mid range deer boolit caliber?

[troy_mclure]

currently the only rifle i can cast for is my .45/70.

im thinking of a +/- 300yd deer cartridge that i can cast for.

ill prolly get another bbl for my savage, or encore what ever caliber it is.

what are your guys recomendations.

[captaint]

Troy, are you intending to shoot boolits at these +/- 300 yard deer, or jacketed?? Either way a good old 30-06 would certainly get the job done. It'll take a little more work to get your load to shoot boolits (less than pie plate, 5 shot groups) out to 300. It will be and enjoyable journey though... Have fun & good luck. Mike

[runfiverun]

nothing wrong with the 45-70 to 300 yds for deer

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You can shoot cast out of almost any rifle. If you intend to shoot a cast boolit at a deer 300 yards away, you had better be prepared to do some serious hand loading. Not saying it can not be done, but the money you save by shooting cast you will probably spend on powder and primers in an attempt to make a load you would be confident with. As far as the caliber anything 7mm or bigger should do fine. My advice shoot cast at paper, and spend a little more for J-word bullets on deer at ranges past 200 yards.

[S.R.Custom]

.358 Winchester. ;)

[troy_mclure]

well currently i have a 7mm rem mag, and .204 ruger neither you can cast for.

the .45/70 is pretty heavy recoiling with heavy boolits for long range.

300yd is just the max distance of my range.

any good deer caliber i can cast for, that can shoot past 150 would work.

[jimkim]

nothing wrong with the 45-70 to 300 yds for deer

You read my mind.


well currently i have a 7mm rem mag, and .204 ruger neither you can cast for.

the .45/70 is pretty heavy recoiling with heavy boolits for long range.

300yd is just the max distance of my range.

any good deer caliber i can cast for, that can shoot past 150 would work.

Why can't you cast for 7mm Remington Magnum?

This is from Lyman 49.

160gr Cast #287641 gas check
RL-7 46.0gr, 2613fps.
max load; 45,000 cup

That ought to do it. You could also get a 270 mould and patch the bullet.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=289494

When you roll your own, you have a whole world of options of which to glean.

[Bret4207]

35 Whelen. And if you want to shoot game at 300 with cast, get a range finder.

[Lloyd Smale]

load some 405s at about 1600 and learn the trajectory of your load and your 4570 will work fine.

[wiljen]

well currently i have a 7mm rem mag, and .204 ruger neither you can cast for.

the .45/70 is pretty heavy recoiling with heavy boolits for long range.

300yd is just the max distance of my range.

any good deer caliber i can cast for, that can shoot past 150 would work.


ok, dispute over 7mm (not an optimal case capacity for cast) and 45/70 (recoil) being left alone (I do think either could probably be made serviceable with some effort). The only question this begs is what center-fire rifle round do you think cant shoot past 150 yards? There are no cartridges made that I would willingly stand in front of at between 150 and 200.

As you seem to be looking for a small capacity, low recoil round, I'm gonna pick the 35 Remington. Yes it will have a rainbow for a trajectory, but it will get to 300 yards with low recoil and a nice flat nose big meplat 35 to do the damage when it arrives. Common 158-200gr molds for the 357s will work just fine and are very available. I also like the idea of .357 Maximum, .358, or 35-(30/30). All are good hard hitters with low recoil and good terminal performance with the right boolit (maybe a 358429 even).

Will

[pdawg_shooter]

Cast for your 7mm. Size to .275/.2755, and patch back up with 16# printer paper. Lube, load like a jacketed and go hunting!

[Larry Gibson]

If you don't want to go to PP'd bullets (Psawg shooter will never quit:-) ) Then I concur with the .358W or the .35 Whelen. Get a 14" twist barrel and look a very good fitting 200-250 gr bullets. Push them to 23-2400 fps while maintaining hunting accuracy at 300 yards.

BTW; I've never shot a game animal over 180 yards in over 40 years of hunting with cast bullets. It is my experience that 200 yards is the practical range limit given the velocity limitatons and the remaining velocity at the target. That remaining velocity effects terminal performance of the bullet, particularly expansion if you expect any. The 45-70 will do because a correct 45 cal cast bullet is a good killer without expansion but you must be very familiar with the trajectectory and a range finder is essential i you plan on putting the bullet in the heart/lung area.

