Need some help friends

[jlucht01]

I just shot my first bunch of cast boolits. Leaded up my Ruger p95 9MM horribly bad. I still don't have all the lead out of the barrel. I have some Kroil on the way, i'll just soak the barrel in that for a couple of hours.

I am at work so I can't give you seat specs but im using the Lee TL356 2 cavity mold with range scrap. I do not have a hardness tester so I really don't know where i am sitting with hardness. I am dropping boolits between .3565 and .3575 weighing 131 grns sitting on top of 4.6 grns of unique. My primer is showing signs of pressure and it has a very nasty recoil. Im going to lighten the load. Should this help with the leading?

I am a little nervous about slugging my barrel, it don't seem natural to pound a slug into your barrel, but I think i am going to have to do it. What is the best thing to use to slug the barrel? I watched some videos of them using a blackpowder ball to do it, I don't have any of those, I shoot jacketed.

Im lost and depressed any help would be appreciated!!

Joe

[Will]

Try using one of your 356 boolits it may tell you something. Your lead is probably too soft, try using WW or some lino. I use WW and have never had a leading problem. Be sure your getting a good coat of lube on those TL boolits.

[jlucht01]

Im using straight Alox and they are coming a nice poopey brown. I don't wipe any lube off. I'll try one of those when i get home and see how it fits.. won't it be a little hard measuring off those Tumble lube groves?

I don't have access to wheel weights or lino. All the tire places around here horde them to turn in for scrap.

Thanks
joe

[docone31]

I pan lube.
I have never had any luck with Alox. I pan lube, size at .356, and have not had any issues since.

[fredj338]

Range scrap varies a lot, but it's closer to pure lead than ww. Your bullet's wt. is pretty heavy, 5% above mold wt, soft. You can try water dropping, but if there isn't much antimony it won't harden much. Your alloy is too soft fot the vel. you are pushing, about 1100fps. You can try adding bar solder or tin to "Stiffen" the alloy up, 25-1 ratio will work w/ tin ot 95/5 solder. it should also bump the size up a bit. The softer bullet is minimal in size as cast. You need to bump up to at least 0.356" consistantly. Double coat w/ Alox & see how they run.

[Nate1778]

I am going to go the opposite on this one. I don't have manuals in front me but looked at some data at Handloads.com. Over there guys have posted 5.4g Unique behind a 125g lead bullet as a start load with a finish of 6g producing 1,165fps. Next higher was 136g bullet and 4.1g and listed at a mild load around 980 fps. If I was you I would bump it up a bit. I have a feeling that the load is not sealing in the barrel and your getting excessive leading.

I have tried the same bullet in my G19 with Unique and had very little leading, mind you it was more than I wanted but still for a Glock barrel wasn't bad.

Other things to try, double lube, also might water drop the boolits.

what were some of the pressure signs in the primer? Sometimes things that look like pressure signs are not what they appear. Keep in mind 9mm is a high pressure gun.

[mike in co]

where did the load come from ?
what is the length of the boolit
what oal are you using ?

you must slug your bore......you need to be 1 to2 thou over on your sizing
.

my guess is you are pushing a soft boolit way too fast.


mike in co

[jlucht01]

The primer is flat... when I say flat i mean it looks like a silver dot in the middle of a brass plate. I even had one that looked as if it burned through. I shot 30 of those.. 2 x 15 mags. I examined the casings and the barrel. It was not pretty.

I am water dropping just because i was getting dents in the nose of the boolits from dropping them on an old tshirt. In this last bunch i made, i added 1 oz of soldier per 1.5lb ingot which comes close to 5% but i think it was 60\40 soldier.

[jdgabbard]

Well, for what its worth I'm going to disagree with all above!!!

My Lyman manual show the 120g 356242 with 4.0g unique at 1013 fps with max at 5.0g for 1154!!! And the 125g 358093 with a starting load of 3.4g Unique for 1004 fps, and max load of 4.5g for 1195!!!

My guess, your over maximum!!! That is why the pressure is something fierce!!! And have you been sizing your boolits??? You probably should try sizing them to .356. I know the Lee booklets tell you most times you shouldn't need to. But they are saying MOST TIMES. I believe everyone should size their boollits to the diameter their guns need. Give it a try, and for your own sake, drop the charge of that load!!!

