I did it!

[Hubertus]

As mentioned in the „Running out of excuses“ thread I had found a lead source and was planning to collect the required items to start casting small scale.
Our church has a second hand store where people are donating things they don’t need. Those are sold and the funds go to people in need, congregations in Africa, usually.
Anyway, I found an old enamel pot stainless steel tray, spoon and ladle for 5 bucks. An old hot plate I have borrowed from a friend. Well the only thing left was something to hit the sprue plate and, you guessed it, A MOLD.
By accident I found a used Lee459-405 HB on the German ebay for a very reasonable price and bought it.

Today after lunch I set everything up on the balcony.
I followed the instructions by Lee. While the pot was heating up I used disinfection fluid to swap out the cavity, WD40 for the sprue plate and v-ribs, after that I smoked the cavity with a lighter.

Now comes the smoky part: after about 15 minutes the all lumps had gone liquid. I used a small amount of bees wax and tossed it into the pot. Wow, smoke all over – well I guess it was a bit too much. Hopefully the fumes are not too poisonous. Skimming the dross was relatively easy, since the lead/tin mix was quite clean from the start. I fluxed 2 times more and then started.

Pouring the first fill with mixed emotions and still thinking of all the threads here – move over the water filled bucket with a towel. Open the handles and….. the boolit dropped without any interference.

Unfortunately I found out after about 20 pours that I was working too slowly. The fill-out was not complete. Increasing the frequency helped.

Well after about 1 hour of scooping, filling and dropping interspersed with fluxing, I had 64 boolits. Due to the starter problems I only kept 28. Next time it might get better.

Opening the sprue with a gloved hand was quite easy I didn’t even need the hammer handle I had bought. When the sprue plate started to open a little harder I applied some more WD40 with a q-tip – still I managed to get some tiny grooves into the block on the way of the sprue [smilie=b:. I guess better lube is needed here.
The mike says the boolits are .459” :lovebooli

Please have a look at my very first keepers!!!

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Boolits/First%20casting%20session/IMG00241-20091018-1730.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Boolits/First%20casting%20session/IMG00244-20091018-1732.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Boolits/First%20casting%20session/IMG00245-20091018-1732.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/Boolits/First%20casting%20session/IMG00246-20091018-1733.jpg

Now I can say for the first time: [smilie=w::castmine:
Next time, hopefully the keepers will be outnumbering the remelts.
Hubertus

[mpmarty]

ausgetseichtnit. I hope my phonetic spelling of that was close enough for you to decipher.

Congratulations and welcome to the asylum.

[Shiloh]

Those boolits look GREAT!!

Congrats!!

With practice you'll develop a rhythm that will increase production.
See this link from the Stickies page. Check out Goatlips Speed Casting at his casting page.
http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/index.html

Shiloh

[Ricochet]

Very nice work!

[StarMetal]

Yes I agree, and now you belong to Cast Boolits Anonymous!!! Meetings are daily.

Joe

[montana_charlie]

I saw a hint of a 'fin' on one of them which might have been the result of not keeping the mould closed tightly...but those are pretty respectable for a first try.

And, that is from a guy who is not shy about pointing out defects...

What is the 'source' of your lead? Do you know what is in it?
I bet you don't need the water bucket...just the towel.

CM

[Echo]

Super boolits, Hubertus. Und Wie Gehts!

[Hang Fire]

Looking good for first go at it and practice will make perfect, well, at least it will cut down on rejects somewhat.

None of us knew what we were doing when we first started, and after 50 years of casting, I sometimes still have doubts about myself knowing very much about the game.

[Dennis Eugene]

Some of the best first try boolits I've seen here so far. Good Job! Dennis

[rwt101]

I've done about 5 batches of 100 and I am jealous. They look great. I wish mine looked that good.
Bob T

[phishfood]

IF I were the jealous type, I would be. Those look really good.

Don't worry about the rejection rate, as my first casting session was even worse. What seemed to help was speeding up the casting cycle just a little so that the aluminum mold stayed a little warmer. I also left the ladle floating in the melt between pours.

Keep in mind that any advice that I may offer is from a rank amateur, and if someone who actually knows what they are doing says opposite, listen to them.

[John Guedry]

Your rejects probably are better than my "keepers". Keep it up.

