Youth gun/load help

[Jeffery8mm]

I have a daughter that is 8 yrs old. She has been shooting .22 with me for 2 years now. She is a pretty good shot!! She has hunted deer with me for a few years. She has shown interest in shotting one this year. I have a 44mag handi rifle that is on a youth stock. I loaded some 44spl loads up in mag brass. Unique loads with a Lee 240gr TL boolit. She shoots this but is not anxious to shoot it alot!!
Would a .223 be a better choice as far as recoil?? I like the 240gr boolit better than a .64 gr. I fell like the 44 rifle would be good as long as the speed is around 950pfs or up. I did buy a slip on recoil pad for her.
Any thought/opinions??
Thanks
Jeff

[Throckmorton]

I'd say get some 185 grain boolits for practicing,they should recoil a bit less than the 240's,then graduate to the heavies.
handi is usually very barrel heavy,not what I'd start an 8 year old on for carrying and shooting from a standing position.
shooting from a bench seems to exxagerate recoil most times,to me at least.The ligher boolit should make a difference there at least.

[Wayne Smith]

Is the .223 legal for deer there? Around here it's not even an option. Personally I'd find a 30-30 or a 7-08 on a youth stock and try her on that.

[Jeffery8mm]

.223 is legal. Just dont like it!!
She is only shooting from the bench right now. If she does get a shot at a deer this year, it will be from a shoothouse. So there will be a rest there in the form of a window.
I may try some lead/shot inthe stock
Jeff

[carpetman]

You are going to hear many times that even a .243 is marginal at best. If used you have to use premium bullets. Now a .223 on deer???? What a ridiculous notion. Ridiculous on all deer that read the internet. For those that don't read the internet it works fine---with jacketed bullets---wouldn't try it with cast. 55 grain seems to be the one. It's more important that your daughter be comfortable with what she is shooting and able to put the bullet where she wants it---than a bad shot with a bigger one. Had more than just a little experience in this area. As for premium bullets---the Winchester bulk packed--the Remington Core Loks seem to be premium.

[HORNET]

Had you thought about maybe a barrel in .357 Mag ? Let her practice with powder-puff .38 wadcutter loads and run up some hot .357's for serious (or even ream out to .357 MAX)?

[257 Shooter]

My Son got his start on deer with a 22 Hornet and then moved up to a 223. You can never have enough Handi Rifle Barrels can you? As Carpetman said comfort and shot placement are much more important.

[southpaw]

It doesn't matter much which one you go with just make sure that you work her up to it slowly. Don't try to rush things. If she isn't ready for the heavier faster boolits/bullets she will start to develop bad habits. If you go with the 223 I would try barnes tsx bullets. They are not that much and you wont shoot that many in a year any way. It has been said before but shot placement is vital. Which ever she is most comfortable shooting is what I would go with. Oh and congrats on having a daughter that likes to shoot and is a pretty good shot!!!

Jerry Jr.

[runfiverun]

i'd ask her, the gun might just be uncomfortable.
too long,the wrong color,she's a girl. [ i spent 800 bux on a 6mm rem .because she had to have it ,then she didin't like the trigger]
you can down load a 308 but it's hard to upload a 223.

[AZ-Stew]

Using a slip-on recoil pad on an adult size rifle stock WILL make the length of pull too long for an 8-year-old. It is likely too long WITHOUT the pad. She will never get a good hold or sight picture.

The 185 grain bullet idea is a good one. My wife qualified for her DCM (back then) Garand using a 30-06 load in my Garand that fired a 125gr bullet, purely for the sake of recoil reduction. It worked well. On the other hand, I have a Remington Model 788 bolt action .44 Magnum that kicks FAR more than I would expect it to with factory loads. I'm not recoil shy, but I'm always surprised at how much recoil this rifle produces. Try the 185s in a .44 Special loading. There should be plenty of power for deer and the gun shouldn't beat her up.

Also, make sure that stock fits her. That will also make a difference in felt recoil.

Regards,

Stew

[Jeffery8mm]

Good suggestions guys. This IS a Handi in a YOUTH stock. I put some shot in teh stock. Got a gob bit in there. 1 1/4 lbs. As stated earlier. she IS NOT carrying this in the wooods. We are in an elevated blind. I also picked up a 200gr mold. That coupled 200gr boolit with the lead in the stock may be just the ticked. She really likes this little rifle as far as looks. She is also like her ole dad, LONG armed!!
Jeff

[garandsrus]

Jeff,

You should be good to go... You can tailor the 200gr load to get an appropriate velocity for target shooting and hunting.

John

[DLCTEX]

My grandson started with a Handi Rifle in 243 and did well on deer with it. It's too late to send it for a barrel to be fit this year, but you may consider it for next year.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Almost everyone I know (my self included) shot their first deer with some sort of center fire 22. My first deer was taken with a 22-250. I know lots of guys that shot them with 223s. One guy even shoots them with a 22hornet. Oh and by the way these are chest shots, given the option I will always take a head or neck shot, but a 22 center fire is definitely capable of chest shots. I have even shot a number of wild hogs through the shoulder using my 22-250 loaded with a 36gr Barnes Varmint Grenade. Some guys used to give me flak about using a 22-250 on game bigger then squirrels, but I have shot enough deer and hogs to shut them up.

As far as a good gun for your daughter to shoot deer with, have her use one that she shoots best. Maybe your daughter is different, but most youths seem bothered by report almost as much as recoil, so a 44special might be better then a 223.

[Jeffery8mm]

The report is not to bad, specially with the ear plugs and muffs together
Jeff

[lylejb]

+1 on 30-30

Can be loaded down as far as needed, the (about) 10gr unique load has little recoil and mild report.
30-30 sure has taken plenty of deer over the last 100 years or so.

[Blackwater]

As W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell proved, you don't HAVE to use 5,000+ lbs. of energy to put down elephant. You also don't have to shoot 1,000 ft. lbs to kill whitetailed deer either. As Bell proved, it's where you hit them, provided only that your bullet will reach and damage the vitals.

The 53 gr. Barnes TSX bullet has actually made the little .223 an HONEST "deer rifle." Many have been killed with regular 55 gr. SP's, but friends have also had them fail, both in the .223 and the .22/.250. I don't know anyone who's used the TSX bullet on deer and had bad results. They seem to almost always place the bullets pretty darn well on deer, and combined with the solid copper bullet's ability to penetrate even the shoulder blade, and still git'r done, that's what I've chosen for my grandson, who's 10.

However, if I had that .44 you do, I'd load some 200 gr. RNFP's to about 1100 fps, and go ahead out there in complete confidence that any problems encountered would NOT come from the gun or load. That's about what the old .44/40 the old timers used puts out, and hey killed one whale of a lot of game with it. I personally like my '06's and .270's and .308's, but I don't kid myself that they're really necessary, except for a longer, flatter trajectory. Funny thing is, all the places I've got to hunt now would be unlikely to produce much more than a 100 yd. shot. Ain't it funny how that works?

[geargnasher]

Jeffrey, I've got a safe full of middleweight sporter rifles but I still reach for my Swedish Mauser (sporterized and tuned) when I go deer hunting. Primary reason is I can put a bullet in a deer's brain pan EVERY time out to 200 yards if conditions are good (and I won't take the shot if they aren't) and that confidence gives me the warm fuzzies I don't have with any of my other guns. The second reason is the very mild report from the gun and almost no recoil. I'm not lobbying to get your daughter a 6.5X55, just reiterating what has been said about comfort, confidence, and bullet placement on target. That 200 gr. in the .44 loaded up right ought to be just right! Personally, I would steer clear of the .223 or any of the "high powered" bottlenecks for her just yet.

Good luck, I wish you both the best this season!

Gear

[stubshaft]

Get her a .223. She will enjoy shooting it alot more. The other half and my niece won't let me sell mine because they like shooting it so much. If and when she decides she wants to harvest a deer she can always use your .44

[carpetman]

Jeffery8mm---A shoothouse? Do they keep toilet paper in it by chance?

[Blammer]

If it were me, I'd get the 223.

The 223 with plinkers for practice is good.

The 223 with the Win PP 64gr will flatten deer at a full house load and the recoil with the wt in the stock will be just the ticket! I've seen the win 64gr at work on two deer and I was quite impressed. I think it would be a great choice given that you'll likely be shooting calm deer at known distances and shooting from a good rest and taking your time. I don't see how you could fail at haveing a good time and bagging a deer to boot.

If you need, I have some light wt 44 cal boolits I could send you some to try if you want to go light wt in the 44 mag. I also believe that the 200gr 44 cal will do a number on deer, even at moderate velocity.

[Jeffery8mm]

Jeffery8mm---A shoothouse? Do they keep toilet paper in it by chance?

When you have a wife and a daughter that likes to go to the woods with you; you BETTER have some toilet paper with you. ;)
Shoothouse, elevated shooting stand, box blind, whatever you call them, the older I get, the better I like them!!!!!

I think the 44mag loaded with the 200gr cast at starting level is what we are gonna try. I did put some shot in the stock for a little extra weight!
Thanks to all of you!!!!
Jeff

[1Shirt]

Many many years ago, pre 223, I took a rather nice buck in Washington state with a 222 at about 125 yds give or take a yard or so. One shot between the eye and ear. Remember it was a 55gr. Hor, and over BL-C, but can't remember load. Rifle was a little 340 Sav. and a 4x Weaver, and it was close to an MOA rifle and the rifle was rested or I wouldn't have taken the shot. If I were going to shoot deer with a 223, by choice it would be with a Sav with a 1x9 twist, and would be using a 60-70 gr. bullet. As so many others have stated, it is shot placement that is the key. Good luck with the youngster. My grand daughter took her first deer at 12 with a 308. The more practice the young ones get the better.
1Shirt!:coffee: