gas checks

[roarindan]

what is the function of a gas check? as you see by my post count, I havent been casting long, reloading for my mini 3 in 7.62 this is the only boolit i use that needs a gc.

[Wally]

Performace---I used an RCBS 55 grain cast bullet in my .223 Rem...on batch with and the other without---8.0 grains of Unique @ 2,100 FPS...w/o the gas check the accuracy was deplorable--using one, it was fantastic

[Heavy lead]

Performace---I used an RCBS 55 grain cast bullet in my .223 Rem...on batch with and the other without---8.0 grains of Unique @ 2,100 FPS...w/o the gas check the accuracy was deplorable--using one, it was fantastic


Wally, please define how good? I'm thinking about casting those itsy bitsy pills for a 223 CZ. What alloy? What lube? What twist? What primer?
Let me know please.

[Wally]

Shooting at 250 yards I can get 3~5" groups using a Std Rem 700 rifle..Wolf Small Rifle primers--WW metal quenched from the mold--homemade lube, 50/50 chuch candles & lithium grease. I do even better with my .22-250 using cast bullets w/gas cehcks. Will soon be testing aluminum home made gas checks as the factory ones are too darn expensive

[Heavy lead]

Shooting at 250 yards I can get 3~5" groups using a Std Rem 700 rifle..Wolf Small Rifle primers--WW metal quenched from the mold--homemade lube, 50/50 chuch candles & lithium grease. I do even better with my .22-250 using cast bullets w/gas cehcks. Will soon be testing aluminum home made gas checks as the factory ones are too darn expensive

Very nice, you talked me into getting into the NOE 55 grain group buy of the clone of the RCBS boolit. I burn a lot of Unique, so I'll give it a try, have 2-22-250's and 3 223's to feed, and a 14 year old nephew that likes to burn the ballistic tips, I'll set him to casting and save some dough too.

[mooman76]

The gas check serves several functions. It protects the base of the bullet to prevent leading making it so you can push a bullet harder and at a faster speed. In some cases actually will make the bullet more accurate even at slower speeds. If you are shooting a bullet that is slightly too small and you can't for some reason shoot the right size you need or it isn't practical then it can help. In other words sometimes it helps correct things that aren't quite right.

[blackthorn]

Here is what I have on Gas Checks:

Gas checks yield positive results primarily in 4 ways. Gas checks:

1. Provide a scraping action to remove accumulated lead. While some leading will occur as each bullet is fired, the gas check is designed to restore the barrel to its pre-fired unleaded condition and prepare the barrel for the next shot.

2. Eliminate or greatly reduce gas cutting, which is important in higher pressure loads and in firearms where somewhat undersized cast bullets are used, or in firearms with large throats or wide spots in the barrel and so on. This is accomplished due to the greater yield strength and melting temperature of the gas check. While some gas cutting or leading can still occur, it is not problematic as long as it is not enough to overwhelm the inherent scraping action of the gas check or the rifling’s ability to grip the bullet.

3. Provide an increase in bullet “yield” or “shear” strength with respect to the rifling by replacing what would be a base of lead alloy with an alloy of copper. In many cases, this also results in more bearing surface providing additional strength.

4. Provide a uniformly flat base to the bullet, which is an important component of superior accuracy, as the bullet exits the barrel. Non-uniform bases have a significantly adverse effect on accuracy, which is always a possibility with PB bullets unless extreme care is used during the casting and seating process.

A contributing factor to both effects 1 and 2 above may be the “spring back” quality of the check and the likelihood of expansion of the check itself that can occur when the check is seated on the bullet’s base or that which takes place when pressure forces out any air remaining between the check and the shank and obturates the shank itself. This would enhance the scraping and sealing qualities of the check.

Which of the above effects comes into play depends on the bullet, load (read pressure), firearm, lube, and so on. If you have low enough pressure in a smooth barrel with a properly fitted bullet with an adequate lube, nothing is to be gained by the use of a gas check. If you have all (or enough) of the above, none of the 4 points above are necessary. However, anytime that pressure goes up, barrel quality goes down, bullet quality and lube deteriorates (to include loss of bullet bearing surface and size), etc. then some or all of the above four points become important, if not crucial.

In short, a gas check allows many things to be less than perfect while maintaining acceptable accuracy and higher performance and velocities than we could otherwise achieve without it. In many cases it makes life much easier for the casting novice as it reduces the need for more extensive testing with bullets, lubes, and loads than would otherwise be required.

Hope thats helpful. Have a great day!

[StarMetal]

Here is what I have on Gas Checks:

Gas checks yield positive results primarily in 4 ways. Gas checks:

1. Provide a scraping action to remove accumulated lead. While some leading will occur as each bullet is fired, the gas check is designed to restore the barrel to its pre-fired unleaded condition and prepare the barrel for the next shot.

2. Eliminate or greatly reduce gas cutting, which is important in higher pressure loads and in firearms where somewhat undersized cast bullets are used, or in firearms with large throats or wide spots in the barrel and so on. This is accomplished due to the greater yield strength and melting temperature of the gas check. While some gas cutting or leading can still occur, it is not problematic as long as it is not enough to overwhelm the inherent scraping action of the gas check or the rifling’s ability to grip the bullet.

3. Provide an increase in bullet “yield” or “shear” strength with respect to the rifling by replacing what would be a base of lead alloy with an alloy of copper. In many cases, this also results in more bearing surface providing additional strength.

4. Provide a uniformly flat base to the bullet, which is an important component of superior accuracy, as the bullet exits the barrel. Non-uniform bases have a significantly adverse effect on accuracy, which is always a possibility with PB bullets unless extreme care is used during the casting and seating process.

A contributing factor to both effects 1 and 2 above may be the “spring back” quality of the check and the likelihood of expansion of the check itself that can occur when the check is seated on the bullet’s base or that which takes place when pressure forces out any air remaining between the check and the shank and obturates the shank itself. This would enhance the scraping and sealing qualities of the check.

Which of the above effects comes into play depends on the bullet, load (read pressure), firearm, lube, and so on. If you have low enough pressure in a smooth barrel with a properly fitted bullet with an adequate lube, nothing is to be gained by the use of a gas check. If you have all (or enough) of the above, none of the 4 points above are necessary. However, anytime that pressure goes up, barrel quality goes down, bullet quality and lube deteriorates (to include loss of bullet bearing surface and size), etc. then some or all of the above four points become important, if not crucial.

In short, a gas check allows many things to be less than perfect while maintaining acceptable accuracy and higher performance and velocities than we could otherwise achieve without it. In many cases it makes life much easier for the casting novice as it reduces the need for more extensive testing with bullets, lubes, and loads than would otherwise be required.

Hope thats helpful. Have a great day!
[QUOTE=blackthorn;675880]Here is what I have on Gas Checks:

Gas checks yield positive results primarily in 4 ways. Gas checks:

1. Provide a scraping action to remove accumulated lead. While some leading will occur as each bullet is fired, the gas check is designed to restore the barrel to its pre-fired unleaded condition and prepare the barrel for the next shot. If there isn't ample enough groove directly ahead of the check the scrapings aren't going to have anywhere to go.

2. Eliminate or greatly reduce gas cutting, which is important in higher pressure loads and in firearms where somewhat undersized cast bullets are used, or in firearms with large throats or wide spots in the barrel and so on. This is accomplished due to the greater yield strength and melting temperature of the gas check. While some gas cutting or leading can still occur, it is not problematic as long as it is not enough to overwhelm the inherent scraping action of the gas check or the rifling’s ability to grip the bullet. I believe the name tells it's original purpose....to check the gas.

3. Provide an increase in bullet “yield” or “shear” strength with respect to the rifling by replacing what would be a base of lead alloy with an alloy of copper. In many cases, this also results in more bearing surface providing additional strength. It does nothing to the yield strength of the bullet other then help with the rifling grip. If the bullet isn't of the proper alloy and strength for the task at hand, the gas check isn't going to help.

4. Provide a uniformly flat base to the bullet, which is an important component of superior accuracy, as the bullet exits the barrel. Non-uniform bases have a significantly adverse effect on accuracy, which is always a possibility with PB bullets unless extreme care is used during the casting and seating process. This is true only if the base of the bullet is pretty correct. Things that make it incorrect is a very high sprue cut. Depends too if you started your gas check on square.

Joe

[nighthunter]

I agree with blackthorn's statement of a gas check giving a superior base to the bullet. I think this is one of a gas checks most important purposes. A bullets nose can be deformed and still give acceptable accuracy but the slightest deformation to a bullets base will greatly effect accuracy in a hurry. A gas check also helps prevent gas cutting at higher pressures. Gas cutting is the propellent gas reaching around the bullets base and actually melting the bullets surface before it leaves the barrel of the firearm. This function also aids in preventing leading.

Nighthunter

[StarMetal]

Nighthunter,

That's elementary....that's exactly the function the check was intended for....a better base...to prevent gas passing it. Blackthorn merely re-stated what the original manufacture said.

Joe

[Bret4207]

A post in the "Classics and Stickies" addresses this question-
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48857

[Larry Gibson]

I disagree with some of Starmetals critic of blackthorns assessment of what GCs do I note in red.

Larry Gibson

Gas checks yield positive results primarily in 4 ways. Gas checks:

1. Provide a scraping action to remove accumulated lead. While some leading will occur as each bullet is fired, the gas check is designed to restore the barrel to its pre-fired unleaded condition and prepare the barrel for the next shot. If there isn't ample enough groove directly ahead of the check the scrapings aren't going to have anywhere to go.

Pretty much agree here except there doesn't have to be very much of a groove in front of the GC. Most leading is accumulative and a GC most often scrapes out what is deposited by the bullet it is attached to.

2. Eliminate or greatly reduce gas cutting, which is important in higher pressure loads and in firearms where somewhat undersized cast bullets are used, or in firearms with large throats or wide spots in the barrel and so on. This is accomplished due to the greater yield strength and melting temperature of the gas check. While some gas cutting or leading can still occur, it is not problematic as long as it is not enough to overwhelm the inherent scraping action of the gas check or the rifling’s ability to grip the bullet. I believe the name tells it's original purpose....to check the gas.

No disagreement here!

3. Provide an increase in bullet “yield” or “shear” strength with respect to the rifling by replacing what would be a base of lead alloy with an alloy of copper. In many cases, this also results in more bearing surface providing additional strength. It does nothing to the yield strength of the bullet other then help with the rifling grip. If the bullet isn't of the proper alloy and strength for the task at hand, the gas check isn't going to help.

Big disagreement here. I think the reason for the "s around "yield" and "shear" is that blackthorn knew they were perhaps not the correct terms for what he was trying to say. His intent is quite clear though and correct. A GC does indeed allow higher velocities at improved velocities with softer alloys. This is self evident with such classics as any 150-160 PB vs the 3581156 in a .357 magnum or the 429421 vs the 429244 in the .44 magnum. It is also quite apparent with comparable weight bullets, PB vs GC, in rifles of any calliber. You will be able to exceed the accuracy limit of a hard cast PB bullet by a considerable margin with a softer alloy if using a GC.

4. Provide a uniformly flat base to the bullet, which is an important component of superior accuracy, as the bullet exits the barrel. Non-uniform bases have a significantly adverse effect on accuracy, which is always a possibility with PB bullets unless extreme care is used during the casting and seating process. This is true only if the base of the bullet is pretty correct. Things that make it incorrect is a very high sprue cut. Depends too if you started your gas check on square.

Come on Joe, blackthorn's assumption was the GC was put on correctly. Screwing up the base by putting it on a high sprue or on crrooked has nothing to do with what the GC does, not what we do wrong. We don't expect the GC to correct our errors.

I think blackthorn's assessment is fundementally correct and is a concise answer to roarindan's question

[StarMetal]

I disagree with some of Starmetals critic of blackthorns assessment of what GCs do I note in red.

Larry Gibson

Gas checks yield positive results primarily in 4 ways. Gas checks:

1. Provide a scraping action to remove accumulated lead. While some leading will occur as each bullet is fired, the gas check is designed to restore the barrel to its pre-fired unleaded condition and prepare the barrel for the next shot. If there isn't ample enough groove directly ahead of the check the scrapings aren't going to have anywhere to go.

Pretty much agree here except there doesn't have to be very much of a groove in front of the GC. Most leading is accumulative and a GC most often scrapes out what is deposited by the bullet it is attached to.

2. Eliminate or greatly reduce gas cutting, which is important in higher pressure loads and in firearms where somewhat undersized cast bullets are used, or in firearms with large throats or wide spots in the barrel and so on. This is accomplished due to the greater yield strength and melting temperature of the gas check. While some gas cutting or leading can still occur, it is not problematic as long as it is not enough to overwhelm the inherent scraping action of the gas check or the rifling’s ability to grip the bullet. I believe the name tells it's original purpose....to check the gas.

No disagreement here!