[hydraulic]

Now, the important part-what are you going to shoot them in and what kind of a load?

[runfiverun]

excellent.
next time don't keep calling the wife out and showing her.
we expect to see pictures of the targets.
:lol:

[303Guy]

Waaaay Cool! :drinks:

P.S. I just found out you are supposed to light the wax fumes!

[Three44s]

I am green with envy ............

.......... Congratulations!!!! You did well!!!

Three 44s

[Ugluk]

Real nice. My first keepers didn't look that good, but I didn't want to throw them all back in the pot..

I'm guessing bullplate is hard to find for you, and if so, try 2-stroke oil with a q-tip will work better than wd40 wich seem to be mostly perfumed diesel anyway..

[Ugluk]

Also, after advice here on the site I stir the melt with a piece of slim wood. Paintstirring sticks have been mentioned and I use similar pieces of woodworking scrap. It smokes very little and give a good result. Keep the expensive beeswax for lube or leatherwork.

[Hubertus]

Thank you for all your nice words.
That’s exactly what a new caster needs to keep going, honestly I feel the itch already and I am travelling for work this week …will this ever stop?

Next time I will sure up the speed a bit to keep the mold warmer.
Regarding the fins, yes I had to reject 5 or 10 boolits after the session due to fins. It took me a while to find out that a tiny bit of lead had caught on the rim of the self adjusting pin and wedged into the groove. This prevented a full close and I removed it with a match.

The whole process was less messy than I thought. The only exception was the bees wax flux that produced quite some smoke, even the smallest amount. Even using a throw away respirator for fine dust - it tasted/smelled quite bad, next time I will use the proposed wooden stick to stirr and see.
I was particularly grateful for all the warning threads. Wearing heavy leather gloves I found at a point that one drop of lead jumped out of the pot (when putting the sprues back) and landed on the glove. That was close.

Montana_charlie you are right the bucket might not have been needed the lead is from a stained glass glazier and contains only lead and tin. The exact composition I can’t tell since he remelts it himself of the lead strips “polluted” with the solder he uses. According to my fingernail it is quite soft – I estimate it in the range of 20:1 or 30:1. Hence no hardening possible and needed.
I used the bucket because I thought it was the safest way of dropping the boolits in the confinement of the balcony. I was afraid to drop them on a towel because of heat and maybe damage of the noses. Next time I will try differently, too.
And thank you, I know you are not shy with your opinion on defects.

For you hydraulic (the others are allowed to have a look, too):
I am going to use the boolits in a 45-70 birthday present I received this year from my wife. (I know I posted the pics before and told the story …)
Still wanna have a look?

Here you go.
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/roller.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/roller_close.jpg

The load will be smokeless for starters IMR3031 in the 40 grains region after this maybe some tests with IMR4064.
Buuuuut since I managed to get a BP license last week wohooo I will of course try to get a load together with it, I am not even determined on the brand of BP yet.
Starting on common ground with SP and moving slowly towards the unknown BLACK

Proposals are always welcome.
Hopefully targets will follow soon...

Hubertus

[docone31]

Sweet!

[jlucht01]

Those look better then mine. I remelted 400 rounds before i kept my first one. its upgrade time though.. that two holer is dragging me down and my 4lb pot would never keep up.

Good luck and keep at it. Im at a stand still cause I ran out of primers... :(

[ghh3rd]

Very nice boolits indeed!

One thing that you mentioned in your original post was

still I managed to get some tiny grooves into the block on the way of the sprue

If you mean that you have some scratches accross the block where the sprue plate crosses, you probably have some galling. It took me a while to figure out what everyone was talking about when they said be careful not to gall the mold.

Galling a mold is when some melted lead gets smeared under the sprue plate and hardens to it. The most likely cause of this is cutting the sprue a little too soon, while the lead is still slightly melted. Every time the sprue plate is opened/closed, the lead that's attached to the underside of the sprue plate gets rubbed against the block, creating scratches and eventually gouges that can ruin the mold.

I finally had it happen to one of my molds, but noticed it when it was very slight and cleaned the lead off of the bottom of the sprue plate. I'm not sure if this is what is happening to you, but you may want to check it before casting again, just in case.

Welcome to the addiction.

Randy


ps: hope I explained galling correctly

[montana_charlie]

The whole process was less messy than I thought.

