.41 Magnum Medium load

[Wally]

I have a S & W M-57 with the 8" barrel. I just acquired a new Lee #90330 bullet mold (195 SWC). My idea was to try it out with 8.0 Grains of Unique for an estimated velocity of 1,000 FPS... Casting with WW metal the bullet weighs in at just under 210 grains and measures .411~.412" "as cast". Was wondering if anyone else has tried this bullet/load in their M 57 and what results they've had. Last month I tried it with 6.0 grains of Bullseye and obtained a 981 Avg velocity with a Std Deviation of just 11.0 but the accuracy was absolutely terrible, espcially past 25 yards...

[felix]

Try 5 grains. Or, use small pistol primers, using primer converter rings inside the pockets. ... felix

[GLynn41]

Bulleye builds pressure fast it is very spikey as to pressure-- and this can adversly effect accuracy-- so lowering might help but Bulls-eye also does not use much space and this too can be a problem -- be careful with it -- more than one has double charged with it-- I witnessed a friend blow up a Super Blackhawk with an over charge -- way over- as to medium loads your unique, Herco, 800x etc all work very well at 7 gr for nice pop and plink load-- good shooting

[Wally]

I was thinking the same thing---the pressure build up was too fast to allow the bullet to provide good accuracy. But going with a lighter charge and you fill less of the case. I have used W-231 with this bullet and it has help improve th eaccuracy.

I do charge all my cases and place in a loading block then I inspect with a flashlight to be sure all are charged and at the same level. Also, I wiite down the calibration on the powder measure to be sure the charge is right after confirmning with a powder scale---many often misread the scale reading when using a beam scale. When charging powder, it is a good idea to be a bit paranoid IMHO.

With Bottle necked cases I have the primed casees all in one loading block neck down...you take one from the loading block, charge them then place in another loading block, on the right.

[Whitespider]

8.0 - 10.0 grains SR4756 (adjust charge as need for the targeted velocity) and the Federal #150 primer.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I've used 5.6grs of W231 and 6.5grs of W231 with 210-220gr SWCs for mid-range loads in my 4" M-57. Haven't chronoed them, but they're easy-shooting and accurate.

[AZ-Stew]

6.7 gr IMR 7625 (gray label/can), std. LP primer. 900 fps (may be faster in your gun due to extra barrel length), accurate and the cases will just fall out of the cylinder after firing.

Regards,

Stew

[runfiverun]

i am using 8 grs 800-x which is a tad slower than unique in my 41 with a 200 swc and both of my 41's like it.
it's right on the verge of being a handfull but with good accuracy.
so the unique should work too but i'd back it down a tad to start.

[Onty]

8.0 - 10.0 grains SR4756 (adjust charge as need for the targeted velocity) and the Federal #150 primer.

...and it's single base powder. After examining two revolvers using nothing but double base powders, and after having conversation with silhouette shooter who almost ruined forcing cone on his FA353, no double base powders in my guns.

On top of that, if you double charge SR4756, you see immediately that something isn't right.

[Leftoverdj]

I don't think the classic charge of 7.5 or 8.0 grains of Unique has much room for improvement. It's a bit hefty for target work. but accuracy has always suffered for me when I have tried to reduce the velocity.

[Rocky Raab]

What leftoverdj says is spot on - and the reason many of us make 41 Specials. Reduced loads in a magnum cases are ballistically inconsistent.

That said, 1000 fps isn't much of a reduction. I do agree that using a slightly slower powder would be vastly superior to fast-burners like Bullseye. In addition to the powders suggested above, a couple of excellent ones are Blue Dot and Solo 1250. The latter is my favorite as it is extremely clean burning, measures well and is a single-base powder.

[Mavrick]

I'm not sure, exactly, what the Lee boolit looks like, but it sounds quite similar to the RCBS that I use. The RCBS uses a single, round-bottomed lube-groove...does the Lee? I've not had good luck with the Lee with several shallow grooves, maybe because mine is a 240gr slug(that's a good word for it-IMHO, FWIW
Anyway, you say that "as cast" is .412... Are you shooting the that way, or resizing to something smaller? I just ordered a .413 lube-die and it should be here in a couple days, but I did try some hand-lubed, as-cast to see what would happen.
My guns are an M58 4" and an M57 6" and neither has been modified for cast boolit use...yet. I asked Buckshot to hollow-point my RCBS mold, and my groups shrank by 1/2, when I sized to .410. "As cast" with Lars BAC, they shrank again by 1/2. I got curious and tried the other side of the mold(non-hollowpointed) lubed with Lars Red Carnuba, and the groups were the same as the HP @ .410.
The boolits are WW with about 2% tin added to cast easier. The loads were with Red Dot, 700X, Scot S1000, and Pearl. The velocities were 1000-1100fps, from the 4''. When I used Unique, 800X, and Herco, the velocities went to 1200-1300fps, and the accuracy went out the window, as it usually does in my guns. I didn't use Bullseye, the last few times out, but I usually do, and WILL the next time.
If you think you'd like to "tone down" a little, you might try RP 2 1/2 primers, instead of the more powerful CCI 300's or Federal 150's-IMHO.
Have fun,
Gene

[Wally]

I also have the RCBS 210 SWC bullet mold. I like the Lee mold as it is easier to use (be lighter) and it produces good bullets. The Lee # 90330 (195 SWC-SWC) has two small grease grooves that I find are more than adequate for lighter, medoum loads. I just sized & lubed 600 of them and they use little lube, far less than the RCBS. I use straight WW metal and they cast out at .411~.412"--I size them to .410".

Also have the 240 grain Lee SWC mold---it was a great bullet for the .41 Mag, but the high cost of lead has made me go back to the smaller bullet.

[GLynn41]

for what ever this worth --

i am using 8 grs 800-x which is a tad slower than unique in my 41 with a 200 swc and both of my 41's like it.

I have had very good results with both boolits and bullets with this powder--you can go down to at least 6 gr and up to 12-13 with standard weights--210/230 gr or to 15 or so with the light 170 --which is hard on deer--for a long time all I used was 800x

[AZ-Stew]

What leftoverdj says is spot on - and the reason many of us make 41 Specials. Reduced loads in a magnum cases are ballistically inconsistent.

This is why I use 7625 in my .41. My 6.7 gr load fills the full-length Magnum case to the base of the 410459 Lyman Keith-style boolit. Unique doesn't fill the case as well. I tried it, but found better accuracy with 7625.

Regards,

Stew

[Rocky Raab]

That's an excellent practice, Stew. But there's more than load density to consider when speaking of ballistic consistency. Light loads in big cases tend to produce wide extreme spreads, large standard deviations of velocity and (often) poor accuracy. The reason is that the large case volume lowers peak pressure. If a given powder cannot reach its design pressure, it will burn erratically - no matter how much of the case it takes up in an unfired condition. A smaller case volume allows the pressure to peak quicker and the powder to burn more completely; thus more consistently. By the time the bullet moves very far (even before it leaves the case with many handgun rounds) pressure has peaked.

[Mavrick]

Another powder that works, but at a slightly lower velocity range is Cherrios( Trail Boss) It fills the case, and is easy to ignite. The velocities of the loads I've used are very consistent. It's better with the light boolits. I'm impressed with the accuracy.
There are quite a few ideas that could be tried...Too bad you'll have to do so much shooting to find anything out!
Have fun,
Gene

[AZ-Stew]

Rocky,

I got called to supper last evening before I got a chance to answer this.

The load came from experimentation based on loads listed in the old, tan, Dupont load pamphlet that was a handout at gun stores back in the 70s and 80s. After working with Unique and a couple of other powders, I was pleased to find that 7625 was more accurate with this load and I suspect that part of the reason is that it fills the case well, promoting consistent ignition. It's a low pressure load, as are 12ga shotshell loads using this powder. The 12ga loads develop velocities consistent with similar loads using other powders, but at lower pressures. It's the nature of this powder. The only "complaint" I have with the .41 load is that the cases usually get smoked and coated with boolit lube which works its way back around the case due to the low pressure not jamming the cases against the chamber walls. I've shot tens of thousands of these since the mid 70s and that's the only downside I can find with them. They're accurate at 75+ yards. I've killed jackrabbits with them at that distance. I've head-shot tree squirrels (that were up in trees) with them. Velocities are consistent. I don't know how I'd judge ballistic efficiency/consistency beyond those criteria.

I also have ".41 Special" cartridges made up so I can use the 410459 boolit in my Taurus titanium Tracker. The boolit noses extend beyond the cylinder face if Magnum cases are used. The same load I use in the Magnum cases works well and similarly in the short brass.

Those who want to use Unique are welcome to it, but my guns prefer 7625. As they say, YMMV. :drinks:

Regards,

Stew

[AZ-Stew]

Now that I think of it, 7625 has another use on my loading bench. I forgot to mention that I use it for squirrel loads in the .223 cartridge, using the Hornady 50gr SX bullet and CCI small rifle primers, fired from my Remington 788 bolt gun. 6.0 grains develops 1700-1800 fps and will shoot one-hole groups at 50 yards. If you try this, be sure to check the bore after each shot to be sure a bullet has not stuck in the bore. I've never had it happen, but this is a relatively light load for a jacketed bullet. The SX bullet's skin is thin, so it doesn't present as much resistance as a thicker jacketed bullet would. I developed a number of these loads in different cartridges for an article I had published in Handloader #157, titled, "Petite Loads For Squirrels". None of the loads listed in that article use fillers or case-filling powders, but all are accurate and "ballistically consistent/efficient."

Regards,

Stew

[Onty]

… After working with Unique and a couple of other powders, I was pleased to find that 7625 was more accurate with this load and I suspect that part of the reason is that it fills the case well, promoting consistent ignition. … The only "complaint" I have with the .41 load is that the cases usually get smoked and coated with boolit lube which works its way back around the case due to the low pressure not jamming the cases against the chamber walls. I've shot tens of thousands of these since the mid 70s and that's the only downside I can find with them…

I always consider as ideal load one that fills the case right up to bullet.

As for smoked cases; anybody tried IMR PB powder http://www.imrpowder.com/pb.html , this one suppose to be very clean? How it flows through powder measure?

[AZ-Stew]

When I started handloading 12ga I started with PB. I think I used it in .45 ACP, and probably used it in the .41 before discovering 7625. I don't remember anything remarkable about it other than it worked as expected in loads listed in data available in the 70s. Doesn't stand out as an exceptionally great powder, nor does it fail as an exceptionally bad powder. It just works if you follow the recipes in the manuals.

Regards,

Stew

[azrednek]

Try 5 grains. Or, use small pistol primers, using primer converter rings inside the pockets. ... felix

Wally I haven't used the converters but the 5 gr load of Bullseye works best for me shooting three different button nosed wad cutters, varying in weight from apx 170-215. I normally punch paper at 25 yards sometimes 30 so I can't vouch for any longer distances. My accuracy improved by sizing to .410 with the Lee castings that were dropping apx .412+. I slugged my 57's cylinder mouths and got a nearly perfect .410.

A friend's 41 mag Ruger seemed to prefer the unsized, shot as cast that were dropped from an old Lee mold. Didn't do any measurements on his Ruger but I assume the cylinder mouths were probably larger than my Model 57. I suggest you measure the cylinder's mouths of your 41's. If you measure .410 and are launching .412's your shot to shot accuracy will likely never be anything to brag about.

[ralphtaff]

Mavrick, HOW MANY GRAINS of powder(trailboss) did you use for the 195 grain cast boolet?

[41magfan]

Ralphtaff, I'm loading 5.5 gns of trail boss under a 215 swc. Nice plinking load.

[Heavy lead]

I guess while not a plinkng load 8.5 grains of Unique under a 230 Keith or a 230 gain LFN with a Federal 150 works great in 3 different 657's for me, I size to .410 as the throats in all of them are .4095 to .410. I used 7.5 grains, 8 was better and 8.5 great. Very clean at the higher load, this is right at maximum according to the data I have and out of my 6" it runs pretty close to 1100 fps, not a plinker, but not a wrist breaker either.

[fredj338]

I don't think the classic charge of 7.5 or 8.0 grains of Unique has much room for improvement. It's a bit hefty for target work. but accuracy has always suffered for me when I have tried to reduce the velocity.

I have to agree. If it won;t shoot lead buletls o/ 7-8gr of Unique, it's you or the gun.:-P

[peerlesscowboy]

.41 magnum, Lyman 410459, cci 300, 8gr Unique, 1055 fps, "nice accurate mild load"..........I'm reading right out of my little black notebook.

John C. Saubak

[crowbeaner]

I have Lyman 41032, 410459, and RCBS 41-210-swc moulds. I shot thousands of these over 10.0 of SR4756 and standard primers in my 57s. 1000 fps and superb accuracy. I sized them to .410" because I couldn't find a sizer die in .411". CB.

[Tedak]

I load the 410-195SWC over 6.5gr Trailboss (845fps), or 8.5gr Unique (1065fps) through my .41's. Those velocities are through a 6" M657 and they group as good as I can shoot them offhand at 25 yds (4" or less). If I reduce that Unique load, groups start to open up, so that's it for me.

I haven't yet found a loading that lets me shoot this same boolit with acceptable, sandbagged groups at 50 yds. By acceptable, I mean 4" to 6" max. The TB load is way out to lunch at this distance, as I can barely keep a cylinder-full on an 8.5"x11" sheet of paper.