35 winchester

[fiatmom]

Does any one have a load for 35 winchester (35WCF). I would like to shoot cast boolits , it is a lot more affordable. The powders I prefer for reduced loads are Unique, 4198, and 5744.
Thanks

[arcticbreeze]

What Boolits will you be using?

[fiatmom]

That is a good question. Probably the Lyman 35 cal 518315. There don't seem to be many choices.
Could I use a pistiol boolit of 158 grains? It may be too short for the riflle throat.

[405]

Quite a forgotten cartridge! Second only, in my opinion, to the 405 in the venerable Win 95.
Haven't shot my Win 95 in 35 WCF in quite a while.... too many irons (long irons :)) in the fire. My rifle has the Lyman 21 peep sight.

Looked in my load log book and found the following data (paraphrased):

RCBS 200 gr. GC bullet at about 12 BHN sized to .359. No crimp used for mild loads in the box magazine.

RCBS 200 GC- 12 gr. Unique and 15 gr. Unique. Both loads shoot to about the same POI at 50 yards. Both loads mild and accurate. .5"-1" cluster at 50 yds.

RCBS 200 GC- 5744 22 gr. Load mild and accurate. .5"-1" cluster at 50 yds.

Other Powders I tried and found to not work the best for me with cast loads in the 35 were 4227 and Rel #7. Didn't pursue these any further or try other potentially useful powders.

By far the most accurate full power load I found was a Jbullet load.
225 gr. Sierra Game King over 42 gr. of Viht. N140. It showed no excess pressure signs in my gun. Since this is a much more energetic load approach with customary caution using the "starting load and work up" method. In another strong, good condition Win 95 I'd start at about 37 gr. N140 and work up.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, Source for these loadings is an old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets.

For Lyman #358315 200 grain
4759 17 grains 1550 fps
4198 27 grains 1700 fps
3031 33 grains 1680 fps
4064 35 grains 1730 fps
unique 12 grains 1450 fps

For Lyman#358318 250 grain

4759 20 grains 1600 fps
4198 25 grains 1550 fps
4895 40 grains 1950 fps
3031 34 grains 1675fps
4064 36 grains 1720fps
4320 17 grains 1550fps

There are probably more of the modern powders that would work as well. LLS

[405]

That is a good question. Probably the Lyman 35 cal 518315. There don't seem to be many choices.
Could I use a pistiol boolit of 158 grains? It may be too short for the riflle throat.

Since I haven't messed with the 35 Win in a couple of years it took me a while to think about why I haven't. You're exactly right about not too many cast bullet choices out there that do the big 35 WCF justice. Many are compromise designs for tube magazine lever guns. As with the other Win 95 chamberings, no need for a big wide meplat bullet. The original factory Jbullets for the 95s tended to have longer roundnose designs for better ballistics along with the recent development of the much more powerful smokeless/Jbullet loads. One of these days I'll sit down on the Mountain Molds site and work up a mold for the right bullet for this cartridge. I did that for the Win 95 in 405 but have put off doing it for the 35. The second part of your? is about pistol bullets. Yes, no problem. I've shot some with regular 158 .358 bullets and results are about as expected. Not bad, not great. Small charge of Unique works fine. Best for shorter range... so called plinking.

Have looked at the current group buy mold thru NOE for the 280 gr. 35 cal RN bullet. It's a tempting possibility but the short neck (.3") in the 35 WCF may require a slightly different shank design to work the very best in the 35 WCF. On the other hand the fairly fast twist in the 35 at about 1:12 would surely stabilize the 280 grainer. But it may require some load development/powder experimentation with cast for best results. To reach even a 230+ grain weight and still support the nose for best accuracy may require a bore riding design. In turn that would require an accurate chamber/throat cast or slug for exact measurements. On top of all that.... for the Win 95, the magazine length restricts Max length to 3.15-3.20".
Oh my such uncertainty... now I remember why I put this off :mrgreen:

[fiatmom]

Would 280 grains be to heavy?

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Excellent data and advice by 405. My manual that lists the 35 also shows a maximum OAL pf 3.15--3.20. The difference between a 250 grain bullet and a 280 would probably not be reflected in the seating depth to crowd that significantly. a bullet of that weight would certainly be stabilized sufficiently given a twist of 1:12. It is also true that a bore-riding nose design is too be desired in the interest of best accuracy. The 358318 isn't that far off in the nose design and might be able to be "bumped" to improve it. How much depends on what 405 also suggested with regard to a slugging of what is actually needed. Lapping the nose section is also a possibility. In my 35 Whelan I am using Lyman 358009 which is a really good bore rider, but it wighs around 290 grains. Although even 10 grains heavier than the 280 bullet being considered, if the throat would accept the slight increase in length...that might be a solution. Saeco has a 245 grain bullet #352 listed in the Midway catalogue that might do well too. The shorter pistol bullets of .358 will, as already pointed out, will work at limited ranges and will definitely be easier on the shoulder. The 35 is a versatile medium bore big game cartridge, pretty much in the same league as the 35 whelan and the 348 and it can deal with hunting most anything in the western hemisphere. LLS

[405]

I'm assuming your gun is a Win 95??? The 280 gr bullet will in all probability stabilize in the 1:12 twist bore. Weight is not the problem- it's the length and design. The NOE group buy bullet appears to be a basic round nose design. You'd have to look closely at the nose diameter of that bullet then compare that to the land to land (bore)diameter in your gun and the throat length. Even if the nose diameter will fit into the lands upon chambering.... the cartridge OAL will still have to be taken into account. The magazine length limits the max OAL of the cartridge to about 3.15" in the Win 95. Now, if all that works, the mouth of the case should not go past the top of the front drive band on the bullet when the bullet is seated to correct depth to give the 3.15" max OAL. Now, if all that works, most likely the base of a heavy/long bullet will be stuck well back beyond the junction of the neck and case body..... not a good situation in my opinion. BTW, that debate got a little heated in another thread on this forum. :-( Some don't worry about such things, some do. But there is some evidence that it affects accuracy.... with cast bullets (not so much with the Jbullet). In unpredictable ways that condition can also lead to erratic pressures in extreme cases.

As far as the 35 Winchester cartridge in general. I've always felt it was designed around the then new long round nosed (or semipointed) Jbullet in the fixed length of the Win 95 single stack magazine. With the short neck (.3") it is not cast bullet friendly..... and it was never meant to be so when it was designed

I did spend some time on a bullet design program last night. The heaviest bullet I could design that would fit to greatest advantage within the 35 WCF/Win 95 parameters was one of bore riding roundnose design with a nose length of .75" and a shank length of .3" and a weight of about 225 grs. About the only way to design a heavier bullet is to make it a bore riding wadcutter OR increase the bore riding nose length OR stick the base of the bullet farther and farther down into the case. In order for the long bore rider to work well it must fit perfectly.... even that's no guarantee of best accuracy.... neither is sticking the base of a cast bullet way down into the body of a case.... at least in my experience.

$.02

[Bent Ramrod]

I've mostly used the Ideal 358318 HPGC for my 1895. 25 gr of Hercules Reloder 7 gave a 2-1/2" group at 100 yards at 1550 ft/sec. Also have used 25 gr of Vitavouri N-130 and 18 gr of SR-4759. No velocity data on these loads. Pretty much all of them will go into 3-1/4" or so at 100 yards with the buckhorn sight on the rifle.

I've meant to gin up a bunch of sub-, plinking and varmint loads with various .38 Special cast and jacketed designs but haven't had the time. I figured that the .35 would be the most versatile caliber in being able to shoot a lot of .358" diameter pistol bullets. Too many irons, as .405 says.

[rugerman1]

What brass are you using in 35 WCF? I see 30-40 comes up short and the rim on 405 brass is thicker than 35 WCF.Bertram Brass in 35 Winchester is an expensive option.Has anyone ever formed brass from 9.3x74R?