A last note; more than 20% of all big game are killed on the short side of 200 yards with more than 80%nof those killed on the short side of 100 yards. In my 40 years of big game hunting I have killed 6 animals past 200 yards. None of those shots would have been attempted with a cast bullet. Ask yourself how many big game animals you have killed over 200 yards and if any was the long range shot really necessary or could you have actually gotten closer. Your own answer to that question should guide you on quest for a cast bullet hunting cartridge.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

If you don't want to go to PP'd bullets (Psawg shooter will never quit:-) ) Then I concur with the .358W or the .35 Whelen. Get a 14" twist barrel and look a ver good fitting 200-250 gr bullets. Push tem to 23-2400 fps while maintaining hunting accuracy ar 300 yards.

BTW; i've never shot a game animal ove 180 yards away in over 40 years of hunting with cast bullets. It is my experience that 200 yards is the practical range limit given the velocity limitatons and the remaining velocity at the target. That remaining velocity effects terminal performance of the bullet, particularly expansion if you expect any. The 45-70 will do bullet is a good killer without expansion because a correct 45 cal cast but you must be very familiar with the trajectectory and a range finder is essential.

A last note; more than 20% of all big game are killed on the short side of 200 yards with more than 80%nof those killed on the short side of 100 yards. In my 40 years of big game hunting I have killed 6 animals past 200 yards. None of those shots would have been attempted with a cast bullet. Ask yourself how many big game animals you have killed over 200 yards and if any was the long range shot really necessary or could you have actually gotten closer.

Larry Gibson

Larry,

Honestly I've not been a big cast hunter. The one rifle I did use was my 45-70 Brownchester carbine. The load, at the time since reduced, was the 405 RCBS over a stiff charge of 4895 for 1850 fps. My farthest shot was a very large doe at 200 yards.

Now here's something I find puzzling. I have receiver sights on it and sighted for 70 yards. One day in the woods I saw a salt block on a hillside across a little valley. Distance appx 200 yards. Well, I thought since I'm sighted for 70 yard and shooting a football bullet, that I can just aim dead center block of salt and observe how much the football drops below the goal post. Nope, didn't happen that way....I hit the damn block!!!!! How, why? Is it the old thing if you sight a centerfire rifle in at 25 yards it's somehow on at 100.....and for my 45-70 sighted for 70 puts it on at 200? AT any rate it gave me a whole new respect for that old cartridge.

I agree with the fellows that chose 358 Win and 35 Whelen.

Joe

[dsmjon]

You say the only rifle you currently cast for is the 45/70. Does this mean you have other rifles, and don't cast for them yet? If that's the case, we should be talking about what molds to buy, rather than rifles.

Certainly not a thing wrong with using the 45/70 to blast deer, even if you do have to aim it like an 80mm mortar round at those long range shots...

If I read your post correctly, what other rifle calibers do you have at your disposal?

[StarMetal]

You say the only rifle you currently cast for is the 45/70. Does this mean you have other rifles, and don't cast for them yet? If that's the case, we should be talking about what molds to buy, rather than rifles.

Certainly not a thing wrong with using the 45/70 to blast deer, even if you do have to aim it like an 80mm mortar round at those long range shots...

If I read your post correctly, what other rifle calibers do you have at your disposal?

No no, I cast for all my rifles, but only hunt with the 45-70 using casts. The others I use jacketed (rarely now) to hunt with.

Joe

[durwood]

I'd go with a .308. Thats what most military and swat snipers use. Its trajectory is almost identical to the 30-06 but a little less recoil. I myself have taken deer out past 240 yds and the deer drop where they stood. Just watch the wind and the sticks.

[dsmjon]

Nevermind, I slept through post #6. Shouldn't be a problem casting for the 7mag. IMHO, I'd go trade one of them on a Marlin 336 in 30/30 though... BUT you've got to consider I've just been bitten by the leverbug.

[dsmjon]

Sorry Joe, my initial post was directed to the OP.. I need another cup of cawfeee....

[Larry Gibson]

Starmetal (Joe)

"The load, at the time since reduced, was the 405 RCBS over a stiff charge of 4895 for 1850 fps"

The "rainbow" trajectory reputation of the 45-70 was based on that bullet at about 800 to 600 fps slower. That load you were shooting will shoot flatter than you realize, as you found out. As to your 75 yard zero and 200 yard hit if you were zeroed at 75 yards and the shot you made was a high one in your cone of fire then with a center hold on a block of salt and considering the cone of fire at 200 yards then hitting the salt block is quite reasonable. However, stretching that to 300 yards does pose some problems and knowing the exact range, the trajectory and one's cone of fire at that range becomes critical.

