Safety anouncment ....Please Read

[Fishreed]

Hi Guys,

This is to let you all know if you have purchased a Lee shotgun slug mold # 90282 7/8 oz since March 2009 this year ....DO NOT USE IT UNTIL YOU HAVE WEIGHED THE SLUG!!!!!!

REPEAT...WEIGH THE SLUG FOR YOU OWN PERSONAL SAFETY!

If you find the slug weighs 415-420 grains. DO NOT USE IT!. A 7/8 oz mold should weigh 383 grain or less depending on alloy content.

Lee Inc. admitted to me in an email they have shipped defective 7/8 oz slug molds that have a defective centering rings hence a 7/8 oz slug is throwing slugs weighing as a 1 oz slug would weigh. I found on the Midway site that another guy reported the same thing so it has been going on at least from March 2009 to June 2009.

I bought my mold from Cabela's in April 2009 and notified the Cabela's corporate safety people who promptly checked and found LEE has reported NO mold recall to date.

Cabelas's happily refunded my money and told me to do whatever I though I needed to do with the mold and they will contact Lee Inc.
Cabelas was EXTREMELY grateful I took the time to call them.

To say my safety has be compromised is an understatement at this time. Lee knew that mold was bad and they shipped it anyway without regards to customer safety. They didn't contact their dealers which is a VERY serious legal issue when it come to defective products in the reloading game with firearms.

I'm holding on to my defective mold because Lee replacing it with a new mold is NOT going to satisfy me.

Lee even told me I would have to wait for a new mold because they don't have any either!

I buy an unsafe defective mold then I'm told to wait till they feel like running the mold machine to make new one!!!!

Can you believe this? t
Spread the word because I sure don't wany anyone to get hurt.

[Jumping Frog]

DO NOT USE IT UNTIL YOU HAVE WEIGHED THE SLUG!!!!!!

REPEAT...WEIGH THE SLUG FOR YOU OWN PERSONAL SAFETY!
Not to excuse Lee, but I think your warning is true for every person using every mold for the first time. Whatever projectile that drops should be weighed so that you know the dropped weight.

Even with the same mold, dropped weight can vary with the melt composition (not 27 grains difference, of course!).

[largom]

I can't imagine NOT weighing a slug/boolit cast from ANY mold.

Larry

[thx997303]

Not to be rude, but since this is your first post, might I ask you to provide proof of this.

While weighing your projectiles is something most of us do normally, and is good advice, I tend to be sceptical of any sort of sensational posts made as a first.

Maybe PM me the e-mail?

Otherwise I remain unconvinced.

[Nate1778]

I agree, if your casting, your weighing, if not your going to get hurt no matter whose mold it is. A Lead bullet, a 50/50 bullet and a wheel weight bullet will all vary in weight.

This is kinda like you starting a thread on their Auto-Disk being off from the factory instructions, and then screaming your personal safety was put at risk cause you were to lazy to use a scale.

Bout the only safety announcement made in this thread is to not stand next to you at the range.

[Shiloh]

I can't imagine NOT weighing a slug/boolit cast from ANY mold.

Larry

No kidding??

One weighs powder charges dont they?? I check the weight of a few factory jacketed bullets as well before loading.

I can't imagine NOT weighing. My .45 LEE TLTC mold is listed at 230. It drops boolits at 237. Gee, I wonder how I knew this???

Shiloh

[Hurricane]

Why not just use 1 ounce slug data and use the slugs as they come from the mold?

[blackthorn]

Whoa there! Lets not jump all over Fishreed for passing on a concern. Lets keep in mind that in addition to those of us that have all kinds of experience casting there are a goodly number of folks that are new to this game and it just may be that one or two of them can benifit from the warning. I tend to be in thx997303's camp and I think that approach is the way to go, except I would like to see any reply posted so the rest of us can see. JMHO.

[thx997303]

I suggested he pm me the e-mail as if his claim is legitimate, it may be needed as evidence.

IF Lee did as he says, then it is grounds for a case against them.

Would I pursue a case? Yes

Would I ask money for damages? NO

I would likely make the only punitive actions be pay for my legal fees, and rectify the situation immediately.

Of course, I am not convinced there could be any sort of suit filed, nor am I convinced that Fishreed could file a suit lacking any actual damages.

Of course, I am not a lawyer.

