German troops. In the middle of a skirmish they landed to recovered many crew whom had been shot down and joined with the resistance. Can't remember which country. They climbed up into the bombay to sit on the boards. Short take off grass field under fire.

Thing about the B-17 is there are a hundred thousand stories like that.

[BarryinIN]

Nice pictures, thanks for posting.

Love those old planes. Just feeling the ground rumble when they taxi past can make me giggle like a little girl. I belonged to the Confederate Air Force for a year quite a while ago. It cost something like $250 just for the processing and a year's dues back then so it would have to be crazy expensive now.

I was a mech for an airline for almost 20 years, and the highlight of that time might be the 60 seconds I worked on a B-24. It was in town for an airshow and a couple of us had wandered across the airport to look at it. They were changing out the tail skid after bumping it on takeoff (apparently an easy thing to do with the B-24) and we ended up giving a hand- briefly. We may not have done much more than hold the skid while their guy got a couple of nuts started on the bolts, but now I can point to a B-24 and say "I worked on one of those"!

[R.C. Hatter]

I have had the privilege of touring three different B-17's, the "Shady Lady", known for its former CIA involvement, which now is at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, OR. The second was the "Liberty Belle", and the third was the "Aluminum Overcast" when they came to the Lexington, KY airport in 2008 & 2009 respectively.
I couldn't spare the money to take a flight, but was very much impressed to witness several takeoffs and landings. What magnificent machines they are. I was much moved by the sight of some old WWII vets deplaning with tears in their eyes after a flight. I believe there are 14 B-17's flying today with at least two or three more being restored to airworthy.

[Mallard57]

Warbirds are cool.
I've wanted to go to the Reno Air Races for as long as I can remember, this year I got to. There were lots of neat things like Mustangs, Bearcats, Corsair, Tigercats, Avenger, Sea Furys, and everything else with wings.
The neatest thing was they had two P-40 Warhawks and a Wildcat flying in the unlimited heat I got to see, I don't know about you ,but I never ever thought I would ever get to see either one of these type aircraft fly. It was a dream come true.
Jeff

[Bret4207]

When I was with HMS-32 (IIRC) at Cherry Point in 1979-80 there was still one Corsair in the hanger. I never saw it fly but did hear run up a few times. I was told the pilots would get in fist fights to see who got to fly it. It was apparently used in Vietnam for close air support. It just disappeared one day and I never did find out where it went. We had a NARF facility there and I suppose it could have been sold to some South American drug lord who was a friend of the US, for the moment at least....

[Boz330]

In recent years a B17 from the Commemorative Air Force visits the Albany Airport, right near where I live, about every other year. The plane is named "Sentimental Journey." Twice I have had the privelege of seeing it either arrive or depart.

One of those times I was helping my brother do a roofing job on a house right on the flight line about two miles from the airport. Since we grew up in that area, we are used to hearing jets come in and go out almost continuously, so we don't even give the planes a second thought. I was looking down and suddenly it hit me that the sound I was hearing just wasn't right. I looked up and there she was, coming in for a landing. I'd say she was only about 300-400 feet up and we were standing on a roof; it was awesome!

The second time I was at the range on a Monday morning, and the B17 had been at the airport that weekend. I saw her depart. The range is a few more miles away, so I couldn't guess what the altitude was, but it was still low enough to clearly see her in all her glory.I even toured the plane (on the ground) with my son a few years ago. I'm embarassed to say that when walking through the bomb bay, I got stuck in between that "V" shaped strut you have to step through to get from the waist gunner's area to the front of the plane. I tore off a belt loop prying myself loose. My son still gets a laugh out of that!



That multiple radial engine sound is special, you don't hear it much anymore. It still sends shivers down my spine. But my real wish would be to get some flight time in a P-51D, been my favorite since I was a kid. At $2700 an hour (last time I checked) it probably ain't going to happen.
My dad's unit, D Co. 1st Bat. 147th Inf, was attached to the Marines at Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima. They were called a Cam Division, combined Army & Marines. The old man contracted Malaria at Guadalcanal and was transferred back to the States several weeks before they hit Iwo Jima because of it's severity.:shock:

Bob
I

[badgeredd]

My high school track coach was a ball turret gunner in WW II and took the team to Wright Patterson AFB Air Force Museum when we were coming back home from a major track meet. I gained even more respect for him after seeing his assigned post during the war.

As a Air Traffic Controller in the Navy during the late 60s and early 70s, I had the opportunity to fly on about every Navy and Marine aircraft that could take a passenger. Some of my fondest memories of my time in the USN were formed on those occasions. One's view of the roll of the fighting men of our country is definitely enhanced when you experience the aircraft. I even got a couple rides in Confederate Air Force aircraft when they were at the base. Cool stuff.

Edd

[theperfessor]

I live in Evansville Indiana which is where one of the plants that manufactured P-47 Thunderbolts was located. (Also where most of .45 ACP ammo was made during WWII.) I was involved in a restoration effort on one. Unfortunately it was stored in a warehouse that burned down and it turned the parts into a puddle of aluminum.

There have been several instances when a restored P-47 visited town as part of our annual Freedom Festival, along with the Thunderbirds and the Snow Birds from Canada. Also have had B-17s and P-51s and other warbirds show up, plus modern aircraft from various services.

Hearing a P-47 go by overhead will raise the hairs on your neck, those old radials really have a sound that is hard to forget.

[Three44s]

Not preaching to this choir ........ but:

The sad thing is that too many people who don't understand the true meaning of these wonderful inventions pictured here is that .............. like the old adage:

History repeats itself and those who fail to study it suffer at their own peril.

When I look at these tools of war tools ............ I see "freedom baby"!

My mother was born in Norway in '29 and suffered her teen years in then German occupied Norway.

