Sluging?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Howdy!

I all new to this casting stuff, been reading a lot, and have aquired everything but the spue lube, which has been ordered from Dan . . .

I have seen a pictorial of slugging a rifle, but how about a revolver?

I have 3 .357 Mags that I'm gonna start casting for plus a .44 cap and ball (which I'm not concerned with as they will be sized when I press them into the cyl)

I have four questions:

1. What is the best way to hold the revolver, so you can hammer the slug through the bore?

2. Once I get the slug out and measure it, should I plan on sizing .001, .002, .003 over the slug?

3. Should I also slug, or just measure the cylinder too?

4. Obviously if all three guns are the same, no worries, but what if they are different? How much will make a difference?

Thanks, [smilie=s:

[felix]

Size for the biggest cylinder hole of them all. A finger-only push through with friction is desired. Don't worry, the other cylinders will size them down, so make the loads the most accurate for the largest cylinder only. If any following gun does not shoot this load accurately, so be it. ... felix

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Size for the biggest cylinder hole of them all. A finger-only push through with friction is desired. Don't worry, the other cylinders will size them down, so make the loads the most accurate for the largest cylinder only. If any following gun does not shoot this load accurately, so be it. ... felix

So are you talking about finger pushing through the barrel? or just the cylinder?

[felix]

Just the largest hole you can find, which would be a cylinder hole. Forget the barrel stuff. Barrel stuff is for diagnostics only, in the situation the gun(s) won't shoot for you know what. ... felix

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Just the largest hole you can find, which would be a cylinder hole. Forget the barrel stuff. Barrel stuff is for diagnostics only, in the situation the gun(s) won't shoot for you know what. ... felix

So your saying drop a slug in the cylinder, (from the end I normally load from) push it through the cyl, and measure it, lets just say for instance it is .360 then is that the size I want to size all my boolits, even though the bore may be smaller?

[Calamity Jake]

Advice from Felix is spot on but I would slug the bore too, if the cylinder throats are smaller then the bore(on a lot of rugers they are) they need to be reamed to match the bore or .001-.002 over
Clamp a 1"X2"X10" pine or some hard wood strip in a strong bench vice with about 6" of it hanging out the side, open the cylinder and with the guns forcing cone resting on the 1X2 with barrel up and being held by a second party drive a slug thru the bore with a piece of brass rod 6" to 8" longer the barrel. When you feel the slug hit the wood remove gun and while holding it finish driving the slug thru and allowing it to fall on something soft.

It the cylinder throats are larger than the bore then size boolits the that dia.

[JRW]

FWIW; Enco (and others) sells a foriegn made set of gage pins, that are very useful for this matter. they aide greatly in sizing the cylinder of our wheel guns. they are normally sold in sets of about 60-80, and range in sizes from .250 - .500. might also check around the area and see if there are any machinist that might already have this tooling. using this type of tool eliminates any of the pounding associated with slugging the Cylinders.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Would there be a difference in slugging the cylinder, compared to just measuring it with a set of calipers? As that is what I'd measure the slug with . . .

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I just measered the cyl on the SP101 and they are all .358 both ways . . .
The Blackhawk are all .358 both ways, except for one chamber and that is .358 oneway, and 90 degrees it is .359 . . .

I have a Lee TL358158 SWC mold, if I sized it to .359 would the sizer make them fatter? (I do not have a sizer yet, but wanted to try the TL as they are supossed to not need sizing . . .)

I'm on the waiting list for the group buy on the Milhec 158 hp/170 fp which I believe is planned on being .360 but maybe only .359 . . .my brain forgets . . .

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Howdy!

I'm confused now!

I made a boolit trap, and recovered some of our boolits, they were measuring .352! (we fired the SP & SS)

I took an unfired boolit sized at .358, and was just barely able to finger press it into the cylinders of the SP101, the Security Six was easier, but not loose, same with Blackhawk . . .I took one of these unfired .358's and slugged the barrel here are the results:
SP101 = .352
SS = .352
Blackhawk = .355

Here are some photo's: (L-R SP, SS, BH)
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Slugging001.jpg

I ran the boolits "backwards" so the last end broke off below the lube groove
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Slugging002.jpg

Notice the Blackhawk has different riffling
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Slugging003.jpg

The Blackhawk was also harder to slug (took more "hammer" to get it through, but it is bigger, so . . . my question is . . .