I used the bucket because I thought it was the safest way of dropping the boolits in the confinement of the balcony. I was afraid to drop them on a towel because of heat and maybe damage of the noses. Next time I will try differently, too.

Proposals are always welcome.
Here is a proposal for you about casting in a confined space...like mine.

Below is a 'cartoon-ey' drawing that shows the layout I use. I am right handed, and my pot is to the left so it's out of the way of all of the 'work' that needs to be done.
The gloves I wear are single thickness, uninsulated, deerskin work gloves that I use for fencing and everything else...not welding gloves, or anything exotic.

My pad is smallish (about 20 x 40 centimeters) but that can be adjusted to your space. It's mentally divided into three zones, and I'll explain each as I walk through my casting sequence. My sequence (or one similar) should be useful for you because we cast similarly large bullets from similar alloy. The only difference is my moulds (most of them) are iron.

To start, assume you have been casting long enough to have some bullets made, and some hot 'sprue junk' on the pad (folded towel). Previous bullets are lined up along the top edge, with the oldest to the right. When I stop to 'flux' (or pause for any reason) the next bullet will be aligned 'nose down' to show myself (later) that subsequent bullets may be 'different' from earlier ones.
You'll also see the newest hot bullet laying in the left-hand 'drop zone' of the pad.

I physically turn toward the pot to dipper pour the next bullet. Because the handles are in my left hand, the 'handle' of the sprue plate is pointing toward the back of the pot. Any lead that runs off of that 'handle' will (either) end up in the pot, or on the table behind the pot...not on the floor in front of the table, or
ON MY FOOT.

I will pour the cavity full, leaving a generous sprue while emptying the dipper...allowing the excess to run back into the pot. Tap the dipper handle on the pot edge to shake off any residue. If the nose of the nipple is cruddy, I wipe it against the heel of my left thumb. Leave the clean dipper floating on the molten surface to reheat.
By this time the sprue has hardened, taking five (or so) seconds.

Turning to face the pad, and using my right hand, I'll push the waiting bullet into the line at the top. I don't pick it up and place it there...I scoot it along and watch it as it rolls. Then, pick up the little bits of waiting 'sprue junk' and drop them in the pot. Might take a couple of motions to get them all...and there is no need to hurry.

Turn the sprue plate by hand, and let the 'junk' fall in the zone you just emptied. Then, holding the mould over the 'drop zone' break it open and let the new bullet fall.
If needed, the wooden 'knocker' is to the right, next to the 'dross spoon'.

From the time it was poured to the moment the mould is opened, thirty to forty seconds elapsed. During that time, the hot bullet was in the hot mould, but it was cooling and shrinking, which helps it fall out more easily.
It is during that 'holding period' that I make most 'rhythm' adjustments to account for different moulds and alloy temperatures.
You can increase the 'empty phase' before refilling the mould if you need to cool things down, but turning down the alloy temperature is probably a good idea if that gets very long.

Using the pad 'zones' in this way means you never run the risk of a bullet being 'dented' by dropping on another, and you have a chance to take a quick look for wrinkles while scooting a bullet into the top line. Also your 'junk' is going back in while it's still hot, so it doesn't affect pot temperature very much.

Here's that drawing...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=1435

CM

[Frank46]

My first cast boolits were for a trapdoor springfield and a low wall 32-20. used to do it in the basement but my mom (gone these many years now) had a good nose. So outside it was. I'd cast about enough to fill a good sized cigar box one day. Couple days later do the same. Had an old file cabinet just for the cigar boxes. Took a long time to get down to the last box. Then start over. The 32-20 were cast from a single cavity lyman mold. I estimate I had about 5000 32-20's and well over 6000 45/70's. Your casts look good keep up the good work. Get a set of welders gloves this was both hands are protected and you can still to the right hand swing to open the sprue
plate. Frank

[Hubertus]

Keep those tips and tricks going.
I am doing a collection here and one can always learn from more experienced people. It is always nice to hear different sides of the story. I am not casting in the basement; the balcony is really small, but there is fresh air. I consider this a good start given all the positive feedback and I hope I can improve and keep up the spirit. I didn’t use up too many rounds a year so far but maybe when the supply of boolits is secured by home casting this number will increase. I found it is really rewarding to create something like a boolit. But still we’ll have to see how they perform at the range.

