Deep Rifling patch Ball Combo advice

[savage1756]

I have a beautiful PA longrifle with a .50 cal Colrain round ball Barrel and I'm currently shooting Hornady .490 roundballs with .020 Ox Yoke patches. The rifling is round cut and .016 deep. I've been using Shenendoah lube /cleaner for the patch lube. Although the groups I'm getting will dispatch any deer that is unlucky enough to get close enough to me, I'm not really getting the accuracy I think I should get. I know thats a wide interpretation but does anyone have any advice on patch thickness, ball diameter, lube that may help tighten up the groups?

I thought I would try some .495 balls as my next move.

[northmn]

As a rule you get better accuracy using a little larger ball in a 50. For top accuracy I have used 495's in different 50's. As to patch thinkness, I would think you would want to stay with a 020 with that deep of rifling. I have always wondered if that depth is not too much of a good thing. Your lube is a top choice among target shooters. Gilt edge accuracy is gotten using a load that requires a short starter, while many extoll the use of finger started ball, that will not give the top nit picking accuracy require for bullseye shooting. They do work for the hunting/primitive shooting sports many do.

Northmn

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
So far with my rifled muzzle loaders I have generally started with whatever Ball I had that closest fit the rifling. Then get a patch thick enough to give a good grasp/seal into the rifling. Nothmn mentioned a "short Starter" & as you increase patch grip/fit you will need one to get the ball going down the bore. With a SNUG fitting patch I would then begin playing with the load in 5 grain increments. With a 50 I would start at 50 grains 2F or 3F ( I personnally prefer 3F) and increase those LOADS 5 grains. 5 shots each load increment off a bench or crosssticks. You will find that "Most Accurayte Load" and as you go past with more powder you will find where it all goes wild again. Then just figure out what your max range is.. what your accuracy parameters are and you will have the load you need.
My old 58 shoots a 575 RB with a thin patch & 60 grains 3F to clover leafs at 50 yards. BUT I hunt with 85 grains as it still shoots 2.3 " at 50 yards (my longest possible shot in the bottoms I hunt) and 25 grains more 3F makes one big wallop of a difference. But getting to 90 + grains groups open up rapidly.
Every muzzleloader is an individual. They all vibrate differently, wiggle different.... and as one may like a smaller ball with a real thick patch (my 69 shoots a patched .645 far better than any other diameter) another may like the fattest possible ball with a thin patch.
It is like all other reloading. Try something else in the persuit of one hole accuracy... There may just be lurking a combination that turns that OK smokepole into a tack driver.

[405]

For sure like has been suggested and your thought of trying the .495 would be well worth it. Maybe even try a couple of different patch types/thicknesses.

Sometimes when shooting my flinters it's just me. They seem to take all the concentration I can give them to shoot accurately.

It'd be interesting to hear back on results as that bore type is now the rage with the round bottom grooves :).... and deep too at .016" ! Muzzleloader Mag just had an article on comparing accuracy between round and square groove bottom rifling. May be a hint of trend in the article but trials didn't seem complete enough to lay money on a clear winner.

[savage1756]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll be trying the .495 ball and start the testing. I'll report back as I go through the trials!

[2shot]

I have had my best luck with accuracy by adjusting powder charges in my muzzle loaders like Missionary said. To much or to little powder can wrech havoc no matter what size ball or patch. In my .50 cal Southern Mountain rifle that I built I get the best accuracy with Ox Yoke .020 patches pre-lubed and a .490 Speer RB w/85 grains of FFG BP. With 80 grains the group is terrible and with 90 grains the group starts to open up again. 85 grains is what I use for hunting also and it has blown through every deer I has shot and some from stem to stern.

2shot

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Muzzleloader Mag suffers from the same writing BS as does centerfire magazine writing. Too many vendors, too little difference in product. BvT

[mooman76]

A good thing you could do is go through your closet for some old shirts or material suitable for a ML of different thinknesses. With that deep a rifling maybe even thicker material might work out well. Just cut you a bunch of samples to try and try them all.

[nicholst55]

If I may, I'd suggest giving old Dutch Schoultz a shout. He's forgotten more about MLs than most of us will ever know! His Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System is highly regarded, and well worth the $15 he charges for the information.

http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

[savage1756]

Thanks for all the input. I have contacted Dutch on the matter as well. My first attempt this past weekend was to get .495 swaged round balls which I weighed out. I was a little surprised at the weight variation with some of them. I also used .020 Ox Yoke wonderlube patches. When I get a chance I'll post a link for pics of the targets and patches.

At 25 yards with a 90 grain hunting load it did well with 5 balls all touching once I settled down. At 100 yards it was about a 4 inch grouping of 5 balls. My patches still looked a little cooked around the riflling but my rifle was coned and not sure if that is enough to cause that. The fit was good which tells me I probably can try a thicker patch yet or maybe go to a .498 ball.

[curator]

A land diameter ball with a patch thickness 1 1/2 times the groove depth would be difficult to start but probably give the best accuracy. For this tight of ball/patch combo you will need ball-set & short starter that matches the curvature of the ball you are using and a good "dry" lube such as Dutch is likely to suggest. Many muzzyloaders prefer deep groove barrels because they don't like wiping the bore between shots and are happy with hat-size groups at 50 yards.

[Rattus58]

If I may, I'd suggest giving old Dutch Schoultz a shout. He's forgotten more about MLs than most of us will ever know! His Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System is highly regarded, and well worth the $15 he charges for the information.

http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

I concur.... improved my shooting to 1-2" at 50 yards...

Aloha.. :cool: