Bottom pour blues....

[Bucks Owin]

About 20 yrs ago, I decided I could "fix" my Production Pot's tendency to leak at the spout. I won't bother you with the details of the "fix", suffice to say the darm thing ended up with a threaded plug where the spout used to be! :roll: I've used an RCBS ladle with it since that forgettable day....

Well, this winter I got a "wild hair" and ordered a new pot and valve rod from Lee. (A whopping $15 including shipping BTW) Today I managed to finally R&R the pot after much fussing and cursing and tweaking of parts. Sucess at last!

Guess what? I can't cast decent boolits with it! Gonna have to learn how to operate a bottom pour outfit all over again I guess....

Grrrrrrr :-?

Dennis

(At least this pot doesn't seem to leak..........much) :-)

[imashooter2]

I get much lower rejection rates with a ladle. Some folks are just meant to pour that way.

[Dale53]

imashooter2;
You may be right. However, I am a confirmed bottom pour guy. I admit, that some seem to do better with ladles. I suspect that they just never took the time to learn to "do it right":mrgreen:

But, the truth is, it doesn't matter which you do - the important thing is that you do cast bullets:drinks:

Dale53

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

My original plans a year or two ago before I was distracted were to do the ladle thing. But after my experiences smelting and seeing rbstern's bottom pour setup, I'm afraid I've converted to bottom pour for casting bullets.

Hang in there Dennis, it's my belief you'll adapt and overcome. (Grin)

Dave

[rusty marlin]

I'm with imashooter, I picked up a used bottom pour last year. Cleaned out, got it adjusted right and then fought with it for two days. Now I'm back to a ladle and much less frustrated. ;) I may try it again with some new alloy, maybe some 20:1 for my .45-70 405HB, but then maybe not.

[HORNET]

I find that bottom pour works well with some molds but not with others. It seems to depend on the mold material, venting, length/diameter ratio of the mold, alloy, and perhaps phase of the moon. I have yet to find a mold that I can't get to work with a ladle though. 266469 hp's with a bottom pour??:holysheep I'll pass.:bigsmyl2:

[montana_charlie]

I am a confirmed bottom pour guy....
I suspect that they just never took the time to learn to "do it right"
Well, I sure wish it was possible for you to tell me what it is I need to change.

In my muzzleloading days, I used Lyman's iron pot and ladle on a two burner hot plate, and made a mountain of .440 RB and .45 Maxi Balls. The RB mould was iron and the other was aluminum.
I had no thermometer, never heard of tin, and only knew my lead could be 'marked' with a thumbnail (a truly useless 'test'). My bullets were 'chrome shiny', and the tiniest imperfection got remelted.

Then one day I spied a used Lyman bottom pour in an appliance repair shop. Got it for the repair cost, since the owner had never come back for it. I fired it up, ran all of my lead through it, and poured it all into ingots. Worked pretty slick!

Then I went to Vietnam...then Germany...then...

Never got back to muzzloaders, so the Lyman bottom pour has just sat on the shelf (for 25 years).

Now, I'm trying to get good 500+ grain bullets, and I can only succeed when using that damn Lyman ladle.
Even alternating between the two methods...which means alloy and mould temperatures remain identical...the bottom pour still leaves a 'ding' or two somewhere on the bullet's surface.

I am in line to get one of the PGT loaner moulds (probably will arrive today) to try out. I'll see if an iron mould...or Victory Mold's unique venting method...works better on the 'down low'.
CM

[Beau Cassidy]

I have gone to ladel casting for all rifle- especially .348 and larger. I can remember once way back when someone who I really trusted told me the best way to get a consistent big bullet was with a ladel. "Howash", I thought. Well let me tell you, after finally buying some rifles that shoot the bigger slugs, ladel casting them is the way to go! I also use it with the .50 cal. S&W mold. It just gives a better looking, more consistent bullet. Sure, it's slower, but who cares. Now for the pistola bullets, they are bottom poured except for the HP ones.

Beau

[44man]

In my opinion, if you want cans and cans full of boolits, use the bottom pour. If you want a few cans of really good boolits that shoot tight groups, use a ladle. Over 50 years of trying the bottom pour on each new mould with so-so luck, the ladle always comes through. The only reason to need a million boolits fast is to shoot an auto like mad at 7 yd's.
I would rather have 100 perfect boolits then 10,000 scrubs.
All I read here is speed-speed-speed. A leisure casting session with every boolit a perfect one is much more satisfying. I do not envy those that make boolits as fast as the speed of light. I can hit my targets!

[Bucks Owin]

In my opinion, if you want cans and cans full of boolits, use the bottom pour. If you want a few cans of really good boolits that shoot tight groups, use a ladle. Over 50 years of trying the bottom pour on each new mould with so-so luck, the ladle always comes through. The only reason to need a million boolits fast is to shoot an auto like mad at 7 yd's.
I would rather have 100 perfect boolits then 10,000 scrubs.
All I read here is speed-speed-speed. A leisure casting session with every boolit a perfect one is much more satisfying. I do not envy those that make boolits as fast as the speed of light. I can hit my targets!


:castmine:

Well, if I can't get some better results than I did today, I may go right back to a ladle too. I messed with the "new" downpour today for a few hours and recycled 50% of what I cast. After juggling techniques and temps I got some "decent" boolits towards the end of the session. I'm gonna shoot some of them before I decide whether to keep fooling with technique or go back to the trusty dipper....

Like you, speed doesn't matter much with me, good bullets do!

Dennis :Fire:

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=If you want a few cans of really good boolits that shoot tight groups, use a ladle."

"I would rather have 100 perfect boolits then 10,000 scrubs."

"All I read here is speed-speed-speed. A leisure casting session with every boolit a perfect one is much more satisfying. I do not envy those that make boolits as fast as the speed of light. I can hit my targets!"

Seems to me that these statements take in an awful lot of territory, when the writer knows nothing of the quality of OTHERS' bullets.

Speed is NOT the target when I sit down to cast. The way I do it is MY way, which has evolved over the forty years since I started casting. The fact that they get produced rapidly doesn't affect the quality. The fact that SOME people can't get good bullets from bottom pouring is irrelevant to those of us who CAN get good results. Don't paint us with your personal brush.

That's a huge assumption, quoting "100 good bullets instead of 10,000 scrubs". I'll turn that around, and say that I much prefer casting 1,000 good bullets in an hour or two, to 100 good bullets that took a full afternoon or evening, or all day, to create.

I cast about a thousand 311467s a day or two back, this being one of the multi-banded Loverins which most casters regard as among the more difficult-to-cast designs. After shutting down, I grabbed a handful, about 20-25 bullets, and weighed them WITHOUT EVEN A VISUAL INSPECTION. Now, I dunno what "good" means to many other people, but this batch, cast from four different cavities, ALL weighed within an extreme spread of 1/2 grain. Not 1/2 grain variation from average, mind you, it was 1/2 grain from lightest to heaviest. That, to me, is "good". Following up by measuring diameters, there was NO notable variation from the front-band measurements I performed...all came in at .3115" My caliper only reads to the half-thou, so it's possible there's a wee variance it couldn't pick up. If so, it's not enough to worry me.

I'd also counsel some caution about implying how us unwashed bottom-pouring members can't "hit our targets", like YOU can, all on account of your leisurely ladle-casting routine. Some of us just might surprise you, some day.

If your system works for you, that's fine. However, it's unseemly to look down your patrician nose at those of us who elect to use some efficiency in the casting process, especially without your ever seeing the results of our methods.

[StarMetal]

I'll have to agree with Bruce, he summed it up perfect. How in the hell did the notion get started that ladle cast better bullets then a bottom pour? You know what it is...it's just a notion or a fad.....like those who shoot black powder will do it only with a flinter. They'll say all kind of bad stuff about a percussion BP gun. I cast bullets with a ladle and a cast iron pot for years before I could afford a RCBS furnace and boy I'll tell you, I'd quit shooting if I had to go back to a ladle now. I'm not even going to talk about target accuracy between the two.

Joe

[waksupi]

I'll have to agree with Bruce, he summed it up perfect. How in the hell did the notion get started that ladle cast better bullets then a bottom pour? You know what it is...it's just a notion or a fad.....like those who shoot black powder will do it only with a flinter. They'll say all kind of bad stuff about a percussion BP gun. I cast bullets with a ladle and a cast iron pot for years before I could afford a RCBS furnace and boy I'll tell you, I'd quit shooting if I had to go back to a ladle now. I'm not even going to talk about target accuracy between the two.