Actually a 300 gr RCBS GC'd cast bullet out of my Siamese Mauser at 2100 fps shoots pretty darn flat out to 20 or so yards. The 2.5X Leupold has a Havy duplex so I don't shoot it much past 100 yards as I built it as a "pole patch" elk rifle. That's about the only place I'd take a "Texas Heart shot" as most often it is the only shot you've got in a pole patch. The Lee C457-500-RF at 2050 fps will go from one end of an elk and out the other. But that's all short range shooting and not the 300 yards that is the topic of this thread.

Larry Gibson

[carpetman]

Starmetal--Joe --You mention the ole sighted in at 25 is somehow on at 100 thing. I've heard you express many times you don't like the .270 because you didn't like Jack O'Connor. In 1947 Jack O wrote an article on sighting in that was so good that Weaver scopes made reprints and included the article in all their scopes when they were made in El Paso. Get a copy of that and it's probably the best explanation you will find. Mr O'Connor did say he may not have been the first to sight in that way but he was pretty sure he was the first to write about it. Basically line of sight is straight and a bullet makes an arc. The line of sight cuts through the arc twice since the bullet starts out below line of sight. If that first is set to 25 yards---it will be on again and that range is determined by bullet shape,speed weight etc. Typically a 30-06 with 150 grain jacketed is on at 25yds 1 1/4" high at 100 and back on at 225 and drops there-after--making it hold dead on from muzzle to about 275 and you get the deer. Sight "most" centerfires dead on at 25 yards and you are good to go. Those with rainbow trajectories will be different and 40 yards might be the initial sight in range. .22 rimfire is about 16 yards.

[runfiverun]

a 35 is a good reasonable choice of speed and diameter.
for the longer shots i'd take the weight/diameter advantage of the 45/70 still.
a 38/55 375 win might just be a good compromise if i get to go hunting this year i'll find out as that is the route i am going.

[StarMetal]

Larry,

Yeah that's what I was thinking too.....and it did shoot a lot flatter then many would think.

Ray,

I don't dislike the 270 as it's great caliber. I just got tired of Jack promoting it like it was the only caliber on earth. I don't think Jack was knowledgeable either. Just sick of hearing about the 270 which we don't anymore or at least not as much.

Joe

[troy_mclure]

ive done a bunch of reading on casting for the 7mm mag. even the Lyman cast boolit hand book says its unreliable with out paper patching.

i am just barely into casting, and dont need to try to learn another skill like paper patching right now.

what do you guys think about the .30-40 krag?

[runfiverun]

it's as good as the 308,303,argie 7.5x55 in cast.
the 7-mag needs a filler just like using 308 loads in the 0-6 both with a filler [dacron,lint ,kapok]
the krag has distinct advantages like the 30-30 does over the shorter necked cases.
for the krag i use the rcbs 165 silh and for the 7mm the rcbs 145 silh both are good short neck boolits. the rcbs works nicely in the bolt actions and feeds through the 1895 also.

[troy_mclure]

OK i found a .30-06 barrel for my savage 111 for $50 shipped.

ill still keep an eye out for some of the other calibers listed.


thanks for all the advise!

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

375 H&H of course...

Rich

[Bret4207]

I'd go with a .308. Thats what most military and swat snipers use. Its trajectory is almost identical to the 30-06 but a little less recoil. I myself have taken deer out past 240 yds and the deer drop where they stood. Just watch the wind and the sticks.

That would be fine if he was shooting jacketed. What "military and swat snipers" use isn't cast. While both the 308 and 30-06 do fine with cast, shooting at 300 yards is a whole 'nuther ball game with cast.

BTW- Welcome to the board![smilie=s:

[softpoint]

.358 Winchester. Powder efficient, accurate , big enough bore, works well with cast or jacketed, ..........can you tell I like the .358?.............:D[smilie=2:

[1Shirt]

Interesting opinions on all of these responses. Seems to me that regardless of the ctg, the load, or the blt, shooting 300 yds with cast ought to require a whoop of practice out to that range. Also seems to me that there is a strong need for bal tables for not only trajectory, but also for energy tables at that range. The Lyman Cast Manual lists both for a number of blts and would suggest that anyone wanting to do 300 yd shooting at game spend time pouring over the pages of same. As for me, IF, and that is a big IF I intended to try 300 yds with cast it would have to be with something big enough weight wise to have at least 1000 or better FPE at that range. Seems like that number is sort of recognized as some sort of magic number of kill energy required for most states for deer at 100 (or something like that). Again, IF I were going to go for 300 with cast, it would have to be with something of large enough cal to have that much energy at 300, and would have to be either a HP or a soft nosed hard cast base blt. Think I would probably be looking at (as some suggested 358Win, 35 Whelan, 375 H&H, or 45-70. I would also consider that as Paco Kelly has recommended one round of practice down range for every yard (or maybe it was or is two yards) intended to shoot. My personal preference would probably be the 375 H&H, and would probably run something like the Ranch Dog out of it pushing in the 2000+ at the end of the tube. That said, with old eyes, and body, unless I was shooting from a fixed position with a rock steady rest, had much much practice at the known range (with range finder varification), would limit myself to probably a max of 150 yds with cast. Just my opinion!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Ricochet]

Now that you mention it, the .375 H&H doesn't sound like a bad idea with cast boolits.

[largom]

IMO, shooting deer at 300+ yds. is just shooting not hunting. For me the thrill of the hunt is the stalking. I can shoot to 350 yds. at my home range and it can be fun to shoot targets at that range, but targets are not living animals.
I see no reason that a hunter cannot get closer than 300 yds. to their quarry. One of my most memorable hunts was for Antelope in Wyo. After a 4 hr. stalk I shot my buck at less than 100 yds. The next day I took a doe after a 2 hr. stalk. Antelope like flat ground.
I have never wounded and lost a big game animal.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Larry

[RBak]

Going back a bit to Carpetman Ray's comment on 25 yd sight in....

Anytime I start out a new rifle, either cast or jword, I start at 25 yds.
I've been doing this for more than five decades, and I can assure you the practice does have at least some merit.

Not only does it save you a ton of money, effort, and frustrations by getting you "exactly" where you want on paper, but the principals of bullet drop / impact works quite well for many, perhaps even most, real life hunting applications.

O' Conner may have given many of us a bad case of "burn-out" on the merits of the .270, but I still miss the excitement he could create with his writings when I was young, gullible, and believed about everything that was in print.
Although I was never able to get any of my own .270's to perform quite like he did, that never stopped me from trying.
Some wonderful memories there. Memories of both the .270 and the then wildcat 7mm-06, which as we all know eventually became known as the 7mm Express / .280, and this round brought other authors out of the woodwork and suddenly this round suddenly became their favorite "horse to beat to death"..ahhh, the good old days, indeed!

I agree with the thought that says 300 yds has more to do with shooting than hunting, but I also realize that it can be done, and done quite well.
Still yet, those who do it spend a a great deal of time practicing at those ranges and were / are very, very capable riflemen, before they even started this game....many of them also recognize that 2.5" high (or whatever) at 25 will put them in the boiler room at 300.

As far as the best cast boolit round for 300 yd plinking, or hunting, my vote would go first with the Whelen, then with the .358 Win, both great rounds, with good long range cast boolits available.

Just thinking out loud, I suspect.

Russ...

[Hardcast416taylor]

Starmetal, I`ll bet that farmer/rancher would be real proud of your shooting seeing as how you destroyed the mineral block he had bought and put out for his livestock. Having been a farmer, and having also put out these blocks for my livestock to use, I would get a tad riled up over fall hunters either destroying my blocks or cutting thru my fences to let their dogs thru.Robert

[lurch]

Although I was never able to get any of my own .270's to perform quite like he did, ...

Not terribly germane to the topic at hand, but i suspect that here lies the root of a lot of folks issues with the late Mr. O'connor

Hijack over...

[waksupi]

Having shot the .358 Win for some years, I have determined that with my load shooting at around 2100 fps, maximum range is around 225 yards, considering trajectory and terminal performance. If I can't get closer than that, I'm not hunting, I'm shooting.