She emmigrated here in about 1947, went back once and then became a permanent resident of the US. The rest is history.

And even though she'd tell many stories about the Germans and the occupation ....... and the thrill of seeing Allied planes flying north to bomb the Submarine base in Trondhiem Norway ....... she also fell in to the trap that todays Americans citizens ..........

........ that of hating war so much ........ that one procrastinates to the point having fight after it's too late!!!

Three 44s

[smokemjoe]

2 weeks ago I took a ride down to Mo. and drove down into Blue Eye Ark. and then down to Green Forest. Stopped at a yard sale and for $.25 I got a framed 12x12 in.picture of a old bomber, I gave it to my friend that builts planes, It was the Memphis Belle taking while reloading for mission. What a picture.
When I was in grade school out in the countrry, 1952, The neighbor was in Koren, He fly a big bomber like that, He came home flying it to tru X field in Madison Wis. The nexy door neighbor at the school house was his brothers place. He came over tree level while we were outside. At 7 years olds I can still see it, All the cattle in the path of it went through the fences.

[gasboffer]

My uncle, Pat Neff Howard, was a command pilot flying B-17.s starting in 1943. Based in England, he flew 50 missions over Germany and France. He recieved two distinguished flying crosses. When WWII ended, he was a base commander at several air bases, and attended the War College in Alabama.
He flew the first B47 out of the Boeing factory that was delivered to the Air Force, also he flew the first B52 that Boeing delivered to the AF.
He flew B-52s in SAC during the Cold-War, and was Gen. Curtis LeMay's pilot for some time.
During the Viet-Nam War, he flew B-52.s from Guam bombing N. Viet-Nam.
Later, during the same war, he was commander of the forward-air-control in Nam. They were flying C-47s. He said everytime one of them took off, he was in it. When he retired, had over thirty-two years in the Air-Corps and Air Force.
I guess you can tell, he has always been my hero. He died several years ago in Georgetown, Tex, where he had been a real-estate agent.
A few years ago, I met Joe G. Gunn in Ft. Stockton, TX. He had written a book of his Air Corps career in England piloting B-17s. He flew 45 missions, recieved three Destinguished Flying Crosses, seven Air Medals, and Fortress of Freedom medal.
He died May 6th, 2007, in Ft. Stockton, and was buried with little fan-fare.
There arn't many of that great generation left. Without them, and others like them, we might be speaking German and Japanese.

[Rocky Raab]

I went out to see "Sentimental Journey" here in Ogden a few years ago. I was taking pictures of it when a little old lady tapped me and asked, "Is that a plane from World War Two?" I said that it was, and she got a funny look on her face. After a moment she said, "Perhaps I have seen it before." I almost knew what was coming next, and I was right.

"I watched them from my back yard when I was a little girl, in France."

She had never seen one other than as a tiny dot in the sky. She teared up. Me, too.

Two most elegant ladies:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/RockyRaab/B-17001-1.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/RockyRaab/B-17016.jpg

[BarryinIN]

I live in Evansville Indiana which is where one of the plants that manufactured P-47 Thunderbolts was located.

Thanks for reminding me of that. I took several pictures of that plant a couple of years ago when we took the kids to the Evansville zoo. My wife and kids may have thought it was a bit odd to drive up and down Highway 41 taking pictures of a refrigerator plant, but I didn't care. Seeing that plant was one of two highlights of that weekend for me, the other being a tour of LST 325 by one of the volunteer vets.

I know The Perfessor knows, but for others who may not, that plant was owned by International Harvester after WWII and it was where they made M1 Garands during the Korean War.

[Frank]

Gabby says
My Grandfather was a Chaplin for an 8th Army Air Corps bomber group. Colored unit. Must not have been any colored chaplains as Granddad felt compelled to volunteer for the unit. I'm not sure if any of them made it home alive. Granddad got sent back to the States before D-day. The Colonel got tired of being lectured on his drinking habits. Since it was a colored unit they stuck the ground crews on a slow freight barge to cross the English channel after D-Day. It was torpedoed by a U boat with total loss of life. The replacement Chaplin was on the barge. It's an historically noted sinking. But I"ve never heard it mentioned they were black airmen. Something like seven or eight hundred souls went down. Some of the air crew may have made it? Memphis Belle was the first B-17 to make rotation from the 8th. Most people watch the movie and fail to note that it was in 1944 when the first crew lived through their tour.

Germans described fierce house to house, hand to hand combat against all black units in several towns. There's a lot of good Real History out there. :coffeecom

[theperfessor]

Barry -

Whirlpool is closing the Hwy 41 plant, city has preliminary plans to tear down structure to enlarge airport. I grew up two houses away from fenced off guarded area that was tank rebuild/test area. All before my time, I was born in '54. As a kid I used to play in old roofless buildings used for explosives manufacture. Roofs weren't anchored down much on buildings, and passageways between buildings were all indirect serpentine type to prevent chain explosions I guess.

The back area of what is now the 4-H center on N 41 was a test area for explosives. Lots of funny looking pockmarked structures there.

Have several different types of .45 ACP ammo marked "ECC" (Evansville Cartridge Company) including shot loads for first round use in 1911's used Pacific Theater.

As you note we are now home port for LST 325.

E'ville has long history of defense production.

