H335 and Cast Bullets for .45-70

[bunnielab]

Hello,

I have seen data for H335 under 405g JSP bullets but never any listed for cast bullets of the same weight. I would like to use it for this as the velocity window is where I want and I already use it for other calibers.

In an issue of "Handloader" Brian Pierce did a pretty comprehensive article on reloading .45-70 for Marlin 1895s, in it he lists H335 for many jacked bullet loads at several pressure levels. I know it is *usually* safe to use jacketed data for cast bullets but wanted more information before I proceeded.

Has anyone here tried H335 in this manner or have any advice on the matter?

[NickSS]

I have not tried it but have seen data in I think an old Lyman manual but I could not find it. I usually stay away from ball powders with lead bullets as I have not had luck with them. I think I tried some H335 loads while I still had some but do not remember. I Use AA 2330 mostly now for those applications as I got a deal on a bunch of it.

[BABore]

I have used it, but only for boolits 460 grains and heavier. It shines there. Being quite slow for caliber, and H335 being a ball powder, I would not think it would do well in the 45-70 with light boolits like the 405. H322, 3031, and Benchmark will also respond for that weight boolit. For lighter boolits, like 300-375 gr, Reloder & and 4198 seem to work a little better. In otherwords, match boolit weights with burn rate (ie light-fast, heavy-slow). This is for top end loading. For lower velocity stuff, SR 4759 really shines.

[bunnielab]

All interesting points. I am pretty new to reloading (2 years) and there is a lot of stuff that I dont know. Most manuals tell you the *how* but not the *why* of things.

There are two points I would love some more information on:

1) It was mentioned that ball powders are to be avoided with lead bullets, why is this?

2) What would make a powder suitable for jacketed bullets of a given weight but not lead ones of the same rate?

3) By "not do well" do you mean that H335 would be dangerous with a 405g cast bullet or would just not preform well (ie, inconsistent velocity, poor accuracy)?

My main reason for asking this question is that I have a buddy who wants to "kick the tires" on my guide gun and I though it would be good to let him shoot a load that fully represents the recoil this thing can dish out. All I have currently are some light (~950fps) TrailBoss loads that I made up so that I can learn how to shoot this thing with out getting a huge flinch.

I don't need the H335 loads to be top performers, just safe. I don't have any more suitable powders on hand and my next order is months off.

Thanks for all the info so far, without the net I have none to ask these questions of.

[looseprojectile]

I think that ball or spherical powders prefer nearly a full case of powder to ignite and or burn consistently. For instance H110 powder in a magnum handgun cartridge doesn't perform well unless it is lit with a magnum primer and is loaded to near a full case. This tendency spills over to larger rifle cartridges with the various ball powders. I have experienced hang fires and inconsistent ignition when using less than a full case of ball powder. You might try several different searches using different entries and see if anything comes up.
I certainly would not use a full case of ball powder in a 45 70 unless it was a very slow burning ball powder. Ball powders were developed for relatively high intensity cartridges and are fairly dense. I have read all this on the internet but I don't remember where. Good luck in your search. Something to consider might be to explore less than a full case of ball powder and a filler to reduce the amount of powder that you use and therefore reduce the velocity and pressure.

Life is good

[Ricochet]

I have a batch of powder that was sold several years ago I think by Jeff Bartlett as "PSA," supposed to be a batch of Accurate 2230 made by the Chinese and rejected because Accurate didn't specify that it needed a flash suppressant and the Chinese didn't put any in. He said to use 3031 data, and I did. Under 340-405 grain boolits I've used up to 54 grains of it in my Marlin 1895 and Century revolver, and it works fine, with a very impressive muzzle flash! It's a powder in the H335 range; I'd expect H335 would work as well. My favorite load in the .45-70 nowadays is one I worked up myself using surplus WC680 under the 340 grain boolit with a magnum primer and a tuft of polyester fiberfill. 35 grains gives about 1475 FPS, seems to be quite mild pressurewise, and takes up around 2/3 of the case volume.

[w30wcf]

H335 has proved to be quite a good powder for me in the .45-70 under the RCBS 405 G.C. bullet. A capacity load of 58 grs goes a little over 1,900 f.p.s.

I have not tried it with lower velocity loads so I don't know how it would work in that application.

w30wcf

[BABore]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using H335 with 405 grain boolits. What I was getting at was what I have found that has worked best with certain boolit weights to get the best accuracy at top velocity. Since H335 is kind of on the slow side for the 45-70, it tends to work progressively better as you increase boolit weight. The added boolit weight increases ignition pressure which helps a slow for caliber ball powder burn more efficiently. Applies to most all calibers.

[softpoint]

I've used it with 300 gr. RCBS gascheck mold in maximum loads in the 45/70. Accuracy was OK, but not outstanding. The loads were quite hot, Idon't remember what they were now, and my chrono was broken at the time. I do remember they had the fiercest muzzle blast of any 45/70 loads I had ever shot!:coffee:

[MtGun44]

H335 works just fine for me in my GG under the RCBS 405 GC. I have found that
57.0 of W748 and a magnum primer is my most accurate moderate power load. Pearce
reports that this load (apparently due to the slow powder) meets trapdoor pressure
limits and it chronos 1750 in my GG. Essentially the same results with jacketed Rem 405s,
about 1.5" for 5 at 100 yds.

Bill

[Warhawk]

MY "standard" heavy load for the .45-70 is a R-P 405 JSP over a big charge of H335. It will give you all the blast, noise and recoil that you want. Very accurate in my 1975 vintage 1895 too.

[doubs43]

I've used it with 300 gr. RCBS gascheck mold in maximum loads in the 45/70. Accuracy was OK, but not outstanding. The loads were quite hot, Idon't remember what they were now, and my chrono was broken at the time. I do remember they had the fiercest muzzle blast of any 45/70 loads I had ever shot!:coffee:

In late 1991 I developed a load using the 300 grain RCBS GC bullet that actually drops at 315 grains. I use 3.0 grains of WW-231 topped by 57.0 grains of AA-8700... a duplex load. A standard primer is used. In my C. Sharps 1875 Business rifle it's very accurate and consistent. Recoil is more of a shove than a slap and I have almost no unburned grains of powder left in the bore. I've had no reason to experiment further.