Mihec's new H&G #503 (.44 Keith Style)

[crabo]

I got to shoot a few of the loads that I had loaded. I tried 9, 9.5, 10, 10.5 grains of Unique. The 10.5 showed promise. (the lower target is 10 of Unique) 17.5 of 2400 also showed promise. I am just getting started, but I feel like this is a better shooter in my gun, than the RCBS 250K. (plus it is a 6 cavity) It seems like this boolit does better with some speed. Of course I have just scratched the surface and barely started load developement. This is at 50 yards.

I'm shooting a PC 629 with an Ultradot and 7 1/2" barrel. I am happy with this mold.

[practical_man]

Thanks Crabo. Your review is making it VERY hard for me to wait for my mold.

Please update this thread as your tests progress.

-john

[Wayne S]

What is the "as Cast" Dia. of your RCBS 250 KT, and what did you size it and the 503 bullet to ?

[crabo]

I cast up a 2 pound coffee can of these tonight and sized them. I am ready to do some more testing after they sit a few days, I water dropped them.

Wayne, here is what I wrote previously about the mold. I size to .431

I cast some boolits tonight from pure WWs. I degreased the mold with brake cleaner and set it on my Walmart hot plate for about an hour and 15 minutes. No other mold prep was done. I had previously broken the edge of the sprueplate with a file. I cast about 125 boolits and then let the mold cool until it was cool to touch. I threw all the boolits back in the pot.

I then started round two. The gap between the mold halves was noticeable. If anything, it was not smaller, but maybe a little larger gap. I used Bullplate on the sprue plate and on the locating pins. As I started casting I noticed I had a problem with the sprue plate hanging up and not closing easily. I checked the bolt holding the sprue plate and it had backed out. I had not tighened the set screw. Once I tightened it up, it work fine like it was supposed to.

I started casting at 700 degrees. It required several wacks with the mallet to drop the boolits. I increased the heat, and at 800 degrees it dropped the boolits from the mold easier, however at 850 degrees, or wide open on my RCBS, it only took one sharp wack and all 6 would drop out.

I really do not like the dome headed machine screws that are in the mold for the handles. On my RCBS mold guide, they bump and it irratates me. I will put the screw heads on the belt sander. There seems to be plenty of meat on the head to still grab an allen wrench if I sand them flat.

I like to alternate filling from the front hole and then from the back hole on my 6 cavity molds. The screw heads bumped both ways. I think this gives better tempeture control of the mold. I also cooled the sprues on a wet rag per BruceB's manifesto on speed casting.

I weighed two groups of boolits cast from WWs. The weight is very consistent from cavity to cavity.

261.2, 261.1, 260.0, 262.1, 261.0, 261.5

260.1, 260.7, 260.6, 260.5, 259.8, 261.2

The boolits are with out a doubt, out of round. Using a .431 die from Lathesmith, the boolit's partlines would not polish off. The part line is still obvious, after sizing to .431. On a lot of boolits there is a small area where it did not get sized on the driving bands. I spread my calipers about .010 and compared it to the unsized area on the boolit. (SWAG, Scientific Wild Ass Guess) Sometimes there is not an unsized spot, but the lines are still visible, and sometime the gap was a wide as the .010. Remember I am using a .431 die.

The boolits measured the smallest at the partlines and was usually .430. This was done with a dial caliper and not a micrometer. 90 degrees out, it would often measure .003 to .004 larger. After sizing it would often measure .431 at the part line. I guess the die moves a little WW around to the partline area. It never smeared the driving bands as it sized.

Bottom line: I don't know. To be honest, I have never measured any of my boolits before to check for being out of round before I sized them. These sized up nicely, with only a very small flashing on the base of the boolit, once in a while. There is a part line, but I would not call it a flashing at all.

I think it is all going to come down to, how do they shoot? I know I would much rather cast with this mold than my 2 cavity
RCBS 250K. If it had not been raining so hard, I would have gone back in the house and got the RCBS mold and cast a few to measure before sizing. Then I would have had something to compare between the different molds.

I am looking forward to shooting this boolit. I may not get to do it for a week or two. I water dropped about 100 or so, sized and lubed with Carnuba Red, and will start loading them in a few days. I will let you know how that goes.
__________________

[Wayne S]

CRABO,
Thanks for the info, I'll crank up the pot next week and see if that helps with the bullet sticking problem, plus run off some Saeco # 429 . and head to the range. And as the addage goes THE PROFF IS IN THE PUDDING

[crabo]

I did a little more testing with my 44 and red dot tonight. I shot 2 groups of 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5, 10, 10.5 of Herco with a WLP and mixed cases.

I may need to put my scope back on for the testing. I seem to be able to hold better with it. This is the only load I consider worth while. The second group shot very close to this size also.