[sleeper1428]

When I was in high school back in the early 1950s, I discovered that our mailman, who was my Dad's fishing partner, had been a waist gunner in a B-17 flying out of England during WWII. He was stone deaf and wore big hearing aids in each ear and he told me that he lost his hearing when his plane sustained severe flak damage and was forced to dive steeply to put out an engine fire. Virtually everyone on board had their eardrums ruptured due to the rapid change in pressure but as he said, that was a small price to pay since they did put out the fire and they were also able to limp home without any further damage. He always said that the scariest thing he ever saw were the multiple contrails of swarms of German fighters diving to intercept them on their bomb runs and he never lost the feeling that each time he went up would be his last. They sure as hell were the Greatest Generation!

sleeper1428

[sleeper1428]

I live in Evansville Indiana which is where one of the plants that manufactured P-47 Thunderbolts was located. (Also where most of .45 ACP ammo was made during WWII.) I was involved in a restoration effort on one. Unfortunately it was stored in a warehouse that burned down and it turned the parts into a puddle of aluminum.

There have been several instances when a restored P-47 visited town as part of our annual Freedom Festival, along with the Thunderbirds and the Snow Birds from Canada. Also have had B-17s and P-51s and other warbirds show up, plus modern aircraft from various services.

Hearing a P-47 go by overhead will raise the hairs on your neck, those old radials really have a sound that is hard to forget.

I recall reading a book about the P-47, written by a former Jug pilot by the name of Bob Johnson, in which he said that the Germans just never quite seemed to comprehend the fact that while many planes could outclimb the Jug, nothing in the air at that time could outrun it in a dive. With that huge radial engine and that big four blade paddle prop, if they could get above a German fighter there was just no way for the German to get away 'cause they could virtually run them down no matter what they did in the way of evasion. As I recall, Bob Johnson said something to the effect that 'the Thunderbolt just howled and headed for the earth'. Probably the last thing many German pilots ever saw or heard before they died for 'der Furher'.

sleeper1428

[dsmjon]

They sure as hell were the Greatest Generation!

sleeper1428


Quoted for the truth.

[BarryinIN]

Whirlpool is closing the Hwy 41 plant, city has preliminary plans to tear down structure to enlarge airport.


Oh no!
Actually, until a few years ago, I somehow had the idea the plant was already gone and had been for some time. Once I learned it was still there, I put plans into high gear to get down there and have a look. I felt I had been given a second chance to have a last look then.

[10-x]

16498

16499

16500

16501

Aircraft from past airshows our group was part of, best was "Shoo, Shoo Shoo Baby" at Dover AFB in 88. AC is now on display at Wright Patterson. IIRC "FI-FI is the only B-29 flying, what an AC! "Fuddy, Duddy" used to get around to many airshows, anyone know what her dispositions is now?
"All American" B-24 also is/was a favorite , beautiful AC.
Can't remember the B-25's name, was either at Langley AFB or NOB,Norfolk Azalea Festival air show back in the 90's.

[theperfessor]

Barry

I have seen pictures of them aligning P-47 guns by shooting into hillside northeast of airport, a long developed subdivision now called "Melody Hills". Bet the basement excavators found some interesting things - what a berm to mine for lead.

[theperfessor]

Sleeper-

I don't remember who said it but I do remember a pilot who flew one of the original underpowered Jugs was told "that thing can really dive" and the pilot replied something like "its a good thing 'cause it sure as h**l can't climb". Developmental models had fabric tails that ripped off in dives. Production models had all metal tails. Once strengths and limitations were recognized the tactics were modified to suit. The Jug went on to illustrious career. It was probably the ruggedest single engine fighter in WWII.

[rockrat]

Here are a few pics of recent visitors to our airport
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/Bigdog337/Mobile%20Uploads/0918091812a.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/Bigdog337/Mobile%20Uploads/0918091809a-1.jpg

[TCLouis]

One flew over the house last week or so on its way to Huntsville.

Could tell what it was before I ever went outside. The sound of a group in flight to make or return from a bomb run must have been unbelievable.

[flhroy]

Bret, I'm not sure if it's the same plane that you saw or not but there's a Corsair at the Air Museum in McMinnville, Oregon. It's painted in Marine colors and the Bio for the plane says it's on loan from the Marine Corp.
If anyone is in the Portland, OR area and has an interest in airplanes it's well worth the hour or so it takes to drive down to Mcminnville. Long story short the owner of the museum has a connection with the the federal government and he has a lot of vintage War Birds on display. Fighter Aircraft range from the Sopwith Camel to the Corsair and Hellcat. There's a P-38, P-51, An A-26, B-19, B-24, Soviet stuff from a Yak from WW II to a mig-21. There's the wreckage of a Zero just as it was found in some Pacific island jungle in the '90's. All of these planes will fly!! They have drip pans under the oil leaks.
Oh ya a lot of this stuff is UNDER the Spruce Goose.

Take Care

[geargnasher]

The man who taught me how to cast boolits flew 26 missions (as a B-17 pilot) over Germany fairly late in the war. His name is James W. Haynie, and he still works the business he has run for over 30 years, servicing windmills and water wells in the Texas hill country. He has a master's degree and taught shop at a junior college for a number of years after the war, and is easily the greatest person I've known. When I was in high school his grandson, now a 1st Lt. in the Navy and an academy grad, was my best friend and I kept thinking over and over how that great man flew bombers into combat when he was 19 years old and lived to tell about it. That was then and is still somthing I will never be able to truly understand or appreciate. He has (now) 3 children, 6 grandchildren, 7 great-grandchildren, and celebrated 65 years of marriage with his wonderful wife several years ago.

Reading these stories here brings back again that absolutely dumbfounded, misty feeling I get every time I think of all the hundreds of thousands of young men who fought with courage I can't even fathom in a war who's outcome made my birth possible.

I've read war history since I was a boy and every time I see a Vet, especially from WWII, I shake his hand like he just saved my life, because he probably did.

I was reading this thread last night (title caught my eye, the B-17 has been my favorite airplane since I was little) and, quite coincidentally, my FIL called me this morning to tell me that Aluminum Overcast is coming to Kerrville next month. He took a ride in her a couple of years ago, and is going to again. If I can get the money together I plan to join him. I think "once in a lifetime" would be an understatement.