[Nate1778]

Whoa there! Lets not jump all over Fishreed for passing on a concern. Lets keep in mind that in addition to those of us that have all kinds of experience casting there are a goodly number of folks that are new to this game and it just may be that one or two of them can benifit from the warning. I tend to be in thx997303's camp and I think that approach is the way to go, except I would like to see any reply posted so the rest of us can see. JMHO.




Although I do agree, this is bashing, not concern or civilized complaint. Many starting out reloading self cast slugs have an uphill battle as it is, more than likely they'll grenade the gun anyway. Most whom are casting there own bullets and slugs have pretty much gotten the reloading thing down and already know the importance of weighing components.

Also if one is to bash any company and states communications with said company, one should post that communication to add validity to the complaint. Otherwise your simply trolling and quickly get the responses that are appearing in this thread.

[waksupi]

Most that have been casting for very long, are well aware that the advertised weight of a boolit, is very seldom the true weight of the projectile. As has been stated, it is the responsibility of the end user to weigh their projectile, and develop loads from that point.
I see no legitimate action against Lee. Learn the game, and pay attention to what you are doing. I wouldn't want to be near you on a range, either.

[Fishreed]

I have sent the Lee email to the guy who requested it.

I am not trolling . I have the defective mold in my left hand and if this is the first time Lee found out about this defective mold, I will kiss your hinny in front of the Lincoln Memorial,

IF it took LEE nearly six months to find out they had defective mold, then LEE HAS NO QUALITY CONTROL SYSTEM to guiarantee cusaromer safety and the Quality Manager needs to join the ranks of the unemployed.

IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY GUYS.

[WILCO]

IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY GUYS.

I hate that type of jibberish talk. It's called capitalism and money makes the world go round. I take issue with his original post and shall disregard him as a troll......

[klcarroll]

@Fishreed;

I believe that you posted in the interest of general safety: ......Which is ALWAYS a good thing! …….I give you a big "Thumbs-Up" for that!

The others who posted the point of view that ALL component variables should be checked are, of course, also 100% correct. ALWAYS check charge and projectile weights!! (I once got a box of "Name Brand" jacketed bullets (ugghh!) that were mislabeled!)

I will add only one personal comment here:

In my almost six decades on this planet, I have survived a divorce, a bankruptcy, and a $1,000,000 civil suit: ......The net result is that I passionately, ardently, ….almost rabidly despise lawyers!!

I would NEVER involve a bloodsucker in this sort of thing! ....All they will do is take most of the money, and further weaken an industry that we all desperately want to see grow stronger.

I really miss "the old days", ...when a good old-fashioned punch in the nose could be relied on to resolve a problem between men! (.....And it wasn't followed up by 15 years of litigation!)

Kent

[SharpsShooter]

Hold the wagon! You haven't won the lottery. In fact I'd interested what damages you might claim. Mental anguish? Lose of spousal intimacy? What?

They did not cause you harm or monetary damages other than the cost of the mould which I suspect they would replace happily. By purchasing their mould and following their warnings enclosed with the mould which states clearly that YOU are responsible for the safety of your loads and you are responsible for knowledgable and safe usage of data


SS

[Fishreed]

Most that have been casting for very long, are well aware that the advertised weight of a boolit, is very seldom the true weight of the projectile. As has been stated, it is the responsibility of the end user to weigh their projectile, and develop loads from that point.
I see no legitimate action against Lee. Learn the game, and pay attention to what you are doing. I wouldn't want to be near you on a range, either.


Well, I have a brother who is an attorney and since you are NOT, EVERY defective and possibly dangerous product you make to be consumed by the public..HAS A LAWYER ATTACHED TO IT. It's not the point that nobody got hurt (so far) with this admittingly defective product. The point is it has been made and shipped defective for nearly six months and I was one of the "little people" first to report it to Lee.

Trust me, I go to thousands of corporate industrial manufacturers and they are constantly checking, re-checking, and auditing the specifications of their products going out the door to maintain strict quality and even more so when you deal with critical life threatening parts.

What to know how much testing and re-testing goes into the four things on your vehicle called tires?

I was involved in a quality and safety audirt an couple eyars ago with a Tier 1 automotive supplier with a defective corrosion problem in an automotive tie rod end that cost somebody 27 million bucks because the testing wasn't done in accordance with ASTM procedure and the shipped and installed parts failed prematurely. Nobody got hurt because the part was recalled on the vehicles they were installed were replaced with the correct parts made to SPECIFICATIONS.



Would anybody like to know what kind of quality requirements the folks in the aerospace industry have to go through when you start making parts for aircraft?

You even have to keep the test samples stored for 3-7 years depending on legal requirments.

How about the audit procedure for a "safety" part like an automotive seat belt component or critical anchoring bolt?

[Heavy lead]

Judist Priest! Not here. WTBH!
Ok guys I've got a .452300 round flat Lee, guess I hit the lottery, the damn thing casts .454 and weighs upward to 331, guess I hit the mother load, I'm going to sue. Course since I actually have some brain matter in my skul I've managed to shoot this boolit very safely and very well, and actually much prefer it to an undersized ***.

Holy crap dude, grow up and take some responsibility, if you got no or little response from Lee on this, I'm sure it's because of your approach. This is NOT a dangerous situation if you know what you are doing reloading and have proper tools and techniques.


I do not know whether you are truly trying to be a good doobie and bring something to our attention that needs to be, it is in fact helpfull to know if it is overweight, as would the diameter and other pertinant data about the slug it casts. In reality there is absolutely no liability issue here at all, as Lee has no control over how much or what is casted into the mould. It is in fact the responsibility of all handloaders/casters to verify everything, then verify again, including making sure the barrel is clear of obstructions. It is simply ludacris to incinuate this would be their issue. Stop trying to raise the price of their moulds by yelling the sky is falling.
And you are doing all this bantering with a mould you recieved a refund on so never paid for. I'm sure there are a lot of MEC 1oz. charge bars out there that throw a lot heavier weight of #8 shot and it is the handloaders responsiblility to verify it. Period.

Last thing we need to do is turn this into a damn lawyer site.

[Heavy lead]

Most that have been casting for very long, are well aware that the advertised weight of a boolit, is very seldom the true weight of the projectile. As has been stated, it is the responsibility of the end user to weigh their projectile, and develop loads from that point.
I see no legitimate action against Lee. Learn the game, and pay attention to what you are doing. I wouldn't want to be near you on a range, either.


Well, I have a brother who is an attorney and since you are NOT, EVERY defective and possibly dangerous product you make to be consumed by the public..HAS A LAWYER ATTACHED TO IT. It's not the point that nobody got hurt (so far) with this admittingly defective product. The point is it has been made and shipped defective for nearly six months and I was one of the "little people" first to report it to Lee.

Trust me, I go to thousands of corporate industrial manufacturers and they are constantly checking, re-checking, and auditing the specifications of their products going out the door to maintain strict quality and even more so when you deal with critical life threatening parts.

What to know how much testing and re-testing goes into the four things on your vehicle called tires?

I was involved in a quality and safety audirt an couple eyars ago with a Tier 1 automotive supplier with a defective corrosion problem in an automotive tie rod end that cost somebody 27 million bucks because the testing wasn't done in accordance with ASTM procedure and the shipped and installed parts failed prematurely. Nobody got hurt because the part was recalled on the vehicles they were installed were replaced with the correct parts made to SPECIFICATIONS.



Would anybody like to know what kind of quality requirements the folks in the aerospace industry have to go through when you start making parts for aircraft?

You even have to keep the test samples stored for 3-7 years depending on legal requirments.

How about the audit procedure for a "safety" part like an automotive seat belt component or critical anchoring bolt?



This above and YOU are ridiculous.
We need less of you people in this country not more BS.

[Fishreed]

They did not cause you harm or monetary damages other than the cost of the mould which I suspect they would replace happily. By purchasing their mould and following their warnings enclosed with the mould which states clearly that YOU are responsible for the safety of your loads and you are responsible for knowledgable and safe usage of data


Sorry but your are WRONG. Stated safety disclaimers are used for one thing and one thing only. To scare off good people like you who don't understand how the Uniform Commericial Code in a court of law works.

You can't put on a safety disclaimer and expect to be legally shielded from any and all product liability lawsuits from known OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN defect in a product that has been going on for nearly 6 months.

I had a year of law school before I didn't have enough money to finish and went into Business adminstration and accounting.

I will give you an example. You go to a car wash and a sign says "we are not repsonsible for our equipmenet damaging your vehicle". That signs scares away all the folks who don't know how the law works.

I just read the product paper that came with my mold.
That disclaimer is so lame a dead attorney could rip it to shreads.

The question you should be asking is did Lee use ordinary and proper quality testing methods to detect defective molds being sold to the general public under Lee's statement of box specificationsWHICH STATeE THIS IS A 7/8 OZ mold?

NO


IF it took me to inform them of a defect after 6 months the answer would be NO.
Even though I wasn't harmed, was my safety compromised by Lee's poor quality system. YES

Under the current legal sysyem I have damages more than the replacement value of the mold. I might add too according to a Lee email recieved this morning, THEY AREN'T GOING TO REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE MOLD BUT ONLY SEND ME A NEW PART SO I CAN FIX THE SOB MYSELF.

GAWD THIS PIZZES ME OFF WITH THIS CORPORATE ARROGANCE!!!!!

I have to fix the mold myself....WHAT A KICK IN THE TEETH!

[Nate1778]

Well, I have a brother who is an attorney and since you are NOT,




Good, then maybe he can tell you absolutely stupid this is.

[462]

Fishreed,

Posting Lee's e-mail reply would certainly add creedence to your post.

Till then, I can only say, what ever happened to the concept of personal responsibility? "Oh, darn, I just spilled some hot McDonald's coffee in my lap. I'm going to sue." People looking for a fast and easy buck, ambulance chasing lawyers and stupid jurors have replaced common sense and personal responsibility.

Seems we were typing at the same time. After reading your last reply, it all makes sense. You ARE looking for the fast and easy buck. You are a drain on society.

[Heavy lead]

Oh brother.

WWWD

(what would Waksupi do?)

Deleted my post. Never gonna talk sense into this one.

[Fishreed]

Yup...it sure is stupid when you get your safety compromised by bad product then you get told to fix the SOB mold yourself. The guy who requested the EMAIL hasPMed me and read it and agrees ....LEE shipped many bad molds before they found out and it came from ME!!!!

My brother has always said the best lawsuit you can get is the one that was prevented from happening.

Since I am being castigated as the bad guy here, what is Lee 's corporate responsibility here for providing me with a quality and safe mold checked by a verifiable quality system?

I did my due diligence and quality checking and found the mold to be defective, but I also found it has been going on for nearly 6 months.

DUH?????.....Do you think the end user deserves a better quality system than that?

Why do I have to Fix the SOB mold myself? If your car or truck had a recall on a bad part , would you by happy if the manaufacturer said, "HERE' the part NOW go fix it yourself"?????

Would you like to ride in an airplane with parts made by Lee's quality system ?

You guys would be lining up to find an attorney to defend your safety rights in a NEw York minute.

Now I'm the bad guy, because I'm complaining about a poorly made part I had to notify them about a defect then I'm told to fix the SOB myself????????

Gee, as a Field engineer in the materials testing field where my company's $11,000 to $200,000 testing machines test Rockwell, Brinell and tensile strength, I think some guy here are really testing my patience.

[Nate1778]

I think some guy here are really testing my patience.




:violin:


Good luck on your suit. May you get all you deserve...........

[thx997303]

This is not something I normally engage in, but since you remain hostile to the other members on the site, here it is, the pm I received from FISH.

Mr. FISH,

Thanks for the heads-up, we were just recently made aware of the problem from another source. We have pulled all of the 7/8 oz. slug molds from our inventory. The cause was in the core pin - the rib that forms the drive key was cut too wide. If you forward your snail mail address I can send a replacement core pin as soon as one becomes available.

At 10:46 AM 9/17/2009, you wrote:

Dear Sirs,

Gee, it is a good thing I called to get this straightened out? I wouldn't want to be the guy who might have used a 7/8 oz mold and unknowingly put a 1 oz slug over a powder recipe intended for a 7/8 oz load recipe.


Maybe you should call up Cabela's and your other customers and inform them of the fact that some of their customers might have purchased a LEE 7/8 oz mold that which by a manufacturing screw-up is throwing 1 oz slugs. THIS IS A HUGE LEGAL LIABILITY AS I SEE IT.



FISH





In a message dated 9/17/2009 10:12:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info@leeprecision.com writes:
Mr. FISHREED,
The core pin on some of our 7/8 slug molds was made with the rib through the base too thick, and the result was the slug weighed too much. If you return the mold to the factory, we will replace it will one of the correct weight as soon as they are available. Our address is:
Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway "U"
Hartford, WI 53027
Please also include a copy of this transmission, so the shipping dept. knows what the mold was returned for.
At 03:47 PM 9/15/2009, you wrote:
Dear Sirs,

I recently purchased 2 shot gun slug mold from one of your dealers, 90281- 1oz, and 90282 7/8 oz.

I have poured at least 20 slugs from EACH mold and all the slug weights from both molds average in grains range from 413 grains to 421 grains.

Shouldn't the 7/8ths oz mold being throwing slugs less that 400 grains maybe in the 382.5 grains or less depending on lead content?

