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View Full Version : Casting for .222... even for .35...



Finn45
04-21-2006, 08:46 AM
Mold suggestions for .222 Rem? Present or discontinued, some oldies are available occasionally. I feel that I've been lucky with .30 and .45 calibers, so whatta heck, must try some a$$ spanking with something supposedly difficult. Actually one of my friends here asked about casting for .222 and then I remembered that there's one old (around -52) birch stocked Sako in my father-in-law's safe... It has cracked stock and pretty corroded barrel (shiny looking but like etched), but it shoots jacketed about alright.

If I'm going to get in to .35 caliber, which happens somewhere after many years to the eternity, which mold, present or discontinued, would be the "must have" for .35Whelen or .358Win?

Time to start waving the tail... slowly...:mrgreen:

beagle
04-21-2006, 09:59 AM
The .222... has to be a Lyman 225415. Dependent on twist, I've found that the 225415s will usually outshoot the RCBS 22-55-SP because of length. Either should do it for you.

The .35.... For a production mould, look for a RCBS 35-200-FN. If you want BIG, look for a 3589 or 358009 Lyman or clone. This gives you about a 280-290 grainer. For a middle of the road compromise, grab a Saeco. I forget the number so you'll have to look. The ones I had were 256 grains and shot right decently.

Just MHO./beagle

jpb
04-21-2006, 11:20 AM
I have the RCBS 35-200-FN for my .358 Norma Mag.

It casts very easily, and is very accurate.

Cheers from one of few Swedish casters (I'm in UmeƄ across the Baltic).

I have been thinking of starting to cast for my .222 Rem (a 1964 Sako Vixen of course!) so I've saved the info above regarding which mold to get! Small world...:)

John

HORNET
04-21-2006, 12:21 PM
I agree on the rcbs 35-200-FN for the 35 cal choice but gotta disagree on the .22.
It may just be that my 225415 mold is a little off ( old Ideal mold) and has undersized lube grooves, but it seems to run out of lube with anything I've tried at about 2200 fps.[smilie=b:
The 225462, on the other hand, groups very nicely over a wider velocity range without any lube problem from the .222 and my Hornet really likes the 225438 at speeds from rimfire to full throttle.[smilie=w:
I had some really encouraging results from some 22596's that my Dad had but have never found a mold to pursue it further.

Good luck and have fun handling the little buggers ( 225107's are a real PITA!)

NVcurmudgeon
04-21-2006, 01:23 PM
Finn, you should post more often, you are missed when not here. I would like to add another vote for the RCBS 35-200. It is very accurate in my 1:16 twist .35 Whelen. If you should be lucky enought to find one of the big Lyman 3589/358009 moulds be sure to have a rifle with a 1:14 or 1:12 twist. That big long 290 gr. boolit is too long to be stabilized by a 1:16 twist.

Bass Ackward
04-21-2006, 01:54 PM
Dear Mr Finn,

Do yourself a favor. Please do not tread into the 35 realm. This has potentially negative reprocussions on how you look upon 30 and 45 caliber cartridges ever again.

But if you can't take the advice, then don't be cheap. Design one that fits your throat. You want about 250 grains for flexibility of hardness at plinking mooses. :grin:

As for the 222, you may want to purchase some bullets until you get the bullet for you. Several guys sell them to include Dan if they haven't shotem all up.

Trailblazer
04-21-2006, 03:27 PM
This was posted in leverguns. In case you didn't see it, these are my dummy rounds for the three 35 caliber designs I have and the bullets. They are, clockwise from top, the RCBS-200-FN, the Saeco 352(the one Beagle mentioned) and the NEI-290-GC.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/394330.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=394330&c=556&z=1)

I haven't finished load development yet but all show the potential for good accuracy. The NEI in particular looks like it will be a real shooter. It happens to cast at a perfect size for my rifle.

drinks
04-21-2006, 05:46 PM
Finn;
I have the RCBS .35 200 RN, actually, 215gr with gas check and the Lee 158gr SWC gc, both shoot ok in my .35 W.
The 158SWC is a fine plinker, short range target bullet and I suspect it would do for small and medium sized animals. A friend used it in a .357 mag. pistol and dropped a 175 lb pig, no problem.
To start with .222, Midsouth Shooters Supply has some 50 some grain Bator gas check molds left, I have one for the .223, casts a nice bullet, should be able to get 2500, + - fps with waterdropped wws.
The mold is about $15.
Don

KTN
04-21-2006, 05:49 PM
Finn45,thanks for your help on Felix lube recipe.It worked out perfectly.Now it´s time for me to help you.
I have Lyman 225438 and RCBS 35-200-FN molds,so if you need some boolits for testing......


