Consistent mass produced molds

[COREY]

I am pretty new to all this; I just managed to get some smelting doen last week and I am now at the stage of buying a furnace and dies. I want to get a set of cowboy style dies for my revolvers and my lever rifle, but there are quite a few companies out there. My wife and I were talking and she said not buy the cheapest molds if I would not be happy; spend what I thought was reasonable for a really good set of molds and be done with it.

Could anyone point me towards a min. 4 cavity mold that pops out consistent bullets from each cavity? I have been looking at Lyman, Lee, and RCBS, but I do not know who else may be out there. I plan to keep them for quite some time (planning on kids soon, thus the reason for getting into casting now), so I am not worried about the cost (to a point).

[theperfessor]

I have had good luck with SAECO molds but they're pricey.

Same with Lee but sometimes I have to tweak them a little.

Haven't bought any new Lyman molds in a several years - the ones I have are fine but others here have pointed out the quality problems they seem to have lately.

RCBS only sells two cavity models.

A gentle suggestion: since you're new to this, why not get a Lee 2 cavity in the style you want to see if it works in your gun. They're only about $20 complete w/handles. If you like the style, then you can spend more for a similar style from another vendor.

And get some BullPlate lube and use as the directions say. It's great stuff and will make casting easier and prolong the life of your mold, aluminum or steel.

[Stick_man]

Corey,
From what I have heard (and I am still quite new at casting), most manufacturers will put out pretty consistent molds. However, there are a couple mold makers that do group buys that have great reputations. I am now waiting for the group buy to get rolling on a .358" 158gr HP and then will be watching (and saving up) for some .401" molds.

Good luck, and welcome to the world of casting. Be careful though (or not), it can be VERY addicting.

Happy casting!

[Dale53]

Corey;
Tell us what caliber moulds you need, and it'll help us to make specific recommendations. I have 65-70 different moulds from most of the major suppliers. Some are better than others.

The more information you can give us regarding caliber, use intended, etc the better we can serve you.

Dale53

[Echo]

+1 for what the ThePerfessor says. The Lee 2-bangers will let you get started and you will be exposed to the vicissitudes of our addiction, but it will be an inexpensive lesson. Once you learn that, while it's possible to start from scratch and start turning out perfect boolits from the get-go, it is highly unlikely. There will be tweaks to molds, alloy, lube, and furnace that you will have to learn on your own, with guidance from this forum. In other words, work on walking before you think about running.

[COREY]

I am loading for the 38 Special and/or 357 Magnum (most likely 38 Special). I am planning on a cowboy style RF in the 158 grain vacinity; the rounds will be for target practice at the range.

My thing is that since we are planning on having kids in the future, I want to cast to save some money; I am forking out the cash while I have it before a little mouth devours it. It will be hard to justify the purchase of better molds later once I have the cheap one to try out, so this is why I am going big now.

[stubshaft]

Paying more and getting better don't mean the same thing. I've been casting for over 30 years and have thinned the herd out to 90+ molds. I still use alot of my Lee moulds to feed my pistols and rifles. Yes, not all of the Lee moulds are perfect but how much accuracy difference would you see? Two 6 cavity Lee's will turn out a PILE of boolits in short order and you can practice shooting more and casting less.

[Pitmaster]

I am loading for the 38 Special and/or 357 Magnum (most likely 38 Special). I am planning on a cowboy style RF in the 158 grain vacinity; the rounds will be for target practice at the range.

My thing is that since we are planning on having kids in the future, I want to cast to save some money; I am forking out the cash while I have it before a little mouth devours it. It will be hard to justify the purchase of better molds later once I have the cheap one to try out, so this is why I am going big now.

I'm by far not an expert but I would go ahead and buy a Lee 6 cavity mould. I shoot a 162 gr. .38 special, truncated cone, tumble lube bullet. This mould has been used for years and works great. Cheap enough to get started and works fine. For 99% of cowboy shooters quantity of bullets is more important than a perfect bullet. Remember that little one will take up more time. With a 6 cavity mould you get 50% more bullets over a 4 cavity.

[JSnover]

Buy the Lee 6 cav. I'm still a novice and I'm throwing lots of nice boolits with mine. And if it acts up there's plenty of cheap easy ways to tune it.