In terms of the sprue plate lube I might try some synthetic motor oil instead of WD40. How would one go about removing lead from the moldblock side of the sprue plate?
Remove the plate float it in the melt and tap it off?
Use steel wool and gently wipe it off?

I think there is a grey wash that needs to be removed. That might be due to cutting the sprue too early, since I did this shortly after solidification.

MC thanks again, especially for the picture. Why didn’t I think about the workplace before starting? Most probably I just wanted to get the things going. But certainly a good layout of the workspace will aid improving quality and increasing speed. How thick is your towel or how many layers are you using, I suppose there is a wooden table underneath. I might have worked a bit too fast, not waiting the 30 to 40 seconds before cutting and dropping. Next time the test might show.

Is everybody dividing the boolits by weight? If so, what is the granularity you are using for that?


runfive I will never ever again get my wife out and show the results, in the end she wants to do the casting and I can’t have fun anymore…:mrgreen: She found it quite interesting, but was of course concerned about polluting the balcony – we do have two little ones.


Hubertus

[badgeredd]

"She found it quite interesting, but was of course concerned about polluting the balcony – we do have two little ones."

One thing I have found that helps to eliminate that concern is to use an old throw rug in front of your work table. When finished casting, one can carefully pick up the rug and take it outside to shake out any little fragments and most of the dust. Then sweep the area thoroughly.

MC,

I haven't tried a dipper yet, but your explanation was great and now I kinda have a clue as to the procedure. Thank you.

Edd

[montana_charlie]

But certainly a good layout of the workspace will aid improving quality and increasing speed.
I care a lot about quality, but don't give a damn about speed.
The main benefit I get from 'the layout' is a controlled environment that never gets cluttered; supports a 'rhythm' by having you performing the same 'dance steps' in the same spot each time; and is easy to clean up afterward.
I do my casting on my primary workbench in the shop. So, everything must be easy to clear off (when not casting) to allow work on 'ranch related' jobs.

How thick is your towel or how many layers are you using,
I use a standard weight terrycloth 'hand towel' folded to provide four layers. My recollection of the terrycloth in Germany makes me think yours is thicker and denser than our 'standard' stuff...and more like what we would call a 'turkish towel'.
You could probably get by nicely with two layers...maybe even one.

It's important to use cotton or wool cloth. Synthetic stuff is likley to 'melt' under hot bullets, but natural material doesn't even 'scorch' unless you are casting very hot.

As for culling by weight...
I am not shooting matches, so I have no need for one or two hundred bullets ready to load. That's why speed is no issue for me. I will usually quit at fifty.
Because these will (most always) be used in 'load development' shooting, I am super picky about weight and physical appearance.

Because a consistent rhythm produces consistent weight, I usually see less than 1 grain of difference between the lightest and the heaviest in my fifty 'new ones'...which run about 540 grains. When this is true, I cull based on appearance, and I take no prisoners. If I get (say) ten that are almost identical in weight but have a tiny pit or squiggle on the nose surface, I may keep them for sighting shots when changing distance. Otherwise, if a bullet is not a mirror image of the cavity, it is culled.

I can usually count on keeping at least thirty 'perfect ones', with the culls coming from among the first ten and (perhaps) two or three after each pause to flux...or whatever.

However many I keep, I sort them by weight into 'sets'...each of which will be fired into a single group on the target.
I want five (sometimes ten) per set, and those must all show the same reading on my cheapo digital jeweler's scale. It only resolves down to even numbers in the 'tenths' digit, so one set will weigh 542.2 and the next will be 542.4 grains.
If I end up with more than five in a certain weight, one will be 'wasted' as a fouler, and the rest fired for measurement.

Why put so much emphasis on weight when winning a match is not in the equation?
During load development for a given bullet design, you are going to introduce variables such as powder charge, amount of compression, wad numbers and materials, and types of lube.

The rifle is (hopefully) an unchanging constant, and (I believe) the bullet should be, as well. We all know to 'only change one thing at a time' in our loads, but that isn't happening if the bullet weight varies with each shot into the group.
The more consistent the bullet is, the more valid is a result from a small-but-intentional change in the load.

Once you have found your 'good load' and development is done, bullet weight becomes much less critical. A half-grain will cause less group widening than uncontrollable environmental factors such as wind, lighting, and biting deer flies.