Thanks for starting this, Mike, it's amazing what just a picture can do sometimes.

Gear

[Boz330]

I may have told this story before but the doctor that does my flight physicals was a B-17 pilot. While perusing the certificates on his wall I noticed his military flight certificate and it was signed by Bob Hoover. I asked him about it and he said look at the date on it. It was sometime in 45 and doc said that he had been flying missions in Europe for 2 years when they finally got Hoover out of the O-club long enough to issue them.
After the war he worked his way through med school by crop dusting. Up till a year or so ago he had a 450HP Steerman that he flew regularly. Really neat old guy.

Bob

[BarryinIN]

The Jug went on to illustrious career. It was probably the ruggedest single engine fighter in WWII.

I've heard that pilots used to say:
"If you wanted a picture to send home and impress your sweetheart, you posed by a P-51. But if you wanted the best chance of getting home to see her, you flew a P-47".

[Echo]

I work at the Pima Air & Space Museum (drive and narrate a tram around the outside displays) located here in Tucson (Pima COunty) AZ. The 390th Bomb Group Memorial Museum is located on our campus. It operates independently of the A&S Museum, and memorializes crew members lost to the 390th in WWII. Has a B-17G, plus dioramas &cetera. Check it out at 390th.org.

And my Uncle Johnny was a member of the 390th, and flew his 25 and made it back - and is still around. Greatest generation, for sure.

[Uncle Grinch]

I went out to see "Sentimental Journey" here in Ogden a few years ago. I was taking pictures of it when a little old lady tapped me and asked, "Is that a plane from World War Two?" I said that it was, and she got a funny look on her face. After a moment she said, "Perhaps I have seen it before." I almost knew what was coming next, and I was right.

"I watched them from my back yard when I was a little girl, in France."

She had never seen one other than as a tiny dot in the sky. She teared up. Me, too.

Two most elegant ladies:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/RockyRaab/B-17001-1.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/RockyRaab/B-17016.jpg


Wow Rocky!... That just gave me chills thinking about this lady as she looked up at this plane. How inspiring. She's probably here today because of aircraft like these.

[sleeper1428]

Sleeper-

I don't remember who said it but I do remember a pilot who flew one of the original underpowered Jugs was told "that thing can really dive" and the pilot replied something like "its a good thing 'cause it sure as h**l can't climb". Developmental models had fabric tails that ripped off in dives. Production models had all metal tails. Once strengths and limitations were recognized the tactics were modified to suit. The Jug went on to illustrious career. It was probably the ruggedest single engine fighter in WWII.

The gentleman who said that was an ace by the name of Don Blakeslee and if I'm not mistaken, his actual words were, "It ought to be able to dive. It certainly can't climb." From what I've read, the major alteration to the Jug that allowed it to realize a much improved rate of climb was the addition of the 4 blade Curtiss paddle blade propeller. This prop allowed the pilot to take full advantage of that huge radial engine and resulted in the Jug being a real threat to a climbing German fighter as well as one in a dive. And as you said, it was indeed one of, if not the, most rugged single engine fighter in the war, capable of sustaining tremendous damage and still being able to get its pilot back home.

[snowtigger]

My wife's Dad was a ball turret gunner on a B17. He was barely old enough to get his 25 missions in before the war ended. He is 89 years old. It won't be long before there are none of them left.
He won't talk much about it, even today. He and her mother are still living in their own home. She is in a wheelchair, and he takes care of her.
He did tell me about food drops they made in Holland at the end of the war. They would drop food from the bomb bay doors and watch in astonishement as people scrambled to get it while it was still falling all around them. Now, THAT'S hungry!

In the 70's, they were living in Phoenix when he decided to open a bookstore. He didn't have the money, so someone suggested he see this Dutch fellow who was in the habit of financing small businesses.
They got to talking about the old days and he mentioned the food drops. It turns out this Dutch fellow was on the ground during these drops. His only question after that was "How much do you need?"
Greatest Generation? No doubt about it.
I also had an uncle who was a tail gunner on a '17 . His plane was shot down and he got to spend 22 months as a guest of the Furher. He was liberated by the Russians after a long march across Germany.

[SGT Singer]

This is one of the reasons I've taken a real liking to this forum. In addition to the wealth of knowledge and experience, there's a whole lot of great stories to be told, and I sure do appreciate all of you for sharing yours. There's a whole lot going on here besides casting and shooting...

[missionary5155]

This one landed at the Ogden, Utah airport a few years ago. My friend and I were out in his Cessna and were in the pattern to land when the B-17 set down below us.

If I remember right it belonged to the Confederate Air Force and they were also selling rides in it. I can’t remember the charge per ride, but it was pricey.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/retiredBT/B-17.jpg
My wife & I were at the CAF Museum in 2006. This B-17 was to be somewhere else BUT upon take off lost engine #3 so had to RTB. It was there having the new engine (from a C-47) installed in the work bay. The tour guide asked if we wanted to "look it over...". I spent the next 90 minutes looking at every rivet,positon,control, and a long time in the chin turret. I was offered a ride when they did the engine check BUT had to be in the next state the next day.

[JRW]

I have a friend whose mother in law was in the second class of the Womens Air Service(?). she shuttled aircraft from Dallas to LA during the war. She has a BOATLOAD of stories to tell. she had hours in every plane the US had during those years. Even found her ranch and future husband here in Tucson area, while flying from DM after fuel stops. Did her part, as did almost everyone else!:)

[geargnasher]

This one landed at the Ogden, Utah airport a few years ago. My friend and I were out in his Cessna and were in the pattern to land when the B-17 set down below us.

