This ain't right...

[crgaston]

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1140195.JPG

A couple of years ago I bought a Marlin 1894 Cowboy Carbine LTD in .45 Colt. It was part of a package deal. I haven't shot it until this week since I decided it'd be perfect for hunting on my buddy's property.

What ain't right is the amount of cleaning I've had to do so far...way more than any other used rifle I've had...

I'm alternating brushing, Hoppes #9, and JB Bore Paste. It just doesn't want to come clean! Anyone have comments or suggestions?

[stubshaft]

Is it lead or copper fouling?

[rob45]

Might try a good application of Kroil. That stuff works wonders at getting under and lifting out the trash. Kroil and JB bore cleaner make a very effective combination.

[insanelupus]

If it is copper fouling, Shooter's Choice Foaming Bore Cleaner. Best I've ever found for copper fouling. I've had some rifles take a week or so of overnight soakings, but it saves me from scrubbing.

[NickSS]

The picture of your patches and the caliber seam to indicate that it is leading you have. Try kroil. Give the bore a good soaking in it and let it sit for several minuted then take a bore brush to it (bronze) and give it ten or twenty for and aft cycles then soak a patch in kroil and wipe it out. The patch should come out very cruddy. Do this as many times as necessary to get it clean. My guess is that the former owner used it for cowboy action shooting and never cleaned it.

[imashooter2]

LOL! That's why I own an Outer's Foul Out. Better living through chemistry!

[Bret4207]

I'm no expert on jacket fouling, but I promise you- use 4/0 steel wool on a brush and the lead will come right out with NO damage to the barrel.

[dragonrider]

+1 on the Outers Foul Out. Best thing I have ever used for lead or copper fouling.

[northmn]

One old trick for leading is to take a brass pad as used for cleaning pots and pans and wrap strands from it around a bore brush. I have tried it and it works, whcih does not surprise me as that trick is so old it has hair on it. Used a lot by revolver shooters. As for copper fouling use one of the chemicals for that purpose.

Northmn

[crgaston]

Thanks guys. I have used Kroil for a couple of cycles, too. Hopefully I'll get it clean before the season's over! LOL! Thanks for the steel wool reminder...I should have thought of that.

It was greasy when I started. There was green bullet lube coming out at first...like pushing the rod through vaseline, almost.

It still shoots really well with 17.5gr 2400 under a RCBS 255K. Can't wait to see what it'll do once all the gunk is out.

[jimkim]

Try shooting a few COW loads through it. Then clean it.

[mike in co]

skip the jb bore paste ......kind of a wate of time and enefgy till you know whats in the bore.....AND IF LEAD...DONT BOTHER.


mike in co

[crgaston]

Try shooting a few COW loads through it. Then clean it.


Cream of Wheat? What does that do?

Mike, the bore paste sure helps get leading out of my stainless revolver barels, but then I never get them this nasty either.

BTW, I'm positive this is lead/lube/powder fouling. There have been no real signs of copper other than from the brushes.

[littlejack]

+1 on what northmn said. This is all I use on my leaded hangun barrels. It works first time every time. Slickest way to remove lead there is, AND very quick. Takes me about 60 seconds to clear a barrel. Make sure you use ONLY brass or copper pads as northmn said. If you have to, bring a magnet to the department store with you to check and make sure that the pad is NOT copper coated steel. Find the end of the wire and unravel like a knitted item and wrap the wire around a used brass cleaning brush until it will just fit into the bore.. Very simple.
Jack

[dualsport]

Beings it's a .45 Colt maybe somebody shot blackpowder loads in it and didn't clean up afterwards. Just a thought. Might try a little hot soapy water besides the other solvents.

[Speedo66]

Another item I've seen used for stubborn bores is brass plumbing faucet filters. Little circles of brass mesh used to keep debris out of the tap water.

[Gee_Wizz01]

+1 on what northmn said. This is all I use on my leadd hangun barrels. It works first time every time. Slickest way to remove lead there is, AND very quick. Takes me about 60 seconds to clear a barrel. Make sure you use ONLY brass or copper pads as northmn said. If you have to, bring a magnet to the department store with you to check and make sure that the pad is NOT copper coated steel. Find the end of the wire and unravel like a knitted item and wrap the wire around a used brass cleaning brush until it will just fit into the bore.. Very simple.
Jack

Littlejack is correct about checking with a magnet! I bought a box of "Copper" cleaning pads at Wal-Mart and they started rusting! My wife used one and set it in a soap dish over night and it was very rusty. The copper ones do work great for leading removal. I also found some brass screen that works great also.

G

[leadman]

I use a purple soap I buy from Pep Boys called Purple Power. Just about the same as Super Clean.
Will clean powder and lead fouling out of a gun, to include shotguns very quick. Don't get it on any anodized parts as it will remove this also.
I usually put some in a small container on the floor and then pump it thru with a tight fitting patch. I have also used it on patches in the normal fashion and it works, just a little slower.

It removes all traces of oil so you will definitely need to oil right after cleaning.

I have used it for at least 5 years for cleaning badly fouled bores with no damage.

[cajun shooter]

It appears to be some BP fouling. Try a mix of Ballistol and water if you have it. I mix at 7:1. If not try some hot soapy water or Windex with vinegar. All will work. If smokeless try M-Pro 7 I have not found anything as good unless it is Sweet's 7.62

[crgaston]

Wouldn't BP fouling have caused rust if sitting for over a year?

I have some BP cleaner...that'll get a shot.

I tried some steel wool and that pulled a bunch of lead out, but Hoppes-soaked patches are still coming out dirty. I will also say that it's starting to look like there may be a fair amount of machining marks in the barrel. I'm guessing it's going to foul again quickly. Fortunately, since I don't do CAS I don't have a need to shoot gazillions of rounds through it. I think I'd be disappointed if I had bought it for that purpose.

I do have some Super Clean brand biodegradable degreaser in a purple spray bottle. I'll give that a shot as well.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If you have machining marks in the bbl , you might want to fire lap your bbl, you can find out how in the threads here.

[Lloyd Smale]

looks like you ran into a severly lead fouled barrel. Have you actually looked at the barrel to see if you can see lead build up. Ive had good luck with kroil or rust buster. cork off the end of the barrel and fill the barrel with it and let it sit about a week then brush with a chore boy on a brass brush. that will usually take care of any fouling. Ive never owned a foul out but have seen them work and they do work if you have the bucks to buy one.

[Bret4207]

Littlejack is correct about checking with a magnet! I bought a box of "Copper" cleaning pads at Wal-Mart and they started rusting! My wife used one and set it in a soap dish over night and it was very rusty. The copper ones do work great for leading removal. I also found some brass screen that works great also.

G

Boys, the STEEL wool WILL NOT harm your barrel! I got the idea from the big time Shuetzen match shooters who spend big bucks an barrels and make them last for decades. And think about this- the final POLISH on a blued barrel is often done with 4/0 STEEL WOOL. Trust me, it won't hurt your barrel.

[docone31]

I am not so sure about that.
I trashed a Ruger 10/22 Barrel with steel wool.
It was all I had at the time. I put some steel wool on a cleaning brush. I wove it around the brush, not all that tight, and proceeded to brush away.
When I was done, most of the rifling was rounded down. It went from having sharp corners to being almost not there.
Now, that was a Ruger. That might have been the reason. Also the barrel was of unknown age and condition. I got it real used.
I would go with Chore Boy, and then Fire lap with paper patch lubed with Clover.

[crgaston]

What's Clover?

[stubshaft]

What's Clover?

Valve grinding compound usually found at auto parts stores.

[StarMetal]

Most, but not all, valve grinding compounds found at auto stores is very coarse and not recommended for rifle bores.

Clover is a major, and good, brand of grinding compounds...and expensive. I had a nice can of it in 0000 grade.

Joe

[Limey]

...it'd be really interesting to compare accuracy before and after this intensive cleaning....

...any chance of that comparrison?....

Safe shooting,

Limey

[StarMetal]

...it'd be really interesting to compare accuracy before and after this intensive cleaning....

...any chance of that comparrison?....

Safe shooting,

Limey

If you're talking about the 6.5's I'll ask, but you know 6.5's are plenty accurate to start with in my opinion.

Joe

[jimkim]

Cream of Wheat? What does that do?

Mike, the bore paste sure helps get leading out of my stainless revolver barels, but then I never get them this nasty either.

BTW, I'm positive this is lead/lube/powder fouling. There have been no real signs of copper other than from the brushes.

The COW compresses into a biscuit and scrubs the bore clean as it goes down the barrel. There are several threads here and on other sites that discuss this same thing.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=23767&page=2

[SGT Singer]

In addition to the various chemical recommendations posted above, I've had great success with bore snakes. They're washable, reusable, and instead of using 743 patches, you just run the bore snake through it a couple of times. I don't even use cotton patches any more. I'm sure your local enabler has one for sized for a .45 in stock. They usually run in the neighborhood of $14 to $17.

[jhrosier]

I would try a bore size plus a couple thou soft boolit (ACWW) over a full load of Trailboss powder.
Half a dozen shots should have it cleaned up nice. Lube them boolits with something good like Lar's Carnauba Red for best results.
I have been surprised how well this combination works for getting and keeping a bore clean.

A soft, bore sized booit at low velocity is a pretty good and fast bore scrubber.

Jack

[Bret4207]

I am not so sure about that.
I trashed a Ruger 10/22 Barrel with steel wool.
It was all I had at the time. I put some steel wool on a cleaning brush. I wove it around the brush, not all that tight, and proceeded to brush away.
When I was done, most of the rifling was rounded down. It went from having sharp corners to being almost not there.
Now, that was a Ruger. That might have been the reason. Also the barrel was of unknown age and condition. I got it real used.
I would go with Chore Boy, and then Fire lap with paper patch lubed with Clover.

How many weeks did you spend at it?:veryconfu Can't see it, no way. The only thing I can think is you got some extremely hard steel wool (you did use 4/0 right?) or you had the softest barrel ever made. You can rub your skin for a good long while with 4/0 and not make much of an abrasion.

Now if you used stainless steel wool of 1/0 or 2/0 grade I could see some damage happening.

[docone31]

It might have been the barrel.
The rifling just disappeared. I never fired it, the divorce came too quickly.
I had never seen anything like it before.

[stubshaft]

I use alot of 0000 steel wool in my barrels and have not had any problems. I did however totally trash a Remington xp-100 .221 barrel using a stainless steel brush. I was using the brush on the barrel and got "glitter" out of it (was shooting cast boolits of course). Thought it was working well until I looked down the bore and found that the rifling was scrubbed away!

[markinalpine]

LOL! That's why I own an Outer's Foul Out. Better living through chemistry!


looks like you ran into a severly lead fouled barrel. Have you actually looked at the barrel to see if you can see lead build up. Ive had good luck with kroil or rust buster. cork off the end of the barrel and fill the barrel with it and let it sit about a week then brush with a chore boy on a brass brush. that will usually take care of any fouling. Ive never owned a foul out but have seen them work and they do work if you have the bucks to buy one.

I made an electric bore cleaner based loosely on this article: http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

Only cost me about a buck and a half for some rubber plugs, and a bottle of household ammonia.

Mark :coffeecom

[docone31]

The thing is, with my Ruger barrel, I did not use a lot of steel wool. I made a wooden dowel fixture, and wrapped the steel wool around it. I shoved it in the barrel. A few times back and forth and that was it.
I looked in the bore, and the rifleing was mostly worn smooth. The action did not show that much wear.
I wondered for over a decade, did Ruger ever make the barrel in aluminum? Might I have gotten one. Other wise, that steel in the barrel was softer than grade 2. I did not expect any wear.
Perhaps it was not worn, I was just looking for Ballard rifleing.
I never found out.

[largom]

Listen to Bret4207. Steel wool in 4/0 grade WILL NOT hurt your barrel!
After bluing I rub the barrels down with 0000 steel wool. After finishing a stock I rub the stock down with 4/0 to give a satin finish. NO scratches in the bluing and no scratches on the stocks. However, be sure the steel wool is 0000 grade.
Larry

[crgaston]

Well, I think it's mostly clean. The last few patches wrapped around the brush, soaked in Hoppes, and short-stroked down the barrel have come out only slightly brownish. Still doesn't look like it would shoot, but...


...it'd be really interesting to compare accuracy before and after this intensive cleaning....

...any chance of that comparrison?....

Safe shooting,

Limey


Sadly, not really, unless it gets markedly worse. I was zeroing at 25 yards, since that's the range I'd be shooting at my buddy's place. From kneeling the bullet holes were usually touching each other before any cleaning. After the first round of cleaning they were almost all touching, but I was shooting from sitting with a sling that time, and was a little more used to the buckhorn sight picture (usually I shoot aperture sights). I'll try to shoot it again tomorrow or Thursday from slung sitting again.

I really appreciate everyone's contributions...I learned a couple of new things!

Next step...the sights. The front post (3/8" dovetail in the octagonal barrel) is noticeably off to the lright and has thus far resisted my efforts to move it. I started out with Kroil, a 3/8" flat punch, and a dead blow mallet; gentle tapping at first, getting progressively more forceful. I quit when the side of the sight's dovetail started flattening out with still no movement. Fortunately, the rear was easy enough to move and the rifle is only about a half-inch off at 25 yards.

Does anyone know of a sight pusher that'll work on an octagonal barrel? It's about .71 across at the muzzle end.