[tommygirlMT]

Okay, basically if you want supreme quality molds either buy custom, group-buy, or SAECO molds in order of prefrence. When I say custom or group-buy I'm talking about the small time mold cutters including some we have that sell mostly on this forum.

Now --- on the other hand for some-one just getting started. My advise would be to buy a Lee six-banger mold. I wouldn't bother with one of the Lee smaller molds, the Lee six-banger molds are head and shoulders ahead of their standard molds in quality. I only own a select few of the Lee regular type molds specifically because only they make a few styles of large caliber rifle bullets that I like and they only make them in the standard mold blocks --- even then casting with those molds sometimes makes words come out of my mouth that would make a sailors ears burn. The much higher quality Lee six-banger molds have a life span of between 5,000 and 2,500 casting cycles that being 30,000 to 15,000 bullets cast from them depending on how much TLC you give them. That should be plenty enough bullets for you to cut your teeth on and then you might start thinking about custom molds and group-buy molds.

Since your shooting low to medium pressure handgun cartridges, I would also recommend starting out with using the Lee tumble lube and push through sizers to lube and size your bullets. You don't really need to start using bullets with "real lube" until you get up into the 454-Casull, 460-mag, 50 S&W line of heavy wheel gun cartridges. Then your do need real lube and gas checks. For the low to mid power stuff tumble lube is quicker and easier.

[Bret4207]

Don;t get a 6 banger to start with. Sorry TGMT but that's just 6 times the problems for a beginner. Start with a 1 or 2 cavity and learn to make good boolits. Then worry about production. Read the "Calssics and Stickies" section, read the Lyman books. Read back through the posts here. Learn to make GOOD boolits before you dive in too deep.

For the record. I took a brand new, never been used before Lee SC today and in 5 cycles I had it throwing PERFECT boolits. Not a flaw to be seen in 50 boolits. Mould temp, clean alloy, clean mould. That's all it takes.

[Dale53]

My recommendation is to buy a Lee Six cavity mould. Be SURE and preheat the mould before use (you can put the bottom end of the mould in the melt for 30 seconds-two minutes) to heat it up. With the mould up to heat, you will put much less strain on the sprue plate and handle in cutting the initial sprues. Some start out by filling just the front two cavities, then three, then on until using all. The idea is to bring the mould up to heat before trying to cut all six sprues at once. Once the mould is up to heat, they cut easily and are easy on the equipment.

Go down to the bottom of the page, here, and click on the link to the Bullshop. Get a bottle of Bull Shop Sprue Plate lube and USE IT. This will minimize the wear on your mould and extend it's life indefinitely.

I can recommend the Lee .358" 158gr RF as a really good bullet design for not only Cowboy shooting but general use. It has a large meplat that makes it "all around useful".

Remember, the Lee two cavity moulds come with handles. The six cavity mould blocks come without handles - they must be ordered separately. I prefer to lube/size with a lube/sizer (RCBS or Star recommended) but you can start out by pan lubing and using the Lee press mounted sizing die. It works very well but is somewhat slower than a lube/sizer machine.

Welcome to the wonderful world of bullet casting.

Dale53

[COREY]

Well, I guess I will give the Lee 6 banger a try; there is a store near Ottawa that sells them at a reasonable price. I have a Lyman lubrisizer that was given to me; it will cost about the same for me to set that up with the proper sizer than to buy the Lee sizing kit.

[Dale53]

Corey,
The Lyman and RCBS sizers use the same dies - they are interchangeable and both work well.

Dale53

[happy7]

Corey, I too started with the Lee six bangers. I am very pleased I did. If you are into quantity, they are the way to go. They make a very nice 158 gr RF design. However, keep in mind that most people find their first casting session very frustrating. Do not get discouraged. Just stick with it and soon you too can turn out 1000 plus bullets an hour. When you have a problem use this forum and you will be able to solve it. And bear in mind that if there is an issue with the mold like it is out of spec, Lee does guarantee their product and you can send it in and get a new one.

Be very clear on this point. If you do not get some Bull Plate Lube or other equivalent, and use it, you will very likely gall the top of the mold. Do not skip this. You NEED it. You have to treat all molds, both aluminum and iron gently. When they are hot they will gall and dent. But aluminum is worse. Be gentle with it and treat it right and a Lee six cavity will cast well for many years. But neglect to lube it and treat it rough and you will have torn it up in only a couple thousand bullets.