If I remember right it belonged to the Confederate Air Force and they were also selling rides in it. I can’t remember the charge per ride, but it was pricey.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/retiredBT/B-17.jpg

I believe that is actually the Aluminum Overcast and is owned and operated by the EAA. I'm going to book a ride on her tomorrow for next month if any slots are open, I can't wait! :bigsmyl2:

Gear

[cwskirmisher]

Mike, thanks for the posting - I was very lucky one year ago - my wife, kids and I were on a Sunday drive, windows open, enjoying the beautiful fall foilage of the Shenandoah Valley, when I heard "the noise"... that very recognizable distinctive radial engine noise. I looked up, and there they were - a B-17, B-24, B-25 and P-51 all in formation. All I could think to say out loud was... wow, now that was real flying. I flew for the Navy for 22 years (1981-2003). My wife asked me if I had ever been able to fly "one of those". I said no - ... then she said... well, happy birthday, let's go over there (the airport where they were landing) and see if you can get a ride. I almost spun the car I turned the wheel so fast.
When I got there, all the birds were parked and open for tours. I inquired about rides, and the great gentleman standing in front of "Nine-O-Nines" told me to pick the aircraft I would like to ride in. So I did - the B-17. He told me my ride was in an hour.... so my wife insisted I "suit up" for the occasion. We rushed home (about 15 minutes) and I put on my old flight suit, boots and garrison cap, and headed back to the airport. Here's the best part - when the pilot saw me in my nomex, he asked my background and I told him - 22 years navy aircraft carriers. He immediately made me part of the "crew" for the flight, checked me out on the bomb bay, waist doors and tailgun, and put me in charge of the passengers aft of the cockpit. I was able to move about freely with the passengers, but also to go back into the tailgun (no one else could, as you had to climb over the tail wheel, which was open to the air in flight). It was a thrill of a lifetime, and yes, the boys who strapped these on to go into harm's way were indeed the GREATEST GENERATION.
16545

[Ricochet]

Now that's awesome!

[felix]

I'm surprised the "boss" didn't offer you a "surprise" ride after "dark". Now, that would have been a real birthday present. Why do I say this? My dad knew a P-38 pilot from the pacific theater who became a crop duster. On my 16th birthday he introduced me to him, and he took me up in one of his pleasure planes. It was one of those trick bi-planes, but having an extra seat with controls which was fitted for his wife who enjoyed flying as well. I flew it for about 20 miles with a few slow turns back and forth. I am still grinning ear-to-ear. ... felix

[Mike Venturino]

cwskirmisher: That's a great story. I was just watching a TV program last night about you guys landing jets on carriers. I admire guys who could do that immensely. If I ever get another chance to ride in one of those bombers I want to do the B-25. A friend did the B24, B17 and B25 all in one day and he said it is a much more bumpy ride.

Stay well.
MLV

[Ricochet]

I've always liked B-25s.

[sundog]

Great story cwskirmisher! Thanks for your service, too.

My uncle did B-24s in WWII. He got shot down twice, but returned home in one piece. He's gone now like so many of his comrades. Heros, they were.

[Ivantherussian03]

Flying in a b-17 would be a dream come true. I have had several opportunities, but the price tag always seemed to be a little decadent. But it would be great!! Every summer they tourists around in Oregon. I not sure, but their cant be too many of those war birds still flying, 1/2 dozen of each type. Very beautiful air craft!!

[Rocky Raab]

Ivan, you can always earn back the money. When these planes are no longer flyable, NO amount of cash will buy you a ride in one ever again.

[dsmjon]

Did her part, as did almost everyone else!:)

This is the thing that gets me most about that generation, compared to generationS of people today. Back in the 40's, people took rationing in stride, they did without "For our boys" fighting a war overseas.

Imagine, today, the reaction people would have if we were told rations on gasoline, metal, fabric, etc. Besides all the whining, crying, and bit-chin on the part of MANY, think of the about absolute chaos that would stem from a long-term variation in the way people's daily lives would be effected.

Just yet another characterization of "The greatest generation." When you really stop and think about it, we should all be shameful of how our (if this is the right term?) social expectations (?) have eclipsed what once was called "values" or "morals".

[closey]

Great photos and stories Gentlemen, let me add to the thread with a few pictures i took at this years Flying Legends Airshow at Duxford, Cambridge, here in the UK.

Closey

For professional pics of more of the participants, including B17 Pink Lady, look here...

http://www.pbase.com/derekslater/duxford_flying_legends_2009

...and check out the magnificent American Air Museum at Duxford ......

http://aam.iwm.org.uk/

[Frank]

Hey, if you can't shoot, then fly, what the heck. Or even better, have someone else fly it for you. Then who knows, maybe they can drop you out of the bomb doors and you can be like a cluster bomb. Forget all the Jenny Craig. Just go for the big splash. [smilie=l:

[cwskirmisher]

cwskirmisher: That's a great story. I was just watching a TV program last night about you guys landing jets on carriers. I admire guys who could do that immensely. If I ever get another chance to ride in one of those bombers I want to do the B-25. A friend did the B24, B17 and B25 all in one day and he said it is a much more bumpy ride.