[looseprojectile]

Has pretty well got it.
I have been shooting a 375 H&H in a #1 Ruger with a 270 grain flat base flat nose boolit. It shoots really small groups at one hundred yards. Starting at 1300 fps. the drop at 300 yards is something like thirty inches. The energy at one hundred is near 900 fp.At 300 it is near 600 fp. This is not a long range load.
It is barely a deer load at one hundred.
You gotta have a lot more velocity to play at long range or sights that instantly adjust to compensate or both.
I have shot way more than my share of deer and I think none have been more than a hundred and fifty yards. Most of those were with bullets at high velocity.
When hunting you don't get unlimited sighters as you do in target shooting.
At some point I will have to get a gas checked boolit for this gun to get the velocity up near two thousand fps to make it into a one hundred and fifty yard elk gun.
For three hundred yard hunting I would use a 270 grain bullet at 2700 fps. Then it would be too much gun for elk at a hundred yards. Way too much. I once shot a small blacktail deer with a 348 winchester. Ruined the whole front half. I also shot a deer with a trapdoor Springfield carbine at fifty feet. My partner claimed I murdered it. Way too much gun again.
So many guns so little time.

Life is good

[StarMetal]

Starmetal, I`ll bet that farmer/rancher would be real proud of your shooting seeing as how you destroyed the mineral block he had bought and put out for his livestock. Having been a farmer, and having also put out these blocks for my livestock to use, I would get a tad riled up over fall hunters either destroying my blocks or cutting thru my fences to let their dogs thru.Robert

Actually it was the neighbor who put the block up to lure the deer so he could get a buck, which is illegal. I don't mess around on farmers land, don't climb their fences, don't mess with their salt blocks, don't leave their gates open, and ask permission to hunt. So you're way off on this one.

Regards
Joe

[StarMetal]

Going back a bit to Carpetman Ray's comment on 25 yd sight in....

Anytime I start out a new rifle, either cast or jword, I start at 25 yds.
I've been doing this for more than five decades, and I can assure you the practice does have at least some merit.

Not only does it save you a ton of money, effort, and frustrations by getting you "exactly" where you want on paper, but the principals of bullet drop / impact works quite well for many, perhaps even most, real life hunting applications.

O' Conner may have given many of us a bad case of "burn-out" on the merits of the .270, but I still miss the excitement he could create with his writings when I was young, gullible, and believed about everything that was in print.
Although I was never able to get any of my own .270's to perform quite like he did, that never stopped me from trying.
Some wonderful memories there. Memories of both the .270 and the then wildcat 7mm-06, which as we all know eventually became known as the 7mm Express / .280, and this round brought other authors out of the woodwork and suddenly this round suddenly became their favorite "horse to beat to death"..ahhh, the good old days, indeed!

I agree with the thought that says 300 yds has more to do with shooting than hunting, but I also realize that it can be done, and done quite well.
Still yet, those who do it spend a a great deal of time practicing at those ranges and were / are very, very capable riflemen, before they even started this game....many of them also recognize that 2.5" high (or whatever) at 25 will put them in the boiler room at 300.

As far as the best cast boolit round for 300 yd plinking, or hunting, my vote would go first with the Whelen, then with the .358 Win, both great rounds, with good long range cast boolits available.

Just thinking out loud, I suspect.

Russ...

I remember the 7mm Express/280 hitting the market and sure don't recall it getting beat to death. In fact Remington brought it out in the wrong rifle to really ring out it's full potential and that rifle wasn't a bolt action. In all reality the 280 is much more cartridge then the 270 Win and literally blow it's doors off in any avenue of shooting in my opinion. In fact I would prefer it over a 7mm Rem Mag.

Joe

[Hardcast416taylor]

Actually it was the neighbor who put the block up to lure the deer so he could get a buck, which is illegal. I don't mess around on farmers land, don't climb their fences, don't mess with their salt blocks, don't leave their gates open, and ask permission to hunt. So you're way off on this one.

Regards
Joe

Starmetal. Maybe you should have qualified it in the first entry and I wouldn`t have gotten my back hairs up?:-?Robert

[StarMetal]

Starmetal. Maybe you should have qualified it in the first entry and I wouldn`t have gotten my back hairs up?:-?Robert

You're probably right Robert. I was brought up better then that to do things I call vandalism.

Regards
Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Not terribly germane to the topic at hand, but i suspect that here lies the root of a lot of folks issues with the late Mr. O'connor

Hijack over...

