RCBS Lubamatic II Questions

[ggresham]

I'm sizing Lyman Postell .458 bullets cast in 1:20. The effort on the up (or ejection) stroke is about 3-4 times greater than the down (sizing) stroke. If feels as if something is sticking down at the bottom. Once I get it broken loose it comes up pretty easily. I called customer service at RCBS and got a goober that didn't seem to even know what product I was talking about. His recommendation was to clean it "down there". Is this typical for this machine?

Gil

[Maven]

Gil, Just a wild guess here, but could the problem be a sizing die fouled with alloy and/or gilding metal (gas check) particles? Also, if it's an RCBS die, it may not be as finely finished as the Lymans and may be snagging your CB's as you push them through. If so, you can polish the interior with very fine lapping compound.

[montana_charlie]

The effort on the up (or ejection) stroke is about 3-4 times greater than the down (sizing) stroke. If feels as if something is sticking down at the bottom.
So...did you take their advice, and clean it?

How does that tool feel when you operate it with no bullet?
If it still has a hitch in it's giddyup, you need to hire a spotter with a magnifying glass to watch it while you work it.

If it only happens with a bullet loaded, it might have something to do with 'suction' that is made possible only when the grooves are full of lube.

BTW...judging from your 'handle', you must be the next recipient of the PGT loaner mould that I have now.
CM

[ggresham]

Thanks guys..
No, its not gas checks...don't use them. Its a Lyman die and clean.

Montana Charlie, tell me more about the suction. That's exactly what it feels like but I never thought of suction as a cause. What is the fix or is there one?

Looking forward to getting the PGT mould. When do you think you might ship it?

Gil

[montana_charlie]

Montana Charlie, tell me more about the suction. That's exactly what it feels like but I never thought of suction as a cause. What is the fix or is there one?
That was mostly a WAG on my part. I envisioned you pushing a naked bulet down in the die, then after filling the grooves the resistance coming back up would feel kinda like pulling your foot out of deep mud. I don't get that feel from my Lyman 45, but I can't say that I ever tried to detect it.

That 'feeling' might be even more noticeable if you are using a large die to lube in, while not trying to resize the bullet. It would go down real easy, and be 'tighter' coming back out.

I'm not sure there is a 'fix' for something that I imagine is a 'normal' feeling.

Only you can decide if there is an actual problem that needs correction.


Looking forward to getting the PGT mould. When do you think you might ship it?
Well, I got it late in the day on April 21st, so I was planning to use it for all of my ten days, and send it out on April 31st. But, I'm havin' some trouble finding out what day April 31st falls on this year...so I might have to wait till next year.

Seriously speaking...
I think I'll have all of the bullets I need for testing after one more casting session.
There is a good chance I'll put it in the mail on Friday or Saturday. I'll only keep it till Monday if something comes up and I can't get to town. I will email you and Dick Trenk as soon as it's gone.

This is the second PGT loaner I have had. The first one was damaged beyond use, and the last guy was supposed to send it to Dick...but he sent it to me. I had to keep it over the weekend, so I did open the box to look at it, but then mailed it in.

This one has also seen some rough handling, but it still casts pretty bullets. The 'damage' causes a tiny tit of lead on the bottom edge of the base, right at the seam. The corner of the cavity has a tiny flat spot in that location.
It's so small I didn't even see it when cleaning the blocks. But the first bullet showed me where it was.

I have been trimming the tits off with a straight razor, and the bases look very good. It is sort of a PITA, but it does make you look at each bullet.

The only other problem is the wood grips keep trying to come off of the handles.
But it beats holding the blocks in your hands.

You'll also notice that some numbskull thought a brass hammer was the right tool to dislodge sticky bullets. The right block shows the battering, but the interior is still OK.

Once you make about eleven bullets, you will want a Victory mould...even if your rifle doesn't like this particular design.
CM

[ggresham]

Charlie its good to be aware of the condition of the mould and things to look out for. What rifle are you shooting the bullets in and how are they working for you?

The pressure on the upward stroke of the LAM II is pretty heavy. Makes your arm real tired. Right now I'm sizing a Lyman Postell that I think is supposed to be .458 in a .458 die. I don't think its really .458 and I know damn well it ain't round. I have been using a .460 die just to get the lube on with. I just got a Browning and the cartridges I had loaded for my Uberti Highwall didn't want to chamber so well. I think the Uberti must have a looser chamber or throat than the Brng. Anyway the rifling was engraving the bullets pretty heavily when I forced them in and closed the action.

Being from Montana, are you going to the Quigley shoot in June? If so maybe we can get together.

Thanks for the help.

Gil

[montana_charlie]

What rifle are you shooting the bullets in and how are they working for you?
My rifle is a .45-90 Pedersoli Sharps. I haven't even loaded one, much fired any.
The bullet I'm currently trying to get to shoot is a Paul Jones Creedmoor 560 from an NEI mould. After that, I'll start on the PGT. (I just finished casting with that mould tonight.)
I have 300 bullets evenly split between 30 to 1 and 20 to 1 alloy. That should be enough to show me it can shoot...if it can.


The pressure on the upward stroke of the LAM II is pretty heavy. Makes your arm real tired.
That sounds pretty extreme. Maybe bad enough to make me agree that there's something wrong with your outfit or your 'style'.

I just read the instructions for your unit on the RCBS site, and I think maybe you are getting ahead of the lube flow. Crank a little more frequently on the wrench and see if that makes a difference.

Right now I'm sizing a Lyman Postell that I think is supposed to be .458 in a .458 die. I don't think its really .458 and I know damn well it ain't round.
Can't you measure those bullets? Where'd they come from? If you bought 'em pre-cast, they might be .459. I know Buffalo Arms sells that bullet in both diameters.