I think I need to try more powders and some new brass. (I am saving my Starline for when I get close) I am not happy with this yet. I think with my scope and some more work, I can get this down to 1 or 1.5 at 50 yards.

The groups from 8 I threw away they were so bad.
8.5 6"
9 2.75"
9.5 5.5"
10 3"
10.5 2.25"

[crabo]

I shot some more tonight. I tried HS6 and Blue Dot. I did not care for Blue Dot at all. 16 grains of Blue Dot generated more muzzle blast and recoil than 20 of 296 with a 280 grain LBT. I also had sticky extraction with 16 grains. The LBT 280 GC boolit is my hunting boolit in front of 20 grains of 296. The H&G is going to be my pleasure load. So Blue Dot is down the road. It also gave me a lead wash down the barrel.

I put my scope back on the gun for my testing. HS6 may be the darling of the ball. I had good results with 10 grains of HS6. 10.5, 11, 11.5 all opened up to about 4 inches. I am going to work around the 10 grains to see what happens.

12 grains of HS6 proved very interesting and I am not sure what to make of the target. (3rd target) My barrel had a lead wash from the Blue Dot loads. I am still breaking in this gun, so I have lubed with Lar's CR and then coating with LLA.

After 4 shots of the 12 of HS6, ,the point of impact moved from the lower 4 shot group to the five shot group. I checked the bore and it was bright and shiney again. The LLA was reconditioning and cleaning the barrel, (or allowing the lead to do it.) The circled 3 shot group was with a different hold. I am total confused on what exactly happened, but I am going to test the 12 grain load again also.

[crabo]

No one else working with this boolit?

[targetshootr]

I haven't been able to get to the range since this one and Blammers 45 mold came, my longest stretch in years and our range has added three new pistol berms too. Looks like a keeper though. I can see the slightest bit of light in the middle when it's closed but I haven't noticed out-of-round.

[practical_man]

No one else working with this boolit?

Just as soon as i get a mold, i'll start working with Clays, Universal, and Unique.

Can't wait to get started!

[Leadforbrains]

No one else working with this boolit?

I have been having good results with Universal and N330.

[crabo]

I have been having good results with Universal and N330.

What grains are you using with Universal?

[Leadforbrains]

What grains are you using with Universal?

Im using 6.5 grains of Universal in my Ruger .44 special. It does real well for me.
I have HS6 and from what you are doing with that makes me want to give that a try.

[crabo]

I decided to test some Universal and a couple of HS6 loads. I also decided to shoot some 12 shot groups. I don't usually do that because it works you pretty hard, but it sure tells you about the load and your shooting technique. I refuse to accept 3 shot groups from a revolver because I have had touching 3 shot groups open up in large groups as you finish the cylinder. All targets at 50 yards. Also all of these groups were shot with mixed range brass that had not been trimed or prepped. That will come next.

8.5, 9 grains of Universal and it did not work well, 5-6" groups.

9.3 of Universal looked a lot better but dispersed horizontally at 4.5".

9.6 of Universal gave 2 1/4"

9.8 of Universal gave 2 1/2 with a called flyer. The gun went off before I was ready.

12 of HS6 gave 2 1/8"

11.8 of HS6 gave 2 1/4" with a couple of fliers. I need to retest that one.

Conclusions so far, I am liking HS6 and Universal the best. I haven't tried any full horsepower loads of 2400 or 296. My purpose for this boolit is to have a fun shooting load that doesn't wear me out.

[Dale53]

Crabo;
It looks like you have found a FINE combination (bullet, powder, load, not to mention, the shooter!).

Good work!
Dale53

[crabo]

Looking back over these tests so far, one thing has jumped out. My best groups with each of the powders seems to be approaching max or near max for that powder. The groups were way big for the lower loadings. The attached targets show that.

A friend ran the data on the Quickload and the best groups, 12 of HS6 and 9.6 of Universal both ran about 1150 fps from my 7.5 inch barrel. (I have not chrono'd these yet)

But the HS6 gave 29k psi versus 35k with the Universal.

[Wayne S]

CRABO,
In your first tests I noticed you stoped at 10.0 of Unique and 17.5 of 2400 ?? Was there a reason for this ?
I checked my records and the Hornady manual for their 265 gn.bullet . Now I know the difference between match loads, hunting loads, and ENJOYABLE shooting loads, is this the case ??

[crabo]

Wayne, I stopped at 10.5 of Herco and Unique because I would looking for an upper midrange load. The 10.5 Unique load is about 1200 fps which is no slouch. It is a pleasant load to shoot 100+ rounds. When I switched to the 22 grains of 296 and a 280 grain LBT boolit, it was a noticeable amount more recoil and muzzle blast.

I know this sounds crazy, but I am hoping I can find an accurate load with the 503 that prints close to my 280 LBT hunting boolit with 20-22 of 296 at 50 yards. If I play around with the loads, I might find ones that are pretty close, or maybe not.