Most folks don't realize there "issues" should have been with Remington, Wincehsester or whoever else made their rifle. O'Conner's rifles were most often custom one's and they had 24-26" barrels. Most facory barrels for a long time were only 22" for the 270. There in is the problem but most folks don't understand that barrel length does make a difference and if you want a shorter barrel the sacrifice is in velocity. Most who promote the shorter barrels use such as " the deer won't notice the 150-200 fps difference" or "the 150-200 fps difference isn't really that much". This applies to other cartridges as well. In this instance thecommon use of chronographs today show many that their 22" barreled .270 does not do what O'Conner says his rifles did. Well duh! If they could understand the difference 4" of longer barrel makes then they'd quit complaining. However it s always the case for humans to blame something/someone else than to except the facts of or accept the blame for their own mistakes/choices. Take a 26" barreled M70 in .270, 130 gr Speer SPs, Win Super Speed cases and old original surplus 4831 and you can easily duplicate O'conner's .270 loads because that is what he most often used. However if they expect to do that with a 22" barrel then they shouldn't blame O'Conner for their inability to do so.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

The .375 H&H is indeed a very good cast bullet cartridge and an excellent one for hunting. I consider mine quite capable of taking deer, B bear and elk with cast bullets. My hunting cast bullet is the 377449 cast soft over 46 gr 4895 with a dacron filler. Velocity is 2150 fps or so out of my M70 and accuracy is excellent. However, I woul still consider it to be a 250 yard hunting load simply because the large FP nose gives the bullet a very poor BC an it sheds velocity quite quickly. That means 2 things; the trajectory gets to the point that range distance to the animal must be known and that minimal expansion will be had at the longer range. However with the large meplat and caliber of the .375 non expansion of that heavy 270 gr bullet would still ensure sufficient killing power and penetration on those animals.

Larry Gibson

[carpetman]

Starmetal Joe---In what way are you saying the .280 blows the door off a .270? I have never owned a .270 so I'm not trying to defend it--I just don't see the .280 offering that much more---I probably missed something. It makes perfect sense that the .280 didnt receive big reviews--plenty of other stuff to write about in those days. Jack O'Connor said there were a few cartridges around that everybody else was writing about. He wrote about the .270 as a wildcat----because nobody else was writing about it---fresh unplowed ground. It got him a following,made him rich and famous of course he loved it. Truth be known he probably liked the 30-06 better???? I still kick my tail for not asking him that. I talked to him on the phone for about an hour and because I was an Air Force recruiter he talked about military and we didn't discuss guns that much.

[RBak]

Larry, of course, you're right on the money.

However, like I said, it never stopped me from trying, and it never stopped me from enjoying the man's writings for many years.

I believe now, as I believed back in the day, that the .270 would have never gained the popularity it has over the years, without O' Conner's praise.
I also believe that I was not the only fool in town trying to duplicate his published loads...and, even on occasion, coming darn close....chronographs were not that easy to come by back in the 1960's.

I also believe that after 25 / 30 or so years of trying, many folks myself included, got "burnt-out" on reading just how easily this could be accomplished, and what could be expected once fired...in fact, the term "O' Conner load" was coined, and sometimes used to describe a particular load, even though the person saying this had absolutely no clue as to what the actual performance of their loaded round was.

As interesting as this may be to some folks, perhaps all this needs a thread of its own, as it has little to do with a mid range cartridge.
In fact, I think someone has already mentioned the word "Hi-jacked", and I apologize for my part in this.

Russ...

[runfiverun]

i think the best threads on this board are the ones that wander..
the midrange q has been answered anyways.
the 7x57 was mentioned frequently by jack also as that is what his wife used.
a regular 7 load and a short bbld 270 are balistic twins except the mauser uses a 10 gr heavier bullet.
ironic huh? guys buying the 270 for performance then shooting a necked down 7x57.
the 150 fps thing made the 300 mag too...

[Lead Fred]

Stick with the 45-70 and 300ish weight boolits

[troy_mclure]

im glad it has "wandered" ive learned a lot.

[MT Gianni]

Starmetal Joe---In what way are you saying the .280 blows the door off a .270? I have never owned a .270 so I'm not trying to defend it--I just don't see the .280 offering that much more---I probably missed something. .

Bullet choice and weight would be the first to come to mind, Ray. In Jacketed the 7mm's and 30's rule in weight choice.
2nd would be a similar trajectory though both are splitting hairs with the '06. Recoil will belighter with a 130 or 139 gr bullet than a 150 and a 150 or 160 than a 180 though I believe rifle fit is more important in recoil than bullet weight.