According to grains to oz conversions 437.5 = 1oz and 382.8= 7/8

I can believe a 1 oz. mold throwing a 420 grain slug because of a difference in lead content, but I can't believe a 7/8ths mold throwing a 415 grain slug with the same lead alloy.

Could this 7/8s oz Lee slug mold marked 90282 be a mismarked 1 oz mold?

I can't believe 2 different slug mold being 1/8 ths ounces difference would be only average 413 to 421 in difference in grains.

Do I have a mismarked 7/8s slug mold because it sure is well over 7/8 ounce.


Fishreed



HERE is THE LEE EMAIL....now what do I get?

[Fishreed]

Yup....I'm a drain on society alright. I'm just a leacherous mean old SOB who should take some personal responsibility and admit it IS ALL MY FAULT BECAUSE LEE MADE A DEFECTIVE AND DANGEROUS MOLD AND DIDN'T TELL ANYONE UNTILL I NOTIFIED THEM 6 MONTHS LATER. I bet you guys said that about The Wall Street Bankers Too?

I guess I should plan on Fixing the mold myself because my consumer rights are of not much worth as compared to Lee"s rights?

I get bad and tainted dog food and it kills my field champion dog and I'm suppose to suck it up because I should have tested the dog food myself ? I'm guilty, its all my fault.


I get a tooth drilled through and the drill damages another good tooth and I am just a drain on society. I should have known better?

A dead doctor friend of mine drives down the express way in a jeep and a a tire comes off because somebody didn't tighten the lug nuts after his new tires were installed and his family should just suck it up because he should have checked the lugs himself?
No it's his fault because was a jeep?

My wife uses hair coloring and has a hair dressor use a known bad batch under recall and it scalds her scalp ...BUT SHE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER and taken some personal responsibility SO SHE SHOULD JUST SUCK IT UP?


Gee, no wonder why the liberal socialists have labeled the gun people as somewhat weird?
They hate attorneys because all bad things are the user's fault because the user should have taken some personal responsibility.

The guy who requested my Lee email has read it. Go ask him what it said.


So let me get this straight, If I don't kiss the hinies of the folks here, I am the bad guy when I find a case of CORPORATE ARROGANCE?

Do I have to ask permission here to be critical of Lee's quality system ?

[cbrick]

The net result is that I passionately, ardently, ….almost rabidly despise lawyers!!

I would NEVER involve a bloodsucker in this sort of thing! ....All they will do is take most of the money, and further weaken an industry that we all desperately want to see grow stronger. Kent


Very well http://www.lasc.us/TSO_avatar_31657.gif said klcarroll!

Fishreed, when you hit the lottery suing Lee remember it is not Lee giving you something for nothing . . . It's Lee's customers (that would be ALL the rest of us) when they are forced to raise their prices to pay off ambulance chasers and others that falsley think the world owes them a free and easy living.

Rick

[Nate1778]

So they offered to replace it or send you a new key, and the problem is? You brought it to there attention and they are willing to fix it and your upset. Am I missing something here, were you hurt, has your scalp been damaged or your car crashed? So your court case is going to go something like this. You claim negligence on a $30 mold, and the company offered to make it right with you. As the courtroom is laughing what is the next step?

[Heavy lead]

Yup....I'm a drain on society alright. I'm just a leacherous mean old SOB who should take some personal responsibility and admit it IS ALL MY FAULT BECAUSE LEE MADE A DEFECTIVE AND DANGEROUS MOLD AND DIDN'T TELL ANYONE UNTILL I NOTIFIED THEM 6 MONTHS LATER. I bet you guys said that about The Wall Street Bankers Too?

I guess I should plan on Fixing the mold myself because my consumer rights are of not much worth as compared to Lee"s rights?

I get bad and tainted dog food and it kills my field champion dog and I'm suppose to suck it up because I should have tested the dog food myself ? I'm guilty, its all my fault.


I get a tooth drilled through and the drill damages another good tooth and I am just a drain on society. I should have known better?

A dead doctor friend of mine drives down the express way in a jeep and a a tire comes off because somebody didn't tighten the lug nuts after his new tires were installed and his family should just suck it up because he should have checked the lugs himself?
No it's his fault because was a jeep?

My wife uses hair coloring and has a hair dressor use a known bad batch under recall and it scalds her scalp ...BUT SHE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER and taken some personal responsibility SO SHE SHOULD JUST SUCK IT UP?


