357 and 2400, why did I ever try anything else?

[bootsnthejeep]

Fascinated and enamored with the writings of St. Skeeter, the first handload I ever tried in my brandy-new 4" stainless 686 was the 358156 over 14 grains of 2400. Would shoot big one hole groups, and I never looked back. Would load once a year on my dad's machine when I was home for Thanksgiving or Christmas, 1000 rounds at a time.

For a while I lost interest in casting. Been gathering up wheelweights and getting back into it with a vengeance this year. And acquired a NOS 358429, as I'm now not only a devotee of St. Skeeter, but also St. Elmer.

Holy HELL. Per the recommendation of some here, 13.5 grains of 2400 under that bullet, WW, water dropped, shot like it had a LASER BEAM on it out of the same Smith. And it was a LIGHTNING strike on whatever I was shooting with it. I'd shot some 158 grain bullets with the same charge of 2400, they were shooting clean holes in the tin can I was shooting at. The first 170 grain that connected damn near turned the can inside out. Blew the label off. Next shot, at just the label on the dirt bank, turned it into confetti. Further shots at the can almost shredded it. Can't believe the damage that round will inflict.

I'm SOLD. I'm not canning my Ray Thompson mould anytime soon, but there's gonna be a SLUG of those Keith bullets run out as soon as my Bullplate comes in.

I've done runs of Unique and Bullseye and Bluedot. They all did ok. Oh, 2400, why did I ever stray??

Wonder if you can get that stuff in a 55 gallon drum?

Boots

[Jack Stanley]

Why did you stray ?? That's easy .... you have an affliction known as restless loading press syndrom . Sufferers are known to have feelings of such affection for the loading process , they soon start making excuses of why they should load more ammo . Reasons include wanting to make "practice" ammo or "training young shooter" ammo or the infamous "plinking" ammo .

With your admission of including yet another bullet mould you are only expressing how far the sickness has spread . There is yet hope for you and I'm willing to step up and help out . The only known cure is to get back to your first love of 2400 , the Thompson bullet and .357 cases . All the rest of that stuff ... the extra bullet mold , the powders and any .38 cases you have just pack up into flat rate boxes and ship to my address . I will put them to work with the poor and needy who cannot afford to buy the items you have to feed their sickness properly .

Please note I do not charge for the service of collecting or distributing the items

:bigsmyl2:Jack

[Char-Gar]

YOu have heard a thousand times the old saw.. "If it ain't broke don't fix it!". With 50 years of handgun loading under my belt I still use 2400 for Magnum loads (357 and 44), Unique for mid-range loads in many calibers and Bullseye for target loads in many calibers.

I buy these three by the eight pound jugs and see no reason to stock any other powders for handguns. The powder makers other than Hercules/Alliant are very glad I am a strange old fashioned fellow and other shooters are still searching for the Holy Grail of powders.

[sundog]

Charles, you old stick in the mud! Ya gotta embrace technology, son! There your living in the lap of luxury in one of the greatest country's God ever made, Tejas. And still you keep to the old ways. Good on ya, I say. You are not very far from #1 daughter. Which brings me to my next item. Since you are so set in your ways, which I most emphatically endorse, would you care if we should shoot together on the next occasion to visit your area? We should shoot some bulls and some boolits. A feller could do a whole lot worse!

[dk17hmr]

Im a big fan of the 358429 bullet. I use it in my 38's with Unique and my 357 with H110.
I had a 358156 for a while and just didnt like the fact it was a gascheck mold. I used it tumble lubed instead without a gascheck in my 38's and it shot pretty darn good that way.

[9.3X62AL]

#358156 has been a long-time favorite of mine, #358429 came about more recently. It's a fine one, as well. Alliant 2400 might be my most-used powder, serving for 410 shotshells--cast boolit Magnum handgun rounds--and much of my cast boolit rifle work.

I imagine about a zillion other Old School reloaders will make similar comments here.

[bootsnthejeep]

I think I could get by with just 2400, Unique, and Bullseye. Everything else is just fluff. I should start buying the kegs of it.

I tried the 358429 in the 38 special over 5 grains of Unique, very pleasant to shoot, fairly accurate too. I haven't shot any of these on paper, just going by "minute of soup can", but I hardly ever shoot at anything off a bench, always offhand and usually not shooting at anything smaller than that, so it works out. But these show promise.

Anyway, like I said, I just went thru and tuned up, cleaned and kroiled several of my moulds, as soon as the bullplate shows up I'm going to town. Gonna cast till my hands won't hold the mould anymore. I'm excited.

[softpoint]

I can agree on the 2400-Unique-Bullseye combination. Although I have been using a lot of Herco for the medium burn rate. Works better in the shotshells I load, works as good as Unique in my pistols:redneck:

[looseprojectile]

I have bought H240 which is surplus 2400 for fifty cents a pound in the middle to late fiftys. The store would put as much as ten pounds in a paper bag. I sent many pounds downrange.
2400 doesn't burn as well as other powders like AA#9 or H110 or 296. Was always accurate and the more you cramed in the better it shot. Did I say it was cheap?
Course this was before you could buy ammo with jacketed bullets in pistol rounds like .357mag. My concern was to eliminate leading caused by pure lead bullets. Solved that with harder alloys and gas checks.
I would not hesitate to tout 2400 to anyone loading .357s or .44s. Also works quite well in rifle cast boolit loads.

Life is good

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Been using 2400 in my 357/44 mags for +40 years, and I see no reason to switch....good choice.

[USSR]

Been using 13.5gr of 2400 and 5.0gr of Unique (.38 case) with the 358429 for the past 30 years. See no reason to change. Just found another use for 2400: cast bullets for the .30 Carbine.

Don

[Ben]

Ditto with Deptuy Al's remarks. I like my 2400 ! ! !

Ben

[sheepdog]

14 grains of 2400? Will that even fit in a 357 mag case uncompressed?

[Gohon]

14 grains of 2400? Will that even fit in a 357 mag case uncompressed?
Depends on the particular bullet design. Lee C358-158-SWC/GC sits right on top of the 14.5 grains of 2400 I shoot from a Marlin 1894C but the load is not compressed. Lee 358-158-RF will actually sit a fraction above the powder column with 15 grains of 2400 under it. Both loads shoot great in the rifle with good accuracy and no leading and no signs of high pressure. Not sure I'd want to try to hang onto a revolver with them though.

[watkibe]

I think I should take this thread as a sign, ha ha. I have always used Unique and H110 exclusively for my 357, 41, and 44 mags. (I had a brief fling with Bullseye, but I hate to admit it.)
I don't know if I have the restless reloader syndrome as mentioned above, or if I have been coming up with good reasons, but the result is I have been thinking about switching from
H110 to 2400.
I read a post the other day where a guy said he didn't like "the drama" that came with loading H110. I don't know exactly what he means, but I have noticed that you have to have the case full, but not too full, with H110. There is a fine line between enough and too much. Some data says "use exactly as shown" and other say "do not reduce more than 3%", while other data just shows a starting and max load. I'm always a little nervouse when I try a new load.
So next time I can find some, I think I will get a can of 2400 and try it out. Besides, I remember when Skeeter and Elmer had new articles out every month, and 2400 was usually featured. I picked up a lot of their other advice, I don't know why I skipped over this.

[sniper]

WHY did you stray? Because you could! The saints Skeeter and Elmer will probably forgive you, if you go and sin no more! :mrgreen: I, too have settled on that particular load, or as close to it as my powder measure and bushings will get me!8-)
Enjoy!

My brother-in-law has a most unique way of using 2400...fills the .357 case, levels the top, and seats the boolit . He uses a Ruger Blackhawk, which explains his continued residence on this earth, (he is 86) and when he touches it off, it is a spectacular sight! I do NOT recommend trying that at home! :eek:

[shooting on a shoestring]

Several years ago when my chronograph was new, I burned a pound of pretty well everything on the gunshop shelves. Looked at position sensitivity, shot to shot deviation, extreme spread, SDEVs, group size, leading etc... Now I shoot Bullseye, Herco and 2400 for close to %90 of my revovler rounds. Occasionally I load some H110 in .357, or play with Longshot, BlueDot or Lil'Gun for ??? for??? Yep, then I load Bullseye, Herco and 2400 for fast, faster and fastest.

[bootsnthejeep]

My brother-in-law has a most unique way of using 2400...fills the .357 case, levels the top, and seats the boolit . He uses a Ruger Blackhawk, which explains his continued residence on this earth, (he is 86) and when he touches it off, it is a spectacular sight! I do NOT recommend trying that at home! :eek:

:holysheep

I always thought the 14 grain load was plenty stout, and heard of people running 15 but never felt the need to try. That's got to be close to 18 there. Oy vey.

