Pure Lead for .358 148gr WC

[georgel98]

Hi everyone,

I was curious to get some opinions on how well a .358 148grain wc would do if cast out of pure lead.

I am going to be using this bullet in several .38/.357 revolvers and a smith model 52.

Currently I am using 3.2 grains of W231 in .38 special cases. I am assuming my velocities are between 700-800 fps.

Is pure lead to soft for this combo? Will leading be a problem. If so, are there any recomendations for the type of alloy I should be using.

Further, I do not have a mold yet. Any suggestions.

BTW, the WC that i am using now are the 148 hollow base from Zero.

Thanks....
-George

[Wally]

I tried this in the summer with a .44 Special using a Lee 208 WC bullet cast from pure lead. I had to heat the metal very hot to cast it well, but it did fill the mold quite well--I was surprised. The bullets cast will be heavier & smaller than normal. They shot well, were accurate, and did not lead up my barrel anymore than any other alloy used. I prefer to use WW metal as it casts at a lower temperature and provides bullets that are harder & larger in diameter and a bit lighter (by about 5%).

[Will]

Pure may or may not lead in your gun. I would harden a little, maybe 3-1 lead+WW. I use the Lee 148WC with good results using WW metal.

[Leftoverdj]

Pure lead may work for .38 Special target loads, but since you are loading for several pistols, there is likely to be at least one that needs a slightly harder alloy. I'd add 2% tin on general princiciples.

You can get lots of heated debate on the best WC, but I see little difference between one lead cylinder and another. I've used a six cavity Lee 358-148-TL as long as that mould has been made. Your load is a standard one for revolvers, and you are not going to be able to improve on it much. While I do not shoot a Model 52, my understanding is that their bores run tight. You may wish to size to .356 or .357 and slightly reduce the charge for the Model 52 for best results,

[runfiverun]

if all you have is pure lead add some tin to it.
win and rem used various amounts of lead tin alloys through the years.
some were 40-1 and 30-1 in their 45 colt,44 special and older 38 special loadings.
the term hard cast didn't come along till the addition of antimony.
like was said above fit is more important,alloy plays a part but you can go pretty dang soft and have good results.

[bobthenailer]

ive never used lead for pistol bullets , but ive had good luck with 50/50 ww & lead

[Maven]

George, Remington and Winchester used to offer pure Pb swaged ~148gr. WC's through Midway USA and Lock, Stock & Barrel. Both had some kind of proprietary dry lube on them and were very accurate in my .357mag., the Rem. WC especially so. Leading wasn't a problem with target loads either.

[Wally]

They still do but they are always out of stock...the .38 calibers run just under 6¢ each--the .45 Cal (255 RNF) @ 8.7¢ each. I would imagine when they are in stock again (if and when)--the price will increase dramatically.

[243winxb]

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2002/peters.htm#table1
In general, for most lead products, the relative source discrimination power of the measured elements decreases in the following order: copper, arsenic, antimony, bismuth, and silver (Peele et al. 1991). Tin is not included in this list because in many lead sources it is not present at detectable levels. However, when tin is present, it provides excellent discrimination among melts of lead. Antimony, specified by the ammunition manufacturers, is alloyed with lead in order to harden the bullets. The other elements are present in trace amounts and can vary from one product to another. Bullet leads analyzed from CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester have contained up to 0.42 percent arsenic, 6.8 percent antimony, 2.5 percent tin, 0.2 percent bismuth, 0.22 percent copper, 0.031 percent silver, and 0.011 percent cadmium. The wide ranges in concentrations of all of these elements within sources provide for thousands of distinguishable melts of bullet lead at any one time.

[Mavrick]

FWIW- I've used a few pounds from an RCBS WC, and I like a little antimony in the mix. WW+2% tin have been good to me. If I were to get another chance soon, I would probably try more lead in the mix.(same as I'm saying YOU should do, except I'm coming from the other side) With a velocity below 900fps, you want soft, but a soft lube MAY be important, too.
You MIGHT try different die sizes to get a more custom fit, too.
Have fun,
Gene

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Pure lead is a little soft, but will work ok at the handgun velocities that you will be using. If you go faster in the .357 its better to go up to at least WW hardness. A little bit of tin (1-2%) with the WW helps to do that and at the same time it increases the flowability/pourability so that your bullets are better filled out (sharper). I shoot several 38's, .357's and an M52 and use 148 WC's. I have the H&G #251 which is a flat-faced double ended WC and the H&G #50. The 251 is used in the 52 and has to be seated flush with the case mouth to ensure proper feeding, although it can be seated out for the other guns where I usually use the 50 and a slight crimp. Mold suggestions would include H&G if you can find one, Lee (the cheapest) either the 358-146 or TL 148 (if you want to work with tumble lubing as well as aluminum molds). Or the Lyman #358091, the RCBS #38-148WC, or The Saeco (available thru Midway)#397, #348,#052, or if you are a bit adventurous the Saeco #053. These are all classic designs. Its a matter of personal preference,but I tend to favor iron molds. Powder-wise there is a lot of different ones that work well. As such I can't really recommend one over another. At the moment I happen to be using 700X (2.5-2.7 grains in the 52) and its been doing a good job, but so has Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, etc. Whatever works best for you; you have to experiment and keep good records/track of results. Use a good lube-either a lubrisizer or the Lee pan lube & push thru method. You'll have to determine what is the best sizing diameter for each gun. 52's are a bit tighter and like .356 rather than .357. Making the right decisions equipment-wise and putting in the patience and determination...and practice are all parts of the success that will follow for good target shooting. Best of luck with your efforts. LLs

[HeavyMetal]

In my S&W 52 I've been using the Lyman DEWC lubed with Lar's in the center groove only.

Alloy has been pure lead with 2% tin added for fillout. This alloy has worked well using the old stand by load of 2.5 grains Bullseye.

Softer actually works better in this gun and because the boolit is seated flush with the case mouth the case itself takes all the abuse during the loading cycle.

[sargenv]

I have some hornady 32 cal swaged projectiles.. both HBWC and SWC an they both came out dead soft at 5 BHN on the LBT tester that I have. Likely as close to pure as they can be. They have a dry lube that could be graphite but could also be something like motor mica.. very fine and comes off on your fingers when you load them. Likely Hornady and others use this same mix for HBWC's in the 38 cal realm.