Must have got a Lee Wednesday mould...

[bootsnthejeep]

Because it was right up to snuff right out of the box. Well, sprayed down with brake clean, about a dozen wrinkled bullets and then right up to snuff. Bullets fill out nice and drop right at .452. Don't like those dinky little lube grooves, but I planned to TL these anyway. A Lee 452-255-RF, btw.

Now my question is twofold. I'm used to steel moulds. This is the first aluminum lee (other than round ball moulds) that I've used. So I think I need to modify my behavior a tad, but old habits are hard to break.

Initially I was running the melt WAY too hot. I didn't think the coleman stove could get the whole pot of melt up to 800 degrees, but I found out otherwise in a big hurry. Carved it back to 650 and that helped. Let the mould cool down and started over.

I'm water dropping in a shallow pan with a towel on the bottom. But the bullets are picking up a lot of dings and dents from landing on each other. So I'm wondering if there's not enough depth of water to cool the bullets before they land on each other. Anyone else using a pan and having or not having this problem? I need to step up to a bucket, just haven't put one together yet.

Second problem, this I presume is from running the mould and the melt too hot, but I'm not sure. While I'm casting, I knock the sprue plate open and always check the bases, if they're not filled out they go in the re-melt pile, if they're filled the go in the water. So I was casting away enjoying the pile of good bullets I was piling up.

But when I went to sort the culls, there were TONS of them. For big notches in the bases! I know they were smooth and round before I opened the mould. Does this happen on the way out? It hardly ever does it in exactly the same place, and its a very sharp gouge. On some others, the driving bands aren't perfectly aligned where the moulds meet, and almost look like the bands are half torn off. A lot of rejects.

So, my guess is that in trying to cast too fast and too hot, the bullet isn't actually hardening up enough in the mould so its still so soft when I open it that it changes? And the dents on the bases must be from the bullet hitting the mould on the way to the water. They still get the little dents and whatnot in the water jug, so I think I just need a deeper column of water for them to fall thru to cool off.

Thoughts? Don't know if I'll get out to the shop today to try again, cooler and slower, I got enough good ones to know that the mould is good and it just must be me screwing up, but I didn't think the aluminum moulds would run THAT differently. Never experienced anything like this with any of my steel moulds.

Thanks.

Boots

[cajun shooter]

Your alloy seems to be causing some of your problems. The Lee aluminum molds need to run hotter than 650 and work much better in the 750 range. With your driving bands it sounds as if you are not getting mold fill out. What are you shooting the bullets in? Most 45 caliber guns don't need water dropped bullets. Elmer Keith shot all his magnum loads with bullets in the 8-9 BHN range. I like bullets in the 12-15 range for most all pistol shooting. I don't have a problem with my 13 BHN bullets dropping in a cigar box onto a towel so that's why I say to look at your alloy. It sounds awful soft like pure lead with no tin at all.

[Shiloh]

I have a LEE 90351 228 gr. that drops as 452+. The two skinny lube grooves take alox tumble lube, and shoot well. I don't use it much preferring the LEE 90379 200 gr. TLSWC sixbanger mold. Those drop at .452 as well, and are quite accurate.

Shiloh

[bootsnthejeep]

Cajun, straight wheelweights. Smelted into ingots. And I was running the melt in that range for a while, getting good fillout AND good bases, but the damage was happening AFTER I opened the mould. If they were ALL culls, obviously I'd see the problem, but they were literally 50/50, for ever good bullet I kept another one went back to melt.

[bedwards]

I found that my Lee's for heavy boolits like to run hot. But then I have to be careful when I drop because they can hit each other and deform. I don't water drop and don't have any leading problems. I drop on an old cotton towel. I use straight w/w for 454 gc, 452 and 429 no gc. When I did water drop, I split an old towel in the cneter and laid it over the top of a 5 gal bucket to catch the boolits and then they rolled down the center to fall in the water. This also kept the splash to a mim.

hope that helps
be

[Rocky Raab]

Your problems are due to misalignment of the blocks. Lee blocks are noted for this, especially the two-cavity ones. I tap the block on the bench while holding just a touch of pressure on the handles and before I close the sprue plate. It is easy to see when the top of both blocks are correctly aligned or not. I have that same mould, and like it very much, BTW. Great bullet design.

