PP vs lube rings vs GC

[Lead Fred]

Im getting set to buy 45-70 moulds.

I know I want 50gr, and I was looking at the Postell style long disance boolit.

I started reading on paper patched, and did know they were smooth sided boolits.

Ill be shooting 45-70 out of a H&R 32in barrel.

Which of these non gas checked bullets is the further flyer?

Or is there a gas checked boolit Ive over looked?

Lee's 500gr 3R nould boasts a nice BC, none fo the others even list one.

and why in the heck are the sizers for 45-70 .457?

[montana_charlie]

and why in the heck are the sizers for 45-70 .457?
You're only looking at Lee sizers. Lyman dies go up to .459.

You haven't said if you plan to shoot paper, meat, or steel...and how far away you excect it to be. So, it's hard to suggest a good bullet.

The Postell is a proven long range design, and very few people claim to have good luck with the Lee 3R beyond about 300 yards.

Gas checks don't make 'em go far. They just allow them to go faster...which causes your shoulder blades to get closer together.

CM

[Lead Fred]

Paper, meat and steel

884 yards, 1/2 mile seems like a good ending point.
My range ony goes to 540, so anywhere in there.

and I bet your gonna tell me to slug the barrel

[runfiverun]

you know it..
a flatish point is what i'd use for hunting.
you can size down a soft alloy with g/grooves and use it to paper patch.
the slugged info is handy for that too.
start with your known size and take it a step at a time.
like a proper sizer for your bbl,ordering the proper sized mold for your alloy or manipulating your alloy some to make a better fitting projectile.
having an idea about how your throat is shaped would help immensely also.

[montana_charlie]

Paper, meat and steel

884 yards, 1/2 mile seems like a good ending point.
My range ony goes to 540, so anywhere in there.

and I bet your gonna tell me to slug the barrel
Naw, I'd tell you to slug that gal with the purple hair...

The Postell is a great paper bullet. If there is a better choice, it would be the mini-grooved Money bullet...the one with tapering bands.
For meat you want to make sure the alloy is 'soft', and most think a 480-ish grain flat nose does well.
For steel, you have a number of set ranges to consider, and some like to use a 385 grainer as their 'chicken bullet'.

So, if you are only in the market for one mould right now, what do you intend to shoot...paper, meat, or steel?

CM

[Lead Fred]

Looks like Im up for two moulds, paper and meat.

<--- and she will slug you back

[montana_charlie]

Looks like Im up for two moulds, paper and meat.

<--- and she will slug you back
Then, don't get physical...just explain what happens to trajectory when she cants the rifle like that...and has the scope turned off kilter in the rings.

You may not be up for a custom mould, but it doesn't cost to look at pictures.
There is a 480-grain 'hunter', and a Postell on this page...
http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/45_caliberpage2.htm

By the way, that old standby round-nosed 'government' bullet is blunt enough to kill stuff...and does pretty well at extreme ranges. I've seen dozens of advice comments suggesting it's about the best 'starter' bullet for the new 45/70 shooter.
Almost everybody cuts moulds for it.

If you order from Paul Jones, he WILL tell you to slug your bore...

CM

[softpoint]

Can't let my daughter see that avator, she loves the color purple. :smile:

[Lead Fred]

Can't let my daughter see that avator, she loves the color purple. :smile:

For your daughter

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab211/stallhorn/goth0.jpg

And Im sure they didnt give her any bullets for the picture

MC most likely Ill slug it, and have a custom mould made later on down the road.

Right Now I just want a paper puncher ti see how the rifle will do with a production mould.

Lyman has a few good ones. Just trying to figure out which one to start with.

Ill make 200 yard loads, when Im there, Ill move out.

If I dont get what I want from a production mould, Then Ill go to one of several custom ones Ive looked into.

