T/C Renegade Found

[pietro]

I ran across this TC Renegade 56-SB (smoothbore) yesterday - from the days when some states, in the infancy of black powder deer seasons, were "afraid" of rifles and mandated smoothbores.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1056075/DSCN0690.JPG

I would guestimate that it hasn't been shot since the laws allowed rifles in the early/mid -70's.

It only had a light patina of rust in the bore (only), that cleaned right out, once I got it home after forking over the princely sum of $50 for it.

Since I have zero intention of using the SB on deer, I also went online last night, and won an auction for a T/C .54 Renegade barrel - that I intend to drop in next week.

I can't recall, and the auction seller didn't say, if those issue .54 Renegade barrels are 1:66 round ball barrels, or if they're 1:28 slug barrels - Does anyone know ?

It'd be a LOT easier, working up loads, if I could use the same Knight Red Hot sabot loads I currently use in a Knight .54 inline.

.

[Johnch]

I may be wrong
But I believe mine was 1 - 48

John

[AJ Peacock]

I agree with Johnch, I think they were the same as the old Hawken's 1-48"

AJ

[bubba.50]

1-48 i believe is right. was 'sposed to be compromise so you could shoot conicals and round balls with equal accuracy. worked pretty well in the one i had. never had much luck w/sabots though, too hard to load after the first one. just my opinion, bubba.

[Gunfixer]

My renegade is a 50 cal and 1-48 twist. My New Englander is 54 and also a 48 twist Both shoot RB's in 1 hole @50yds.

[Uncle R.]

1-48 i believe is right. was 'sposed to be compromise so you could shoot conicals and round balls with equal accuracy. worked pretty well in the one i had. never had much luck w/sabots though, too hard to load after the first one. just my opinion, bubba.

My old .54 Renegade is at least very close to 1:48 based on "tight patch on the cleaning rod" measurement. Like all compromises it leaves something to be desired on both ends of the scale. Round balls shoot very well with light to moderate charges like maybe up to 70 grs. of 2f. Push it toward heavy hunting loads and accuracy suffers. I tried many types of conicals too but never found ANY conical load that shot better than fair-to-middlin and the heavier (Read: longer) the bullet the worse the accuracy.
<
Wisconsin allows muzzle loaders for deer in "shotgun" areas and I long bought the Renegade years ago hoping to reach further than the 100 yards I could get with a good slug gun. It wasn't to be. Essentially my Renegade is a 100 yard gun for nearly any big game. Round balls for deer - conicals for elk or moose - it can handle most anything but only out to 100 yards or so.
<
The 1:48 is too fast for balls and too slow for long bullets and there's the pickle. Light charges with round balls make lovely groups at 100 yards but lack the power for longer ranges - and conicals with heavy charges have plenty of power but 6" groups at 100 yards are not what you need for a long-range rifle.
<
There's a reason why modern in-lines have those fast-twist barrels.
YMMV.
Uncle R.

[hamour]

Put a Green Mountain .58 RB barrel on there and you will have a great round ball rifle.

I have a .62 caliber GM smooth bbl rifled by Ed Rayl and hope to test it out this year on some pigs and a deer or two.

Congrats on the find.

[pietro]

Thanks for the help - AND the kind words. :smile:

I'm hoping to get more than two shots between bore wipings with this .54 - impossible with my Knight .54, which becomes a real BEAR to load after two shots with Pyrodex. [smilie=b:

It's not all that bad on a hunting rifle, though - since it's rare that I've gotten a second chance after a miss.
I just find it a PITA when zeroing & during practice.

The .58 cal barrel isn't a bad idea - I was toying with ordering one - but GM is out of stock and building up enough orders for a production run IMO, making a delivery timeframe "iffy".
That made it easy to bid on the inexpensive .54 barrel online - putting me into the gun for only about $120, before I sell the .56SB barrel.

From what I can gather, quite a few like the .56SB with pellets as a 28ga shotgun for birds & small game - but my state mandates that a small game BP arm be less than .40 cal, saying nothing about a SB rifle posing as a shotgun.

.

[hamour]

Pietro, over at Muzzleloading forum, they have a lot of people shooting traditional weapons, you might find a good used GM barrel there.

In the classified section some one is selling a used TC Renegade .54 bbl.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/showcat.php/cat/34

You can ask around and see if any one has an extra drop in .58 bbl or .62 bbl for the TC Renegade or Hawken.

They have a lot of info on how to shoot roundballs.