Gee, no wonder why the liberal socialists have labeled the gun people as somewhat weird?
They hate attorneys because all bad things are the user's fault because the user should have taken some personal responsibility.

The guy who requested my Lee email has read it. Go ask him what it said.


So let me get this straight, If I don't kiss the hinies of the folks here, I am the bad guy when I find a case of CORPORATE ARROGANCE?

Do I have to ask permission here to be critical of Lee's quality system ?

You can be critical all you want, just don't be this underwelmingly brilliant and expect accolades for it.

[cbrick]

I don't know about your dead doctor friend but I am smart enough to know that something is terribly amiss with a tire loose enough to come off long, long before I get to an expressway on-ramp. I could even possibly be smart enough to pull over long before the car crashes.

None of your comparisons are remotely based in reality as compared to how horribly your life was permanently altered and ruined with no hope of returning to normalcy by the purchase of this mould.

By your own admission Lee offered to replace the mould, this is not the situation you have spent your life looking for. You’ll need to keep looking for your riches, no doubt you’ll come across someone that will make your brother and yourself as rich as you feel you both should be.

Rick

[Fishreed]

Lee is offering me a kick in the teeth and I have to provide the foot and the boot. I Iwouldn't treat a starving dog the way Lee is treating me as a good buyer of Lee products.

In my business I give away free product like candy in cases like this where companies give me good ideas where I could be doing something more effiecient.

This is a classic textbook lesson in POOR customer service. It is no wonder why foreign car companies are eating GM and Chrysler's lunch in the product marklet place.

Bad product and the ability to treat your customer like it is his fault for their screw-up will provide a well worn path to bankrupcy every single time.

[Nate1778]

Dude, Lee offered to send you a new key free of charge to a mold you got refunded on by Cabelas. Kick in the teeth, your insane. You just got a free mold, whose kicking who? I do understand that the intelligence level were working with here, that changing a key out can be quite difficult. Find a local 5 year old and he/she can do it for you. Sounds like its about nap time in your world.

[bohica2xo]

So let me get this straight.

Lee made a 1 ounce mould, and mis-labeled it.

Cabellas GAVE it to you for free.

Lee offered to replace it if you return it, or send you the parts to make it right.

And you are STILL butt-hurt about it? What a jerk. I hope I get to sit on your jury.

Recently I returned a Craftsman ratchet to Sears. The guy gave me a little baggie with a repair kit in it, told me to have a nice day. I guess I should sue Sears, because I MIGHT mis-install the parts and break a knuckle... LOL

B.

[Hardcast416taylor]

fishreed. WOW!!! You attended a WHOLE year of law school!!! I went 3 years into being a head "shrink", but ended up as a plumber, before finances ran out. That doesn`t make me a shrink nor you a product lawyer. You have not said what lead alloy you were using anyway, some alloys weigh in at more than others.:groner:Robert

[Heavy lead]

Good thing you never went to seminary.

[SharpsShooter]

Under the current legal sysyem I have damages more than the replacement value of the mold. I might add too according to a Lee email recieved this morning, THEY AREN'T GOING TO REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE MOLD BUT ONLY SEND ME A NEW PART SO I CAN FIX THE SOB MYSELF.

GAWD THIS PIZZES ME OFF WITH THIS CORPORATE ARROGANCE!!!!!

I have to fix the mold myself....WHAT A KICK IN THE TEETH!

Ok.........what damages can you claim?? Replacement value......sure. Shipping costs......sure.

Damages are monetary compensation(S) that are awarded by a court in a civil action to an individual who has been injured through the wrongful conduct of another party.

Damages attempt to measure in financial terms the extent of harm a plaintiff has suffered because of a defendant's actions. Damages are distinguishable from costs, which are the expenses incurred as a result of bringing a lawsuit and which the court may order the losing party to pay. Damages also differ from the verdict, which is the final decision issued by a jury.

The purpose of damages is to restore an injured party to the position the party was in before being harmed. As a result, damages are generally regarded as remedial rather than preventive or punitive. However, Punitive Damages may be awarded for particular types of wrongful conduct. Before an individual can recover damages, the injury suffered must be one recognized by law as warranting redress, and must have actually been sustained by the individual.

:groner:

Gee....... looks like you are really going to have to hurt yourself before your gravy train comes in.

BTW that slug is for this gun.

http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/?action=view&current=BigShotgun.flv



SS

[Bloodman14]

May I suggest that the Moderators remove Fishreed from the forum?