3. Provide an increase in bullet “yield” or “shear” strength with respect to the rifling by replacing what would be a base of lead alloy with an alloy of copper. In many cases, this also results in more bearing surface providing additional strength. It does nothing to the yield strength of the bullet other then help with the rifling grip. If the bullet isn't of the proper alloy and strength for the task at hand, the gas check isn't going to help.

Big disagreement here. I think the reason for the "s around "yield" and "shear" is that blackthorn knew they were perhaps not the correct terms for what he was trying to say. His intent is quite clear though and correct. A GC does indeed allow higher velocities at improved velocities with softer alloys. This is self evident with such classics as any 150-160 PB vs the 3581156 in a .357 magnum or the 429421 vs the 429244 in the .44 magnum. It is also quite apparent with comparable weight bullets, PB vs GC, in rifles of any calliber. You will be able to exceed the accuracy limit of a hard cast PB bullet by a considerable margin with a softer alloy if using a GC.

4. Provide a uniformly flat base to the bullet, which is an important component of superior accuracy, as the bullet exits the barrel. Non-uniform bases have a significantly adverse effect on accuracy, which is always a possibility with PB bullets unless extreme care is used during the casting and seating process. This is true only if the base of the bullet is pretty correct. Things that make it incorrect is a very high sprue cut. Depends too if you started your gas check on square.

Come on Joe, blackthorn's assumption was the GC was put on correctly. Screwing up the base by putting it on a high sprue or on crrooked has nothing to do with what the GC does, not what we do wrong. We don't expect the GC to correct our errors.

I think blackthorn's assessment is fundementally correct and is a concise answer to roarindan's question

Larry,

I disagree with you. You can't change the yield strength of the bullet alloy just by adding a gas check to it. Yes, you can make it shoot faster which makes you think you have. The alloy is what it is. You still only go so fast with a soft alloy even with a gas check on it. Using a PB to compare with a GC is a poor example Larry. It's evident with a plain base what a GC does when it's driven too hard, isn't it?

I'm firm in my belief that the GC was invented for the sole purose of it's name...to keep the gas behind the bullet. If they intended for it to increase the shear strength of the bullet then it would have been called a jacketed bullet.

Has anyone really proved that a GC scrapes lead out of the bore?

Joe

[carpetman]

I have shot the RCBS in .22 cal 55 grain in .222, 22-250 and .223. The .223 is a win mod 70 (bolt action) which is very accurate with jacketed bullets but I was never able to get it to shoot cast. The others shot moj (minute of jackrabbit) very well. Ran out of gas checks once and shooting them without the check seemed to make no difference.

[Larry Gibson]

Joe

You're off on a tangent again and simply arguing a non-point. The question was "what is the function of a gas check". Part of that "function" is that the GC allows a higher velocity that a PB bullet with any given alloy. I do not think blackthorn meant that the "yeild strength" of an alloy was changed. I think he just meant a higher velcoity using a GC could be gotten with any given "yeild" or "shear" strength is all. Attepting to argue a defintion of a quoted word obviously used only as a description and that has nothing to do with the question is counterproductive. It is a fact that you can drive GC'd bullets of a given alloy with accuracy to a higher velocity than with a similar PB'd bullet. I don't think you really want to debate that, do you?

Blackthorn did put those two words into quotation meaning he was probably using them somewhat out of context. It is readily apparent what is meant and it is of no use to finitely define each word and argue a useless point. We understand what blackthorn meant. Perhaps if you simply take the description at face value then you will understand also.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Joe

You're off on a tangent again and simply arguing a non-point. The question was "what is the function of a gas check". Part of that "function" is that the GC allows a higher velocity that a PB bullet with any given alloy. I do not think blackthorn meant that the "yeild strength" of an alloy was changed. I think he just meant a higher velcoity using a GC could be gotten with any given "yeild" or "shear" strength is all. It is a fact that you can drive GC'd bullets of a given alloy with accuracy than a similar PB'd bullet. I don't think you really want to debate that, do you?

Blackthorn did put those two words into quotation meaning he was probably using them somewhat out of context. It is readily apparent what is meant and it is of no use to finitely define each word and argue a useless point. We understand what blackthorn meant. Perhaps if you simply take the description at face value then you will understand also.

Larry Gibson

Larry,

There you go thinking again. If I'm off on a tangent you're sure to be there, huh?