[StarMetal]

Well Mt beat me too it and did a good job by the way. Ray, basically both of those are 7mm's in a sense...they are so close. The 280 out of a bolt rifle kicks on the heels of the 7mm Rem Mag and in some instances (depending on the 7 Rem Mag rifle and barrel length) beats it. I owned the 7 Mag and although a good rifle, I wasn't overly impressed with it. The 270 is a great round, no doubt about that. It will do all you have to do in hunting, but the 280 will do it slightly better, especially as Mt stated, with the heavier bullets. To me that makes some difference in pursuing elk and moose. I heavy bullet in 7mm has a better BC and higher sectional density and boils down to more retained energy for a longer distance. I think the 280 is very close to an all around lower 48 hunting rifle. The only thing I can think of negative is it requires a longer action.

Ray don't try to twist my words around, I like the 270 . When my now gone beloved brother asked me what he should buy for a new deer rifle, and he told me he was leaning towards a 308, I said get a 270. I bought him a Win 70 Featherweight in 270. I never seen a man love a rifle so much. He told me to bury the rifle with him. I miss him so much.

Joe

Joe

[StarMetal]

I want to mention that the 280 isn't exactly a midrange caliber. I consider it that and long range. We know all calibers will suffice at short distances.

Joe

[carpetman]

Starmetal---Don't try to twist your words around???? I was quoting you---how is that a twist???? Go read your post #38 and blows the doors off was your exact quote which is what I stated. I did not and still do not see how the .280 is that much ahead of a .270. You have told me several times of your dislike for Jack O'Connor and that you would never own one because he liked them. A twist? How so? Mt Gianni I know that bullet choice is a big plus for the 30-06 for most people. It's really a non factor for me. I consider the 150 grain as the best choice and that's all I use (anymore). It would be a nightmare for me to be switching weights and having o resight and remember which weight I was sighted in for at that time. If I wanted a different performer, I'd use another rifle. I could use lightweight sabbotted bullets for example, but if I want that I use my .22 centerfire.

[runfiverun]

instead of switching rifles i do switch loads.
100 gr bullets for varmints at 3,000 fps,139's at 2800 for everything else deer and up to elk.
the 100's shoot higher at 100 yds but by 300 things even out.
by using a bdc scope it gives me right handy sight settings.
the only time i change a scope setting is for cast boolit loads..
yeah i tweaked my loads some to do it, but i didn't give up any accuracy.
and i get to use the same rifle all the time.

[Bret4207]

Actually it was the neighbor who put the block up to lure the deer so he could get a buck, which is illegal. I don't mess around on farmers land, don't climb their fences, don't mess with their salt blocks, don't leave their gates open, and ask permission to hunt. So you're way off on this one.

Regards
Joe

You still shot onto someone elses land, at their property, legal or not. 2 wrongs and all that....

You didn't destroy the bock anyway, you just spread it out over a bigger area. The right way to do it would have been a call to your game wardens.

[carpetman]

runfiverun--Lamar in the past I did load some 110 grainers for my 30-06 . The purpose was to eliminate recoil/blast. I had read where Jack O'Connor of all people had said he had seen a few 30-06's that printed different bullet weights at same place. Worked out my load did that. But so what? The reduction in blast and recoil was minimal. Going to cast bullets did give the blast/recoil reduction---but sight readjustment needed. Going to .22 centerfires--now your talking blast/recoil reduction. I have mentioned that in past I did a lot of jackrabbit shooting. This was done at night (legal here) and most shots were made while in the pickup so blast was a big factor. Those 100's @ 3000 fps would not be suitable.

[runfiverun]

ray i totally understand the use a rifle for a purpose and have no room to talk about only having one rifle.
i went through the trouble mainly because i actually at one time [long time] did only have one rifle.
now i use that [way more upgraded] same rifle when hunting large game but frequently see coyotes etc while hunting and the second load with no change does come in right handy.
i have a third load for that rifle now that is a high velocity heavier bullet load for longer range big game that does shoot to the same impact as the lighter bullet at closer range but shoots a bit flatter at distance [over 400 yds]

[carpetman]

Lamar, I too went through a long period of time with only one rifle. There was a time I worked a full time job as well as a part time job and had a retirement check ---all this after my kids were grown and I bought a few guns. I did buy a 6mm Rem that I did load up two types bullets. Same weight one was full metal jacket and the other an expanding bullet. The idea was one for deer and the other for turkey. Before I ever used the gun two things happened. A friend wanted the gun and I found the .243 which I still have. Sold the friend the gun with the understanding if he ever wanted his money back, if gun in same general condition I would buy it. I sold it to him for what I had in it and felt like I had bought it at a bargain.