For the 45 Colt, you almost certainly do not need to water-drop them. I don't. I also pay little attention to my alloy, using range scrap, wheelweights, some birdshot and a bit of bar solder once in a while. Cast, tumble in straight LLA and load. It works fine for me.

[jbc]

I have had this issue with one or two of my lee molds. I think I have chased it down to the mold temp being too hot. The boolits are not setting up in the mold fast enough and getting buggered up when they fall out of the mold. I would try a cheapo fan from wally-world blowing on the mold before opening. Just vary the time in the mold to see what works best. And yes this is an aluminum thing - it hasen't ever happened to me with a steel mold.

[Leftoverdj]

You did not mention lubing the mould after you cleaned it, and you absolutely must lube the alignment points to get Lee double cavities to align. It's very good idea to put bullets in the cavities and spray the mould faces, the top of the blocks, and the underside of the sprue plate with spray graphite. This does not quite replace lubing, but it sure reduces the likelihood of galling and mould damage when you forget.

[Dale53]

I see two things happening here:

1 - The "aluminum to aluminum" mould guides gall a bit and do not align well. The solution here is to use Bullshop's Sprue plate lube on the alignment surfaces.

2 - Run the metal temp at 725 degrees or so, and cool the mould under a
manicurist's fan (about $7.00 in the fan department of Target or Walmart).
It takes only 2-3 seconds to cool the sprue, then open the sprue plate (I
use my gloved hand with a twisting motion. If you hold under the fan too
long, the mould gets TOO cool. 2-3 seconds is about right.

I find that 2% tin helps fill-out when using WW's if you want perfect bullets (and
I certainly do strive for perfect bullets).

Dale53

[Rocky Raab]

I didn't think to say what the previous three posters did - and they are all correct. All my moulds are Lee and doing those things is so standard for me that I assume it is "universal knowledge." Obviously that's a poor assumption.

[Ricochet]

I drop mine in a bucket set on the floor, filled nearly to the top. After falling through that much water, they don't ding each other at all.

[StarMetal]

When I get a new Lee mould I radius bevel all four edges on top of the mould. This way my sprue plate has a nice gentle ramp to easily start it over the mould top. I've found less galling. Next I drill and tap for a set screw to anchor the sprue pivot screw. I'll check the cavities for burrs and remove. Then I will give the blocks a good cleaning. Next I'll apply graphite to the alignment V's, top of the mould, bottom of the sprue plate, and lube the sprue plate screw. I run my melt hot and cast fast as the aluminum blocks rid of heat fast.

If you are going to water drop you need to drop those bullets in the water in a uniform amount of time. When you are taking the time to check the bases after opening the sprue your bullet is cooling and not getting a consistent quenching. That cycle is also changed by changing your casting speed and your melt temp.

Joe

[bootsnthejeep]

I did lube the sprue plate and the alignment pins and V's with the bullplate, sorry I left that out. I only cleaned the mould with brake clean , held off on the kroil until I saw what it acted like, but it was dropping the bullets fine so I didn't bother. Didn't even think to smoke the mould, I was kind of excited and wanted to see what this was going to act like. :Fire:

I wasn't water dropping for hardness necessarily, I was just doing it to cool the bullets so they wouldn't hit each other and deform (working great, huh?). I did air cooled with some 45 ACP bullets, and they were sticking to each other where'd they'd land together on the towel, The ones that landed base to base were kind of a bear to get apart. Hence the water dropping. But I'll try the fan thing.

I was watching the block alignment pretty close, I don't think that was the issue, but I'll keep an extra close eye on it next time to be sure. And as for taking too much time to inspect the bases, this is just the time between when I knock the sprue plate open to when I rap the hinge bolt to jar the bullets out, its no more time that I would take normally except I'm just looking at it. I didn't get my loupe out or anything. [smilie=l:

One thing I think isn't helping, in hindsight, is that being used to steel moulds, and Lymans in particular, I'm used to giving the handle bolt a pretty good whack to drop the bullets out. I think it's not needed with this Lee. In retrospect I was noticing that occasionally the bullets would come out of the mould so enthusiastically that they'd actually go UP instead of down, over the mould and into the water. That much travel can't be good for the landing.

Ok, I'll try these suggestions next time around and see what happens. Thanks all.

Boots