Joe

Joe, you missed a distinction on this post. I shoot both percussion, and flint. But, when you throw in pointy bullets, and inlines, muzzleloaders and modern so-called muzzleloaders, part company. That's why I don't make posts on subjects dealing with the inlines. They have no relationship to traditional muzzleloaders, and any information I may be able to give, will not apply to those type of firearms. Want to know anything about traditional ML's? I, or KCSO, or a couple others here, can give someone the ins-and-outs. But never the twain shall meet, as they are distinctly two separate types of firearms.

[cherok9878]

I am not experienced enough to give advise one way or the other, on the pour method. I think a person should use what he or she has at hand and is compfortable with. Personally, at this time in my casting career, I get better results with a bottom pour pot. I have no one to call on, to show me how to pour a perfict boolit with a bottom pour or a ladle. So I use what I have.:roll: The level of experience with some of you guys is "light years" ahead of us who have just discovered this wondreful past time. I look forward to each and every post on this forum, each day. Thank you for sharing your learned experience.

[StarMetal]

Well you know what I meant Waksupi....there is no real difference between ladle and bottom pour...except bottom pour is more convenient and faster.

Joe

[Bass Ackward]

Well you know what I meant Waksupi....there is no real difference between ladle and bottom pour...except bottom pour is more convenient and faster.

Joe


Joe,

I don't know. I believe that there are inherent differences from the two methods. Some affect the operator. And some the mold. And some the mix. Some people / molds / mixes can handle speed (heat) and others can't.

The advantage from a laddle is a clearly slower technique, at lower temps both for mold and mix because of a faster, pressure fill from a larger, more consistent sprue weight. If this is needed by the operator, the mold, or the mix, then you get better bullets from a laddle.

A bottom pour is fast, but it is ever changing. You have to be able to read and react to all the factors from mold temperature to flow rates to build a "changing rythm" which may include some type of cooling. And your mix must tollerate it. Understanding "your" abilities / limitations / patience are key to successful selection of method or technique. And in the end, you may need to lower standards for your bullet quality.

Some people excell at either method. And some just think that they do. Then there are those that just don't know or understand the difference because they only know one method. I believe that every caster should learn on a dipper. I prefer bottom pour today and my molds are made accordingly, but the dipper lays on my splash tray under my bottom pour when needed.

[imashooter2]

Well you know what I meant Waksupi....there is no real difference between ladle and bottom pour...except bottom pour is more convenient and faster.

Joe

And that *I* get much lower rejection rates with a ladle. Some folks are just meant to pour that way.

[223tenx]

I used to ladle pour until I went to work for a gunstore and had to cast 5000 boolits at a time for resale. I started using a Lee bottom pour and fought it for a couple of week. Then, all of a sudden, it just lined out (use a lot of heat). I also have a H&R handi rifle with 3 barrels. All of them shoot better than I can hold the gun. It seems about 1 out of about 25 Handi owners (my statistics) can't get the guns to shoot no matter what they try. I guess the statement YMMV applies. The Handis are a different breed with a relative slow lock time. You have to follow through or you spray boolits all over. It takes time to learn to bottom pour. Now, I use two pots, one is heating up to casting temp while I empty the other. You have to do the learning curve thing with anything. Sometimes, I think, my temperment is more suited to one thing than another. I believe that's why YMMV.

[44man]