Kaj

Finn45
04-22-2006, 09:34 AM
Alright, I was thinking heavy weight with that future .35 rifle. What else for moose plinking, eh :Fire:? And Bass I'm sold already [smilie=1:. Must look for that 358009; 3589 might be long gone these days. Normally I'm lucky with these. My luck is normally good or bad. Instead of normal .35 rifle calibers I was playing with the idea of .35x53R in mosin and maybe modern stock work etc. Should be as good round as any? I just don't know if gunsmiths here around would want to mess with non-existent caliber. Well, long project with very long planning period it will be.

I remembered one other .222 after jpb's comment (hello Sverige, you guys too are all over the place), father -in-laws family has also Vixen from the sixties-seventies, belongs to my brother-in-law.

Excellent suggestions for .222 I'm sure. Sako twist is 14" IIRC. That older 225462 seems to be clearly longer than most others? How it's working generally and what kind of twist it needs? Many molds seem to be readily available, so no problem with that. I didn't know that Lee has one of the Bators in this caliber, thanks for the hint.

Nice to hear that KTN; what was it, the soap thing? Thanks for the offer, I'll let you know when my things are ready to go.

Btw... er... don't have the dies. I get easily with minor investment Lee RGB set, is it alright until I know what I'm really doing?

Bullshop
04-22-2006, 09:49 AM
Finn45
A question for ya. I too have one of the older Vixen 222's. It appears to have micro groove rifling like a Marlin 22 RF. Does your rifle have this type of rifling?
BIC/BS

jpb
04-22-2006, 10:56 AM
Btw... er... don't have the dies. I get easily with minor investment Lee RGB set, is it alright until I know what I'm really doing?

Hi Finn45

Not a bad choice, but for a few Euros more, I would recommend the Lee Deluxe Rifle die set. This includes the Lee neck sizing collet die which is great! No lube needed, and accuracy is as good as I ever got with my expensive Redding bushing neck die. Highly recommended -- all I ever use for my Sako .222

John

Pystis
04-22-2006, 03:28 PM
Finn45
A question for ya. I too have one of the older Vixen 222's. It appears to have micro groove rifling like a Marlin 22 RF. Does your rifle have this type of rifling?
BIC/BS

Bullshop,

I am a Finn, not the Finn45 though, but as far as I know, micro groove Vixens were made for only couple of years as it turned out to unpopular. Many people thought that barrels got shot out, but they were actually fouled. I think most of those barrels are Bofors -marked. Is yours?

Jukka

Ps. Reijo, I have a .35 Fever also. My project is waiting for my summerjob and cash. Are you going to hunt moose with .35 casts? That .35x53R sounds good, I guess some gunsmith might have reamers for it.

Finn45
04-22-2006, 04:25 PM
John, I've been thinking about it... I don't have any collet sizers yet, so I might consider this for my first one. I found a retailer from Italy doing international sales and RGB was only about 10e, that's why it popped up very easily. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dan/Jukka, Alright now, older one with birch stock is genuine Sako with 6 grooves/lands. It has ruined muzzle crown, so it will be under some repairs during this year. It's not marked with model names or numbers. Excellent grouse getter as my f-in-l says. Newer Vixen has microgroove barrel, marked "Bofors steel" in Sweden. Bazillion stories are told about these barrels; Jukka's comment about fouling surely is one of the truths, one other is my father-in-laws favorite that this barrel just don't have ability to kill... One explanation to "no ability to kill" is that this barrel stabilizes certain bullets so well, that it just won't kill a grouse instantly when shot from longish distance using FMJ bullet. The bird fly's away with a hole in the chest. That is not necessarily bad explanation and f-in-l has very strict opinion that only half jackets should be used for grouse hunting with these rifles... But Dan, Sir, You had something in Your mind with this...? Experience with cast boolits...?