Tell you what, I didn't call Blackthorn any names, didn't say he was stupid or anything like that, I just disagreed with some of his ideas/theories and that's just exactly what some of them are and not necessarily his. Until someone, like in professional analysis lab, find out exactly what all a gas check does, we can all assume (discounting the fact that they do stop the gas) all the theories we want....including me.

To Blackthorn I apologize if I stepped on your toes.

That should shut you up now, huh Larry? :kidding::kidding:

Joe

[Wally]

I have shot the RCBS in .22 cal 55 grain in .222, 22-250 and .223. The .223 is a win mod 70 (bolt action) which is very accurate with jacketed bullets but I was never able to get it to shoot cast. The others shot moj (minute of jackrabbit) very well. Ran out of gas checks once and shooting them without the check seemed to make no difference.

I have had great luck using them in my .223 Rem & the .22-250 (Remington 700's) using 8.0 grains & 10.0 of Unique respectively with the RCBS 55 grain bullet. I get 2,100~2,200 FPS MV. Tried some in the .223 w/o the gas checks...I was amazed how the flew all over the place---I set a can in a freshly disced, dry field at 200 yards and plugged away..showed me how important those gas checks were.

[Larry Gibson]

That's probably about as nice as Joe has ever apologised or admitted he may be wrong:-)

Thanks for the conversation Joe.

Larry Gibson

[carpetman]

Wally---what .223 are you using the 55 grain RCBS in? I don't recall the twist on my Win mod 70----but it aint right for that bullet is all I can figure----.222's and 22-250 different story. I gave up trying to get the .223 to shoot cast---it shoots jacketed great and I have the others that shoot cast.

[StarMetal]

That's probably about as nice as Joe has ever apologised or admitted he may be wrong:-)

Thanks for the conversation Joe.
Larry Gibson

No no, you're not turning that around to that I"m wrong. It's my theories and opinions, and we know those don't necessarily make things true/right...unless you're Einstein, which I am not. :grin:

Joe

[StarMetal]

Wally---what .223 are you using the 55 grain RCBS in? I don't recall the twist on my Win mod 70----but it aint right for that bullet is all I can figure----.222's and 22-250 different story. I gave up trying to get the .223 to shoot cast---it shoots jacketed great and I have the others that shoot cast.

Ray,

My CZ Hornet is extremely accurate with jacketed bullets. I hadn't been happy with cast in it up until just recently. I have found "the" bullet for it. With that said I found the 55 grain NEI shoots like the cats meow in my Hornet. My Hornet by no means has a twist as fast as 12.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Wally---what .223 are you using the 55 grain RCBS in? I don't recall the twist on my Win mod 70----but it aint right for that bullet is all I can figure----.222's and 22-250 different story. I gave up trying to get the .223 to shoot cast---it shoots jacketed great and I have the others that shoot cast.

Carpetman

Sometime in the last 10 (?) years or so Winchester put both 12 and 9" twist barrels on M70 .223s. Yours may very well have the 9" twist. I've M70 XTR sporter I picked up in the early 80s with a 12" twist. It and my M700V with 12" twist shoot cast quite well up into the 2200s. A couple M788 .222 and .223s with 14' twist 24" barrels did quite well up into the 2300s. That was some years back before i learned what I know today about pushing the RPM threshold. I expect to cast a bunch of 225438s, 225415s, 225462s this winter and revisit the .223 with 9 and 12" twists and a very sweet shooting M700 ADL in 22-250 with it's 14" twist next spring.

Many are happy with .223 loads in the 1800-2200 fps range as that essentially duplicates the .22RF Magnum. With an accurate load the .223 makes for a very good 150 yard squirrel/PD shooter.

I'm also going to work on a .22Hornet load as Joe has found. I should get a decent load with my new Savage m40 with it's 14" twist. I'm looking to push 225438 or 225462 up into the 2400 fps range with good "moa of squirrel"accuracy. We shall see.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Carpetman

Sometime in the last 10 (?) years or so Winchester put both 12 and 9" twist barrels on M70 .223s. Yours may very well have the 9" twist. I've M70 XTR sporter I picked up in the early 80s with a 12" twist. It and my M700V with 12" twist shoot cast quite well up into the 2200s. A couple M788 .222 and .223s with 14' twist 24" barrels did quite well up into the 2300s. That was some years back before i learned what I know today about pushing the RPM threshold. I expect to cast a bunch of 225438s, 225415s, 225462s this winter and revisit the .223 with 9 and 12" twists and a very sweet shooting M700 ADL in 22-250 with it's 14" twist next spring.

