So I just got a thermometer and !!!

[HammerMTB]

I'd been toying with the idea of using a thermocouple and my DMM to get digital readout of pot temp.
I put it together yesterday and fired up the pot.
When the pot was to temp and I was crankin' out lots of good boolits, pot temp read over 800F!
I turned the pot down to 750F, and still got good fillout and boolits.
I was a bit concerned with the temp as I read (here?) that 800F is where there can be lead fumes present. I pretty much have my face right over the pot when casting.
2 things come to mind to ask:
1. What temp do you run your pot to cast?
and 2. Anybody from the Skagit Valley on here with a thermometer I could borrow and check my thermocouple? Maybe it's off a bunch.... Yondering, ya got an analog 'mometer or a cal'd TC?

[kelbro]

The thermocouple reading will not be 'off' as long as the batteries in your DMM are good. They either work or they are 'open'. A quick check is to dip the probe in an ice bath. Fill a small cup with ice and then water. Dunk the TC in and it should read 0C/32F.

[Wayne Smith]

Don't worry about 800 degrees. Yes, technically at or close to the vapor temp, but no movement unless you are breathing inches from the melt. You would have to burn your nose and face good to breathe any lead.

[HammerMTB]

The thermocouple reading will not be 'off' as long as the batteries in your DMM are good. They either work or they are 'open'. A quick check is to dip the probe in an ice bath. Fill a small cup with ice and then water. Dunk the TC in and it should read 0C/32F.

Y'know, I knew that once and completely forgot it! Thanks!
I could check it at 212F as well. Altitude here is 37' above sea level.

[yondering]

Yeah, I've got an analog thermometer, $15 from Surplus Center. Welcome to borrow it if you need.
I cast about 750-800, and just adjust the dial on the pot as necessary.
You gonna build us a couple PID temp controllers now? That would be sweet.

[thx997303]

You should do it yourself, it's quite easy.

I am going to once I have the dang money.:-|

Anybody know why the do it yourself is highlighted?

And now it's gone, site's being weird.

[lurch]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many so deathly afraid of being poisoned by their lead pot if they run it over some temperature. Folks if you run the lead pot at any reasonable casting temperature (or even well above) you don't have anything to worry about. You won't be suddenly overcome by lead fumes an go blind stupid or suffer any of the other purported consequences. The biggest reason to ventilate is not to remove lead vapors, but to remove smoke from fluxing.

Look at this chart (http://www.powerstream.com/z/vapor-press1-big.png).

Notice that the vapor pressure of lead at 1000F (538C) is less than 0.000001 (probably closer to half that or 0.0000005) atmospheres. What that is saying is that the amount of lead vapor that makes it into the air is miniscule at that temperature. What little does get into the air doesn't go far. You are far and away more likely to get lead poisoning from improper hygiene and ingestion when working with your pot than through inhalation.

[TAWILDCATT]

thank you LURCH.you made the point,very well.I was about to boil over.nobody thinks any more.they just keep on repeting old wives tales.or what some one thinks could happen.

[Freightman]

We spend most of our money and wealth trying to prevent precieved problems.

[RoyRogers]

You should do it yourself, it's quite easy.

I am going to once I have the dang money.:-|

Anybody know why the do it yourself is highlighted?

And now it's gone, site's being weird.

Look in the 'casting equipment' section in the thread titled 'electronic temp control'.

[qajaq59]

thank you LURCH.you made the point,very well.I was about to boil over.nobody thinks any more.they just keep on repeting old wives tales.or what some one thinks could happen. I used to get a bit annoyed with it, but now I just chuckle. Half the people worrying about it speed on the highways and think nothing of it. I was a newspaper printer for 22 years and we were surrounded by lead pots. We poured it, sawed it, handled it and though I've been checked on and off during the years none has ever showed up in a test. If you're going to die from something this day and age I doubt that little bit of lead you cast will have much to do with it.