[Heavy lead]

May I suggest that the Moderators remove Fishreed from the forum?

He'll sue cast boolits next. Don't let him in a group buy.

[WILCO]

May I suggest that the Moderators remove Fishreed from the forum?

Yeah, what he said! Nothing but a troll anyway.............

[qajaq59]

If you wish to sue.... Swell, go right ahead.

PS, I wont need any more info about it.

[cbrick]

It's your desire to gain monetarily over something as petty as this that so many here have condemned you.

I have an ongoing dispute with Redding refusing to honor their written warranty that involves far more money than your mould. It never occurred to me to bring in the parasites and sue them. It was never my intent to gain financially over this dispute. What I have and continue to do is warn as many as possible of the quality I received from Redding and their refusal to honor their own warranty or make the situation right. Will I put Redding out of business? Hardly, that would be a ridiculous thought but I know for fact that I have gotten into their pockets by costing them many, many sales and I will continue to do so. I have taught handloading to many people and they all get a lesson on Redding customer care, most of them will go through life passing on this warning. But sue them? Get a life Fishreed, the world does not owe you a living.

Rick

[Fishreed]

May I suggest that the Moderators remove Fishreed from the forum?
__________________
Lead Forever!

Is this way this website works? You don't like a guy's opinion about a company which put out defective products so you ban him from your website because you don't have any legal knowledge?

How do you spell Seig Heil?




Go ahead, ban me. Then you won't find out how this all turned out will you? That's what they did in 1939 Germany too when they didn't like another person's opinion too. Except they used K98s, gas and PO8 Lugers.

I looked in the terms of service and nowhere did it say I had to have opinion's that kow-towed to the majority.

Correct me if I wrong?

I just got off the phone with a WI attorney and I have a case. I can sue for all my expenses including travel and punitive expenses for failure of Lee to notify their dealer's of a health and safety issue on their products. I don't have to "get my face blown off" to have a product liability case. the meer fact I was exposed to a dangerous product of Lee's making make my case legally valid.

As I said to a PM guy. I bet Lee starts checking their molds more than once every 6 months?


I can even do it on my own without hiring an attorney since I've been to court many times while collecting money from rip off artists.

Darn, I forgot to ask what is the maximum limit I can get without going to circuit court.

I'm looking at this defective mold as we speak and it has a rivet that will have to be drilled out. I don't have tool to reset the rivet like the factory one, so I'm sure as heck am not going to play mold repairman when Lee should just replace the whole GD mold.

Sorry I pizzed you Lee Lovers off. Not one person has said what my consumer right's are over Lee rights?

I guess until I get my face blown off, Lee walks on WI holy water.

One thing is for sure, I'm being treated like a *** by me having to repair this ****.

[Heavy lead]

May I suggest that the Moderators remove Fishreed from the forum?
__________________
Lead Forever!

Is this way this website works? You don't like a guy's opinion about a company which put out defective products so you ban him from your website because you don't have any legal knowledge?

How do you spell Seig Heil?




Go ahead, ban me. Then you won't find out how this all turned out will you? That's what they did in 1939 Germany too when they didn't like another person's opinion too. Except they used K98s, gas and PO8 Lugers.

I looked in the terms of service and nowhere did it say I had to have opinion's that kow-towed to the majority.

Correct me if I wrong?

I just got off the phone with a WI attorney and I have a case. I can sue for all my expenses including travel and punitive expenses for failure of Lee to notify their dealer's of a health and safety issue on their products. I don't have to "get my face blown off" to have a product liability case. the meer fact I was exposed to a dangerous product of Lee's making make my case legally valid.

As I said to a PM guy. I bet Lee starts checking their molds more than once every 6 months?


I can even do it on my own without hiring an attorney since I've been to court many times while collecting money from rip off artists.

Darn, I forgot to ask what is the maximum limit I can get without going to circuit court.

I'm looking at this defective mold as we speak and it has a rivet that will have to be drilled out. I don't have tool to reset the rivet like the factory one, so I'm sure as heck am not going to play mold repairman when Lee should just replace the whole GD mold.

Sorry I pizzed you Lee Lovers off. Not one person has said what my consumer right's are over Lee rights?

I guess until I get my face blown off, Lee walks on WI holy water.

One thing is for sure, I'm being treated like a *** by me having to repair this ****.

I'm no Lee lover, thanks for saving us all. Why don't you run for office? I'm just sure you'll get elected. Thanks for being such an advocate. Down right like Ralph Nader.:killingpc

[klcarroll]

OK! OK! .............Everyone take a deep, deep breath and calm down!!!