[jlucht01]

Mike, the load came from Seirra bullet. Its an older book but is still in line with alot of the loads out of the newest lyman manual. The length i am unsure of(I am at work right now) but i can check when i go home on lunch in about 45 mins.

Mike, can i slug it with a tumble lube boolit?

[jlucht01]

jbg, i am definitely dropping the load.. The pressure is going to blow up my gun. I don't' have a sizer die for .356 yet, but i guess i will get one. I can load manufactured bullets until then. how does sizing tumble lube boolits work? does it cut the grooves off?

[jdgabbard]

No, most times the grooves are about the right size. If anything it just flattens them out a little. But you definately should slug your gun, and find out what sizer you need. You may need as small as a .355 and as large as a .358. There is LOTS of variety when it comes to the bores of 9mms. Like mike said. To soft, too fast, and maybe to large of a boolit could be giving you nasty pressure levels. It sounds to me like you're definitely over max pressure tho. I've used range lead before in a 9mm without leading. That doesn't mean my alloy is close to your's, or my load was either. I cant remember off hand.

Long story short, save yourself the headache and financial woes of a blown up gun, and possible doctor's visit. Lower your charge and slug your barrel. That will tell you exactly where you should go.

[sqlbullet]

Early on I has some of my .401 TL bullets come though the sizer with no lube groove left on the two sides (opposite sides, 90° from the seam). This was becuase these bullets where case while there was a bugger in the vent lines preventing my mold from closing, and were falling .408-.410.

For the .0005 to .0015 you will be sizing, you won't notice a thing. Apply a light coat of lube, then size when dry, then your second light coat of lube, and shoot.

However, leading is most often caused by bullets that are undersized and too hard. Becuase you are using range scrap, too hard is not really suspect, although you don't mention if they are air cooled or water dropped. I would certainly slug the bore before I decided to size them down.

Also, keep in mind that with softer projectiles, you may be 'sizing' your bullets during the taper crimp. If you are applying a strong or heavy taper crimp, it can reduce the projectile diameter. Your crimp should just barely iron out any bell used to facilitate seating.

[runfiverun]

if they are chambering forget the sizing.
back the load down, and possibly try two thinner coats of lube.

[jlucht01]

After inspecting the boolits i didn't shoot, i noticed that it had almost a curl inward on the crimp. I believe i was over crimping the round. I raised my seating die and lowered the seat and wah-la I have a ridge on the shell again that isn't digging into the lead. I backed the round down to 3.8 grs of unique. I'll give them a shot when i get home. There is a squirrel that has tried my patience... it chewed my cable line for the last time...I think i will invite it for dinner.

Ps.. yes, I reloaded a box of fifty on my lunch break... I live close to work.

Joe

[OutHuntn84]

To soft, too fast, and maybe to large of a boolit could be giving you nasty pressure levels. It sounds to me like you're definitely over max pressure tho.

This is absolutely correct. From what you described your bullet is to soft and being "melted" by your hot charge causing excessive leading and pressure! Unless you know all the little details about the hardness of your boolit always start with lower charges monitor your barrel and cases and slowly move up from there. Check all the specs on the brass you have already shot and look for cracks, bulging and that your primer pocket and flash hole haven’t expanded. Also when using tumble lube boolits you can lube, size, re-lube then leave them over night. When you go out and test your new loads I wouldn't make it a habit of blasting 30 rounds off before checking cases and barrel.

[scrapcan]

Also be very careful with you seating depth and keep you seating die clean. lube build up can and will cause you to seat deeper than intended. The deeper seating of the bullet can raise pressures dramatically in the 9mm and 40. These two cartridges (plus a few more) are not not fo rthe faint of haeart or the beginner as they can be difficult. But once you get a load that works you will have a lot of fun.

I had a P89 that was alot of fun to shoot because it was accurate, I sold it because it just never felt right. It always felt Like I was holding a 2x4.

[454PB]

One of the easiest barrels to slug is one from a semi-auto.

Hold the barrel in your left hand with the muzzle placed on a folded towel for padding. Drop an oversized oiled slug in the chamber, then use a brass rod of 1/4" to 5/16" diameter to drive the slug through. You can actually hold the barrel and the brass rod at the same time with the same hand. Once it's to the muzzle, lift the barrel off the towel and give it one more whack, the slug will drop out on the towel.

My P-85 and P-89 both slug at .355", but I size to .357".