I feel confident that the 260 grain H&G 503 at 1150 fps will put down a deer or hog with good boolit placement.

I think I forgot to mention this, but I am waterdropping these boolits and sizing with Carnuba Red within an hour or so of casting. I am coating them with LLA and I let them sit a week or so before I load them. The extra lube is because I am still breaking in my gun for lead.

[Dale53]

crabo;

>>>I feel confident that the 260 grain H&G 503 at 1150 fps will put down a deer or hog with good boolit placement.<<<

I can definitely CONFIRM this supposition. Shooting my Model 29 (8-3/8" barrel) my practice load for hunting was the original H&G #503 (the model for the MiHec #503) at 1200 fps chronographed. I shot a deer at 75 yards (facing me) in the neck and it went full length of the deer just under the spine, after breaking it's neck. I have NEVER recovered one of these bullets from a deer. I have shot them from 10 yards to 85 yards with the same results.

FWIW
Dale53

[kbstenberg]

Crabo what would be your best guess on velocity of the 503 with 9.7gr Unique, LPP? This shoots good enough ( fist size groups at 25Y) for all the shots i get.
Besides being new to hand-gunning an CB. I dont really care for much more recoil. Hopefully with more exp. it wont be so distasteful. An yes i will stay well within my shooting ability. 25y max.

[crabo]

I don't really know. It would be plenty to kill a deer. A friend ran my loads on Quickload to get the velocities. What gun are you shooting? Grips make a huge difference as does how you grip the gun. When I try to hold the gun hard, I flinch a lot. I just keep a frim grip and let the gun recoil. When I try to hold it down, my groups open up.

I will load a couple or 3, spin the cylinder and start shooting. When I hit on a empty cylinder, my flinch or lack of one is very obvious.

[TDC]

Crabo,

I've been following this thread to determine a good load for this boolit. I just want to give a word of thanks to all you guys who take the time and put in the effort to allow others to lessen the time and effort required for a new boolits development.

I cast and reload, but basically I'm a hunter with handguns and don't seem to find the time required for the in-depth trials and evaluation processes you use. Just to let you know some of us are listening, learning, and very appreciative of what you do.

I can provide a bit of my own experience to the hunting side of hand gunning you may be able to use. What i'd like to suggest is the necessity for all handgun hunters to learn to shoot not only from a bench but more "field" like conditions. kbstenberg asked some important handgun hunting questions not often answered correctly, IMHO, by target and bench rest shooters in other posts on this website.

Early in my life I was in LE. The very best preparation and practice for my hunting was the Oregon Peace Officers Association monthly competition I was involved with. The "Close Combat" competition course included 7yd, 15yd, 25yd and 50yd target distances. The positions were shot double action, single action, weak hand, strong hand, barricade and none, standing, kneeling and prone, speed loader reload, all under a strict time limit. We quickly learned how important some of the issues you mentioned were. Grip, stance, posture, etc, etc...

The beauty of the competition was to learn to shoot under stress in a rapidly occurring combat situation.. That is what is so lacking when some people advise others on the website involving a hunting situation which much more emulates the rush, excitement, and even fear of a combat situation..

I've had the good fortune to take five large bull elk, four black bear, and numerous deer with a Mod. 29 44 mag. (most of the deer with my old duty weapon, a Mod. 57 .41 mag.) I've used my own hand-loads and cast HP boolits on all animals with, contrary to the experiences of some commentary on this site, great success.

The excitement of the hunt and the adrenaline rush when you finally see that trophy often emulates the physical and emotional stress of close combat in LE. I'd also add that the factors of recoil and muzzle blast are almost unnoticed in a hunting situation...

I mention this because many departments and Sheriff's offices permit their department range masters and firearms training officers to utilize their ranges off-duty for training of private citizens at a very nominal fee. There is no better training or practice for more realistic hunting conditions than this training. Some of you may want to investigate this training possibility in your own areas.

Use the bench to build you loads, sight your pistols and familiarize yourself with your pistol. But use something like "close combat" training for more useful hunting practice... other than the field there is no real substitute.

Just a tip to return some of the good research and advice I get from you guys...

Sorry about the partial "hijack" but I just wanted to say this with my thanks!!

TDC

[Dale53]

TDC;
Your comments are well taken. I sometimes deplore the emphasis on calibers, power, and guns and almost none on "real world shooting".

Thirty or forty years ago, my home gun club got heavy into PPC shooting. We worked with the local police department who were fortunate to have a Chief who was a champion pistol shot and REALLY emphasized marksmanship.

After shooting PPC for a while I realized it was not a super dooper combat course (not bad, but not great) but was probably about the best imaginable as a HUNTING course. You shoot from standing, use double action fire, use right and left hand barricade support (great in the woods against a tree) and kneeling. A person who acquits himself well in the PPC course of fire WILL be ready for deer IF he shoots the course with his hunting handgun and hunting loads.

When IPSC came along somewhat later, it was a martial art (at the time) with "real" handguns and "real" ammo, and was a considerably better "combat" course. However, PPC shot with a hunting handgun with hunting loads is about as good as it gets for hunting practice.

My old hunting buddy and I would shoot as many as 2500 rounds of .44 magnum loads in the weeks leading up to deer hunting just preparing for the ONE shot. It was NOT time wasted.

We probably would be well served if we did more talking about shooting rather than equipment (but I DO love to talk about equipment AND cast bullets:drinks:).

Dale53

[crabo]

I went this morning and reshot a bunch of my loads just to make sure of my results. I decided I am going to load a bunch of 12 grains of HS6, put my red dot back on and shoot it a lot. Maybe go kill a couple of pigs with it.

Bottom line, it is pretty easy to get 2"- 2.5 "at 50 yards with this boolit in my gun. It can be done pretty easy with HS6, Universal, Unique, and Herco at the 1150-1200 fps range with WD WWs. I did not try any 2400 or 296.

Now I need to start working with the 45/70 group buy 460420 in my guide gun.

[Dale53]

crabo;
This pretty much mirrors my experience. I have experience with an original H&G Mould going back many, many years and several deer. MiHec's six cavity mould makes a perfect H&G #503 Keith and I am extremely happy with the mould AND the bullets from the mould. It could hardly be better.

I can't wait until MiHec produces the brass Cramer Style two cavity hollow point mould to go with our six cavity solid bullet point. We'll be in TALL clover!!

Dale53

[Dale53]

Here is a target from my new Ruger .44 Lipsey Special Flattop (.44 Special) with the MiHec H&G #503 at TARGET velocity (4.1 Clays and Win LP primers that chronographs at just under 700 fps):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img063.jpg

This was shot standing at 25 yards. This bullet allows me to shoot to my potential whether light target loads or heavy loads in both .44 Special and Magnum.

As an aside, I will be increasing the light load to 4.5 grs of Clays (or equivalent) as my intention was to about equal the .44 Special factory load for target use. This level also is a terrific edible small game load. It should also work well for the various varmints I might run into on a local walk in the woods (ground hogs and coyotes). That Keith style bullet is a killer, even at low velocities and on edible game does not destroy much meat but sure is a "stopper". On a rabbit, a head shot or one through the "slats" will do the job without damaging meat.

FWIW
Dale53

[crabo]

I was shooting up leftovers and I shot 3 of my H&G load of 12 of HS6 and 3 of my LBT GC with 21 of 296. The LBT is a WFN and weighs 289 and is a GC and the H&G weighs 268 and is plain based.

This is pretty cool. Both loads hit in the same group at 50 yards. It will be interesting to see what they do at longer ranges. Being of the Bigger is Better Texas mentality, I want to use the LBT for hunting and the H&G for practice and fun. Once I shoot it at 100, I will have a much better idea of how it is going to act.

Nest Wed I am going to get to shoot the H&G at some steel at longer distances. Should be fun.

[MiHec]

I still have 4 of this molds
If anyone is interested PM me

[nueces44]

Due to my problem of not having correct address on Pay Pal, I received my mold yesterday.
May I say I didn't know for sure what to expect.

I have seen perfection before on machined products, THIS IS PRECISION, and PERFECTION!

Held it to light, NO LIGHT seen through halves. Tight fit, almost a vacuum when they are together.
I almost hate to even think about using it.

Mihec is a Bullet Mold Meister.

Now he has a new hollow point mold in the works and I don't need any more, But such craftmanship, oh what the hell, one more won't hurt.

[Dale53]

, Oh what the hell, one more won't hurt.

Amen!!

Dale53

[lead_her_fly]

Dale, MiHec,
This is Skip from over at the Smith Forum. Just a couple of questions. Are the out of round issues solved in the moulds you still have available? What is the cost? Does it come with handles? What size, diameter wise, can I expect from wheel weights + 20% Linotype?

The reason I ask is that I have a Marlin rifle that seems to need at least .432" bullets. If they are hard as nails, hence the %20 Linotype, and sized to .431" it seems to do OK for accuracy.
I just sold my H&G #503 because all I could get out of that for size was .430" even with straight Linotype.

Sorry for all the questions. I may be in the market is the price is right. Christmas is coming! ;)

[Dale53]

lead her fly;
I suggest you send MiHec a personal message as I don't know what he has in stock. My mould (six cavity H&G #503 clone) is a DANDY! It is round, the bullet cavity finish is excellent, and I can run 700 match quality bullets in a little over an hour (less than an hour and a half). The bullets shoot extremely well. My mould is plenty large enough to size to .431" or .432" without being excessively large.