Another thing...I don't know about RCBS, but Lyman sizer dies that say .459 on 'em are really .458 inside. Maybe your .458 die is closer to .457.

I think the Uberti must have a looser chamber or throat than the Brng. Anyway the rifling was engraving the bullets pretty heavily when I forced them in and closed the action.
Possible... A chamber cast is a good way to find out what's what.

Being from Montana, are you going to the Quigley shoot in June?
No plans to attend...I'll be tied up with my irrigation about then.
CM

[omgb]

I've got a pedersoli sharps too. It will shoot and it will shoot as well if not better than a Shiloh or a C Sharps or any other Sharps replica you can name. The wood and the fit and finish are not as nice but then the price is less too. It is my opinion, based on my shooting experience, that Pedersoli barrels are about as good as one can get.

As a word of advice from an experienced shooter, if your bullets are engraving the rifeling now when the barrel is unfouled, chances are you will not be able to chamber a round after fireing the first or second shot. You will need to wipe the bore with a damp patch followed by a dry one.

It would be better if the bullet was just shy of engraving the rifleing. That will make chambering much easier. Your best accurace with BP will come with the bullet somewhere between touching the rifleing and a few thousandths short.

I cast my bullets at .460 and size them the same. Actually, the sizer just serves to apply the lube. When I size to .458 or .459, I get leading. At .460 I get zero to no leading and excellent MOA accuracy. If it is taking any effort at all to raise the lubesizer handle, the die is too tight and you need to go up at least .001 and most likely .002" in diameter.

My gun seems to do as well with 1-20 as it does with 1-30. It leads badly with WW unless I'm shooting smokeless. Go figure.

Any way, that's my experience. If you have the chance to try out White Lightning Lube from Dan Theodore, do so. It really is the ticket for hot, dry weather and for bullets with small lube grooves.

R J Talley
Formerly of Great Falls, Lewistown and Bozeman but now exhiled to the PRK

[omgb]

The afore mentioned advice was for any newbies reading this. I inadvertanly mixed comments for the guy having trouble with his sizer with comments about my satisfaction with my Pedersoli Sharps and it sounded rather boorish and "know-it_all" ish. Sorry about that. I'm writing this while riding herd over a homeroom full of high school juniors about to embark on a Spirit Day and all of the assorted activities. the "Chaos" factor is off the scale and I'm not comminicating as clearly as I would like.
Still trapped in the PRK

[9.3X62AL]

GG--

I've only had this problem you describe with a couple boolit designs and dies, all of them being .40"+ caliber and either gas-checked or thick-based boolits. My guess at the difficulty is the boolit base or gas check position relative to one of the lube apertures, because when I move the depth adjustment up or down the problem lessens noticeably. I haven't tried honing out or polishing the chief offender (a Lyman .459" H&I die), because with my usual alloy (92/6/2) the boolits emerge just a gnat's chinwhisker over .459", right where they need to be for the Ruger #1 I have in 45-70.

[StarMetal]

Deputy Al made me think about the suction idea. I don't think that is and here is why. First the luber is under pressure and I seriously doubt that even if you stopped cranking on the pressure lever that there is still lube pressure to a small degree there. Even if the lube pressure was zero and there was that much of a suction it would draw lube into the sizer die.....so I don't think it's suction. Deputy Al's theory sound pretty good too. Another think is when you reach the bottom of the sizing stroke the bullet is at a stand still. I think too, even if the sizer die bore is smooth and not gaulded up with lead, that there is a beginning friction to overcome on the up stroke. This would be more pronounced with larger calibers simply for the fact that they have a larger bearing surface.

Joe

[ggresham]

Thanks for the comments...All good

OMGB I can relate to your chaos. One of our children has just moved his family to a home down the road and he and his wife work out of town making them late getting home in the evening. My wife and I have become "full time grandparents" with the attendant school events and sports practices and games for a 4th grader and a kindergartner. After going for about 20 years never thinking about school this has come as a shock.

StarMetal yes there is enough lube pressure to partially lube a second bullet without cranking additional lube in.

MC, I cast the bullets myself with a lyman mould 457132 and my caliper shows a different diameter as I turn the bullet.

Anyway I think I will fiddle with the depth setting and change the die to see if that makes a difference. I just posted this in the hopes that someone could respond that "thats the way they all are" or "I had the same problem and cured it by....."

Later,
Gil

[montana_charlie]

I just got a Browning and the cartridges I had loaded for my Uberti Highwall didn't want to chamber so well.
Your Browning may choke a little on those PGT bullets, too, Gil.

I don't know what the diameter of the Postell is up in the bore riding section, but the PGT is a full .450.
You may have to snuggle 'em down in the case a bit for the Browning to eat 'em.
CM

[Leftoverdj]

This has come up before. It's possible to apply enough pressure at the bottom of the stroke to extrude lead into the lube holes of the die. Less force on the handle and breaking the edges of the inside of the holes are the recommended cures.

Never happened to me, so I can't say for sure.

[MGySgt]

I had the same problems with some bullets I got from Creeker. They actually stuck in the die and I had to beat them out.

I took some 800 grit wet dry sand paper and a split wood dowel and made a tight fit in the die. Turned with a low speed drill for about 15 to 20 seconds. Cleaned die and no more problems with stuck bullets. Size different - Couldn't tell if there was any. It just put a nice polish on the in side of the die.

45/90's - I have 2. If you are shooting BP pressures in Star Line brass you need to anneal the brass. It is thick at the neck and hard. Groups shrunk from 2 plus to MOA with annealing them.

Just my Humble opinion.

Drew