Stay well.
MLV

Mike,
There were those dark nights in bad weather that I wished I had chosen another profession, believe you me!! But, if I had to do it all over again, would I? In a NY minute.
I also got to sit in the bombardier's seat - the Norden bombsight still works, but it's no longer hooked up to the autopilot - a "Sperry" gyro. It was quite nice to see the Sperry nameplate, since I now work for Sperry (now owned by Northrop Grumman)! As far as getting to manipulate the controls, I asked (of course I did), but the answer was, that following 9-11, the FAA prohibited any 'passenger' from flying an aircraft being operated under the commercial rules. Oh well, standing between the two pilots and (unofficially, no photos you can't prove it, if I show you I'll have to kill you) moving the yoke around was just as good - those were great guys sitting in the 'front office'.
When asked which aircraft I wanted my ride in, my first choice of steed was the P-51C (of course!) which had dual controls, but the pricetag for the ride was, well, gulp, let me just say it was about the same as a new Shiloh Sharps. The B-17 on the other hand was expensive, yes, but priceless for the experience and ever fading opportunity to just 'do it'. I'll never forget it. Nor, will I ever forget that first 'cat shot' kick in the **** 0-130 kts in 1.5 seconds... ;)

[felix]

Ah! The Norden bomb sight! Pat, my wife, took math courses from Yudell Luke at UMKC. He was the principal researcher behind the math for the device. It's interesting in that he was the one who said to Pat to be successful in the field of applied math: One had to have full command of the Taylor series in order to make simple the complex algorithms that define physical devices. ... felix

[WILCO]

I'll bite: Iwo Jima.

That was my guess too! Glad I kept reading before raising my hand.......

[WILCO]

Great story cwskirmisher! Thanks for your service, too.

Ditto for me!

[beagle]

Back about 1948, anyway, sometime after the war ended, a B-17 was given to the Boy Scouts in Hickory, NC. As well as I recall, it was flyable. They kept it for a year or so and then sold it off./beagle


Does anyone know how many B-17's are still flying ? There was one that came to the Hickory Airport several years ago, I think it was the Aluminum Overcast. I couldn't afford a ride but I did get the onboard tour.

When it took off the ground shook, could you imagine what a 100 B-17's sounded like.

beemer

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

"Fuddy, Duddy" used to get around to many airshows, anyone know what her dispositions is now?

Found pictures of "Fuddy Duddy" during a polish job this past April in this thread:
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32292
She's a beaut!

Fuddy Duddy was sold to a buyer named Mr. Lyons in So Cal in 2005 for around $3.5 mil. It's my understanding that it's based in John Wayne Airport (KSA).

My Dad's last hobby was flying. He started building a Rans Coyote II several years ago; took him two summers to complete it. Did a beautiful job on it.

He rented space in a hangar at the Mason-Jewett airport, south of Lansing, MI, from a father-son team, both retired USAF Cols. Ernie, the father, was a B-17 pilot. He spent D-day in a B-17 flying across the English Channel to drop bombs on Germany. He said the sight of the fleet in the Channel was the most amazing thing he'd ever seen.

Terry, the son half of the team, was a USAF test pilot. He was involved extensively with the development of the F-16.

Also at the Mason-Jewett airport is an F4U-5 Corsair, painted as a Marine VMF-312 "Checkerboards" aircraft. They don't use the supercharger, as they can't get high enough octane fuel anymore; but it's still a thing of beauty to watch in flight.

I'd attach some photos, but they are just too large.

[HollandNut]

Cousins wifes father was Captain J.W. Carter " Carter and His Little Pills" ..

Entire crew KIA 8Mar1943 returning from a raid on marshalling yards at Rouen France .. Shot down over the English Channel with England in sight ..

305BG/364BS Chelveston

Did a lot of research on this , and found the nephew of the ME109 pilot who shot them down ..

Also have been in touch with many of the crews families ..

Dad was B29 crew , never spoke about it at all , and no one was brave enuff to ask ..

[HollandNut]

I spoke on the phone a few years ago to the son of the co pilot who missed the flight because of illness .. The co pilot died in 1992 after a prolonged illness , but a few years before his passing , one of his sons took him to an airshow with the old birds there .. Said his father was bent over and could barely get about ..

He saw the Fort , eyes lit up , he straightened up and almost ran over to the bird , popped open the bay door the pilots and radio man used to enter the a/c , jumped up inside like he did fifty years before , weighing fifty pounds or more than during the war ..

Told the pilots things about the bird they didnt know and told 'em of things that they did , they the plane supposedly wasn't capable of doing ..

Thought that was pretty neat ..

[HollandNut]

some nose art

[NoDakJak]

Last summer My youngest grandson and myself visited the tiny museum at Graybull, Wyoming. One of the main attractions is a PB4YJ, the single tail variation of the B-24 that was produced for the Navy. It is amazing just how narrow that fuselage is. My grandson toured the aircraft but I was strongly encouraged to not try. These folks didn't want to have to use a canopener to extract my fat butt from the fuselage. Most existing PB4Yjs are now Borate Bombers. When I went through Jet Engine Mechanic school at NATTC Millington, Tennessee in 1957 the Navy/Marine Reserves were still flying this bird from the strip across the highway. The Graybull museum had a couple interesting C-119 Flying boxcars that came from the Canadian Air Force. Each aircraft sported a pair of J-34 Engines complete with nacelles that came from Lockheed P2V-5 or P2V 7 patrol planes. The C-119 was a real Lead Sled so I imagine this spruced up performance quite a bit. In 1973 I saw a C-119 Gunship. I can't remember whether it used one or two jet engines. I have heard quite a bit about the c-47 and C-130 Gunships but almost nothing about the C-119s. Does anyone know anything about their use and history? Neil

[pmeisel]

My dad had a little experience with the C119 and thought it was a terrible airplane. He was happy to see the C130, and loved the C47.... also the A20 and B25. Couldn't say enough about those planes.

[462]

NoDakJak,

We had Shadow and Spooky stationed at Phan Rang, RVN. Shadow, the C-119, was armed with three 7.62 mini-guns, and Spooky, the C-47, had one 20 mm M-61 cannon. There were many nights when I heard them firing at the local VC.

[scrapcan]

A few weeks ago I got to meet a few men and women who helped out in WWII ( Their words not mine). I went to a presentation on the Honor Flight to get WWII vets to see their memorial in DC.