[montana_charlie]

And Im sure they didnt give her any bullets for the picture.
Oh! I assumed that you know her, and that you took the picture...
CM

[Lead Fred]

If I knew her, Id be way to busy to type in forums [smilie=p:

[runfiverun]

i think i saw that movie,as apparently had littlegirl.
she's already tried that hair dye. and is now back to red/orange.
can't say too much to her though as her gpa is still 3.5 ,be better if she'd get her biology grade up some.

[montana_charlie]

If I knew her, Id be way to busy to type in forums
I see. Well, your taste in women sure differs from mine.
My idea of 'attractive metal' runs more toward a well-balanced pair of spurs, rather than a platinum spike stabbed through the lower lip...or wherever.

CM

[Lead Fred]

Are you kidding, I can take her riding on my hog, or to the range.

Dont have to worry about other guys bugging her.

and the best part it, if she gives me lip, I snack her in the back of the head, and that stud impales the wall, and I know right where she is, all the time [smilie=l:

Besides those spurs can rip a guy up

[Cowboy5780]

Just send her to me if noone wants her i damn sure do lol.

[Lead Fred]

MC it looks like a toss up for a paper mould

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=80

or


http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=77

It seems the Postell is a bit more popular.

Then later on when I can hit stuff

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=75

for meat

What sez you

[montana_charlie]

I haven't made any suggestions as something for paper patching. The ones at your links are greasers.
I have seen some who like the Schmittzer, but (if I recall) it was for 'mid-range' work as found in BPCS ('S' stands for 'silhouette'). I think the pointy nose is to keep the velocity up so the trajectory flattens a bit. But the pointy types don't seem to make it past 500-600 without going haywire.

If you want a paper patch mould, get with Red River Rick. His are as good as any custom maker you can name.
But, you will need to know a lot about your rifle before you can pick a particular diameter.

CM

[Lead Fred]

Im looking at greasers to get the ball rolling, and our range only goes to 540 with a mountain goat a top a berm.

I think Im going to aim for that as my starting point (yes thats a pun).

I want to read more on PP. Ive found base pour, and you have shown me nose pour. Before I spend the bucks, I will slug the bore, and mic the chamber, and have a custom one made later.

Right now Im waiting on a bow to be finshed, I ordered it in June. The guy said 6 weeks. Then he broke his shoulder, and wont give me my money back. Im waiting on my check maker for my 30 cal boolits.

Im tired of waiting, I wanna shoot something NOW :bigsmyl2:

[Lead Fred]

Update:

I just got a e-mail back from Lyman.

Here are the BCs for their boolits

#457191 - .201

#457193 - .307

#457658 - .372

#457125 - .391

#457132 - .402 <--- Postell

Lee

#459-500-3R - .443

Narrows the field for midrange casting

[montana_charlie]

The Money bullet (and the PGT) runs above .5 but BC isn't everything to consider.

Comparing the 457125 and 457132...
At a given range of (say) 800 yards, the Postell will need a bit less elevation in the rear sight to put it on the target. If the wind gets 'twitchy' enough that it's hard to adjust for, the '132 will get blown off line a bit less than the '125.

But when conditions are 'nice', both bullets are capable of the same basic accuracy at 800 yards (it does matter which one of them the rifle handles best).
It is mainly in that 200 yards between 800 and 1000 that the difference becomes most noticeable. You might need a taller rear sight to get the '125 all the way out there.

But compare them with the Lee 3R.

In discussions I have read (not participated in) users of that bullet leave me with the impression that it probably wouldn't even hit paper at 800 yards...in spite of it's higher BC. Somewhere between 500 and 800 it forgets where it's going.
Maybe...just maybe...it could be kept stabile if the velocity could remain high. But, I'm not the ballistician who can expound on that theory.

The other bullets (both of them) have proven ability to go that far, at BP-typical muzzle velocities, without getting lost.
CM

[TAWILDCATT]

why not the Lee 459-500-3R.withBC=.443.and its 2 cavity. for $18.you get to shoot ,if any one has the mold.and learn what it will do.
What range are you going to shoot deer or whatever.

[Lead Fred]

I would not buy the Lee, just throw it in there for a comparison.

I now have lots of things to think about, thanks