Also, preheat your mold either with a hot plate (easy) or by putting on the pot or dipping in the melt (not my personal prefference but others swear by it). Starting with a mold at proper temperature will solve a good many of your problems before they even happen.

Do not save money by getting a small pot. Once you figure out what you are doing you will drain a pot real quick with a six cavity mold. I recommend a 20 lb pot.

[Ricky P]

your wife and you were talking and she said to buy a good mould to start with WOW you got a keeper did not read past that. First of all my wife dont care about what Iam doing in the shop as long as the bills are paid. And she really dont care if I was happy while iam thinking about it just as long as she is happy maybe its time for me to rethink my life

[RayinNH]

COREY, welcome to the asylum.

I want to cast to save some money

Surely you jest. Unless your the most disciplined person on this site, it ain't happening. Oh it starts out innocently enough, before you know it the pot isn't big enough. Then you need a lubrisizer, and the dies that go with it, and lube. You need a reloading press and dies. The beam scale becomes too slow so now you need a digital scale. That new mould you see at the gun shop, it's going home with you too. Before you know it, you have moulds for guns you don't own yet :-D. At this point your now either reloading so you have something to shoot or your shooting so you have something to cast and reload for :veryconfu. Now comes the progressive press to keep up with demand.

Pardon my giggle.

To quote some nonsense in the news recently, let us know how that "Hope and change" thing is working out for you.

Giggle, oh sorry...Ray

[COREY]

I was planning on buying a Lee Pro 4-20; not much use of having a high capacity mold if you spend all your time melting lead.

As for my wife, she DEFINITELY is a keeper; smarts and looks are hard to find in the same package. She pulled me from being constantly in debt from buying s**t (seemd like a good idea at the time) to having money to throw around by simply being a sounding board before I went and spent a pile of money. Considering I can get W.W. around here from a local auto shop for about $5 for 40 lbs, it is stupid not to consider casting.

RayinNH, I know about the "saving money" by reloading. My wife has come to the realization that when I relaod, it allows me to shoot a large amount of ammo and not drive us to bankruptcy :). I have a room in the basement about 130 square feet just for my shooting gear. I ahve a relaoing bench and a gun cleaning bench, as well as single stage presses, progressive presses, and shotgun presses; casting was the only thing I was not doing and I had been given some casting euipment years ago.

When we bought our house, I measured the basement from end to end. The builder's rep asked why I was doing that and I told him it was to make sure my 10 m air rifle range would fit. He looked at me and asked if i was kidding; my wife looked at him and said not a chance that I was kidding :).

[Bret4207]

Well, if you are determined to start with a 6 banger then may I respectfully suggest you also get a hot plate to preheat it on? I'll wager 45% of the noobies problems come form a mould that isn't clean enough and another 45-50% come form the mould being too cool. Read the "leementing " posts and stickies and please understand the difference between pot temp and mould temp.

I live about an hour south of you near Ogdensburg NY. If you have questions...........I was going to say maybe we could meet up, but I forgot I have neither a Passport or enhanced drivers license! Oh well...

[Cloudpeak]

I respectfully suggest you also get a hot plate to preheat it on? I'll wager 45% of the noobies problems come form a mould that isn't clean enough and another 45-50% come form the mould being too cool. .

Pre-heating the mold with a hotplate will enable you to open the sprue cutter much more easily which is important on the Lee 6 banger's as this is a weak point. When you get the temp dialed in after some experience, you'll be able to easily open the sprue cutter on the first pour.

The other great thing about the hotplate is that you can use it to pre-melt your lead and then pour into your bottom pour. This speeds things along quite a bit and will help prevent "spout freeze" that can occur when you add an ingot to the bottom pour.

[tommygirlMT]

Guess I should clarify my earlier post. The question I believed the OPer was asking in his OP was specifically in refrence to high quality molds with at least four cavities. I believe that was what was stated. Therefor, limiting selection to molds of 4+ cavities I suggested a Lee six cavity mold as the newbie's first mold.