I suggest you act quickly as he only had a few moulds left. He will be starting to run the two cavity Cramer Style moulds shortly. The Cramer styles come with three sets of pins for a variety of hollow point sizes. The cost, with all three sets of pins, is $116.00 delivered:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=56995

Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

I doubt if this style of bullet is going to feed well in your marlin
Dale, MiHec,
This is Skip from over at the Smith Forum. Just a couple of questions. Are the out of round issues solved in the moulds you still have available? What is the cost? Does it come with handles? What size, diameter wise, can I expect from wheel weights + 20% Linotype?

The reason I ask is that I have a Marlin rifle that seems to need at least .432" bullets. If they are hard as nails, hence the %20 Linotype, and sized to .431" it seems to do OK for accuracy.
I just sold my H&G #503 because all I could get out of that for size was .430" even with straight Linotype.

Sorry for all the questions. I may be in the market is the price is right. Christmas is coming! ;)

[lead_her_fly]

I doubt if this style of bullet is going to feed well in your marlin

My original H&G #503 fed quite well as a matter of fact. I did have to hold the rifle straight, no tipping from side to side, to get it to chamber well, but it did.

[Dale53]

lead her fly;
I have only owned one Marlin Model 1894 chambered in .44 Magnum. It was many years ago and it would not feed the Lyman 429421 nor the similar H&G #503 bullet. In fact, BECAUSE of this, I sent it down the pike. These days, I would just find a RF style of bullet that WOULD feed (the Lyman 429434 GC bullet fed VERY well).

Longbow has worked with his Marlin lever action .44 Magnum quite a bit and has not been able to get his rifle to reliably feed the #503.

Apparently, some of the rifles will feed this bullet but it appears that most will not.

FWIW
Dale53

[lead_her_fly]

Thanks for the replies about this bullet and chambering/feeding problems. I just sold my H&G #503 to a forum member. Believe me, my Marlin would feed that bullet with NO, ZERO, NADA PROBLEMO or else it wouldn't have stayed here as long as it has. Mine is the Cowboy special and may be different than older guns, don't know. What I do know is that it will feed a Keith SWC with not problems, trust me.

[MiHec]

I still have 2 of this molds
If anyone is interested PM me

[Down South]

I've cast a bunch of these but yet have to try them out. They are aging in air tight containers on one of my shelves in the shop. The mould cast great. I look forward to buying other moulds from MiHec. I’ve got at least four of his moulds now.

[Dale53]

If ANYONE needs a first rate custom bullet mould for the H&G #503 Keith style bullet, MiHec's is a STEAL!

I have mine but don't hesitate to jump on this as they are WONDERFUL six cavity moulds. Just click on his web site (on his response in the above post) and buy it while you can. "You ain't got enough money to buy mine!"

FWIW
Dale53

[ddixie884]

I ordered one of this group buy and sent several E-mails and PMs and never received info on how to pay for one, so didn't get one. I guess it is a language barrier, but since I couldn't seem to get one, I ordered an NOE instead. Didn't lose anything, and am not injured or mad, just no longer interested in MP Molds.

[MiHec]

I ordered one of this group buy and sent several E-mails and PMs and never received info on how to pay for one, so didn't get one. I guess it is a language barrier, but since I couldn't seem to get one, I ordered an NOE instead. Didn't lose anything, and am not injured or mad, just no longer interested in MP Molds.

Hi

I did e-mail you few times, but now I see it was wrong e-mail (yahoo).

[Crash_Corrigan]

I got one of those molds last week from Mihec. It was marked MH 430-256 on the side. It looked like a cadillac version of a Lee 6 Banger.

I just cast up about 200 boolits in less than 30 mins. This is the easiest mold I have ever used. I cleaned with with super hot water and dawn dishwasher detergent and a brush. Dried well I let it warm up on the Lee 4-20 for about 25 mins whilst the alloy warmed up. Once warmed up I dropped a load into one cavity...that furtherest one away from me. That one was a keeper. Then I dropped the last two....good deal both ok. Then three and up to six after about 7 casts.

Wow.....easy castability....mold gets hot and stays hot and the bullet fall like raindrops.. After a while the mold overheated and I went to the Bruce B method with a plate, water and a sponge and a rag to cool it down from time to time. If I did not cool it down some the boolits stuck in the cavities and when cooled down on every other cast the temperature hit a happy groove and I went to town.

They continued to fall like rain and came out pretty good. Measured at .432 at the base. They are now resting a pan with a shallow pool of lube solidifying around them. When cool they will be punched out and go thru a Lee push thru sizer if I can find it.

Great mold.