I never gave much though to it, that load shot great for me so I kept with it. We were Jeepin in Northern Maine and we stopped at a gravel pit to have lunch and I unlimbered the Smith and did some shooting. My buddy's wife came over to me with her eyes almost falling out of her head (and struggling to get her fingers out of her ears) and said "Do you have any idea how much FLAME comes out the end of that when you shoot?" Out of a 4" barrel, I guess that charge of 2400 burns halfway to the target!

Of course, that statement she made was quickly followed by "Can I try it?!?"

[That'll Do]

:holysheep

I always thought the 14 grain load was plenty stout, and heard of people running 15 but never felt the need to try. That's got to be close to 18 there. Oy vey.

I never gave much though to it, that load shot great for me so I kept with it. We were Jeepin in Northern Maine and we stopped at a gravel pit to have lunch and I unlimbered the Smith and did some shooting. My buddy's wife came over to me with her eyes almost falling out of her head (and struggling to get her fingers out of her ears) and said "Do you have any idea how much FLAME comes out the end of that when you shoot?" Out of a 4" barrel, I guess that charge of 2400 burns halfway to the target!

Of course, that statement she made was quickly followed by "Can I try it?!?"

Same here. When I initially worked up the load for a 158gr LSWC and 2400, I started at 11.5gr and made it to 14gr–at that point I said "no more!" (13.5gr is just right for me). I could only imagine what 18gr of 2400 would feel like being touched off! Yikes!:shock:

[sniper]

Of course, that statement she made was quickly followed by "Can I try it?!?"


Funny how often that happens, isn't it? :mrgreen:

[vanilla_gorilla]

Same here. When I initially worked up the load for a 158gr LSWC and 2400, I started at 11.5gr and made it to 14gr–at that point I said "no more!" (13.5gr is just right for me). I could only imagine what 18gr of 2400 would feel like being touched off! Yikes!:shock:

Being the kind that cannot be told anything (just ask my old man), I felt the need to try anything with 2400. I love it. Don't even want to touch 110/296. When I got into 357 Magnums, I only used N frame S&Ws anyway, wasn't too worried about blowing a cylinder. I did up to 15 grains of 2400 and 158s with that one, though I quickly backed down to 14.5. Fifteen grains just wasn't worth the extra perceived recoil and incredibly obnoxious blast, for the return.

Even with the 358429 boolits, I just had to run it as fast as I could. I've backed off a bit now, but that's probably just due to running short of 2400. :-P

Oh yeah, for the 44s, 21 grains of 2400 and a Keith bullet makes for a LOAD of fun. I guess I got a bit of Elmer's blood running in me.

[Bret4207]

Some things just plain WORK. Estwing Hammers, Collins axes, Dolmar chainsaws, Toyota pickups and the 358156 and 429. They may not be fancy, they aren't "cutting edge" and they don't need special lubes/powder/GC's or virgins sacrificed under a full moon to work right. I wish the cylinder on an "N" frame was just a wee bit longer but since I can control the seating depth and make it fit I'm okay. Using Special or Mag brass I can load from 650-700 fps with BE for my j frame Bodyguard to screaming wrist wrenchers with 2400 for the M-28.

It just works and you can't ask for more than that.

[curiousgeorge]

Well, I guess I qualify as another old-timer.

Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 in the .38 Special and .357 mag with the H & G #68, 358429, and 358156. Bullseye - 2.7grs and the wadcutter / Unique - 5.0 grs & the 358429 / 2400 - 13.5 grs and the 358156.

To my shame, have not tried the 358429 with the 13.5 of 2400. Started with a model 28 which would not chamber when bullet seated in crimp groove. That gun long gone when I switched to all Rugers, but never changed the heavy load over to the Kieth boolit. Something to try this winter.

[That'll Do]

Being the kind that cannot be told anything (just ask my old man), I felt the need to try anything with 2400. I love it. Don't even want to touch 110/296. When I got into 357 Magnums, I only used N frame S&Ws anyway, wasn't too worried about blowing a cylinder. I did up to 15 grains of 2400 and 158s with that one, though I quickly backed down to 14.5. Fifteen grains just wasn't worth the extra perceived recoil and incredibly obnoxious blast, for the return.

Even with the 358429 boolits, I just had to run it as fast as I could. I've backed off a bit now, but that's probably just due to running short of 2400. :-P

Oh yeah, for the 44s, 21 grains of 2400 and a Keith bullet makes for a LOAD of fun. I guess I got a bit of Elmer's blood running in me.

I know what you mean. I had dabbled with W296, working up loads for attacking paper and steel plates/pepper poppers, but I was never really, really *satisfied* with the results. Yes, it was accurate, but there wasn't much "wiggle room". The more I use 2400 in the 357, the more I love it (so much so that I acquired a 4# jug of it:-).

296 may be cleaner, but 2400 gives me room to experiment, without the narrow "therapeutic index" of H-110/W296. I am an official drinker of the 2400 Kool-aid, and it is good (although I'm always open to new powder/boolit combos)!

[bootsnthejeep]

I'm getting awful close to the bottom of my current jug of 2400. This will need to be rectified immediately, if not sooner!

[Jal5]

I tried using 2400 with 158 SWC for the first time after reading all these posts. WOW. I thought I was shooting good groups with Unique midrange loads, but these loads with 2400 were great and I was not even near max load! 3 shots cloverleafed plus one 1.5 in. above the group. I am looking forward to more load development with this powder.:smile:

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

To reiterate Bret's comments--the stuff just plain works.

[1Shirt]

My standard load for both my Ruger and my 94 win in 357 is 12.5 gr. of 2400. Does any thing I want accurately. One of the great all around powders.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[1Shirt]

OOPs, I screwed up and did not list blts. 170 Kieth, 190 Ranch Dog, or 158 Thompson. The 190 is a very hot load and should be approached slowly starting at about 11.5.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[geargnasher]

Since 2400 has worked with magums better than anything else for the last few thousand years, I guess either "clean" isn't a factor by which it's judged or I'm completely doing something wrong. I have tried using it in .357 and .44 Mag and after 2-3 cylinder-fulls I have to brush out the cylinder to get the fresh rounds to chamber due to all the (presumably) unburned black granules coating everything. This is somewhat alleviated by pointing the gun UP when ejecting cases so the stuff doesn't fall out of the brass, but still a pain. I really DID like the performance, especially with .44 and an old Ideal Keith hp mould I have (hemispherical lube groove, not keystone like the original) but not worth the mess. Any tips on how to make this stuff burn?

Gear

[Jal5]

While I am liking the accuracy with 2400 I think its dirty too at least as compared with Unique. I have used several different boolits now including 158 LSWC and the 174gr boolit NOE360180GC.

Joe

[vanilla_gorilla]

Since 2400 has worked with magums better than anything else for the last few thousand years, I guess either "clean" isn't a factor by which it's judged or I'm completely doing something wrong. I have tried using it in .357 and .44 Mag and after 2-3 cylinder-fulls I have to brush out the cylinder to get the fresh rounds to chamber due to all the (presumably) unburned black granules coating everything. This is somewhat alleviated by pointing the gun UP when ejecting cases so the stuff doesn't fall out of the brass, but still a pain. I really DID like the performance, especially with .44 and an old Ideal Keith hp mould I have (hemispherical lube groove, not keystone like the original) but not worth the mess. Any tips on how to make this stuff burn?

Gear

2400 isn't EVER going to be "clean" in the sense some other powders can be. It will never rival Titegroup for leaving a clean gun.

2400 needs two things to work at it's best: Heavy loads and strong crimp. The closer to max the load is, the cleaner and more completely it burns. It also needs every bit of crimp you can manage to put on those necks.

That's my experience, in loading the powder for .357 and .44.

[Rex]

Smokeless powder isn't dirty.........try running BLACK for a while.
Rex

[9.3X62AL]

I've run some intrepid 357 loads in my Bisley Blackhawk, and I've also observed that 2400 cleans up right nicely when it gets to run at full steam. "Intrepid" means enough 2400 on board to prompt 1400 FPS from Lyman #358430 (195 RN), almost 1500 from the 357Max 180 grain RFN Group Buy Boolit, and close to 1600 from #358156. I WON'T COUGH UP THE DATA, but will say that all are "loaded long" to allow more powder capacity, and that CCI 550 primers gave more consistent velocities once the powder started getting compressed. Nicely, the casings fell free from the chambers with the muzzle turned up, too. RUGERS ROCK!

Kids, don't try this at home.

[geargnasher]

Thanks for clearing that up, I've been working up loads to within a grain or so of max for both the .357 and .44, and that is published max which is a bit anemic by the condition of the primers, leftover crimp, and velocity I've been getting. Seems I need to keep adding fuel.

Blue Dot does the same thing for me, work up until no more leftover charred flakes in the case and I'm usually at the ideal pressure.

Gear