One was a b-17 pilot, the other man was a b-24 and 25 pilot, the woman was a ferry pilot as mentioned earlier. I felt very inferior to those individuals while in the room. Each told me they were just normal people doing what was asked of them and that the other 4 of us that cam e to vist them were no different. Yes there were only 4 of us that went to see them. Pretty damn said in my book.

We have a good family friend who was also a young girl in france at the time they were flying over there. She also has the sentiments mentioned earlier.

A friend sent me a copy of a log book about a month ago that I will try to post. It is very humbleing.

[budman46]

xbt,

on armed forces day 20 some years ago at mcguire afb, n.j., i straddled the port inboard engine of the CAF b-17g you show and poured 5 gallons of oil into the crankcase; my dad was working civil service there at the time. he'd been a ww2 mechanic on 17's in the 8th air force out of molesworth, england and a crew chief on one in post-war occupation at haneda afb, japan.

my favorite bomber of all time...

budman

[Rocky Raab]

462, did you write that backwards? I never knew or heard of a C-47 Spooky with the 20mm. It used three or sometimes four 7.62 miniguns only. The 20mm may have used in the C-119 along with a couple of 7.62 minis,

The C-119 was widely used, but never excelled at anything except dropping things out the back door - for which it was designed. Even at that, the rear clamshell doors had to be removed before flight to drop stuff, and that incurred a huge drag penalty. It used the same engine as the B-29 but was still a pig. It was good at troop drops, though.

I made several flights in C-119s when it was still in use by the Reserves. It was extremely loud, vibrated like heck and acted like it never wanted to fly. Bad plane.

[462]

Rocky,

I stand corrected. I was next to Shadow only once, as it was parked at the other end of the flighline, from our birds, and I'm finding that forty-one-years is a long time to remember some things.

Speaking of dropping things out of a C-119, I hold the rather dubious honor of pushing hay bales out of one, while stationed at Luke Air Force Base, outside of Phoenix.

The Winter of '67-'68 left a lot of snow in parts of Arizona and some of the area's Indian livestock were in dire straits. The call went out in our squadron for volunteers to assist in a humanitarian air-drop, using the lure of a 3-day pass as bait to reel in the naive. Fresh out of tech. school, and wanting to be percieved as an eager airman, I raised my hand, along with good friends George and Randy.

Early on the morning of the appointed day, the three of us arrived at the designated flightline site, were briefed on the mission and our duties, boarded the hay-laden aircraft and were soon airborne.

After what seemed a fairly short flight, we reached the first of our drop-zones, and we started pulling bales off the long and high stack, sliding them toward the doors, and pushing or kicking them out. It wasn't long until the exersion had us sweating and we removed our parkas. It was still cold, but we were now able to move about more freely.

We bombed cows and horses until we ran out of hay bales, headed back to base, and were given the rest of the day off. We returned to our barracks, physically spent and still cold, and slept the day away.

A few months afterwards, I volunteered again -- this time for Viet Nam. As a weapons mechanic, I considered my chances of being stationed in Europe (where I really wanted to go) at less than zero, so I decided to go to Viet Nam on my schedule.

Never did get that 3-day pass...

[Rocky Raab]

Brother, I asked mainly because I was there, and I know that ANYTHING was possible in 'Nam - even stuff that never happened.

I planted Igloo White remote sensors along the Trail from an O-2 - and the historians say that never happened.

I airdropped culvert-sized tubes of something (wasn't ever told what) to a middle-of-nowhere spot in Cambodia - which was never done.

So mounting a given gun in a given plane as an experiment would have been small potatoes! There were even attempts to mount M-60s to side-fire from a Bird Dog! If the C-47s were Puff the Magic Dragon, that little O-1 might have been Poot the Silly Salamander...

(No, it was NOT a good idea. They didn't try it more than two flights.)

[462]

One experiment that did work was installing triple ejector racks (TERs) on the inboard stations of an F-100. My squadron, the 615th TFS, was assigned the mission.

The F-100 required a runway about half the length of Viet Nam in which to take off. Consequently, there was great concern whether adding an additional 3000 pounds of payload (six 500-pounders) would be feasible. Some aeronautical engineer probably received a special pat on the back from McNamara, because the old Lead Sled was able get airborne before it ran out of runway. Though not by much.

The down-side of the experiment was that our squadron's daily frag consisted of exactly twice the bomb load of the others, while still flying the same number of sorties within the same turn-around time.

I understand that, some time after I returned to the World, other F-100 squadrons got the TERs.

[HORNET]

Rocky, Wasn't limited to 'Nam. My Dad was a tank commander in the Fulda Gap in May of '51. His version of events was at considerable variance with the official story of their "Reconnaissance in Force".

[mauser98us]

Too bad the confederate air force buckled to political correctness and special interest and changed their name to the commerative air force This is also the reason current air force planes are not allowed nose art, Tis a shame

[76 WARLOCK]

My first five jumps were from a C-119 at Fort Benning in June 1968, it was phased out shortly after that. I really have fond memories of that aircraft.

[GabbyM]

A friend of mines father flew C-119's until his retirement. One of his jobs in WWII was to fly a B-24 down straights at night between islands in the pacific looking for Japanese transport ships. Plane had been modified with larger engines and was armed with torpedoes. I assume it would have had a radar altimeter linked to auto pilot like the Navy PBY. Said they flew fifty feet off the deck balls to the wall. When they saw a ship they only had a few seconds for a slight heading adjustment then let go the torpedo. He quoted an air speed but I can't recall. Just remember it was really moving out for a big bird. This was basically the same attack as made with a PBY just at over twice the air speed. Must have worked since he lived through it. I'm sure the airframe had a very short life expectancy working like that. Was a very gutsy bunch we let loose on the Axis.