Jukka, maybe not reamers, but I was thinking that some smith with ability to do gunsmithing, not just standard copywork, would do it with existent reamers and throating reamer... There's very good smiths here, but they are busy and something that might need more than tool setting could be... well, not so profitable. We'll see. I kill moose with my modified 1895, but if I ever get something like this done, hell I'm going to whack some critter with it, what else if not moose...

threett1
04-23-2006, 07:16 PM
Hornet, what powders do you use with your Hornet and cast. Just picked up a nice Savage 219 in hornet and it is begging to do a little cast work. It shoots the J bullets extremely well and I DO have to tinker, you know.

JeffinNZ
04-23-2006, 11:27 PM
I'm with Beagle on the Lyman 225415.

I have had very good success with this bullet in the .22 Hornet and .223

:drinks:

Finn45
04-24-2006, 02:08 AM
Thanka you all. If I end up buying a mold without testing with samples, I'll be strongly considering 225415. It has the look I like and "buy it - then try it" has worked for me before... Anybody shooting newer designs like 225646? I like old Lymans too, for example mentioned 225462, a bit odd looking boolit listed with pretty high velocity loads in Lyman #3. Might have problems with 14" though.

NVC/Bill, thank you! That was very kind. Although I've not been posting much lately, I visit the site every day many times. This site is true treasure for me. Well, the snow and ice is melting on the yard and I was sorting WW's yesterday, found some zinc ones too and if I have time I'll report some of the findings.

HORNET
04-24-2006, 10:22 AM
Finn45,
The 225462 does very nicely out of a 14"twist at about 2100-2200 fps, needs about 2400 from a 16" twist.
I believe that Felix and Sundog have been playing with the 225646 with very encouraging results but don't know if they have anything definate yet.

threett1,
The best powder I've found for full throttle Hornets is IMR4227, used with either the 225438 or RCBS 22-055-FN with RP 7-1/2 primers in weight-sorted cases. I use either SR4759 with RP7-1/2's or WW680 with Win. SP 's for medium loads, generally with the 225415 and have been playing with Alcan8 with Herter's 6-1/2 primers with the 225107 for a squirrel load and plinker. I understand that current brass is heavier than the ancient stuff I'm using ( 50.9 gr for WW, 44.7 gr for RP) so I'm reluctant to give powder charges as full loads are very brisk and beyond current manual listings.

felix
04-24-2006, 11:19 AM
Yes, indeed, we are going to have a shootout with these 22's sometime shortly. We will be using a host of different boolits using 222s and 22-250s. Dan, are you watching this post? Please send me a pound or less of your Speed Green so we can use that too. Extra NEI naked boolits too. We probably will be shooting all summer specifically for the results we are trying to accumulate. Lube vs boolit vs powder vs primer. ... felix

sundog
04-24-2006, 12:02 PM
Yep, got a bunch of .22 Bators cast yesterday. Also have a wad of Ly 225646 (some already dressed up for the dance), and some RCBS 22-55-SP. The RCBS mould has one cavity original one cavity bored out to to a round nose. Sooo, some will be with FWFL, some with Ly Orange Magic (already have a lubrisizer loaded with a heater), and what ever else can come along. Ought to be interesting. sundog

JeffinNZ
04-24-2006, 06:08 PM
I like old Lymans too, for example mentioned 225462, a bit odd looking boolit listed with pretty high velocity loads in Lyman #3. Might have problems with 14" though.

FINN45. I scored a 2nd hand 225462 a year or 3 back but have yet to do any serious testing in the .223. Prelim tests show very favourable results around 2000fps in a 1-12 barrel (I think? - Rem 700).

Didn't really need a RN .22 mould but it was a double cavity with top punch for USD20.00:-D :-D

:drinks:

J