Should I use a larger slug to begin with, as the bullet is being forced through it expands?

[Echo]

Those appear to be pretty hard boolits, and slugging should be done with soft lead. Fishing sinkers have been recommended, as have cast balls somewhat larger than the expected groove diameter. I'm not dissing your technique, but I suggest you re-slug the bores with soft lead (little egg sinkers from Wally World would do). When the boolit breaks apart it clouds the measurement.
And the BH taking more hammer, but measuring larger, is curious.

[lylejb]

I just measered the cyl on the SP101 and they are all .358 both ways . . .
The Blackhawk are all .358 both ways, except for one chamber and that is .358 oneway, and 90 degrees it is .359

Ok, there's your answer.:-)

I would size to .358, as that's what your throats are. As far as one throat being .001 out of round, I wouldn't worry about it. The boolit will expand under pressure (obturate....sp?) to fill that out without a problem in any reasonable load with any reasonable alloy. Very light loads or very hard alloys may require powder changes to keep the pressures up.

From reading your posts, will you be using a Lee push through sizer die? If so, get the .358, and size a few boolets, then measure the sized boolits to MAKE SURE THE DIE SIZES AS MARKED. Mine didn't. My .358 actually sized at .357. It's easy to sand out the die with some wet or dry fine sandpaper, now mine works as advertised. You could also sand out farther if you decided to try larger.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Ok, there's your answer.:-)

I would size to .358, as that's what your throats are. As far as one throat being .001 out of round, I wouldn't worry about it. The boolit will expand under pressure (obturate....sp?) to fill that out without a problem in any reasonable load with any reasonable alloy. Very light loads or very hard alloys may require powder changes to keep the pressures up.

From reading your posts, will you be using a Lee push through sizer die? If so, get the .358, and size a few boolets, then measure the sized boolits to MAKE SURE THE DIE SIZES AS MARKED. Mine didn't. My .358 actually sized at .357. It's easy to sand out the die with some wet or dry fine sandpaper, now mine works as advertised. You could also sand out farther if you decided to try larger.


Yes, I was gonna try a Lee sizer . . .

I have only shot those boolit through the SP & SS and it does lead them up, so I'm thinking that they are a tad small ( I bought these boolits from a local guy at a gun show) I have not started to cast yet, got everything but the sizer . . .

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Those appear to be pretty hard boolits, and slugging should be done with soft lead. Fishing sinkers have been recommended, as have cast balls somewhat larger than the expected groove diameter. I'm not dissing your technique, but I suggest you re-slug the bores with soft lead (little egg sinkers from Wally World would do). When the boolit breaks apart it clouds the measurement.
And the BH taking more hammer, but measuring larger, is curious.

I don't have a real way of checking them, but . . . I could not scratch a line in them with my finger nail . . .I'm still learning, probably will til I die . . .that is why I ask lots of questions.

I'm willing to consider having the cylinders bored out . . .

I'm wondering on the Blackhawk, if it is because of the smaller (narrower) riffling, but more of them has something to do with it . . .Once I got it started down the barrels of the SP & SS it just was a"tap, tap, tap", but the BH it was ALOT more, granted it has a longer barrel, but I was not able to drive it as far with each strike.

[IcerUSA]

Have you cast any from your mould yet ? If so , what do they mic at ? I would use any of the tumble lube boolits that mic .357 to .360 and see how they do . Might need a sizer to crimp on gas checks , if you are using plain base then you would not need a sizer .

Keith

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Have you cast any from your mould yet ? If so , what do they mic at ? I would use any of the tumble lube boolits that mic .357 to .360 and see how they do . Might need a sizer to crimp on gas checks , if you are using plain base then you would not need a sizer .

Keith


No, I have not cast any yet, but I've got a group buy hopefully coming which will be dropping them at .359, Ive heard a tad bigger is better, not sure why mine are coming out the barrel at .352 though!

No gas checks.

[6.5 mike]

Your boolits may be "sprining back". The hole in a egg sinker keeps them from doing this. If you get sinkers from wally world, make sure they are lead, not zinc. The tree huggers have got to that too.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I don't have any sinkers, and Wally World is 30 mi away in a direction I usually don't go, and I prefer to NOT patronize them anyways . . .

Last night I was talking to another church member, who was a fisherman, and he couldn't find any that were big enough, but he also was a past re-loader, and suggested I just cast some that are softer . . . I do have a bunch of jacket bullets that I surface scrounged from the range, and some I recovered from my trap, so I'm gonna smelt those down, and try to cast some, I even read that if I leave the molds open a hair that I would get "fatter" bullets that I could use for slugging . . .this is gonna be a full week, but I plan on getting to it one of these evenings . . .

On a different note, I measured the jacketed loads I recovered from my trap and they were at .355! So I think that the boolits are just too hard!

[Echo]

One point that I don't see covered is the necessity to lube the slugging effort. Shoot some WD-40, or any kind of lubricant, down the barrel, before poking the slug down. Perhaps that is the reason the slug went down the BH barrel harder. Also, occasionally the barrel has a tight spot, or two tight spots, caused by screwing into the frame, or whatever; it can be cured by fire-lapping.

[454PB]

If a boolit cast from soft lead is not large enough, just put it in a vice and squeeze it to a larger diameter.

When I'm honing out sizing dies, I slug it as work progresses. Rather than use a half dozen slugs, I just squeeze them larger after each use. This will also work for slugging barrels, but the alloy must be dead soft to eliminate the old rifling marks.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

One point that I don't see covered is the necessity to lube the slugging effort. Shoot some WD-40, or any kind of lubricant, down the barrel, before poking the slug down. Perhaps that is the reason the slug went down the BH barrel harder. Also, occasionally the barrel has a tight spot, or two tight spots, caused by screwing into the frame, or whatever; it can be cured by fire-lapping.

I never thought too lube . . . the BH was hard all the way through . . .

I have the following at my disposal:
1. Gun oil.
2. Case Lube
3. White Lable Liquid Xlox
4. Various hard boolit lubes
5. Bullplate spue lube
6. Olive Oil

I'm not excited about wd-40, what do you think of my above choices?

[BABore]

Gun oil is fine. I would avoid WD-40. I tried it for proofing a push-through sizing die and it doesn't handle the pressure too well. Tends to seize up.

[runfiverun]

gun oil or case lube should do it.

[dsmjon]

I usually use "Power Lube" simply b/c I have a case or two of it. I spray down the bbl, then generously spray down the boolit. Just don't use a wooden dowel if you do anything OTHER than push it through by hand.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Just don't use a wooden dowel if you do anything OTHER than push it through by hand.

Why?

Please explain.

[405]

Why?

Please explain.

Oh My! Just use a one piece steel or brass rod. Short ones should be easy to find (or make) for handguns. At some time you may want to slug a long gun... then use a longer one piece steel or brass rod.

This thread pretty much sums it up

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=62830&highlight=wooden+dowel

[JRW]

Why?

Please explain.

Typically brass or other metal will not break. If a dowell rod breaks, you will probably have way more trouble than bargained for. the dowels have been known to splinter and jam into the slug or between the slug and barrel. then you gots lots of issues to deal with. Hope this answers your question why not use wood. Jim.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

OK, so I didn't take all of your advise, but I did take note of the warning of the wooden dowel . . .and since that is all I had, I would hit it, and then lift to make sure it was OK.

Last night I did my 1st casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=64389 and made a few "big" ones for slugging, by leaving the mold open a hair . . .I used recovered range jacketed bullets to smelt for the lead . . . went through much easier with softer lead and gun oil.

The mold is dropping them at .35875, so I tried one of those through my SP101, and it just barely left some of the micro lube groves, and measured at .355, pictured second from left, I then pushed a "big" one through, and it still came out .355, pictured on the left.

Security Six measured also .355 pictured third from left

Blackhawk measured .356 pictured on right
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Slugging007.jpg


With this style of boolit I should just leave them as they drop at .35875 and lube them up, and load them, right?

[243winxb]

See result here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=65401 Post #117
I messed up my SP101 cylinder . . . I accidentally picked up the wrong boolit to use as a guide, and wondered why it was taking so much sanding to get it up to size . . . I knew that the SP101 throats were small, but . . . anyhow, can't change it now . . . I have one throat that is .3611! The rest look OK! The throats were fine at .358" 99% of the time, normal "SIZED" bullet of .3575" to .358" work just fine for most all 357 magunums and 38 specials.