[Rocky Raab]

Let me tell you, friend, ANY airplane that brings you home from a combat mission is a good airplane. If it brings you home with holes in it, it's a GREAT airplane.

[StarMetal]

Let me tell you, friend, ANY airplane that brings you home from a combat mission is a good airplane. If it brings you home with holes in it, it's a GREAT airplane.

A light bomber that went from the Widow Maker to one with a record of the least shot down in WWII was the B 25.

I reckon the B 17 was a great plane then since many made it back badly shot up.

For a fighter the P 47 was one rugged plane.

Joe

[Rocky Raab]

You are only one digit off. The plane you refer to was the B-26.

[StarMetal]

You are only one digit off. The plane you refer to was the B-26.

I stand corrected, you are indeed right sir. Big difference one number makes.

Thanks
Joe

[AZ-Stew]

Photos from Falcon Field, Mesa, AZ, 7 Nov., 2009. Veteran's Day celebration.

We had a few warbirds on hand. 3 Mustangs (one not pictured), a Spitfire, a B-25 (Local CAF resident) and the B-17, Sentimental Journey (another CAF resident).

I got to shake hands with and thank three of the Tuekeege Arimen at the veterans gathering. Humbling. All three were great gentlemen.

Enjoy!

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/spit1.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/spit2.jpg

I understand this is a full-size replica, not an original Spitfire. I was told it has an Allison engine, rather than a Rolls Royce.



http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/b25-1.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/b25-2.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/b25-3.jpg

Below the muzzle of the nose gun is the B-17 Sentimental Journey.



http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/b25-4.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/b25-5.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/b25-6.jpg


http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/sj takeoff.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/sj takeoff 2.jpg

Sentimental Journey taking off over Mustang.

I inquired about prices for flights. Up front: $450, in back: $425. 30 minutes air time.

Regards,

Stew

[AZ-Stew]

Here's the others:

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/mustang1.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/mustang2.jpg

Cripes A'Mighty



http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/mustang3.jpg

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/mustang4.jpg

Stang






http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/link.jpg

Link Trainer



Regards,

Stew

[Ricochet]

Last week we had a B-17 and B-24 visiting here. I think "Sentimental Journey" and "Diamond Lil." I heard them fly over the office several times when I couldn't get outside fast enough to see them. Saw the B-17 go over once. They've been here a number of times, and I've been able to climb all around them with my boy when he was quite young. The CAF's B-29 has been here, too.

[pmeisel]

On the B26 -- there were a couple issues. One had to do with properly gaging airspeed at take off IIRC. The other had to do with engaging the autopilot, I think....

My dad was briefly in operations in an outfit called Desert Test Section that evaluated crashes and other incidents to try and correct these errors. One of his COs was the pilot that figured out the B26 issues. Wish my dad was still around, he could put some more info in here.

He liked that plane, but he liked the B25 and A26 better.....

[geargnasher]

Flew the first flight of the morning this morning, due to the cold weather we were treated to a little extra cabin time during the long engine warmup and throttle-up tests.

Here are a few photos from during the flight, most of the interesting shots didn't turn out due to the gusty winds and choppy ride (plus we were crawling all over the place taking it all in from every vantage point possible on the too-short flight), spent most of the time gaping, holding on, and occasionally wiping my eyes. You can look at one of these all day, but you really don't get what it was like until you actually fly in one and look through the Norden and point the machine guns around.

BTW, someone asked earlier in this thread how many were still flying, here's a list from the Aluminum Overcast's support crew:

1. Aluminum Overcast (of course) EAA sponsored
2. Chuckie (IIRC owed by a General and based in Ft. Worth)
3. Fuddy Duddy
4. Liberty Bell
5. Memphis Belle (replica of original)
6. Miss Angela
7. Nine O'Nine
8. Pink Lady
9. Sally B.
10. Sentimental Journey (aptly named IMO)
11. Thunderbird (I wonder if it is named after the plane in the story "Thunderbird Limps Home"?)
12. Yankee Lady

Three more that aren't flying: Boeing Bee, Shady Lady, and the Texas Raiders (CAF plane).

Gear

[462]

Gear,

Too cool!

[Bigjohn]

Mike, you have done it again.

I recall some years back, virtually crawling all over an Australian produced P51, callsign VH-BOB. I had a 35mm camera at that time and I used several rolls of film. I photograph the aircraft in detail but now I cannot find the prints.

This was the years before the Late Col PAYE started collecting and restoring WW II aircraft.

The most recent rebuild completed over here is an Australian built BOOMERANG, these were a bit of a stopgap before something else was available.

Radial engined with 20mm cannons. The fellow who rebuilt it found out that it was the same aircraft that his father fought in during WWII

[Tazman1602]

Holy Carp are you THAT Mike Venturino? I've been reading your stuff for years!

I got a ride in a converted P-51 when I was a kid at an airshow in Florida, never forgot that plane and the roar of the Merlin. You had to be a pilot to fly that plane! I can't even imagine flying to war in those big birds with no radar, dead reckoning for navigation and very little protection.

Keep writing those great articles man!

Art

[Rocky Raab]

So, Taz - would 300 combat missions in a Cessna brown your shorts any? LOL!

[pmeisel]

Rocky, when I was 12 either that or choppers was what I wanted to do. Failed the eyetest at school, got glasses, and Vietnam was over by the time I was old enough anyway.

[Rocky Raab]

Sorry to hear that. Eyes got a lot of guys. I had one student who got through the initial flight school, all the physicals and eye tests, and was flying the T-37 jet - when one day we had a red warning light come on and he couldn't see it. Color blind. That was his last flight.