Bruce and Joe, I have not painted everyone that way. If you have read all my previous posts on the subject, you would remember that I said some of you do real good at it. But I can't and my friend can't. I also believe that if someone else has trouble that his best bet is the ladle.
Too much depends on the pot, alloy and mould. My friend has 2 large bottom pour pots and even turned all the way up (we even removed the thermostat on one so it runs wide open) the lead will freeze in the spout or on top of the mould before filling a boolit. We can't keep the mould hot, even getting perfect boolits with the ladle takes a lot of work. His pots are fairly new Lyman's. My old Lyman (1961) will not get hot enough after adjusting the thermostat. My Lee pots get close to working OK, but some moulds will not work.
If you are fortunate enough to have a pot that works and you make perfect boolits, then YOU are painting the rest of us with that brush.
There is just too much variation even between the pots that come off the line side by side. Just as one rifle shoots tacks but the one next to it sprays bullets.
Then there are the special, and expensive pots that are MADE for bottom pouring. If not for them, no one could afford to buy cast boolits. Most of us can't afford to buy these pots!
You just can't make a blanket statement that everyone can make perfect bottom pour boolits with whatever equipment he has. You can't tell them to scrap their pot and buy such and such one either, when most are on a budget.
My best guess! Maybe one in every 200 pots will work for bottom pour. If you have that one, never part with it!
It is so bad, I know a guy that had his heating element burn out so he sent it in for a replacement. It will not bottom pour anymore. It seems the companies made the elements to run cooler to keep them from burning out. A thermometer shows the pot will not get hotter then 700 degrees. Are you going to tell him he is nuts and should be able to learn to bottom pour? ( I know he has bottom poured for at least 40 years, can no longer do it and is as good at it as the rest of you.)
You experts have to back off and realize most of us are not as fortunate or as rich as you, stop bragging that you can do it and recommend the ladle to those that have poor equipment.
Yeah, I have a load that will shoot 1/4" out of any 30-06! Anyone want to buy the Brooklyn bridge?

[sundog]

I have been casting for 35 years. I've never used a bottom pour. I had one one time as part of a bunch of stuff what came in a trade and it went on to Tony, who I think is using it. That said, I ladle pour most of my steekin pissola boolits, simply because it's faster, even though I have to wait for sprues to cool - sometimes I run 2 moulds. BUT, rifle boolits are an entirely different matter. I dipper pour, and I get EXCELLENT results. I have more boolits right now than I can shoot over the summer, and I'll start up again next fall and make more. They're only one step away from match grade, and that's nothing more than running them across a scale, which doesn't take all that long. Or, I can simply use them as they come and accept an ocassional flyer. Either way, I have plenty, enjoy my time at the casting bench, loading bench, and shooting bench. (Beginning to see a pattern here?) My technique is so good that I doubt that I will ever try a bottom pour. In addition, I MUCH prefer the egg style Lyman dipper over the RCBS with the fin on it. In fact, I have an extra for backup, because they were on sale one time. I have an RCBS and it sits idle, but it's there if I ever need it. My regular use Ly dipper, which has been in service for many years, has had it nozzle drilled out to the next larger sizer, stoned smooth around it's mouth, and regularly gets reamed and smoked for optimum efficiency. In short, it works really, really good FOR ME. I imagine some of the rest of you might dislike making boolits this way. No problemo on my part. Oh, and don't forget that I'm a southpaw and using moulds with sprue plates that open the WRONG way and dippers with nozzles on the WRONG side is but a mere inconvenience, just like everything else all you dead left brained people design. If John Browning had designed it like a 1911, all this stuff would be truly ambidexterios! And while I'm on that subject, did you realize that a 1911 is actually better for a lefty? Every stock control is FULLY available, AND when you clear and make safe, holding it in the left hand, the ejction port and chamber are FULLY visible WITHOUT having to turn it over. Okay, rant over. "Right turn, Clyde."

If I were going to show a newbie how to pour really good rifle boolits, I would show them the dipper technique. Pull out a Lee pissola mould, 2 or 6 banger, I'd go straight to the bent stemmed, handle replaced, Lee dipper and run the pot on the go-go notch with straight WWs.

Boxers or briefs? Depends. sundog

[D.Mack]

Sundog I think I either missed something, or need a definition adjustment. What is the differance between a ladle and a dipper? DM

[sundog]

Ladle is open, like a soup ladle or a spoon, used for pouring. Dipper is a closed, usually cast iron, orb open on one end to fill by dipping in to the melt, and the other end with a nozzle to press against the sprue hole. Tip it over together with the mould to fill acavity. Alloy does not expose to the air while filling the mould, thus maintaining both heat and full weight of alloy behing it. Dippering can make some really beautiful boolit bases! All other things being equal, the base is the most important part of the boolit, with or without a gas check. It must be completely filled out. sundog

ladle - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=161177

dipper - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=286579

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I just love a spirited discussion.

[shooter2]

I've tried bottom pour a few times over the years, but never got satisfactory results. Always went back to My Rowell bottom pour ladles and have pretty much given up on bottom pour pots as a technique for me. I rarely use the little Lyman dipper, but I have two moulds that work best with it for some unknown reason. To each his own I guess.