[HammerMTB]

Well, Lurch, thanks for the lecture and scientific info, but it is overpowered by the unnecessary slam.
When did "a bit concerned" become "deathly afraid"?
Apparently it happened in your mind, as it did not appear on the screen until you put it there.
If you want your information to be received, think about how it's offered.
As far as I'm concerned, if you see a post by me, you could just pass it by. I won't miss ya.

TAWILDCATT, you rank right there with him. "nobody thinks anymore"? That would include you then, wouldn't it? Since your comment clearly didn't have much thought put into it....





It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many so deathly afraid of being poisoned by their lead pot if they run it over some temperature. Folks if you run the lead pot at any reasonable casting temperature (or even well above) you don't have anything to worry about. You won't be suddenly overcome by lead fumes an go blind stupid or suffer any of the other purported consequences. The biggest reason to ventilate is not to remove lead vapors, but to remove smoke from fluxing.

Look at this chart (http://www.powerstream.com/z/vapor-press1-big.png).

Notice that the vapor pressure of lead at 1000F (538C) is less than 0.000001 (probably closer to half that or 0.0000005) atmospheres. What that is saying is that the amount of lead vapor that makes it into the air is miniscule at that temperature. What little does get into the air doesn't go far. You are far and away more likely to get lead poisoning from improper hygiene and ingestion when working with your pot than through inhalation.

[Gunslinger]

I think the fear of lead poisoning comes partly from terror stories told by older folks and self-proclamed experts and partly due to the fact that lead poisoning IS dangerous, and hard to get rid of.... IF you get it that is!

The guy in my club have told me numerous times that uhhh lead is dangerous and you sniff lead fumes to the extend that you poop out slugs after 2 days of casting and blah blah blah. I listened and did some investegating myself. And I'm convinced that the guys in this board know much more about casting than the guys in my club - they stopped years ago, and never use the internet!

That said... I am very careful when smelting, casting, sizing and loading. I smelt outside only, and if the weather is bad I sit in my parents garage with the gate wide open as well as the door in the back. I keep my casting clothes in a bag and i never wear it in the house. I'm also very thorough with hygiene...

Okay maybe I am a little paraniod he he [smilie=f:

[qajaq59]

IMO The quickest way to get lead into your system is to buy cups from China hat have been illegally painted with it.

[geargnasher]

Well, Lurch, thanks for the lecture and scientific info, but it is overpowered by the unnecessary slam.
When did "a bit concerned" become "deathly afraid"?
Apparently it happened in your mind, as it did not appear on the screen until you put it there.
If you want your information to be received, think about how it's offered.
As far as I'm concerned, if you see a post by me, you could just pass it by. I won't miss ya.

TAWILDCATT, you rank right there with him. "nobody thinks anymore"? That would include you then, wouldn't it? Since your comment clearly didn't have much thought put into it....


Glad to see you're makin' friends again, Hammer!

Gear

[Bret4207]

Well, Lurch, thanks for the lecture and scientific info, but it is overpowered by the unnecessary slam.
When did "a bit concerned" become "deathly afraid"?
Apparently it happened in your mind, as it did not appear on the screen until you put it there.
If you want your information to be received, think about how it's offered.
As far as I'm concerned, if you see a post by me, you could just pass it by. I won't miss ya.

TAWILDCATT, you rank right there with him. "nobody thinks anymore"? That would include you then, wouldn't it? Since your comment clearly didn't have much thought put into it....

Don't take it personally. This is just the culmination of seeing hundreds of posts where people ARE acting in fear of their life over something that isn't going to hurt them. I've even seen pictures of a guy rendering alloy down wearing full PPE and a mask OUTSIDE!!! For goodness sakes, stand upwind!