[fredj338]

After inspecting the boolits i didn't shoot, i noticed that it had almost a curl inward on the crimp. I believe i was over crimping the round. I raised my seating die and lowered the seat and wah-la I have a ridge on the shell again that isn't digging into the lead. I backed the round down to 3.8 grs of unique. I'll give them a shot when i get home. There is a squirrel that has tried my patience... it chewed my cable line for the last time...I think i will invite it for dinner.

Ps.. yes, I reloaded a box of fifty on my lunch break... I live close to work.

Joe
You are on the right track, but 4.6gr is not over pressure, at least in my guns w/ my bullets & OAL. I've gone all the way to 5gr for about 1200fps in my G17 w/ LW bbl. I shoot a Saeco 125grTC cast of ww seated 1.055" OAL. Yes it is max., maybe into +p but safe in several 9mm I shoot it from. Your taper crimp should not be visible, just straighten the case out. 3.5gr charge won't even cycle my slide, 4gr runs about 1000fps.
Sierra never published lead bullet data to my knowledge. You ALWAYS load lead bullets w/ a lighter charge than jacketed, 5% off jacketed is about right. I'm sticking w/ too soft (also too heavy) & slightly undersized.

[jlucht01]

What would be the best\cheapest way to harden up what I have? Mine is seated to 1.059" I am going to shoot a couple when i get home. I didn't reload 50 rounds of what i modified. I loaded up some manufactured rounds I had so I have some thing to shoot with little worry. Thanks People.. I have some stuff to work on thats for sure.

Joe

[carpetman]

jlucht01---What would be the best\cheapest way to harden up what I have? ******???

[jlucht01]

Thank CarpetMan... I'll throw some in my pot right away... oh wait... I don't have a prescription for that.. do you have some I can use?

[Who's this Guy ?]

I shoot cast 9mm bullets out of my Sig P6 and they started leading the barrel quite a bit so I backed off the charge a little and now get better accuracy along with less leading of the bore. My bullets were home cast and a little softer than norm and Lee Alox was used. My cases weren't showing signs of over preasure and their wasn't intolerable recoil either. I just needed to find the right combination of things to get it all to work right. Jacketed bullets tend not to have as many issues.

[OutHuntn84]

I dont think there is really a shade tree fix to this. You have pretty much pure lead which meand no antimony or tin to harden things up and that means water droping would not help you. IMHO your best bet is to throw in some lino type to harden it up, then try again...carefully.

[fredj338]

What would be the best\cheapest way to harden up what I have? Mine is seated to 1.059" I am going to shoot a couple when i get home. I didn't reload 50 rounds of what i modified. I loaded up some manufactured rounds I had so I have some thing to shoot with little worry. Thanks People.. I have some stuff to work on thats for sure.

Joe
Well, as I stated earlier, adding tin (bar solder) will help a bit. A 20-1 mix (range lead/tin) should help. It will also make them a bit larger in diameter. If you don't have a local source, try Rotometals. You could add lino & then water drop. I would go 3-1 w/ the lino.

[jdgabbard]

I think with the range lead you'll be ok. If anything purchase some ww alloy, and mix it 50/50. This is what a lot of people do for 9mm. Your charge, powder type, and size is going to have a log to do with the leading too. Not to mention the lube you use...

[bruce drake]

Unique
124gr
Max Weight 5.8 gr
fps 1,180

I use this load in a Taurus PT99AS with no leading. I started with 4.6gr of Unique and the Lee 124gr TC just tumbled along at 25 and 50 yards. Boolit was going to slow to stabilize.

I double coat with LLA and have no issues with leading either.

Bumping up the speed of the bullet had it match up with the Taurus barrels rifling and the tumbling stopped. No issues with primers flattening either. I use CCI Milspec primers.

Bruce

[fredj338]

Unique
124gr
Max Weight 5.8 gr
fps 1,180

I use this load in a Taurus PT99AS with no leading. I started with 4.6gr of Unique and the Lee 124gr TC just tumbled along at 25 and 50 yards. Boolit was going to slow to stabilize.

I double coat with LLA and have no issues with leading either.

Bumping up the speed of the bullet had it match up with the Taurus barrels rifling and the tumbling stopped. No issues with primers flattening either. I use CCI Milspec primers.

Bruce
I will say, depending on your OAL, that is a very, very warm load. In my BHP, @ 5gr it's pushing right into 1200fps.