Many are happy with .223 loads in the 1800-2200 fps range as that essentially duplicates the .22RF Magnum. With an accurate load the .223 makes for a very good 150 yard squirrel/PD shooter.

I'm also going to work on a .22Hornet load as Joe has found. I should get a decent load with my new Savage m40 with it's 14" twist. I'm looking to push 225438 or 225462 up into the 2400 fps range with good "moa of squirrel"accuracy. We shall see.

Larry Gibson


Larry,

I have a Model 70 Winchester Varminter in 223 bought in late 1980's. Wonderful shooting jacketed rifle, but so far not so hot with casts. Haven't found a bullet or load it likes yet. Don't get me wrong, the groups are ok, but that think should cut less then 1 inch groups.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Has anyone really proved that a GC scrapes lead out of the bore?


I've recovered a bunch of gas checks with lead on 'em. They must've scraped some lead out.

[StarMetal]

I've recovered a bunch of gas checks with lead on 'em. They must've scraped some lead out.


I have too John, but I'm talking of an accumulation of lead scraping in the groove directly in front of the GC's leading edge.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

I have a Model 70 Winchester Varminter in 223 bought in late 1980's. Wonderful shooting jacketed rifle, but so far not so hot with casts. Haven't found a bullet or load it likes yet. Don't get me wrong, the groups are ok, but that think should cut less then 1 inch groups.

Joe

Joe

The M700V would put most 225462s into 1" or less at 100 yards with a velocity between 2100 and 2200 fps. I'm working on memory here as some of my loading notes got burned up in rage by my 1st wife during the divorce. The throat had been shot out to where i could seat the GC at the base of the neck and the leade would then slightly engrave the driving band. I was using H4895 and 4350 back then and probably 1/3-1/2 gr dacron. I don't recal which powder was used for the best accuracy. I do know that if velocity is dropped down to 1900-2000 fps the H4895 will also produce like accuracy with 225415. I never really got what I thought was good enough accuracy for shooting small ground squirrels with 225415 much over 2000 fps. However I was sizing the bullets .224 back then which probably didn't help. I also found that 225438 or 225462 at 2200 fps did a number on the little sqirrels and quite working with 225415. As noted in my previous post to Carpetman when I revisit the .22 CFs I will be sizing larger and using the knowledge I have gained on HV cast bullet shooting since my load development back in the '80s with cast bullets in the .22 Hornet, .223 and 22-250.

Larry Gibson

[carpetman]

my win mod 70 in .223 was made about 1982 I think.

[Larry Gibson]

my win mod 70 in .223 was made about 1982 I think.

Seems like it ought to have a 12" twist then. Should be able to come up with a cast bullet load for it. What .22 moulds do you have?

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Larry,

What length barrel is on the 700? To keep this on topic maybe my M70V just loads up the GC too much scrapping out 26's of barrel. [smilie=s:

Joe

[carpetman]

Larry Gibson--Only mold I have in .22 cal is the RCBS 55 grainer. I have tried several powders( don't remember which ones off top my head--no luck) I will not be buying other molds as the mold I have works in the .222's and 22-250 so it is really not a concern that cast dont work in the my .223.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

What length barrel is on the 700? To keep this on topic maybe my M70V just loads up the GC too much scrapping out 26's of barrel. [smilie=s:

Joe

The M700V was 24" but I set the barrel back and it is now 23".

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Larry Gibson--Only mold I have in .22 cal is the RCBS 55 grainer. I have tried several powders( don't remember which ones off top my head--no luck) I will not be buying other molds as the mold I have works in the .222's and 22-250 so it is really not a concern that cast dont work in the my .223.

Well that RCBS mould should be ok to work with. I was just thinking/offering to help you give it a whorl if you wanted to. No problem if you don't. BTW; What alloy are you using and what is the "as cast" diameter of the RCBS bullet?

Larry Gibson

[blackthorn]

Star Metal: No offence taken and no hurt feelings either. I simply set out to try to help a new member and from the looks of the replies generated by my post, I succeeded! Hopefully roarindan and others who take the time to read and think about all of this are just a little more knowlegable now. Have a great day everyone!!

[roarindan]

I am Very pleased with the speed and quality of the responses. Thanks a bunch fella's