After you see the same question for the 117th time (can I shoot a GC boolit w/o the GC???) you get to the point of wondering if anyone reads back through the archives here. Your post is just one of the ones that happened to catch the flack from the other 300 posts saying the same thing. No one is calling you a coward or saying you're stupid. The responses are just directed at the readers in general and more over to our society in general and our culture of fear and victimhood.
We live in a world where kids have to wear mouth guards on the playground and helmets and padding while riding a bike, where a minor scrape is bathing in triple antibiotic and every surface is wiped down with Clorox and sprayed with Lysol, where our automobiles carry 1500 lbs (and several thousand dollars worth) of air bags, passive restraints, anti smog gear and brakes that won't allow you to lock them up. What was once addressed with common sense has morphed into an irrational fear of everything that might cause us harm. And it's bolstered by an industry dedicated to ensuring we BUY the idea so that we'll BUY their products to protect us from our own stupidity!

Sorry for the rant. :violin:The point is it wasn't directed at you personally, I'm sure.

[armyrat1970]

Just to get back on the point of temps. I may run mine a little higher than most but I usually go between 880 and 900. With WWS.

[qajaq59]

What temp do you run your pot to cast? My 50/50 alloy seems to cast best at 750. But that's with an iron double bullet mold. If it were a 6 banger and an aluminum mold I'd probably need a while to find the right temp again. And I use the thermometer more to control the smelting temp in case I miss a zinc WW. If the temp on the casting is off I can see it in the bullets pretty fast, even without the thermometer.

[HammerMTB]

Glad to see you're makin' friends again, Hammer!

Gear
Nice to see you here in the interest of peace, not stirring [edit], Gear

[AZ-Stew]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many so deathly afraid of being poisoned by their lead pot if they run it over some temperature.


They just keep on repeting old wives tales.

Yeah, like the people who think the quest for shiny boolits is purely a cosmetic issue, as if I was worried that the guy at the next bench would be snickering behind my back if my castings didn't glisten like chrome. "Shiny" is a measure of proper casting temp. and closely linked to alloy type. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COSMETICS!


Well, Lurch, thanks for the lecture and scientific info, but it is overpowered by the unnecessary slam... As far as I'm concerned, if you see a post by me, you could just pass it by. I won't miss ya.

Hammer, you need some skin-thickener. Lighten up a bit and learn.

Regards,

Stew

[geargnasher]

Nice to see you here in the interest of peace, not stirring [edit], Gear

Not stirring it, I just don't want you to think that it's ok to name-call and insult people who comment on your thread. Nobody here is out to get you, so quit being so defensive and save the drama for the soap scripters.

Gear

[armyrat1970]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many so deathly afraid of being poisoned by their lead pot if they run it over some temperature. Folks if you run the lead pot at any reasonable casting temperature (or even well above) you don't have anything to worry about. You won't be suddenly overcome by lead fumes an go blind stupid or suffer any of the other purported consequences. The biggest reason to ventilate is not to remove lead vapors, but to remove smoke from fluxing.

Look at this chart (http://www.powerstream.com/z/vapor-press1-big.png).

Notice that the vapor pressure of lead at 1000F (538C) is less than 0.000001 (probably closer to half that or 0.0000005) atmospheres. What that is saying is that the amount of lead vapor that makes it into the air is miniscule at that temperature. What little does get into the air doesn't go far. You are far and away more likely to get lead poisoning from improper hygiene and ingestion when working with your pot than through inhalation.

Well I know one thing. Many, if not most, of us cast with wws that have high lead content. I know these dropped boolitls can be heat treated for hardness in a convection oven that many have around the house. Lurch, and others that have posted about no concern of lead, don't know if you heat treat ww dropped boolits but if you did, would you use the around the house convection oven that your family prepares food in? Or would you buy another to heat treat your boolits? Really would like to know.

[joeb33050]

I cast bullets for over 40 years without a thermometer. I felt guilty, so I bought one a few years back. Now it sits on the shelf, doing nothing. They're not fun to use, and never told me anything of any importance. Shiny though.
joe b.

[qajaq59]

I cast bullets for over 40 years without a thermometer. I felt guilty, so I bought one a few years back. Now it sits on the shelf, doing nothing. They're not fun to use, and never told me anything of any importance. Shiny though.
joe b.