IMHO only the Lee 6 cavity molds are high quality products --- IMHO the standard Lee molds single and double cavity are not a high quality product and I would not wish to inflict them upon a newbie. Granted there are a few of the Lee standard single and double cavity molds that I personally am willing to tolerate --- albit not so well at times --- because I want that particular bullet shape that I can only get from Lee.

If the OPer wishes to start with a mold of less cavities then the original 4+ cavities he was looking for in his OP then a good single or double iron mold without rust purchased used for a good price would be my suggestion for a preferred first mold for a newbie --- just stay away from the Lee standard single and double cavity molds until you are an experienced caster and decide you want a particular shape that only Lee makes and doesn't make that particular mold cut in a six-banger. Then with an extra dose of patience and plenty of smoke breaks to ease the nerves they are tolerable.

My personal distaste for Lee standard single and double cavity molds did get my a little off topic of limiting selection to 4+ cavity molds in my earlier post. Please bear in mind though that this distaste is not without reason and based on plenty of experience with those darn things. And, yes, I followed Lee's instructions it's not like I'm a nit-wit and not smoking the mold or something. They wouldn't be bad if they didn't have those darn alluminum waffle things for alignment that occasionally still stick even when they have had the hell smoked out of them, or that super cheapo scrap metal spruce plate, or that darn too small spruce plate hole, or those cheapo handles that got more slop and rattle in them than an unrestored Model-T flathead engine valve set.

[9.3X62AL]

Tommygirl, your obvious depth of knowledge concerning casting AND automotive quirks is quite impressive. My girls can shoot, for sure--but none of them cast, and wouldn't know a flathead from a flatiron. Hijo la!

[Bret4207]

TGMT, The lee singles and doubles can be frustrationg. My method? Don't smoke them, don't smoke or use the so called "mould release" on any mould if you can possibly help it. It makes a smaller boolit and insulates the mould from much needed heat. Get the mould surgically clean, either use something like Bullplate or a carpenters pencil to rub down the pins and mating surfaces and bottom of the sprue plate. Then get the mould HOT!!! I immerse mine in the alloy till it stops smoking. Then pour. Done this way the first few boolits will remain molten for a very long time. Just let the mould cool with the boolit in it till the sprue is very well hardened and even then it may take another minute to get it to safely cut. 4-5 casts later you should be able to run the mould without the long wait. Then it's up to you to get your casting tempo going and pot temp adjusted to keep that mould hot enough to get perfect fillout.

Done this way I get fine boolits, no galling, no problems. Just my two cents and worth just what you paid for it.

[Dale53]

Bret4207;
I would like to second Bret's reply. The real secret to success with the Lee one and two cavity moulds is Bullplate Sprue Plate lube. I lightly lube the alignment surfaces and proceed. I don't need to over heat the moulds but I DO pre-heat the moulds.

I run the molten alloy at about 725 degrees. I use a small manicurists fan to maintain mould temp and quicken the sprue hardening. This $7.50 investment (fan cost at Target or Walmart) is some of the best money I have spent on casting.

Dale53

[theperfessor]

I stopped having alignment problems and wearing out my mold alignment surfaces (pins and holes, V-grooves and slots) when I learned to sit mold down with bottom on flat surface as I closed it.

+1 to everything that Bret and Dale have mentioned.

I have never smoked a mold and all mine cast good bullets when I do my part and pay attention to what the mold is telling me, although I have had a couple that required one or two casting sessions to season and for me to pay attention properly.

[Bret4207]

Bret4207;
I would like to second Bret's reply. The real secret to success with the Lee one and two cavity moulds is Bullplate Sprue Plate lube. I lightly lube the alignment surfaces and proceed. I don't need to over heat the moulds but I DO pre-heat the moulds.

I run the molten alloy at about 725 degrees. I use a small manicurists fan to maintain mould temp and quicken the sprue hardening. This $7.50 investment (fan cost at Target or Walmart) is some of the best money I have spent on casting.

Dale53

Dale, I didn;t mean to give the impression I'm overheating the mould. I guess in laymans terms I'm "cooking the grease out of it". It's the same as going through 25 or 30 cycles of poor fillout before the mould seems to straighten out and fly right. I'm sure many of us have seen those moulds that just seem to have some oil or something in them that all the cleaning in the world won;t fix. The heavy pre-heat seems to fix it.