Tumble lube - gunking up dies, etc.

[Sky C.]

Gentlemen-

I've been trying tumble lube lately in hopes of speeding up my loading operations - especially for pistol ammo. Not having to handle bullets individually for lubing & affixing GCs (using PB types) saves time at this step in the game BUT I'm finding that the lube accumulates in my bullet seating & crimping dies necessitating frequent cleaning - otherwise the seating depth is changing. Also - the TL on the exposed portion of the bullet continues to accumulate on the brass (reloading on a Dillon press so the finished bullets are droping into a catch bin) and in my ammo boxes making a mess there and for subsequent handling. At this point - I'm having to spend time wiping off the excess lube from the exposed portions of the bullets which adds mucho time and labor back in.

Any of you find ways to avoid this secondary effect?

Thanks-

Sky C.

[44man]

You have elected to shoot grease balls. Welcome to the club!

[grumble]

SkyC, the solution is as simple as thinning the alox and making sure it's dry before you load the boolits.

Or, you can listen to people who've never tried it but who have opinions they insist you indulge.

[cabezaverde]

I'm with Grumble - let them dry.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I'm new at using the stuff, but based on what I learned over at rbstern's place, who's been working with the stuff for the past year learning how to use it, you're better off simply appliest the tiniest bit and tumbling. Let that dry. If you feel a new for a second coat or more, repeat as many times as necessary.

He put what looked like a drop of the stuff into about 50 to 60 bullets and tumbled them in a plastic container, then set them on the wax paper. A few minutes later, they appeared to be dry, well coated and ready to load.

Not sure if this would help you, but the bullets worked ok when I shot them.

Dave

[tomf52]

SkyC. - I am a big fan of the Lee tumble lube and have tried many tecniques to work with it more effectively and with minimum mess. I have found that a lighter application of the tumble lube seems to minmize loading of the dies with lube and at the same time has no ill effect on the rounds as far as barrel leading is concerned. I just a few minutes ago came up from my basement where I was sizing Lee's 105 gr SWC down from out of the mold .358 to .356 for use in my 9MM. Contrary to majority opinion, I did find that I had to lube the bullets both before and after sizing with my lyman 450, only after for the final effect. There was no galling or leading of the sizing die and all bullets came out looking good. Not exactly in line with what you were asking, but an interesting aspect none the less. This was the first time I tried this method. Hope it helps you.

[44man]

I was sent a box of soft boolits that were throat size and were tumble lubed. They were 6 months old. I shot 2 cylinders full at around 750 fps and needed a jack hammer to remove the lead from the bore. OK, boolits too soft so I took my hunting alloy and started with 1 light coat, dried for a week. No good, tried 2 then 3 coats. No sizing on any of them. Poor accuracy and bores leaded. Worked from 1100 to 1400 fps.
Those stinking bottles will sit forever in the drawer.
Went back to Felix, 5 shots under 1" at 50 yd's, no lead. 500 rounds later without cleaning, still under 1", no leading.
I know, I am stupid and never learned to use the stuff. I lifted my left cheek to fart instead of the right cheek. OH I know, I put powder in the case! What, I have to put a new primer in too?
Stuff is still a lazy mans lube!

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I lifted my left cheek to fart instead of the right cheek. OH I know, I put powder in the case! What, I have to put a new primer in too?
Stuff is still a lazy mans lube!

Well, it's your own darned fault for farting and stinking up the lube in the first place. Heck, even I can figure out not to fart on the lube, ruins the consistency and lubricity of the stuff. You don't poot in church do you?

BTW, what the heck is wrong with doing it the lazy man's way? I've seen plenty of very smart things done to solve a problem because someone was lazy.

Grin,

Dave, who's farts don't smell (according to the little woman), they odiferate.....:-D

[versifier]

You do have to clean your seating and crimping dies, especially the seater as the excess LA can build up in the seating plug and cause your boolits to be set deeper than you intended. An old screwdriver or a dental pick followed by a large swab soaked in mineral spirits does the job. If you try to load boolits before the LA has had a chance to properly dry, it is going to make a mess. Grumble says you can speed up your drying by using a hair dryer, I haven't tried it yet, but I will the next time it gets too humid for them to dry properly (with three daughters, it shouldn't be too hard to find one :-D ). I do not use a progressive press, and I think that using LA on boolits to be loaded on one might tend to negate any time saving advantage, but lighter coats might make it workable - it's certainly worth experimenting to find out.
For hunting loads, I usually wipe off the boolit noses with a rag soaked with mineral spirits so they don't fuzz up in my pocket. For range loads, the plastic boxes I use to carry and store my ammo in prevent exposure to foreign matter, so it's not an issue for me.
It just occured to me that LA would be a great way to hold the fine grit for fire lapping on the boolits. With the boolits seated way out (chamber/throat permitting) so that some of the lube grooves and driving bands are exposed, it should prevent most of it from being scraped off by the case neck in the seating operation.

[Bass Ackward]

It just occured to me that LA would be a great way to hold the fine grit for fire lapping on the boolits. With the boolits seated way out (chamber/throat permitting) so that some of the lube grooves and driving bands are exposed, it should prevent most of it from being scraped off by the case neck in the seating operation.