I bought mine for the casting pot but what I really use it for it to keep the temp right when I'm smelting so I don't have to hand pick out the zinc.

And there's always the "different strokes for different folks" aspect.

And Joe how do you keep yours shiny? Mine looks grungy as all get out. [smilie=l:

[thx997303]

I think he doesn't use it.

They sure are shiny when new.

[lurch]

Well I know one thing. Many, if not most, of us cast with wws that have high lead content. I know these dropped boolitls can be heat treated for hardness in a convection oven that many have around the house. Lurch, and others that have posted about no concern of lead, don't know if you heat treat ww dropped boolits but if you did, would you use the around the house convection oven that your family prepares food in? Or would you buy another to heat treat your boolits? Really would like to know.

Well, no I don't heat treat boolits in an oven. I never said I wasn't concerned about lead either, just not concerned about vapors off the pot being something to get all hyped over. Would I use the kitchen oven to treat boolits? Probably not. There is a possibility there for mechanical contact/transfer that while unlikely could allow a small amount of lead to find its way to some food somewhere down the line. Anything that you can do to avoid the possibility of ingestion is a good idea in my opinion. That and The Boss is rather possessive of it. I'm far more concerned about having dross residue on my hands after casting and then going to get a snack...best wash up first.

Look at the vapor issue another way. I work for a large company that does a lot of soldering in the electronics lab. Every year the safety folks come around to make sure the techs aren't using soldering irons that are "too hot". There are actually a couple reasons for this but the one germane here has to do with lead vapors. The standards here are zero lead accumulation for a person with their nose literally inches from the work, 8 hours a day 5 days a week 50 weeks a year for an entire career. What temperature do you have to solder below to be "safe" according to this standard? 800F. How often do you cast at that high of a temperature? How long do you spend smelling the top of the melt? Is it your career? This is my point: At the temperature we typically run the pot and significantly hotter there is no danger presented by lead vapor coming off the pot.

[joeb33050]

I bought mine for the casting pot but what I really use it for it to keep the temp right when I'm smelting so I don't have to hand pick out the zinc.

And there's always the "different strokes for different folks" aspect.

And Joe how do you keep yours shiny? Mine looks grungy as all get out. [smilie=l:
I'm pretty much out of the WW game, although I melt big lots of metals together to get a common lot which makes the bullets the same weight and hardness. I shoot rifles and rifle-likle pistols, maybe 5000 a year. Thus, zink isn't a problem for me. I leave my Lee pot on 8, let it heat up for an hour or so, and adjust the temperature knob as needed, if needed. The pot will go to over 800 on the thermometer, my "8" on the dial works for me. I haven't used the thermometer in a year or more. That's my story, and I'm........
joe b.

[vulture47]

Don't mean to butt in or step on anyones toes. Years ago when I first got into casting for my black powder rifles and pistols some of the old boys told me to be careful of the fumes, not necessarily due to "lead fumes" but because when using scarp lead you never know where it's been or what might have been amalgamated into it, on purpose or by accident, especially when fluxing the pot as this was when a lot of these elements might be encouraged to take flight. Don't know if there's any truth to this, or enough truth to cause concern, but I've always tried to be careful, especially when fluxing, not to breath the fumes, just in case.

[armyrat1970]

Don't mean to butt in or step on anyones toes. Years ago when I first got into casting for my black powder rifles and pistols some of the old boys told me to be careful of the fumes, not necessarily due to "lead fumes" but because when using scarp lead you never know where it's been or what might have been amalgamated into it, on purpose or by accident, especially when fluxing the pot as this was when a lot of these elements might be encouraged to take flight. Don't know if there's any truth to this, or enough truth to cause concern, but I've always tried to be careful, especially when fluxing, not to breath the fumes, just in case.

And that's all I'm saying. Maybe no proven facts but why take the chance. Years ago it was said eggs were bad for you. Sugar is bad for you. Caffine is bad for you.
People are now drinking 2% milk because it was said that regular milk that you bought at the store was bad for you. I remember Frosted Flakes that tasted very good to me with the amount of sugar they had. But now the newer Frosted Flakes taste bland. I ate them for years with no problem. Other things also. New ideas. But lead poisoning is not something new and I have not seen anything to disclaim it. If any of you know of any information and a site I can check out post it. And even after I view it I think I will still take precautions. I don't trust doctors and the like either.

[Dale53]

A thermometer is very useful in a couple of ways:

You can freely exchange information as to successful casting temperature with a particular mould and bullet type. It IS important to cast at as low a temperature as possible with a particular bullet alloy and bullet design. Casting at higher temperatures than you need produces more slag and can burn out the alloy constituents unequally leading to bullets with varying weights and sizes (small differences to be sure but large enough to be seen on the target).

One BIG use is to control temp of your "smelt" to keep from ruining your alloy with zinc contamination. I keep my smelting temperature under 650 degrees and the thermometer allows me to easily do this (I have a fish/turkey fryer with a 12" diameter cast iron pot that'll hold about 120 lbs) with the valve on my propane tank.

Dale53

[armyrat1970]

A thermometer is very useful in a couple of ways:

You can freely exchange information as to successful casting temperature with a particular mould and bullet type. It IS important to cast at as low a temperature as possible with a particular bullet alloy and bullet design. Casting at higher temperatures than you need produces more slag and can burn out the alloy constituents unequally leading to bullets with varying weights and sizes (small differences to be sure but large enough to be seen on the target).

One BIG use is to control temp of your "smelt" to keep from ruining your alloy with zinc contamination. I keep my smelting temperature under 650 degrees and the thermometer allows me to easily do this (I have a fish/turkey fryer with a 12" diameter cast iron pot that'll hold about 120 lbs) with the valve on my propane tank.

Dale53

Dale what temps do you usually cast at with wws? I may be running mine to hot, at 880 to 900. But I seem to get good fill out with my Lee aluminum molds with hot molds and higher temps.
I keep my temps around 700 when smelting wws.

[Dale53]

armyrat1970;
I add 2% tin to my WW's and cast at 650-725 degrees, depending on the mould.

A hollow point mould I may run as hot as 750 degrees (I use a softer alloy - WW's/20% pure lead and add 2% tin). These will open up at rather low velocities.
Glen Fryxell has an excellent treatise (actually several good articles on hollow points at: http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm )

I keep my temperatures down at 650 when smelting WW's to keep away from the melting temperatures of Zinc weights (they reportedly melt at 780 degrees). I have NO problem melting WW's at 650 degrees. If for no other reason, Smelting is reason enough for a GOOD thermometer ( I use a Tru-Temp after a bad experience with a Lyman Thermometer).

FWIW

Dale53

[Echo]

I've stopped using the thermometer for rendering. I just start slow, and let the WW's come up to temp slow enough that the zinkies don't have a chance. Can't see going full speed. A heaped dutch oven will be ready for clearing in about 30-40 minutes, and the zinkies are removed with the spring clips. Don't know what temp I end up at, and really don't care.

[MKT]

Last night, as I played catch-up reading due to be prolonged absence (thats to work) I stumbled on this thread.

I had been meanng to get the thermometer for the longest time, but never did. As soon as I read the original post it jogged my memory....I had a thermocouple for my DMM in the tool box! I just happened to be warming the pot at the time I was reading and immediately went to the garage and dug out the t-couple and DMM. I now know that "8" on my pot runs about 750F. I also observed some big downward swings, dropping to almost 650F just before the heating element kicked back on.

Also, just for giggles, I had to check the temp of my 6 cavity H&G #50 after a half hour of casting. The mold was holding a pretty consistent 300F temp after dropping the boolits.

[joel0407]

My gas powered pot runs constant at 700F.