[snowtigger]

I use a Lee20-4 bottom pour pot. I have used it enough to get good results. I don't cast anything but .44 and .45 bullets. The lightest bullet i cast is 240 gr, the heaviest 550gr. ( Lyman 462560) With that one, I hold the sprue plate right against the spout. It casts some really good bullets, with a variation of +/- 1 1/2 gr. That's pretty close for a bullet of that weight.
I usually cast these at about 800 degrees, according to my RCBS thermometer. By going to a half full pot, my Lee will max out at something over 1050 degrees. I used this temp to add some .999 fine silver to some alloy a couple years back. Made a 5% silver bullet alloy for my .44 mag. (dem was hard!!) I just wanted to make some "Lone Ranger" bullets.
ForStraight WW/2%tin, I use about 700 degrees+/- 25 degrees. If it gets hotter, I add alloy, colder, I just wait. Makess a da*n good bullet.
When I first started, I used a dipper, but it was so slow I soon abandoned it. There are new and better ways to do this today, we don't have to be stuck in thw 19th century.
Not trying to tell anyone how to do it, just telling how I do it,,:castmine:

[Bucks Owin]

Gee, what a lively exchange of ideas! :-)

FWIW, the method that seems to works best with my downpour setup was to add 25% lino to the straight WW mix, lower the temperature to around "4" on the Production Pot, (I don't know what the "actual" temp is) and aim the alloy straight through the sprue hole at a high rate of flow and keep the lead aimed at the sprue as long as possible. This results in big one piece sprues (DC mould) but seems to be the trick to getting the mould filled out properly. I also needed to slow down a little or I'd start getting some frost....(Being able to bottom pour seemed to make it easier to cast too fast)

The 50% of boolits that I kept weighed in at (generally) within 1 or 2 grs.....(.357 "163 gr" SWC) I found that .44 cal 250K boolits were easier to get good results with, no doubt just my "style" I guess...

Still refining technique,

Dennis

(Oh. And keep the mould as close to the spout as possible but not in contact. If I "force filled" I got too many "fins and whiskers"....)

[44man]

Thanks, Sundog. I agree 100%. I can cast as fast as anyone, I don't see where the bottom pour is faster at all. But I work at an even pace, don't cut still melted sprues, don't drop boolits so soft they bend and don't force a still melted boolit against the side of the mould cutting the sprue by cooling the sprue before the boolit is hard. It seems to me that the lead has to freeze just right and the bottom pour that works takes the same amount of time. The one that doesn't work freezes the boolit before it is a boolit. It takes more time to line up the mould with the bottom spout then to pick up a ladle. Then you have to crook your neck to watch it.
I guess me and you are going to stay in the stone age and be happy.
And then there is the problem of a little slag building up in the bottom spout that will shut down the casting until it is cleaned out. SOOOO much easier to clean a ladle without draining the pot. How about the leaky spout that drops a drop into the sprue hole before the rod is lifted or when the lead spills into the next sprue hole of a six banger because you were too slow dropping the rod or didn't move the mould smoothly?
No one will ever convince me that bottom pouring is a smooth, trouble free operation!

[44man]

Bucks, I see you kept 50% of the boolits! How would you like to have zero rejects or at the most 1 or 2 out of a couple of hundred? My first boolit is perfect and I might find one that has a tiny slag spot. Still OK but I toss it.
Is the fictional speed of the bottom pour worth it? I can cast so fast with a ladle that the sprue seems to never harden and have run 3 moulds at once. I almost always cast with 2 double cavity moulds.
Seems a waste of time to cast for 2 hours and throw back a full hours worth of boolits into the pot.
I gave up that insanity over 50 years ago.

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks, I see you kept 50% of the boolits! How would you like to have zero rejects or at the most 1 or 2 out of a couple of hundred? My first boolit is perfect and I might find one that has a tiny slag spot. Still OK but I toss it.
Is the fictional speed of the bottom pour worth it? I can cast so fast with a ladle that the sprue seems to never harden and have run 3 moulds at once. I almost always cast with 2 double cavity moulds.
Seems a waste of time to cast for 2 hours and throw back a full hours worth of boolits into the pot.
I gave up that insanity over 50 years ago.

