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BobinIL
10-14-2009, 12:06 PM
I am going to start casting for a Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum. Most of my alloy consists of WW lead. I want to load a 240 grn SWC at around 1200 to 1400 FPS and a 300grn SWC at around 1200 to 1300 FPS. Would I be better off using a gas check for these velocities and the softer lead?? I am looking at the Lee molds for both bullets.

badgeredd
10-14-2009, 12:12 PM
I am going to start casting for a Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum. Most of my alloy consists of WW lead. I want to load a 240 grn SWC at around 1200 to 1400 FPS and a 300grn SWC at around 1200 to 1300 FPS. Would I be better off using a gas check for these velocities and the softer lead?? I am looking at the Lee molds for both bullets.

I've had good luck with a properly fitting PB in my 44s. I've come to the realization that a good alloy water dropped to toughen, is every bit as good as a GCed boolit in my guns at similar velocities. PB are cheaper (no GCs to buy) and require one less step in loading. Of course, it is all a matter of opinion.

Edd

mdi
10-14-2009, 12:18 PM
At those velocities I would (I do!). My Lyman 429244 sized to .430" over a starting charge of WC820 works great in my Super Blackhawk (about 1100 fps). I also use the Lee 240 gr TL .44 boolit w/out a gas check tumble lubed at a bit slower load of Unique with no leading. Most of my boolits are WW with a bit of solder for the tin. BTW my Lee molds work fine. I just remember Lee is aluminum and I adjust my casting routine accordingly (a bit less heat, quicker cycle)

lurch
10-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Ditto...

Both checked & plain base boolits will work at those velocities. PB requires a little more attention to detail and the checks cost money. Pick your poison. I've had good luck with just straight ACWW and a properly sized 429421, but that's my gun - each individual one will have its own likes & dislikes.

Shiloh
10-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Ive fired many of the Lyman 429421 Keith style boolits in a Smith Mod 29 and Ruger Redhawk with superb accuracy. Also the Lyman 429667 as well. Neither are a gas-checked boolit. The 429667 has had the Bevel Base machined off making it a bit lighter boolit.

These are cast with 50/50 WW and range scrap.

SHiloh

imashooter2
10-14-2009, 12:25 PM
I also use a plain base 429421.

Wally
10-14-2009, 12:45 PM
Both types will work..what I suggest is that you fire 50 of the plain base and check the bore to see if there is any lead build up--if there is not, all is well. I think that you will find that there will be; quite a lot. If so, you are better off using a gas checked bullet.

Even better---shoot a no. of five shot groups bot with and without a gas checked bullet...see which is more accurate. In most cases the gas checked bullet will be better, but maybe by not all that much.

mike in co
10-14-2009, 01:26 PM
my super red hawk shoots better( more accurate) without the gas check in place!

.................

mike in co

montana_charlie
10-14-2009, 01:27 PM
Obviously, you asked your question in order to help you decide which type of mould to buy.
I can't advise you on that because I don't use any gas checks...never have.

But, there is a rumor going around that you can shoot a gas check-type bullet with (get this) no gas check on it!

If that is true, you can buy the GC-type mould and take your pick on how you shoot the bullet.

Having (now) participated in this very recently started thread, I find myself wondering why it is not located in the Gas Check Forum...

CM

Trey45
10-14-2009, 02:39 PM
I have a 7.5" SBH Bisley hunter which loves 429215 gc with 22gr of H110. It also shoots the 429421 pb with a similar H110 charge very well. I have not noticed any leading with either boolit. I use a straight ww alloy water dropped. I have an LBT OWC mold which drops at around 240gr. Plain base boolit with a stout Unique charge, no leading and good accuracy. Your pistol will tell you better than any of us can what boolit it likes, and at what velocity it likes it.

azrednek
10-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Bob you likely wont be satisfied until you try them both ways. If you invest in a gas check mould and gas checks but decide you don't want to use them. You wont have much trouble selling them here or Ebay and recovering a good portion of your investment.

Tom W.
10-14-2009, 03:08 PM
Mt SRH shoots both a 310 gr Lee with a gas check and a 245 gr RCBS pb well, with the bigger boolit POI to the left of the RCBS boolit.