Never .... seat or load fire lappers in your good dies. Deprime your fire lappers manually like with a nut and nail or if you have one of the old Lee hand die sets. Then bullets can be seated by hand. No scraping occurs period. If it does, then you have bullets that are too large in diameter and will cut agressively. They should be sized in a (cheap) nose through sizer. I use bullets this way. Kills two birds with one stone so to speak. I get a nice round sizer that I can smooth and open up to where I want, and I get fire lap bullets where the stuff is really engrained. The only problem is that you end up with a bunch of say .429 sizers that have to be marked as to their actual size. But I have a nice assortment for several calibers to handle any bullet hardness. And an abundent supply of LQA bottles setting around. 44man has been trying to buy these off me now for awhile. :grin:

But I then coat the bullets with Alox to keep from enlarging the throat on handguns .... or rifles. It will still cut where pressure is applied but only there. If you have any misalignment, it just retards throat expansion if this isn't a needed goal and only want to remove a constriction.

I even have LQA made up with smaller grit in it. Say 600. If you add some carbide flour, then all you have to do is roll it in a plastic bag and let dry. It cuts error free and is smooth. The problem with the carbide flour is that everything has to be broken down and cleaned with great detail to ensure complete removal. But that should be standard practice after any lapping event.

[6pt-sika]

When I first started casting I was using the two Lee FP molds for the 45-70 and tumble lubing with out sizing . I'd usually let the bullets sit after lubing for a week or so and I still had this problem .
So I got a Lyman 4500 ans started using Thompson's Blue Angel.
Now that I've commited to using some of Ranch Dogs design's I'm gonna start using Lee liquid alox on his designs......But I'm gonna try running them thru Lee lube sizers and see if it makes a difference .
Personally I think that stuff is gonna build up regardless of what you do . Although I believe you can slow it down .:coffee:



:castmine:

[BABore]

Listen to the regular users. Cut the LLA 50/50 with mineral spirits. I coat the bullets and set them on their bases in front of a small (6 inch) fan. They're dry in less than an hour. I usually size and recoat, then when dry, put them in a gallon ziploc with a quarter teaspoon of motor mica and toss. Everytime I take a casting break I'm attending to my LLA process so they're almost all lubed with one coat and ready to size by the time I'm done. Don't get hardly any die buildup.

[lefty_red]

Had the same problems....

A litttle will do ya, and if you think you need more, lightly coat again.

Jerry

[Doble Troble]

I've been cutting with MS in a shot glass and dipping to just the grease grooves and setting on Saran Wrap to dry. The noses stay clean and so do the dies.

I've dipped with other lubes but for reasons I can't explain with my 38-55 the LLA is significantly more accurate.

[Bucks Owin]

Doble Troble, I'm with you...

Even dry, they'll still scrape off some gunk in the die if the entire boolit is covered with the ugly stuff. I prefer to "dip lube" if the boolits are large enough to handle by the ogive. You could use some soft nosed pliers or small hose etc for grasping smaller bullets if desired. This method puts more lube where it's wanted and none where it isn't....(which keeps the crap out of your dies!)

FWIW,

Dennis

shown: .44 250K and .45/70 405 gr....... LLA was "cut" slightly with laquer thinner....

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/IMAGE051.jpg

[tomf52]

In my previous post regarding Lee timble lube I stated that I found I had to lube before and after sizing in my 450. This was a goof on my part. What I wanted it to read was that I did NOT have to lube prior to sizing, only after for the normal lube function. There was no leading of the die or galling of the bullet sizing them "dry". Sorry for the error.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've never had much problem. I squirt it on freely, but have always left it a least over night. You get junk from all lubes, Bullet seating is wher I've had the most problem with conventional lubesized boolits, when a piece of lube comes adrift, instantly throws the die out of adjustment

[Newtire]

I have found that the increased leading I get with LA has helped inprove my scores tremendously. After "tuning" the bore with approximately 5 shots, the leading in the bore squeezes the .314" slugs out of my H & R .32 mag. down to a tidy size of just a shade over .177". This lengthening of the slugs increases the B.C. to a point where the slug carries out to the 600 yd. gong & I ring it most every time. I just smack the barrel a few times when I get home into my Lee 20-pound funace and it's loaded & ready to cast.

[Pawpaw]

I've been using LLA for years and never thought of dipping them. In a shot glass, no less. That is a great idea. I usually just tumble them and let them sit overnight. I keep lubed bullets in zip storage bags. I'll have to try dipping them. Sounds like it might work great.

Thanks, guys!

[buck1]

I think dipping would be the way to use it. But if i'm going to do that I will just run them through the sizer, almost as fast and I will have the lube groves full of premo lube. ...........Buck

[Bucks Owin]

I've been using LLA for years and never thought of dipping them. In a shot glass, no less. That is a great idea. I usually just tumble them and let them sit overnight. I keep lubed bullets in zip storage bags. I'll have to try dipping them. Sounds like it might work great.

Thanks, guys!

Works pretty good. You can "wipe" the boolit bases against the edge of the "shotglass" (or small fruit can) to get a lot of the excess off the base. Set out on wax paper...

Some guys then stand the bullets nose down if the meplat is big enough. (Kinda negates the whole idea though...)

Have fun experimenting,

Dennis

BTW, you can come back after an hour or so and dip them again for really heavy coat....

[44man]

Newtire, that is the funniest post in a long time. It should be right up front!