Well, as I said, I've been "dipper" casting for the 20 yrs since I wrecked the Production Pot. I used to cast mainly .50 to .58 cal minies and RBs with it up until then without much problem. I'm just hoping I can get used to bottom pouring again. ..

But like you, I'm only interested in high quality bullets. If I'm not able to get better than 50% of them after a trial period, you can bet I'll go back to "dipping"....(or "ladling" or "scooping" or whatever.... :-) )


Dennis :Fire:

BTW, the speed of either method seems to be about the same when only using one mould. Either style can easily make frosted boolits by overheating the mould! Maybe it's just my style of casting...

I do like the fact that not handling the dipper is a step that's eliminated....

[44man]

Bucks, all I can say is that if your pot supports bottom pour and you get the kinks worked out--Go for it. I am not and have never been against the bottom pour. I am only concerned about the poor guy like me that doesn't have the equipment that will do it. And that is the deciding factor.
It just gets my goat when someone says it is the best way and only way to cast. It doesn't work that way when we have no control of how the pot actually works.

[sundog]

Me too. Find what works and make boolits. I don't know about all y'all (that's Okie for some such as you'ns but really means plural of y'all which is 'everbody'), but what works fer me may not work fer you. I made some purdy nice .22 boolits today. sundog

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks, all I can say is that if your pot supports bottom pour and you get the kinks worked out--Go for it. I am not and have never been against the bottom pour. I am only concerned about the poor guy like me that doesn't have the equipment that will do it. And that is the deciding factor.
It just gets my goat when someone says it is the best way and only way to cast. It doesn't work that way when we have no control of how the pot actually works.

Only temperature and rate of flow but that "should" be enough. What other control do we have with a dipper for that matter?

But anyway, I agree there is no "best" way, only what works for the individual.

Best,

Dennis

[montana_charlie]

Earlier in thread I said...

Now, I'm trying to get good 500+ grain bullets, and I can only succeed when using that damn Lyman ladle.
Now, I see I should apologize for that terminology. I'm sorry fellas, I just didn't know it was a 'dipper'.

Then, I said...

I am in line to get one of the PGT loaner moulds (probably will arrive today) to try out. I'll see if an iron mould...or Victory Mold's unique venting method...works better on the 'down low'.

I tried out that PGT mould from Victory, last night. The venting on it is really strange, but it works. With the halves closed tight, you can see light through it from almost any angle...but not a single 'fin' except when I let things get hotter than necessary.

I cast groups of bullets at three temperatures, 700°, 750°, and 820°. I used the ladle...uhh, make that dipper...for half, and the bottom spout for half, at each temperature setting.

In all cases, the dipper made the prettiest bullets, though some of the others could have been called 'keepers'. The 750° setting worked best...with only a couple of rejects out of fifty.

All of the 'chrome shiny' ones weigh within a grain of the 550 gr. target weight, with none on the light side.
I haven't loaded any of these honeys, yet, and I already want a Victory-made mould. It is even more of a joy to use than my NEI blocks.

From last night's results (I quit at 2 a.m.) I guess I'm a
'dipper whipper' from now on.
CM

[454PB]

Yes, use whatever works best. I cast all my boolits with a dipper for the first 10 years or so, and since I'm a lefty, I removed the handle and brazed it on the other side. When Lee came out with their first bottom draw pot, I got one and spent several casting sessions getting used to it. The more I used it, the less I used the dipper. I now own three Lee pots, one 10 pounder with the nozzle brazed closed for smelting in small quantities and dipper use, one 10 pounder for small casting sessions or .224 boolits, and a 20 pounder for the big guys and long sessions.

One thing I don't understand is how Lee owners can make good boolits with the thermostat set so low. Mine all run best at #7 to #7 1/2. With straight linotype, I might go as low as #6. All three of my pots use the same settings, which, by the way, correspond to a temperature of two zeros added: #7 is around 700 degrees. I measure temperature with an infrared digital thermometer.

I think the most important thing to learn with the bottom draw pots is how to modulate the flow and pressure. A 20 pound pot filled to the brim requires some careful control, but once down around 60% is easily operated. I've used them so long I wasn't even aware of what I was instinctively doing. I really learned more about my own methods while teaching my son to use them.

[Ken O]

Having done a lot of both ladeling and bottom pouring, I dont see how anyone is haveing problem with either. The basics are the same, the mold needs to be hot, the pot hot, and set the bottom pour for the flow you would if you dipped.
I prefer to bottom pour, I put kitty litter on top which seems to keep an even temp. While the pot is heating up I put the mold on top with a piece of Kaowool on top. Then I dip the corner of the mold in the melt until the lead doesn't stick. I throw the first cast back in the pot weather its good or not, then go for it. Talking about a Lee six holer, I pour, de-sprue, dump, then wave it a few times back and forth in the air to cool, or if I have a fan set up I put it in the wind.
I have no difference in the cull between bottom pour or ladeling.

[44man]

Ken, thats the way it should work. How hot the pot gets and how even the tempurature stays is the problem. I have watched the lead start to freeze in several pots before the thermostat cycled back on. Pot was all the way up. I took the thermostats apart, cleaned the points, had to bend the contacts and adjust it before the problem stopped. Both stay hotter now but the bottom pour will not work.
There are no new thermostats to be had because the pots are too old.
Both of my friends newer pots don't get hot enough either. Every bottom pour boolit is full of wrinkles no matter the setting or speed of casting. Heating the mould with a torch will allow about 10 good boolits until it reaches a steady temperature and the wrinkles come back.
My Lee gets hot enough and I can make some good boolits with it but I still find the ladle easier.
I know about half the guys out there have some sort of pot trouble.

[Bass Ackward]

I know about half the guys out there have some sort of pot trouble.


Boy you can add me to that list. Oh, sorry, different pot.

Laddles, dippers, plungers, in todays high tech world you would think they could make a pot that wouldn't leak! Rant over.

[Bucks Owin]

I think either my Lee pot's thermostat is wacky or else there is a lot of variance in them. If I set my "dial" to 7 or 8 I start getting frosted boolits very quickly. "4 to 5" seems about right. I guess a thermometer is the final answer. Is there some industrial supply where one could get a thermometer cheaper than say Lyman or RCBS's offerings?

I'm "thrifty" (ok.....cheap) :roll:

Dennis

[44man]

I sure would not worry if it gets too hot! You can do anything with it. It only takes some tweaking to get what you need and you don't need a thermometer to find the sweet spot. I sure never worry about frosted boolits either, they be GOOD.
The main problem are pots that run too cold.
I make my own beer and have a Brew heat I heat water in. I burned the element by forgetting I was boiling cleaner and it went below the element. They are the same as a hot water heater element. I replaced it with the same rating element and it takes three times longer to heat. I can see why there is so much variation in the heating elements. China must have a hand in making them!

[KCSO]

I currently have one of each, bottom pour and a ladle set up. They both work fine, they just need a little different technique. Hey I even used a giant ladle and 2 ten hole H and G's to make 38 wadcutters from a 50 lb pot. Whatever it takes to get the coon.

Joe,

There ain't nothin' wrong with a persuction gun 'cept you cain't find caps in the crick bed here abouts. Although I wil admit that we were did better in the War of Nothern Agression when we stil had flinters on the line.

[Blacktail 8541]

Bottom pour or dipping does not matter as long as you are enjoying yourself. I have an RCBS pot that does not leak and it will get hotter than 900dg. My best temp seems to be right around 700dg with WW + 2.5 tin. I get a few rejects but not many, If I cast 500 boolits I may loose 15 Depending on how picky I am. But I tend to do the same with a dipper. I like the bottom pour for the boolits that I go thru quickly, 45 acp ect. For my single actions and hunting boolits I tend to use a dipper because I use a 50/50 mix of lino and WW and don't like draining the pot; I also shoot them a lot slower. I enjoy both bottom pouring and dipping and would not choose one over the other.

Expence wise any new caster would be smart to start with a laddel or dipper and see if they like casting before makeing a major investment. I'm sure the Lee pots are ok but I hear of too much aggrevation for me to reccomend them. On the other hand I would like to see most newbies get a luber so some sort,

[454PB]

I think either my Lee pot's thermostat is wacky or else there is a lot of variance in them. If I set my "dial" to 7 or 8 I start getting frosted boolits very quickly.
Dennis

That's good! Use a wet sponge to control the temperature of the Mould and you'll find the frosty boolits fill out better and fewer defects.