Lloyd Smale
10-14-2009, 03:45 PM
I agree with the guys who recomend them. About anytime ive pushed handguns much past a 1000 fps ive had better luck with gas checked bullets but its not written in stone. Ive had plain based bullets do fine but they tend to need a bit more load development and your gun has to be right.

jack19512
10-14-2009, 04:18 PM
I find myself wondering why it is not located in the Gas Check Forum...







[smilie=l:

Gohon
10-14-2009, 07:21 PM
I find myself wondering why it is not located in the Gas Check Forum...

Hmmmmm........I find this question more about speed (fps) and what to use to get there than just about GC's.

I don't shoot the 44 magnum but I do shoot the 45 Colt from a rifle at 1500+ fps and this is a 255 grain keith style cast from WW with 2% tin and not water dropped. .BHN averages 12, give or take .03. I do have a 314 grain cast LFN that runs at the same speed which are gas checked but again they are just air cooled wheel weights with 2% tin. I have no leading issues from either of these loads and accuracy is excellent. To me bullet fit is far more important than hardness of the cast until I reach the 1800-1900 fps area and even then I don't water drop, instead I oven heat treat for consistency. Actually I believe to much hardness can cause more problems than it solves and to me water dropping doesn't allow me to control consistency of hardness as does oven heat treating.

So to answer your question, personally I would start with the non gas check design and size .002-.003 over bore with a bhn of 11-12. If your mould drops at that size then so much the better. I think from a revolver you most likely will find you just don't need anything harder.

imashooter2
10-14-2009, 08:49 PM
Hmmmmm........I find this question more about speed (fps) and what to use to get there than just about GC's.



Which is exactly why we didn't need a gas check forum in the first place. :roll:

1Shirt
10-14-2009, 08:55 PM
If you cast them large enough (most Rugers want a couple thous over size), and use a good lube (I like Lars Red) you can probably drive them with no sweat with the vols you want for either PB or GC's.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

jack19512
10-14-2009, 11:04 PM
Now the confusion begins. Which posts containing the words Gas check goes to the new gas check area and which will qualify to not go there? [smilie=b:

bedwards
10-15-2009, 09:53 AM
I'm have used a plain base 429421 w/w in a Smith md 29 for years and it shoots well. I'll have to look the data up, but I'm loading it pretty heavy with no leading.

44man
10-15-2009, 10:53 AM
I made PB molds for my .45, 45-70 BFR and the .475 BFR. I shoot the 45-70 around 1630 fps and have shot down to 5/16" groups at 50 yards and under 1" at 100. I get zero leading.
I get decent accuracy with a semi wadcutter but never have equaled a truncated cone or RNFP in any gun. The 429421 is a great boolit but I better it with the RD 265 gr, the Lee 310 gr and my home made molds but they all use gas checks. It is sad Lee does not offer PB options with all of their revolver boolits.
When I bought the Lee 400 gr mold for the .475, I wondered why it was a PB but found it shoots super.
My next .44 molds will be PB.
Boolits MUST fit the gun if PB and they must be harder like water dropped WW metal. Softer just makes fliers.
If you shoot softer boolits or alloy for hunting for expansion, stay with a gas check.
Babore sent me some boolits cast of 50-50 WW's and pure. They have been oven hardened. I have two that are exactly the same but one is a GC and the other PB. The GC boolit punches almost one hole but the PB scatters. I am 100% sure if the PB was cast out of my hard alloy that it would equal the GC boolit.
Pay close attention to alloy and hardness for a PB boolit and it will shoot along with anything.
This is what I am talking about. This is a Rapine PB at 50 yards that is just a little too soft. Notice the flier. This will go away with a few points higher BHN.
I know most don't agree but after many, many years of experimenting, hardness can correct many problems.
By the way, this boolit is approaching 1650 fps.

joeb33050
10-15-2009, 11:24 AM
I am going to start casting for a Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum. Most of my alloy consists of WW lead. I want to load a 240 grn SWC at around 1200 to 1400 FPS and a 300grn SWC at around 1200 to 1300 FPS. Would I be better off using a gas check for these velocities and the softer lead?? I am looking at the Lee molds for both bullets.

I know little about loading for revolvers or autoloading pistols. That said, I've loaded and shot many tens of thousands of cartridges for revolvers, most frequently 44 and 357 magnums.
In the 1957 "Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets", pages 88 and 89, Elmer Kieth explains why you don't need a gas check on pistol bullets, and Ray Thompson explains why you do.
I have never cast or loaded a pistol bullet requiring a gas check.
In my Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook, there is no load for a 44 Mag. 300 grain bullet, cast or jacketed, above 1075fps, so your 1200-1300 fps desire for a 300 grain bullet ain't going to happen.
Also, same source, on 240 grain at above 1300 fps is unlikely.

And, nobody I know is going to shoot many fast heavy loads from a 44 Mag. Very few people have the fortitude to shoot many 1200 fps 245 grain 429421s out of a handgun.

During my handgun days, after reading "Sixguns", I, along with thousands of others, shot from several positions at long range = 200 yards for me. Sitting, back against a tree/car wheel/bump and gun hands between knees was my favorite.
I shot 44 Mag., 9/Unique with 429421 in WW, some 600-800 per week, for many months/several years. It took most of my spare time to cast and load.
So here's the answer to your question.
You're not going to shoot many high energy loads in a 44 Mag.
If you want to learn/practice, shoot 800-900 fps.
For any reasonable V, plain based bullets work fine.
Even for high V, they work fine.
Don't buy/use a GC mold.
Take the $$ you save not buying gas checks, and buy some jacketed bullets for the highest V. If you need to.

That, my friend, is my story, and...........
joe b.

44man
10-15-2009, 02:41 PM
I know little about loading for revolvers or autoloading pistols. That said, I've loaded and shot many tens of thousands of cartridges for revolvers, most frequently 44 and 357 magnums.
In the 1957 "Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets", pages 88 and 89, Elmer Kieth explains why you don't need a gas check on pistol bullets, and Ray Thompson explains why you do.
I have never cast or loaded a pistol bullet requiring a gas check.
In my Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook, there is no load for a 44 Mag. 300 grain bullet, cast or jacketed, above 1075fps, so your 1200-1300 fps desire for a 300 grain bullet ain't going to happen.
Also, same source, on 240 grain at above 1300 fps is unlikely.

And, nobody I know is going to shoot many fast heavy loads from a 44 Mag. Very few people have the fortitude to shoot many 1200 fps 245 grain 429421s out of a handgun.

During my handgun days, after reading "Sixguns", I, along with thousands of others, shot from several positions at long range = 200 yards for me. Sitting, back against a tree/car wheel/bump and gun hands between knees was my favorite.
I shot 44 Mag., 9/Unique with 429421 in WW, some 600-800 per week, for many months/several years. It took most of my spare time to cast and load.
So here's the answer to your question.
You're not going to shoot many high energy loads in a 44 Mag.
If you want to learn/practice, shoot 800-900 fps.
For any reasonable V, plain based bullets work fine.
Even for high V, they work fine.
Don't buy/use a GC mold.
Take the $$ you save not buying gas checks, and buy some jacketed bullets for the highest V. If you need to.

That, my friend, is my story, and...........
joe b.
But Joe, the 320 gr LBT runs along at an average of 1316 fps out of my .44. That is with 21.5 gr of 296, Fed 150 primer.
Now with a max load of 23 gr I get an average of 1421 fps. Granted I have a 10" barrel but you will not lose much with a 7-1/2".
I don't know what the 265 RD with 22 gr or the 310 Lee at 21.5 gr is doing because I never checked velocity. Or my 330 gr with 20.5 gr.
I can say they are no slouch for speed and accuracy.
I expect a 300 gr to be very easy to get over 1400 fps but that might be over where it is accurate so I expect somewhere around 1350 fps to be better. 21.5 gr of 296 would be my first try.
Now drop at 200 is pretty bad with a .44, as much as 35" with a heavy boolit so your lighter 429421 with 9 gr of Unique should be close, maybe more because of the light boolit.
Now take a 420 gr boolit from the .475 started at 1329 fps, it drops around 18" at 200. A 317 gr from the 45-70 BFR only drops 16" with 1632 fps. None of these loads are max and brass falls out of the guns.
What I am saying is that you can get more velocity at very safe pressures then what is needed for accuracy then what your info is giving you. It is why I say never to look for max velocity, ONLY accuracy, because even at the best accuracy, the boolit is still fast enough for anything.
A 300 gr boolit over 1075---FOR SURE, it does not even match twist going that slow!
Now what is a 245 gr 429421 doing with 24 gr of 296? UMMM, I don't know but it is a LOT more then you think. you will push 1500 fps or more.
I agree not many can handle recoil from these loads, look at all the new guns for sale that have only been shot a few times. All one needs to do is shoot 100 rounds from a .475 and the .44 will be SOOOOO nice! [smilie=s: Even the .475 can grow on one, it is my first choice now to shoot, I just love the thing.

Leftoverdj
10-15-2009, 02:49 PM
I know y'all are talking pistols, but out of a rifle, you need GCs to get accuracy at any decent velocity.

Blammer
10-15-2009, 04:26 PM
I am going to start casting for a Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum. Most of my alloy consists of WW lead. I want to load a 240 grn SWC at around 1200 to 1400 FPS and a 300grn SWC at around 1200 to 1300 FPS. Would I be better off using a gas check for these velocities and the softer lead?? I am looking at the Lee molds for both bullets.


240gr Plain base boolits with WW's air cooled at 1200-1400fps are doable, and fairly easy, IMO.

The 300gr SWC at the velocity is also doable with a plain base.

In your example, GC's are usually good if you are going to use a soft alloy and push it hard.

missionary5155
10-15-2009, 04:55 PM
Greetings
I shoot gas check designs WITHOUT GC's in many of my rifles AS LONG AS the boolit is at least .001+ over throat area diameter AND the barrel grove diameter is not larger than that anywhere to include the crown area & the mix will take the acceleration / pressure. I have on occasion found out I goofed and should have used a GC or a harder mix.
I have also gone to a lintype mix to get away from having to use GC's and or waterdropping.
I am rather happy to launch the RCBS 180g flat nose GC design over 12 grains Unique out of my 06's. Bowling pins at 100 yds seem to fall at a regular interval if I can get my wiggle calmed downand my cross sticks do not slip. There are velocity/pressure limitations to this but when the load does NOT need a GC why send another 2-3 cents down range.
Many GC designs have a very thin full diameter band before the lowest grease grove. Some bands are thicker and hold up well to a some back side pressure. But again there are limitations. Thin bands fail quickly. Thick bands will also eventually fail with enough pressure. So when failure happens... I give it a bandade and slap it a bit harder on the backside.
I also have a nice custom 265 grain GC mold for my 41 mag. I have no reason not to try launching those pills WITHOUT a GC IF again the boolit fits the throats and barrels properly & the acceleration/pressure is within the structural capacity of the mix. Sometimes I have erred and had some leading.... BUT I sure am gonna try a no GC load if the parameters seen to say...IT SHOULD WORK.
Gasoline engine pistons do not have the top pressure ring right at the top of the piston... nor diesel pistons... The old heel type boolits did just fine sealing off pressure. I think the lowly 22 long rifle still does. So why Not a gas check design opperating just fine without a gas check ? Yes within the structural limits of the design /mix/hardness of the boolit and the pressure subjected to that lowest band.
Seems to work fine in my rifles.

jack19512
10-15-2009, 05:47 PM
I know y'all are talking pistols, but out of a rifle, you need GCs to get accuracy at any decent velocity.







What do you consider decent velocity? My Marlin 1895 CB 45/70 and Marlin 1894 44 mag shoot very good without a GC at around 1200 fps.

joeb33050
10-15-2009, 06:50 PM
But Joe, the 320 gr LBT runs along at an average of 1316 fps out of my .44. That is with 21.5 gr of 296, Fed 150 primer.

All Lyman #48
429650 gc 19.0 296 max load 1064 fps, 38,300 cup


Now with a max load of 23 gr I get an average of 1421 fps. Granted I have a 10" barrel but you will not lose much with a 7-1/2".



I don't know what the 265 RD with 22 gr or the 310 Lee at 21.5 gr is doing because I never checked velocity. Or my 330 gr with 20.5 gr.
I can say they are no slouch for speed and accuracy.
I expect a 300 gr to be very easy to get over 1400 fps but that might be over where it is accurate so I expect somewhere around 1350 fps to be better.


21.5 gr of 296 would be my first try.


Now drop at 200 is pretty bad with a .44, as much as 35" with a heavy boolit so your lighter 429421 with 9 gr of Unique should be close, maybe more because of the light boolit.
Now take a 420 gr boolit from the .475 started at 1329 fps, it drops around 18" at 200. A 317 gr from the 45-70 BFR only drops 16" with 1632 fps. None of these loads are max and brass falls out of the guns.
What I am saying is that you can get more velocity at very safe pressures then what is needed for accuracy then what your info is giving you. It is why I say never to look for max velocity, ONLY accuracy, because even at the best accuracy, the boolit is still fast enough for anything.
A 300 gr boolit over 1075---FOR SURE, it does not even match twist going that slow!
Now what is a 245 gr 429421 doing with 24 gr of 296? UMMM, I don't know but it is a LOT more then you think. you will push 1500 fps or more.

429421 25.0 H110 1301 fps, 35300 cup max load in Lyman 48. (H110~=296)

I agree not many can handle recoil from these loads, look at all the new guns for sale that have only been shot a few times. All one needs to do is shoot 100 rounds from a .475 and the .44 will be SOOOOO nice! [smilie=s: Even the .475 can grow on one, it is my first choice now to shoot, I just love the thing.

You're way out of line with Lyman 48, and scare me. I don't think you should write such stuff here. Look at the manuals. There isn't one revolver shooter in a hundred that will enjoy shooting 50 300 gr bullets at much over 1000 fps in a 44 mag revolver.
Be careful.
joe b.

Leftoverdj
10-15-2009, 07:29 PM
What do you consider decent velocity? My Marlin 1895 CB 45/70 and Marlin 1894 44 mag shoot very good without a GC at around 1200 fps.

That's about the limit for Marlins and PB bullets. With a GC, you can push them past 1700 fps. I consider 1200 fps loads plinkers. Nothing wrong with plinkers if that's what you are going to do with them.

jack19512
10-16-2009, 10:45 AM
I consider 1200 fps loads plinkers






Just curious, how fast do you have to push a 340 gr. or 405 gr. boolit out of a 45/70 or a 265 gr. or 300 gr. boolit out of a 44 mag before it becomes more than a plinker load?

Whitworth
10-16-2009, 10:54 AM
You're way out of line with Lyman 48, and scare me. I don't think you should write such stuff here. Look at the manuals. There isn't one revolver shooter in a hundred that will enjoy shooting 50 300 gr bullets at much over 1000 fps in a 44 mag revolver.
Be careful.
joe b.

What are you talking about, Joe? I know lots of handgunners who shoot calibers that make even heavily loaded .44s feel like a maiden's caress. You should try my .500 Linebaugh! ;)

44man
10-16-2009, 11:16 AM
You're way out of line with Lyman 48, and scare me. I don't think you should write such stuff here. Look at the manuals. There isn't one revolver shooter in a hundred that will enjoy shooting 50 300 gr bullets at much over 1000 fps in a 44 mag revolver.
Be careful.
joe b.
Several things don't add up with your figures Joe. Max load for a JACKETED 300 gr bullet is 20 gr at 34,800 to 35,400 at 1303 to 1290 fps depending on whether H110 or 296. Everyone knows cast will lower the pressure.
Then you show an overload for the 429421 at only 35,300?????
I think you should dump the Lyman book and go to the hodgdon site.
None of my loads are over or near max.

fredj338
10-16-2009, 11:18 AM
I agree with the guys who recomend them. About anytime ive pushed handguns much past a 1000 fps ive had better luck with gas checked bullets but its not written in stone. Ive had plain based bullets do fine but they tend to need a bit more load development and your gun has to be right.

Also my experience. A GC design will work better in a rough bore. I let the mold design dictate. For practice, I shoot PB LSWC. For hunting, a GC LHP.

joeb33050
10-16-2009, 11:21 AM
What are you talking about, Joe? I know lots of handgunners who shoot calibers that make even heavily loaded .44s feel like a maiden's caress. You should try my .500 Linebaugh! ;)
I'm talking about the writer mentioning loads that are well above max in Lyman 48th.
I'm talking about damn few shooters able to shoot heavy loads in revolvers and enjoy it.
I am immensely strong, and weigh more than some small automobiles, and I never got comfortable shooting full power 44 mag.
I've spent enough time at ranges watching revolver guys bleed, swear, try to act unphased, and shoot with closed eyes. A friend has a S&W 460 Magnum, and admitted after 3-4 shots that it just doesn't make sense. Get a small rifle, stop the nonsense.
I'm sure that you're an ace with your revolver, there's one out of every hundred or thousand.
That's what *I'm talking apout.
joe b.

fredj338
10-16-2009, 11:22 AM
I know little about loading for revolvers or autoloading pistols. That said, I've loaded and shot many tens of thousands of cartridges for revolvers, most frequently 44 and 357 magnums.
In the 1957 "Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets", pages 88 and 89, Elmer Kieth explains why you don't need a gas check on pistol bullets, and Ray Thompson explains why you do.
I have never cast or loaded a pistol bullet requiring a gas check.
In my Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook, there is no load for a 44 Mag. 300 grain bullet, cast or jacketed, above 1075fps, so your 1200-1300 fps desire for a 300 grain bullet ain't going to happen.
Also, same source, on 240 grain at above 1300 fps is unlikely.
And, nobody I know is going to shoot many fast heavy loads from a 44 Mag. Very few people have the fortitude to shoot many 1200 fps 245 grain 429421s out of a handgun.
During my handgun days, after reading "Sixguns", I, along with thousands of others, shot from several positions at long range = 200 yards for me. Sitting, back against a tree/car wheel/bump and gun hands between knees was my favorite.
I shot 44 Mag., 9/Unique with 429421 in WW, some 600-800 per week, for many months/several years. It took most of my spare time to cast and load.
So here's the answer to your question.
You're not going to shoot many high energy loads in a 44 Mag.
If you want to learn/practice, shoot 800-900 fps.
For any reasonable V, plain based bullets work fine.
Even for high V, they work fine.
Don't buy/use a GC mold.
Take the $$ you save not buying gas checks, and buy some jacketed bullets for the highest V. If you need to.
That, my friend, is my story, and...........
joe b.
I don't know Joe, I've shot 100s & 100s of full house 44mag loads in met.sil. competition. Enought to beat a RBH to ****. Just because the new Lyman book doesn't show a load doesn't mean it's not safe. Most of the ammo I shot back then & some of it today, easily makes 1300fps w/ a 240gr in a 7 1/2"bbl & 1200fps w/ 310gr is not difficult.[smilie=s: FWIW, I prefer a GCLHP to a JHP for hunting. Works just as well & the lead bullet is just a bit easier on the forcing cone. My fun level does top at a 4" 44mag w/ 270grLHP @ 1100fps. It's also hard on the gun so except for test shots, it doesn't get a steady diet of those. Going to a 475Linbaugh was at my upper end fun zone. I would not want to shoot a steady diet of those.

Whitworth
10-16-2009, 11:44 AM
I'm talking about the writer mentioning loads that are well above max in Lyman 48th.
I'm talking about damn few shooters able to shoot heavy loads in revolvers and enjoy it.
I am immensely strong, and weigh more than some small automobiles, and I never got comfortable shooting full power 44 mag.
I've spent enough time at ranges watching revolver guys bleed, swear, try to act unphased, and shoot with closed eyes. A friend has a S&W 460 Magnum, and admitted after 3-4 shots that it just doesn't make sense. Get a small rifle, stop the nonsense.
I'm sure that you're an ace with your revolver, there's one out of every hundred or thousand.
That's what *I'm talking apout.
joe b.


Joe, you are right that most folks can't even shoot the .429 magnum well as they find the recoil to be debilitating. Big bore revolvers are not for the neophyte, but that doesn't mean that you can't work up to stout loads. I too had trouble shooting my .475 Linebaugh well when I got it, but I shoot it a lot and it has become second nature to me. You have to practice a lot with these big revolvers to become competent with them. The same thing applies to big-bore rifles (I have a few of those as well).

I have shot the big X-frames and I find the .460 to be quite manageable and pleasant until you move into real heavy loads (like CorBon's 395 grain WFNs at 1,525 fps -- yeehaw!). Again, not for everyone, but there are quite a few here that shoot the heavy recoilers well -- like 44man -- who I know personally and have hunted with on many occasions.

44man
10-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Joe, the .44 is a ***** cat! Feels like a .38 with a 330 gr boolit after shooting a real gun.
Come shoot my Vaquero .45 with a 347 gr boolit, most never make 6 shots with it, maybe 1 or 2 is all they can take.
Now shoot a Freedom .475 a few times so we can separate flakes from men! The BFR .475 is COMFORT compared to a Freedom.
I am almost 72 and it is nothing to shoot 100 .475 rounds.
And I never load to max unless the boolit needs it for accuracy.
Whitworth is correct and watch out, he will put you to shame at 100 yards off hand with a full house .475. I won't even mention what he can do with the .44 and the pipsqueak recoil.
What you forget is that shooting light loads will not prepare you for hunting loads. As soon as the loads get heavy you will flinch BAD. Don't be one of those that says you need to start with light loads because IT DOES NOT WORK. Shoot what you are going to use, nothing less. If you can't handle it, sell the gun to me.

243winxb
10-17-2009, 03:47 PM
For a plain base bullet a BHN of 15 air cooled is good using 50/50 alox/bees wax. You can try softer WW. I size & lube with a Lyman 450 to .430" dia. If the alloy is soft i also tumble lube with Xlox for extra protecton. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_Alloy_20090610_1.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Alloy_20090610_1.jpg) http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_Alloy_20090610_2.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Alloy_20090610_2.jpg)

Leftoverdj
10-17-2009, 06:44 PM
Just curious, how fast do you have to push a 340 gr. or 405 gr. boolit out of a 45/70 or a 265 gr. or 300 gr. boolit out of a 44 mag before it becomes more than a plinker load?


Jack, I ain't so good a judge of range and lead as to want to handicap myself when I go hunting. For that use, I want all the velocity I can reasonably get to flatten the trajectory and shorten the air time. That means GC bullets for that use.

Now, over 90% of my shooting is done at stationary targets at known ranges. I happily use PB bullets at .22 lr velocities for that. In a pinch, I could grab a box of that ammo, accept its limitations and go hunting. It'll certainly kill a deer, but it would also reduce the number of shots that I'd be willing to take.

I ain't pinched that bad. I can go to a GC bullet and get 1700 fps pretty easy, so that's what I do.

44man
10-17-2009, 11:46 PM
I have to admit that even though I love the .475, the .44 is just about as good as you can get.
The only thing you do not want is a super fast expanding boolit or bullet. All you need is a nice meplat and it can be hard or softer as long as you have accuracy.
You do not need max velocity and the gun will do a job on any deer or animal from 1200 to about 1350 fps as long as it is accurate enough to hit where aimed. Less velocity will also work on deer but I find accuracy falls off too much.
Anyway, I want as much accuracy as I can get and ignore velocity because confidence is more important so the boolit hits to the sights even if I am off a little.
Trajectory means nothing because with any boolit there is only an inch or a tad more from 50 to 100 yards.(Depending on boolit weight) Sighted at 75 and anything from 10 yards to 100 is dead no matter what boolit you use.
The .44 is a great caliber and it WILL shoot a PB boolit at any velocity the gun is capable of. If the boolit needs to be harder, don't worry, it will thump what you shoot.