[Dale53]

Crash Corrigan;
Nice report! Your experiences pretty much mirror mine. I have run 20.5 lbs of match quality bullets in slightly over an hour with my copy of MiHec's mould. Further, the bullets shoot at NRA Match levels at 25 and 50 yards. I can't wait to try these at 100 yards (that'll have to wait until spring, I expect).

Dale53

[Leadforbrains]

I shot some of these out of an older 4 inch Smith 29 that I got from my dad.
The target stand was set up at 37 steps ( maybe 25 yards). The last group was fired after sight in.
Boolits were sized at .431 and loaded over 20 grains of 2400. I have no leading at all and the Barrel is clean.

[Leadforbrains]

Here's a picture of the target placement. The cell phone camera makes it look a little farther away. Sorry for the crappy pictures, but I use all my financial resources on guns and reloading stuff instead of cameras.

[MtGun44]

Heck of a group!

Bill

[Leadforbrains]

Thank you sir! I am still new to this, but I have learned alot from you guys.

[Gunsmoke]

I am a bit dissappointed with Miha's 503 mold. 2nd sprue plate was also not flat. Ended up straightening it with my press. Missalignment is apparent by looking closely in the cavites with the sprue plate open as the lines didn't match up. Boolits are out of round, but not as much as it would appear. Out of roundness is still very apparent when sized .431 which isn't hardly any sizing and which is the smallest I can go for the cylinder throats size I have. I have shot some indoors and they appear accurate but groups as that will come later, outdoors at 50 yards.

I also got in on the Lee .44 Keith group buy and that is a great mold. Can't hardly see the part line on the boolit and all cavities appear to be the same diameter and weight.

I know some would say I am too fussy and that is true. But if it isn't right, I don't want to waste my time with it. Don't know what to do with a mold that is second rate. Hard to sell with a clear conscience. I have "adjusted" many Lyman and other molds that were out of round but shouldn't have to do this with a so called premium mold. Guess I am getting lazy in my old age but sometimes I would just like to buy something and use as is rather than having to fix it first.

Here is hoping that the 2 cavity brass HP will be perfect.

[AnthonyB]

I am also unhappy with my mould after two casting sessions. I will try it with a ladle before I contact Miha; want to make sure I give it a good chance.
Tony

[AnthonyB]

Fellas, I made the post above late last night. This morning I had a PM from Miha asking how he could help. I never had any doubt that he would work with me; his PM proves it. I have another MP mould on the way and won't hesitate to order from him again.
Tony

[Gunsmoke]

Miha also answered my PM concerning the difficulties my 503 mold and it is going to be replaced. No doubt, this time, it will be right and I can be added to the list of happy customers.

[hamour]

My mold is one of the original runs with some offset and a slightly bowed sprue plate.

I used Lyman #2 alloy and Range scrap with 2.5% tin added.

These bullets had obvious out of round problems but the RCBS sizer took care of this.

Great bullets fell like rain once proper temp was reached.

8.5grs unique

Ruger 5 1/2" Single action
Ruger 5 1/2" RedHawk
S&W 4" Mod 29

All three guns shot these bullets great, some of the most accurate bullets I have ever fired.

I could wish for perfection, but there is no way I can shoot any better than what I am getting from these bullets now. So I have not sent any thing back to Miha. It aint broke so I am not fixing it.

[BigboreShooter]

Cast a bunch of bullets yesterday with my H&G 503 mould.
I had a build up of lead on the bottom of the sprue plate.So I tried to take the bolt out to remove the sprue plate, busted the bolt off!!!! Took my screw removal kit, broke the tap off in the bolt!!!!!!! Now I have a $100 aluminum paper weight!!!!
Why did this happen? Galling between the different metals?
I also have some NOE moulds, that removing the handle screws is very difficult.
I applied some anti-sieze compound on them,maybe it will help.

BigBoreShooter

[Dale53]

The hold down bolts on most of the sprue plates have a set screw to keep them from moving. If you try to remove the sprue plate screw without loosening the set screw you are in for trouble.

I like to lube my bolts. Further, I like to drop a lead shot down on the threads ahead of the set screw. This keeps you from damaging the threads with the set screw.

Anti-Seize should help immensely with the handle screws on the NOE mould.

I am sorry to hear of your problems. Maybe a machinist friend can offer you some help?? Or you can ask MiHec if he can help you (it would be well worth the cost to send it back if it is not beyond saving).

I would think that there would be enough room to drill out the original screw and go to the next biggest size. Good lubing is essential when using aluminum around heat. Dissimilar metals are prone to gall if not properly lubed. DO be sure and make sure the set screw is removed before proceeding.