An important ingredient to mix into all of this is the 'fun factor'.
If you aren't 'seeking perfection' because you're intrigued by the search...you are much better off to just cast, load, and shoot for the pure enjoyment of it.

When that is the goal, most of what I just said is simply hot air...

CM

[WHITETAIL]

Hubertus, Now you are hooked!
There is no cure for lead smelters.
Before you realize it you will be sneeking in the
Walmart parking lot with a pair of plyers in your pocket.:lovebooli

[Hubertus]

badgered, the rug is a very good idea, thanks.
Whitetail, oh yes. Finally I can understand what everybody was talking about. As time is scarce these days I am trying to arrange my next casting session….




I care a lot about quality, but don't give a damn about speed.
The main benefit I get from 'the layout' is a controlled environment that never gets cluttered; supports a 'rhythm' by having you performing the same 'dance steps' in the same spot each time; and is easy to clean up afterward.

Ok, I understand that. A controlled environment to be cleaned up easily is what I need too.



You could probably get by nicely with two layers...maybe even one.

It's important to use cotton or wool cloth. Synthetic stuff is likley to 'melt' under hot bullets, but natural material doesn't even 'scorch' unless you are casting very hot.

I certainly can find an old towel for this purpose and will try it next time.



As for culling by weight...
I am not shooting matches, so I have no need for one or two hundred bullets ready to load. That's why speed is no issue for me. I will usually quit at fifty.
Because these will (most always) be used in 'load development' shooting, I am super picky about weight and physical appearance.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I will try to weigh the boolits, since it is my first attempt. I culled over the half of them, even though some had only small marks.


Because a consistent rhythm produces consistent weight, I usually see less than 1 grain of difference between the lightest and the heaviest in my fifty 'new ones'...which run about 540 grains.

There might be my biggest opportunity for improvement. During the session I was trying to count seconds in between every step but got distracted once in a while. On top of that I was trying to modulate the rhythm in order to get complete fill-out.




Why put so much emphasis on weight when winning a match is not in the equation?
During load development for a given bullet design, you are going to introduce variables such as powder charge, amount of compression, wad numbers and materials, and types of lube.

The rifle is (hopefully) an unchanging constant, and (I believe) the bullet should be, as well. We all know to 'only change one thing at a time' in our loads, but that isn't happening if the bullet weight varies with each shot into the group.
The more consistent the bullet is, the more valid is a result from a small-but-intentional change in the load.

Again, that makes a lot of sense. I will try getting to that point, it might take a while though.





An important ingredient to mix into all of this is the 'fun factor'.
If you aren't 'seeking perfection' because you're intrigued by the search...you are much better off to just cast, load, and shoot for the pure enjoyment of it.

When that is the goal, most of what I just said is simply hot air...

CM

Agreed on the fun factor. Like written by Chuck Raithel in the in the BPCR primer I like hitting things (targets). But I am not competing, I wouldn’t even know whether there is a competition going on with BPCR around here. So the low volume is fine for me. Eventually I will hunt with it, too. You are writing ‘seeking perfection’ I am a believer in definition. The definition of perfection might be different with you, me or somebody else. I think it needs a context. Perfect for what? The tiniest groups, the longest distance, lowest elevation, cleanest hunting kill...
Generally we are striving for the same thing, you might be closer than me, because I just started with casting and the groups from my last range report are not astronomic. But I certainly have fun playing to find the ‘perfect’ load for me in the Roller. It might not even be only one. There might be one for target shooting, one for hunting ….

Thanks for the insights. That always keeps me thinking and trying to improve …

Hubertus

[danny.k]

Hubertus -

Nice first cast!

That rollingblock needs a friend....i got a 1896 remington rollingblock in 8x58RD that you might be interested in. Its almost mint, only got a couple scratches in the wood.

/danny

[6.5 mike]

Hubertus- very nice boolits for just starting out. The "goatlips speed casting" page is a great read, it helped me a great deal starting out. Plus it's a fun read.
When you find the "groove", you'll know it, everthing will fall into place, & you'll be surprized how easy it will go & how many boolits will flow from your mould.
The only catch to this is, you are now truly hooked. Enjoy, 6.5 mike.

[captain-03]

Excellent - my first did not look that well!!