Have fun

[northmn]

A smooth rifle is good out to at least 70 yards. Smooth rifles, guns built like rifles but with a smoothbore, were not uncommon. Taylor talked about using a smooth 10 bore on elephant when he could not get ammo for his regular guns. They were easier to keep clean, fouled less and could hit at close range along with rifles. Whiel there is some debate about them they have examples of smooth rifles in longrifles. Some think they were bored out others think they were original. Some had sight and DST's. There is little practical advantage in a 58 over a 54 unless you are hunting large game. As to clean shooting with patched ball, use a cleaner type lube like Hoppes#9 plus or Shenandoah. Also a tight fitting combination requiring a short starter will foul less than a loose fit. ( You do not need a hammer to seat them, thats too tight) Grease lubes are best for hunting. Original recommendations for a Rennegade were about a 015 patch and 530 ball, but a lot of them shot with 535 ball.

Northmn

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

Ah Ha! You must live in the Peoples Republik of Taxaxchusetts. I can recall not being able to shoot my TC Hawkins in Mass due to that smoothbore regulation.


Tell ya what.

Ill trade you a complete ready to shoot Traditions .50 cal inline with the special fires from an open bolt Mass "Feature" in exchange for that TC Renegade 56-SB.


I actually want to try shooting ducks with a smoothbore Black Powder.

If you would rather trade it for a Sea Duck hunting trip in Saco/Scarborough Maine I could do that also.


or Ill trade some snowshoes & boots http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63819

Capt Walt

[pietro]

Actually, Captain - I'm from the Providence Plantations :mrgreen:

Thanks for the kind trade offers, too - but as I posted above, I'm waiting on the arrival of a .54 barrel for it, that I won at auction Saturday nite.

If the .54 barrel fits and works out OK, I'll probably sell the .56-SB barrel only, which might not do anyone a whole lot of good, w/o a lock/stock to go with the barrel. ;)

.

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

The Barrel It may fit my TC Halkens.

Let me know

Newenglandcharters@maine.rr.com


Well it sounds like the .56 Renegade barrel wont ft the .50 Hawkins.... So... Play with the Renegade, see if you like it or knot and if you deside to swap me it with both barrels sometime down the road. We can do that.


The oil goes in the hole on the barrel marked "Seven-Ten"http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/60e371e05e792296

[pietro]

The .56-SB barrel is a 1" octagon, with T/C's hook-in patent breechplug, so I would presume it would be a straight swap into a T/C Hawken or Renegade stock/lock - I'll see what develops, and let you know. [smilie=6:

[hamour]

For the Renegade bbl to fit a TC Hawken the Hawken must be a .54 caliber. The .54 Hawken has a 1" bbl just as the Renegade. The .50 and smaller Hawkens have 15/16" bbl flats.

A .50 caliber Renegade has 1" bbl flats.

[shdwlkr]

I have several TC's from .32 up to 54 caliber. I have never had an issue with shooting round or long ball in them, but then I realize that I am shooting black and my range is limited to 200 yards or less and that when loading for a given range you have to shoot many loads before you find what your rifle likes. None of mine like loads on the heavy side for caliber. The one in 48 twist works you just have to spend a whole lot of time learning what your given rifle likes. TC did lots of testing before deciding on that twist so don't see why everyone has so much trouble with it, they weren't stupid they had some really smart engineers who shot black come up with that twist. Try it and see if it works for you, you never know

[oldfart1956]

Thanks for the help - AND the kind words. :smile:



From what I can gather, quite a few like the .56SB with pellets as a 28ga shotgun for birds & small game - but my state mandates that a small game BP arm be less than .40 cal, saying nothing about a SB rifle posing as a shotgun.

. Pietro do a little checking on your game laws concerning small game guns. I know you said they have to be sub-40cal. but that's rifles. Your 56 is not a rifle..it has no rifeling in the barrel so it's classified as a smoothbore...a shotgun. It may have sights front and rear..that doesn't make it a rifle! Putting a scope on a pump shotgun doesn't make it a rifle..does it? Try some shot out of it for small game and you might be quite pleasently surprised. Standard 28ga. plastic wads might even fit down that bore..try it. Or just use overpowder&overshot wads. Keep in mind it's a cyl. bore so keep shots under 30yds. And if you can find roundballs to fit you might just be surprised what a smoothie will do as well. JMHO of course. Audie..the Oldfart.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

the 1:48 twist is not the problem, shallow rifling is. Nearly all of the surviving J&J or S Hawken rifles have the original 1:48 twist. They just had the rifling cut .010-012" deep. Look at the offerings from current ML barrel makers. Good ones have the same deep cut rifling. CUT RIFLING, not the shallow button rifled barrels on the cheap stuff they sell at Wal-Mart these days.

Rich

[pietro]

I got a chance to shoot the .54 cal renegade barrel, I bought online last week - and it shoots great with the old T/C Maxi-Hunter's !

So good, in fact, that I'm gonna go strictly with the .54.

.

[lonewolf5347]

I had a t/c flinter in 54 cal. kit gun from the late 70's will it shoot RB you bet your life. i good on a good day almost have s hots touch at 100 yd. from the bench:
My load was 230 RB Hornady goex 3F 95 grains .017 pillowpatch material and a 56 wad under the patched RB.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/thompson%20center/P1040007.jpg
I did part with it a few years back only to fund another project
I was lucky the other day and found a NOS t/c special run barrel for the renegade 1 in 66 in 54 cal.
I did not let that barrel slip away
I found another t/c renegade stock,I will keep it as a winter project glass bed the tang,peep sight set up also stip the t/c finish and redo the stock with tung oil lowsheen.

[Swampman]

Standard T/C barrels shoot PRBs just fine even with hunting loads.

[DIRT Farmer]

A lot of old T/C Hawkins and double trigger Renagads with sewer pipe rifling fron lack of care end up as first rate target guns with a new drop in Green Mountin barrels. If I rember, .32 to 58 in both RB twist and around 1/20. check Tip Curtis at Frontier Gun Shop.

[pietro]

It turned out that the .54 barrel swapped right in & shoots good, too.

Since I acquired the Renegade, I also ran across a .32 cal rifle with a GM drop-in barrel in a T/C Hawken stock, and a .50 cal roundball twist flinter. :violin:

It's a good thing I was also fortunate enough to be swapping hot air with a small local funshop owner - when he told me he had a passel of ML "stuff" that he had no use for.

Sooooo, I got 25 boxes of .54 maxihunters, 10 boxes of .50 lead RB, and 4 boxes or .310" & .315" .32 RB's - all for $30 !
It took two trips, to carry all that out to my car ! [smilie=w:

.

[DIRT Farmer]

Pietro I feel sorry for all of the hard work you had to do.

[EOD3]

It's a good thing I was also fortunate enough to be swapping hot air with a small local funshop owner - when he told me he had a passel of ML "stuff" that he had no use for.

Sooooo, I got 25 boxes of .54 maxihunters, 10 boxes of .50 lead RB, and 4 boxes or .310" & .315" .32 RB's - all for $30 !
It took two trips, to carry all that out to my car ! [smilie=w:

.

Wow, that's a tough break!

I have a Renegade in .50 that makes a great "pressure relief device". A day at the range with a pound of coal will brighten your attitude considerably. :p:cool:

[Upstate Matt]

I got one of those 56 SBs this year. Put a bucket out at about 50 yards. Hit it then hit the hole! Then I quit while I was ahead.

[Geraldo]

It turned out that the .54 barrel swapped right in & shoots good, too.

Since I acquired the Renegade, I also ran across a .32 cal rifle with a GM drop-in barrel in a T/C Hawken stock, and a .50 cal roundball twist flinter. :violin:

It's a good thing I was also fortunate enough to be swapping hot air with a small local funshop owner - when he told me he had a passel of ML "stuff" that he had no use for.

Sooooo, I got 25 boxes of .54 maxihunters, 10 boxes of .50 lead RB, and 4 boxes or .310" & .315" .32 RB's - all for $30 !
It took two trips, to carry all that out to my car ! [smilie=w:

.

I'm really beginning to hate you, Pietro. :kidding: If I come up to New England can I hang around with you just to catch the deals you don't want?

You could keep the .56 barrel to use as a shotgun/smooth rifle. If you search on muzzleloaderforums you will find a couple of guys who jug choke smoothbore barrels to improve patterns.

I've got .54 and .62 GM smoothbores, and shooting PRB in them is really an exercise in frustration. I've had awesome three shot groups at 50 yards, but if I shoot 10-20 rounds the knuckleball-like effect of no rifling becomes evident.

[smoked turkey]

Pietro, too bad you didn't give the .56 SB a try as a 28 ga shotgun. I load mine up with about 55 gr (volume) Pyrodex RS, an over powder card, a ballistics products 28 ga wad, about 5/8 oz no 4 or no 71/2 shot and top off with 1/2 of an over powder card. Great stuff on squirrels to about 30 yards. Does good also with patched round ball to 50 yards. I wish I had found your deal cuz mine cost me quite a bit more than your deal.