Dale53

[crabo]

Cast a bunch of bullets yesterday with my H&G 503 mould.
I had a build up of lead on the bottom of the sprue plate.So I tried to take the bolt out to remove the sprue plate, busted the bolt off!!!! Took my screw removal kit, broke the tap off in the bolt!!!!!!! Now I have a $100 aluminum paper weight!!!!
Why did this happen? Galling between the different metals?
I also have some NOE moulds, that removing the handle screws is very difficult.
I applied some anti-sieze compound on them,maybe it will help.

BigBoreShooter

I had the same thing happen to my 68 H&G from MiHec. I haven't done anything about it yet, but I can't use the mold either. I made sure the set screw was way loose before I started backing it out. At least I cast up a bunch before I tried to take the bolt out.

[hamour]

I used the bullplate lube on all screws and so far have avoided this problem. I figured if it will keep lead from sticking to my plate it will work on screws.

[MiHec]

Thee are two ways of unscrewing thinks from aluminum

- first be sure to unscrew set screw
- tap on sprue plate bolt few times
- try to unscrew


if thinks won't go out try to

- first be sure to unscrew set screw
- heat the mold a little
- tap on sprue plate bolt few times
- try to unscrew

Hope it helps

[BigboreShooter]

I DID LOOSEN THE SET SCREW!!

BigBoreShooter

[crabo]

I loosened the set screw and the mold was still warm, but not so hot that I could not hold it in my bare hand. I have never heard about the tapping the screw before you loosen it. But I still have a mold that the second time I used it and tried to take the sprueplate bolt out, it twisted off. I could loosen it some, then it got tight, I tightened it back up and then reversed again and that's when it twisted off.

[R.C. Hatter]

:idea: In order to avoid the undesirable situation of stuck, or worse yet broken off bolts, in these expensive moulds, Sinclair International,Midway, and Brownells offer a copper based anti-seize lube called Loctite C5-A Anti-Seize Lube which comes in a 1 oz. tube
for about $6-7 + shipping. The product has a temperature range to 1800 degrees F, and is applicable to most metals, i.e. copper, brass, cast iron, steel and stainless steel.
While I have NOT tried this product, it sounds very worthwhile to try to avoid the above disasters described by other posts, and I do intend to try it. I hope this helps.

[R.C. Hatter]

:coffee: As I said in my precious post about the Loctite C-5 Anti-Seize lube, I intended to try it on my Mihec mould. I applied the compound to the threads on the handle pins, the sprue plate screw, and the sprue plate screw setscrew, using a small amount at each location. After two casting sessions, I disassembled the mould. There was NO galling, NO binding, NO hint of any threaded member binding. There was some minor stain on the bottom of the mould where some of the compound had leaked out around the handle pins due to heat. The stain was easily removed with Brasso. I consider the trial of the compound a success, and recommend it to those who wish to avoid the horrors of broken screws in posts previous to mine.

[lead_her_fly]

Going to bring this thread back up to the top. I just got one of these moulds, while new, it is second hand. GabbyM had an extra that he let me buy for the same original price.

The one I got from him was misaligned by .002" and it cast bullets that were .004" out of round by the micrometer but in actuality, they would have been perfectly round if aligned correctly.

I PM'd Miha, he sent new to me mould blocks the same day. I got them in short order and put them to work right away. This mould is much better and it casts bigger than most with wheel weights. I am going to use them in my Marlin and need them on the big side, .433" or better.

Trying to get bullets that size has been kind of a chore, not with this mould. What I need to do now is try some really hard alloy to see just how big this thing will cast.

Some things I ran into to get to finished products of loaded ammunition.

First, my sizing die, Lyman #450, was only .430". I took a 1/4" bolt and cut a slot in it, put some emery clothe, 320 grit, in it with some cutting oil and remedied that problem a little at a time. Now it is .433".

Then, I went to the reloading press. I have two different setups for 44Mag, one a Lee Classic Cast Turret Press with Lee dies and a Square Deal B. What I ran into is that the seating die was actually pushing the bullet deeper into the case with the stem completely removed! The top of the die had resized the front driving band to .430" too and I thought, THAT AIN'T GONNA GET IT! So, I took my "reamer" to it too. Because of the cost of new dies for the SDB, I haven't tried to modify them yet! ;)

I opened it up to .432" and now it just kisses the outside of the driving band.

Another thing that I noticed is that the nose of my boolits are deformed a bit. The seating post is shaped like a round nose and so are my loaded rounds! I left that alone and maybe it will help the bullet to feed in the Marlin.

My rifle has always chambered these kinds boolits but this one is a bit different. This one wants to hang up on the front driving band. If I work the action back just a tad, things go right together. One thing I have noticed is that you have to hold the rifle perfectly parallel to the ground in order for this to work. If you try to do the "gangsta" thing with it laying on it's side, you can forget it!

At any rate, I have a bunch of loads made up with 20.5gr of AA#9 and will be heading to the range today at some point.

You know, to keep things in perspective when it comes to moulds and such, have any of us ever gotten a Lee 6 cavity mould that didn't cast right the first time out? What about out of round bullets?

Listen, I have had both things come up with them. I had a 228gr LRN mould that I threw in the trash! It wasn't only out of round but was .454"! Now, you try to load that boolit in 45ACP for a M625JM and you are going to be out of luck, friend. I didn't "swear off" of Lee products, I just decided to make their quality assurance policy work. If I get something that doesn't work right, I send it back. With Miha, all I have had to do is send an email with my address in it! He took it from there and made things right.

The only thing I wish was that he was on this side of the pond! :)

(Hey Miha, ever think of immigrating? We need folks here that are productive citizens! :D )

More to come!

[lead_her_fly]

p.s. I wonder if Miha could make a bullet seating stem with the correct profile in it for the boolits he makes moulds for. Like the top punches he already makes only for the reloading process.

[MiHec]

p.s. I wonder if Miha could make a bullet seating stem with the correct profile in it for the boolits he makes moulds for. Like the top punches he already makes only for the reloading process.

I was thinking about that.
I need more data and info and timeeee. :-P

I use RCBS dies so for this one I have data...

[lead_her_fly]

I was thinking about that.
I need more data and info and timeeee. :-P

I use RCBS dies so for this one I have data...

Miha,
If I make a drawing of the stem in AutoCad would that help?

In DWG or DXF format?

[lead_her_fly]

Well, ever have one of those days where it is a comedy of errors? Guess what kind of day today was! [smilie=b:


At any rate, still no go on accuracy out of my Marlin. Now the M629 Classic with 5" barrel? Great! In fact, it shot about as good as the Marlin and it has a 3x9 scope on it!

So, I think I will go back to the drawing board. I'm gonna look into two things, a gas check design and an LBT or RNFP bullet. Something with more of the bullet that rides on the bore. With these slow twists, 1:38" I need more contact than what I get with the Keith style bullet. I know that is blasphemous for some of us casters. One thing though, this boolit worked GREAT in the 1:20" twist of the M629.

No velocity data to report as part of the "errors" was my Chrony needed a battery the last time I was out and I forgot to get one before I hit the range today! :groner:

The load was 20.5gr of AA#9 with a Wolf primer to light it off.

I am going to make these boolits a bunch harder and give it another go in the rifle. Any suggestions are welcome!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I like my 434640 I just had Miha make for my Marlin 1894 . . . better than the 503 . . . the semi-wadcutter seems to mess up the works in mine . . . but the 503 sure make pretty holes!

[lead_her_fly]

Shawn,

The "640" is a thought. I have to watch the cash flow for a tad. Just got 3 moulds this week! Gotta wait until it builds back up a bit.

Have you noticed any difference in flight between the solid or hollow point versions?

I think that things would be better if the Marlin had a faster twist. The handgun has a 1:20" or faster while the rifle has a 1:38".

Now, conventional wisdom is that the lighter boolits run in slower twists, I wonder how things work with handgun boolits. I know this rifle shoots 240gr XTP @ 1800fps just fine. Kind of frustrating that I cannot get my cast to shoot as well.

I will look into the "640". Any pet loads you use for it? What kind of velocity do you get out of your Marlin?

Thanks!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I'm not the best shot, but I'm still working on loads . . . nothing "pet" yet . . . don't have a chrono.

[longbow]

If I ever get time to load and shoot I will be running a comparison between the H&G #503 and the 434640 in my Marlin (1:38" twist microgroove; 0.4315" groove diameter).

I have both plus I have the Lyman 429421. My Marlin does not like semi wadcutters very much... or at least it didn't. I have modified the cartridge stop to allow longer OAL plus I have modified the carrier to center the SWC's up better. The shoulder was catching the chamber mouth.

Both modifications are easy and both have helped but I decided to get the 434640 as well since it is likely to give more dependable feeding.

Also, I lapped a couple or three tight spots out of the barrel which also helped. I read about tight spots being an issue on the Marlin owners site.

So far accuracy has been quite good with the H&G #503 but I have to do some more shooting.

I have been loading over IMR4227 mostly for my Marlin though I have used Blue Dot and H110.

I am hoping to have some groups to compare the H&G #503 to the 434640 soon. Both Mihec moulds are beautiful and cast perfectly.

Longbow

[MiHec]

Miha,
If I make a drawing of the stem in AutoCad would that help?

In DWG or DXF format?

Any format will do...

[lead_her_fly]

Any format will do...

Email will be sent this afternoon.

Here is a picture. In the file that I send, it will be dimensionally correct. Simply "dimension" it and you will have the sizes that I measured.

You can see that the finish is nothing to brag about. These plugs are tough while not hardened. They can be cut with a regular file but not a lot of material is taken off at a time.

If you need one to be sent to you, I will do that.