So "Fishreed" posted on what he perceived to be a safety issue: .......That's good!

.....But he seems to have some unrealistic ideas about what sort of compensation he is due: ....Maybe that's not so good.


That's still no reason to treat him the way my ex-wife treated me!!! (LOL!)

I moderate on an unrelated forum: .....And while I certainly don't want to "Armchair Quaterback" the Forum Moderators here; ....I will go as far as to suggest that maybe it's time to lock this thread and let everybody cool down!

(Sorry guys!! ....I'm really not trying to tell you how to do your job; ....Because I realize that every forum is different!)

Kent


..

[Nate1778]

M
for failure of Lee to notify their dealer's of a health and safety issue on their products.





Ummm what makes you think they haven't. Just cause they didn't disclose it in your e-mail doesn't mean they haven't. Hell maybe Cabelas new about it and then dealt with you, and in a matter of poor judgment sold it to you in hopes you didn't know how to use a scale and the law of "natural selection" would reign supreme. You don't work at Lee or any of their distributors do you, have you checked with them.

You have way to much time on your hands. I seriously would spend the money to drag your behind through courtroom after courtroom, then send you a Christmas card thanking you for your buisness.

[cbrick]

I can even do it on my own without hiring an attorney since I've been to court many times while collecting money from rip off artists. From a previous post -
IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY GUYS.

See how right everyone here is? . . . No, I guess you wouldn't huh, the world owes you and by god your gonna get yours regardless of how much anyone else is hurt!

Rick


I just got off the phone with a WI attorney and I have a case.

Really? You found an ambulance chaser willing to sue somebody? Congratulations, that's a real find.

Rick


Sorry I pizzed you Lee Lovers off.

As I told you in the PM, I am not a Lee lover and I don't buy Lee moulds, I am not sticking up for Lee . . . I am speaking out against the parasite class. You know who I mean don't you Fishreed, the ones that say . . . I've been to court many times while collecting money from rip off artists. Might I suggest that you make at least a feeble attempt at being a man?

Rick

[fishhawk]

it is getting real close to a lock down. all this back and forth is actualy helping no one. steve k

[Nate1778]

it is getting real close to a lock down. all this back and forth is actualy helping no one. steve k

No, but it is amusing.


Its just hard to beleive there are people in this world like this, and that it is legal for them to procreate.

[qajaq59]

Originally Posted by Fishreed
I can even do it on my own without hiring an attorney since I've been to court many times while collecting money from rip off artists.


Duh.... Now who would have guessed that?

[Bloodman14]

This is why I suggested that Fishreed be removed; he is out of line(to an extent), out of order, out of his element and should probably be out of this hobby/craft. I was afraid this would get out of hand.
How dare you compare us to Hitler, Fishreed.

[waksupi]

Gonna be a tough case, when the expert witnesses would have to come from this forum.

Ever considered macrame?

[Hardcast416taylor]

Fishreed, Why is it I come up with the comparison of you to Chicken Little with a liberal splash of Michael Moore thrown in on your caterwauling and chest beating diatribe over nothing?Robert

[Storydude]

Fishreed....Guess I should be dead 1563 times over huh?

Seeing as I use 7/8 load data with a 1Oz slug.

21G unique over a 1 Oz lee slug.
Up to 24G unique.

Both well within 1Oz loadings, both perfectly safe.

Good luck trying your "Lawsuit" I"ll be searching Wisconson court data awaiting your case.

[JRW]

Maybe this feller should be playing with soft rubber blocks in the little padded room?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Steve, Ric, SOMEONE please shut this down. This thread is just wasting bandwith (not really sure if I know exactly what bandwith really is, but it sure does sound like I know what I am talking about!).

[fishhawk]

thread actualy has run it course. just bashing each other now. steve k

[fishhawk]

manleyjt
Boolit Master



Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,515

locked thread on slug mould
Fishhawk,

could you post the link to LASC about difference in weight for different lead alloys?

You can post this message if you like.

I was in the process of posting it when locked down. I think it is improtant that there be some support in the weight addition when dealing with pure lead. I was going to ask/ try to post info for others interested in the implication of varying your alloy.

I think both sides have their merits and only want to add that variation can and does occure and the referenced wieght difference is very close to what was seen with a 400 grain slug cast of lino and pure lead, actually a difference of 35.8 gain.

No bashing was intended from my part just some info to a new member.

The reference is lower on the following page.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm