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View Full Version : Hooked on long range BPCR.



JeffinNZ
04-20-2006, 12:48 AM
Hi

Over Easter I finally got to shoot beyond 100m. I shot my .38/303 out to 500m and what a hoot! This is a 0.303 British blown out to .375 shooting a 274gr 20-1 bullet over 60gr Swiss 1.5Fg compressed .35 for 1370fps.

Nothing quite like hitting a 12 inch bull at 500m/550y! Once I got dialled in the rifle put 3 shots into 7-8 inches. REAL happy.

Buckshot
04-21-2006, 04:14 AM
.............HA! So you're shooting a 38-60 :-)? Supposedly if you take a 30-40 Krag and blow it out straight you end up with a reasonable facsimile of a 40-60 Maynard. Steve Garbe shot a rifle chambered to such a thing and that's what he called it. I suppose if you just said it was a 30-40 blown out to 40 cal it wouldn't have been allowed. Anyway he won the BPCR Nationals at Raton with it several years ago.

There seems to have been a trend for the past few years for some of the guys to try and get the '38's to be competitive. I admit to having lost all track of what's hot and what's not in that sport, when Shooters.com went belly up.

................Buckshot

shooter575
04-21-2006, 11:34 PM
JeffinNZ
That sounds like a interesting conversion.Got some more info on it? Case cap.What action you using.Would be neat on a Martini. Using one of the cheep SMLE with a trashed barrel would make a nice set up also.

Buckshot. A 40-60 out of a 30-40 Hmmmmm. Just what I need.Another idea!

JeffinNZ
04-23-2006, 11:38 PM
JIM: Thanks for the interest.

The rifle is a converted MLE (Lee Enfield, Long Tom) ex NZ Army circa 1908 on the receiver. The barrel is a domestic .38 groove .375 made by the late Tony Hawkins who knocked out the best barrels you've ever seen but then up and died! I know!

I blow the .303 British cases out with 15gr Green Dot and a case full of corn meal and they fire form nicely in the .38/303 chamber; annealled first of course.

To be honest it is the UGLIEST rifle you are likely to see but MANNNNN does it shoot! I get sub 2 MOA on a regular basis which for a floppy Lee Enfield action is about a good as one can expect.

Case capacity is maxed at 60gr compressed with a seated bullet but if you had a long throat and maybe breech seated you could probably get 70gr in it. Not that's a big load for a .38. 60gr is heaps for me.

cheers

J

shooter575
04-24-2006, 09:36 AM
JeffinNZ
Thanks for the feedback.I will keep it in mind.I need another project like another hole in my head.But ???? you know how it is.

4060MAY
04-24-2006, 10:37 AM
If you blow out a 30-40 Krag to .40 cal and trim to 2.21 you will get a 40-60 Maynard 1882 cartridge, the original had a 300gr bullet IIRC, I'm shooting a 430gr bullet with 1-16 twist Badger barrel. with throating I can get 64gr Goex FF in the case with .25 compression. more powder than is needed. mostly shoot 58gr CTG.

The cartridge made into .38cal is suppose to be a 38-50 Remington, I believe originally for the Hepburn, among others. My 38-50Rem is on a Hepburn with a 1-12 twist Shilen barrel, I usually shoot 56gr Goex CTG with 321gr RCBS bullet for Chickens and NEI Gunn bullet for the rest. The 38 has almost no recoil and is a pleasure to shoot. last match on the rams 7/10 in some really nasty wind, it will shoot as long as the eyes hold up.

chuck

JeffinNZ
04-24-2006, 06:02 PM
Interesting comments Chuck.

The .38-50 RH is basically what my .38/303 is. Sadly though my barrel is 1-18 so I can spin up the longer .38 bullets. I would like to shoot a 330-ish grain bullet but will have to wait for a fast twist tube.

cheers

J

4060MAY
04-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Jeff
Are Green Mounatin barrels available in NZ ?
or is the price out of line?, Track of the wolf has them for $212 +ship.USD
1-12 tapered oct. nice looking barrel. just bought one for a RB.

Chuck

bart55
04-24-2006, 11:40 PM
I have a hajeed martini witha really trashed bore and barrel ,I wonder if that would be a good start for one of these any suggestions . My shoulder seems to ache a little more as I get long in the tooth ,maybe this would be a good alternative to the 45 70 and 5070 I shoot now , or maybe just a good excuse for another project

Bigjohn
04-25-2006, 04:16 AM
I have a hajeed martini witha really trashed bore and barrel ,I wonder if that would be a good start for one of these any suggestions . My shoulder seems to ache a little more as I get long in the tooth ,maybe this would be a good alternative to the 45 70 and 5070 I shoot now , or maybe just a good excuse for another project

Bart, I have been considering blowing a .303 British case out to .40 cal which comes in a close second place as a 40/60 Maynard. I happen to have a Martini Enfield .303 action (complete) which I feel is suitable for such a conversion.

If your action is a 303 British action there will be no need to alter the extractor claws; however if yours is a 577/450 action your will need to alter the extractor and sleeve the firing pin. 303 actions already have the firing pin work done. As for strength wise, the actions are quite capable of with standing a .40 cal. on a 'blown' out 303 or 30/40 Krag.

The only other thing to watch out for is the length of the cartridge case you base your cartridge on. This is because to enter the chamber the cartridge must turn a slight curve to eneter the chamber. I have a .303 action which has been converted to .45/70 Govt.; long projectiles not seated in the case cause a slight problem at loading and required a little bit of extra manovering to get it into the chamber.

I once had a Martini Cadet converted to .357 mag., .38 spl cartridges went in no problem; .357 mag's required a little extra effort in manipulating the breech lever.

Inspite of the limitations on projectiles, the Martini 45/70 shoots well, I hope to take it game shooting some time soon.

John

JeffinNZ
04-25-2006, 05:14 AM
CHUCK: Yes, I can get a GM barrel over here is need be but the Hawkins tube is cool for now. I really have no need for a heavier bullet at this point as I am just punching paper - no silhouette in my area......yet.

:drinks:

J

Bad Ass Wallace
04-25-2006, 06:57 AM
303 and 30/40 case are being used for BPCR 38's. Another gaining popularity is the 348 Winchester expanded to 38 which will give 72gn of powder capacity. Coupled with a GM 1 in 12" barrel bullets up to 370gn can be used.

Of course for a traditionalist, the 50/90 in a 14lb Sharps with 650gn Paul Jones boolit and 105gn FG is hard to pass at 1000yds

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Big50_BD.jpg

Dale53
04-25-2006, 11:32 AM
Even my head hurts thinking of that. After shooting a hundred or so of a little ol' Browning BPCR or my Sharps '75 in 40/65 (with 422 gr bullet ahead of a case full of Swiss 1 1/2) produced all of the fun that I needed for that day (and many just like it).

Dale53

montana_charlie
04-26-2006, 01:54 PM
Bad *** Wallace,
Looking downrange over your left shoulder, I noticed how you rest your rifle in the cross sticks. Have you tried (and didn't like) resting close to the muzzle?
CM

waksupi
04-26-2006, 08:11 PM
Bad *** Wallace,
Looking downrange over your left shoulder, I noticed how you rest your rifle in the cross sticks. Have you tried (and didn't like) resting close to the muzzle?
CM

Good question, Charlie. I get my best accuracy with the barrel resting on the sling of the cross sticks, myself.

montana_charlie
04-26-2006, 09:29 PM
And another thing, Bad ***...all that (cough) SMOKE!
Don't you get any wind in Australia? Looks like you need to set up some fans to (cough - hack) blow that outta there...

Where I shoot, the smoke is gone before the rifle finishes recoiling, and the wads fall twenty feet to the left of the line of sight.

Every now and then one of my wife's hens gets her butt turned into that wind...and ends up laying the same egg three times.
CM

JeffinNZ
04-27-2006, 03:43 AM
Every now and then one of my wife's hens gets her butt turned into that wind...and ends up laying the same egg three times.
CM

:-D :drinks: :lol:

Bad Ass Wallace
04-27-2006, 07:00 AM
Nothing like Wyoming, I hope:Fire:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/wind.jpg

I actually won a new set of delux cross sticks in a recent shoot. I am so impressed with that 650gn Creedmoor boolit. We had a 12-15mph cross wind that day and while the 45/70's and smaller were occasionally 1/2 a buffalo to the left due to wind, that big muther just kept punching them near center.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Sticks.jpg

shooter575
04-27-2006, 10:20 AM
Hey BAW,Them sure be some nice shooting sticks! I like the croch of a tree I have at my backyard range.Tough to take to a shoot somewhere else though

KCSO
05-05-2006, 10:55 AM
I tested my 50 cal cross stick rifle and my Sharps by resting at various points until I found where each would grop the best. It was a big surprise to find out that just where you rest could make a large difference in group size. My 50 Cal rests best on the second rr ferrule and the Sharps is best just ahead of the fore stock on a leather strap rest and on the front of the fore stock with a hard stick rest.

montana_charlie
05-05-2006, 01:59 PM
Nothing like Wyoming, I hope...
Nope. When we used chains, the whipping action on 'gusty' days kept slinging links off of the end.
After a few broken windows and a stone-dead horse, I hung a railroad tie from an A-frame on a length of winch cable.
On some days the cable seems to stretch a bit, but I've never seen the tie get fully horizontal...
CM

sundog
05-05-2006, 02:35 PM
Charlie, we tried the winch cable thing here in the Territory, but the end kept getting so frayed from whipping around it snapped like a whip and whistled too much. Now all we got left is a big ole anvil asettin' on a turntable down low on the ground.

Black Prince
05-05-2006, 04:19 PM
One way to determine what spot on your barrel is most likely to give you the best accuracy when you rest on it is to hold it by the buttstock and use a plastic screw driver handle or plastic faced hammer and tap the barrel at different places. Most places the barrel will "ping". When you get to a "dead spot", that is where the barrel vibrations are least and that is where you are most likely to find that if you rest your barrel there, it will shoot best. Try that method and see if the spot you have already discovered shoots best for you isn't pretty much the same as where the "dead spot" is when you "ping" your barrel. I'm betting that it will be.

montana_charlie
05-05-2006, 07:05 PM
I just tried a similar method, Black Prince.

I had been resting the forend of my Sharps on a sandbag, and my groups were nothing to brag about. Of course, I had just started with a new bullet, and I had some looseness in the front sight to contend with. But those groups were really bad.

Yesterday, I finally got groups in the 3 by 3, and 2 by 3 range by resting the barrel (about eight inches in front of the forend) on the bag.

I found that spot by holding the rifle by the receiver, hanging barrel down.
I tapped up and down the tube with a rawhide mallet till I hit a spot where my hand holding the action felt no vibration.

That appears to be the sweet spot...or one of them...on that barrel.

I wonder if it would change if the forend was removed...haven't looked into that, yet.
CM

WBH
07-20-2006, 05:09 PM
Dale 53. Where do you shoot BPCR in SW Ohio?

Boz330
07-20-2006, 05:56 PM
WBH,
If you are interested in shootin steel, Miami Rifle and Pistol has a match on the second Sunday at noon. They are just outside Milford off of US50 east of east I275. There are also some matches in Friendship IN at the NMLRA Range.

Bob

WBH
07-21-2006, 08:43 AM
Boz....I have been a member of MRPC for several years. Mostly test my loads at the 200 yard BR area. I am retired so I shoot midweek mornings. Sometimes I am the only one there.

GregP42
07-22-2006, 01:56 AM
Boz....I have been a member of MRPC for several years. Mostly test my loads at the 200 yard BR area. I am retired so I shoot midweek mornings. Sometimes I am the only one there.

WBH,

I just joined there, waiting to hear back from them and get my card. I have been to the last 3 BPCR shoots there, it is a lot of fun and I am learning a bunch.

Greg

PatMarlin
07-22-2006, 10:14 AM
Looks like a whole bunch of fun.. :drinks:

I don't even want to look anymore, cause I can't afford it, but someday.. :Fire:

WBH
07-22-2006, 04:23 PM
Greg, Talk to Dick Hoff or Armin, they have a bunch of info to share. I am in the process of manufacturing and marketing a new BPCR lube. I would be glad to send you a sample to test for me if you e-mail me your address. I have been sending it out to many clubs and shooters to evaluate and report back. I am rarely available on the weekends to shoot there. I shoot midweek am's. BTW if you ever need any BPCR gunsmith work John King in Kila MT is the man. He restored 3 of my Remington RB's. Superb work.

KYCaster
07-22-2006, 10:35 PM
[QUOTE=WBH]Greg, Talk to Dick Hoff

"Dick Hoff", DICK HOFF!!!! Now hold on just a minit there!!!!!! Boz303 showed up here just a few days ago, now we have people talkin' 'bout DICK HOFF!!! Next thing ya know Hiseman will sneak in the back door, an' there goes the neighborhood!!! They're worse than the "Three Amigos" fer chrissake!!!! They jump outta perfectly good airplanes just for grins 'n giggles.

Hoff is the guy that used to land in the middle of King's Island every afternoon just to scare the kids. Back in "The Day" the three of them kicked the Army skydiving team's *** across the room then made 'em go pick it up!!!!

Ahh, but that was a long time ago......I guess they're not so wild these days. (sigh)

Had a couplea beers with Boz this afternoon.:drinks:
Jerry

WBH
07-23-2006, 11:29 AM
Way tooooooo small a world. [smilie=s:

moodyholler
07-23-2006, 02:20 PM
Thanks for all the info!! I have been following along and just picked up my new BPCR rifle yesterday and am raring to go shooting. Here are a couple of pictures. moodyholler
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/moodyholler/HEPBURNA.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/moodyholler/HEPBURNB.jpg

PatMarlin
07-23-2006, 04:02 PM
[smilie=w: ...... on that rifle there Moody..!

What is it? I'ts a beaut for sure.. :drinks:

moodyholler
07-23-2006, 04:59 PM
Pat, it is a Remington Hepburn. The calier is 45-70 and it has an 1-18 twist. Barrel is a Badger and is 32" long. Sights are PU's(Parts Unknown). moodyholler

13Echo
07-23-2006, 05:14 PM
That is one georgeous Hepburn! I'm green with envy! The barrel may be new but the wood looks original. Any history to the rifle?

Jerry Liles

Four Fingers of Death
07-23-2006, 08:58 PM
Nice rifle Moddy, shame about the non rustic background.

At MacDonalds at Lithgow (just around the corner from the Lithgow Small Arms Factory) there is a weather meter. It is a rock on a chain, the sign says something like:

Rock dry: Fine
Rock wet: Rain
Rock white: Snow
Rock swinging: Wind
Rock gone: Hurricane.

The kids always ran straight to it when we stopped there. Mick.

moodyholler
07-23-2006, 09:01 PM
Jerry, it came from an oldtime gunsmith's estate in Bedford,Va. It had a 38-40 Hepburn barrel on it when my friend bought it. The serial numbers did not match. SO he had the 45-70 barrel put on it. The wood is original and in really great shape. I really like it heaps. Hope to make smoke soon. moodyholler

Bigjohn
07-23-2006, 11:06 PM
Moody,

Whereabouts you living? I might have to come over and convince you that you really don't need that rifle and that I can offer it a really nice home. :kidding:

Good one, let us know the results on the range.

John.

Boz330
07-24-2006, 09:02 AM
Greg,
I know you now, see you at the next match.

WBH,
Hoff and I grew up together. I have probably met you somewhere along the way at MRPC. I've been out there with Dick several times during the week. If you would like someone else to try your lube both Dick and I are always looking for something new and improved. Even better let me try it and don't tell Dick, I need all the help I can get kicking his butt. I have to get even for all the times he kicked mine in Jr NRA matches back in the middle of the last century.

Bob

PS KY Caster thanks for the Bud Lights.:drinks:

WBH
07-24-2006, 03:51 PM
Boz,
Just e-mail me your ship to address and I'll get a sample out to you. I'll send you 2 1/2 sticks, and you can decide if you want to share with Dick.

GregP42
07-25-2006, 08:48 AM
Greg,
I know you now, see you at the next match.

WBH,
Hoff and I grew up together. I have probably met you somewhere along the way at MRPC. I've been out there with Dick several times during the week. If you would like someone else to try your lube both Dick and I are always looking for something new and improved. Even better let me try it and don't tell Dick, I need all the help I can get kicking his butt. I have to get even for all the times he kicked mine in Jr NRA matches back in the middle of the last century.

Bob

PS KY Caster thanks for the Bud Lights.:drinks:


Bob,

I think I know who you are now, yea I am the one that went from long hair to no hair. I will see you at the next match, it looks like it is on the Aug 6th. this time.

Greg

Boz330
07-25-2006, 10:46 AM
Greg,
It should be the 13th, 2nd Sunday.

Bob

GregP42
07-25-2006, 10:50 AM
Greg,
It should be the 13th, 2nd Sunday.

Bob

Bob,

That is what I thought too, but the club website has it listed the other way. You got Armin email address or number so we can check?

Greg

GregP42
08-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Bob et al,

I double checked and the match is this Sunday the 6th. Anyone in the area should show up if you can.

Greg