Bullseye vs Unique?

[ilcop22]

G'evening.

Another lazy Sunday, another opinion question.

I've been loading my .45acp 230gr boolit loads with 4gr of Bullseye for a while now. The accuracy is quite good.

Anyway, I've seen a lot about Unique powder lately, which brings me to my question: Which do you prefer in your auto loads?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

For light loads Bullseye is a great choice for the 45auto and many other popular calibers in my opinion. However for the 200gr loads and up in my 45autos I have always returned to Unique. Is it the cleanest? No but every place has it, it is cheap, will work for all of my handgun rounds, several of my shotgun loads, and a handful of rifle loads. Unique is still one of the most accurate powders I have used in my 45auto loads. I have found that as long as the loads are moderate to heavy Unique really is not all that dirty especially with thin 45auto brass.

P.S. No offense, but at 25yards I don’t think Bullseye is to blame.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Well, Bullseye is a mighty sooty powder. Even though it's really economical, I just didn't care for how black it made my brass and pistol. 3.5gr Bullseye behind a 200gr SWC has been a favorite of bullseye shooters for many years; long before my time.

Unique has a lot of uses, both pistol and rifle. One of the most versatile powders out there. The old stuff is still pretty sooty though. I understand that Alliant has changed the manufacturing process a couple of times over the last few years to make it cleaner, and a few on here have confirmed that the new stuff is cleaner. However, I'm still on what's left of an older batch.

I started using some IMR Hi-Skor 700x, playing with working up an IDPA load. 4.8gr behind 200gr SWC's seems to be pretty decent; lots cleaner than Bullseye, but could be cleaner yet. It's roughly in the same ballpark as Bullseye for burn speed. Maybe a little harder to meter. It had been a long time since I made a trip to the range and was with a buddy, so I didn't bother trying to check for group sizes or the like.

A number of target shooters like Hodgdon's Clays; another fast powder similar to Bullseye in burn rate, but reportedly very clean.

Haven't thought much about working up hotter loads, but if I were, I'd be tempted to give the new Unique and Hi-Skor 800x a try.

[ilcop22]

P.S. No offense, but at 25yards I don’t think Bullseye is to blame.

You'll have to elaborate on that...

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You'll have to elaborate on that...

What I meant was it might be the Indian not the arrows

I have had loads that shoot great at 15yards, then I back up to 35 or 50yards to see how accurate they really are and the group is about 3feet. My son then comes and with the same load shoots a 2 or 3inch group at 50yards. He then laughs and hands the gun back and says, “the load seems fine to me.”

[Char-Gar]

"Combat Range" tell nothing about the accuracy of a load.

Bullseye is a fine powder for the 45 ACP. Millions and millions of rounds have been loaded for the military with 4.6 grains of BE over a 230 grain RN jacketed bullet.

Unique though slower also works well in the 45 ACP. If you are having accuracy problems at 25 yards, a switch to Unique will not solve your problems. You can put together loads of BE that will drive tacks at 25 yards. Well, it does take an exceptional pistol and shooter to do it.

[ilcop22]

What I meant was it might be the Indian not the arrows

Just as a rule, if you preface a statement with "No offense, but..." your intent is to offend someone.

Anyway, back to the topic...

[canyon-ghost]

Here's a 5X9 card, 3.2 grains of Bullseye for 50 meters in a 9mm Lyman Devastator. It's not a perfect load, not done yet. This is with a TC Contender and 10" barrel from sandbags.

[shotman]

the major difference is the powder measure used . Both are good powders but unique is a flake and sometimes with some powder measures it is a problem on the small charges to keep uniform. I like it but found that .05 grain difference is common. BE and titegroup meter uniform as does other ball type powders
canyon slug your barrel bet the boolit is too small

[ilcop22]

Here's a 5X9 card, 3.2 grains of Bullseye for 50 meters in a 9mm Lyman Devastator. It's not a perfect load, not done yet. This is with a TC Contender and 10" barrel from sandbags.

Definitely looking good!

I shoot off-hand only with pistol, so I don't work my loads for that distance. But, it sticks to the BE claim of being a great target load.

[.357]

unique i've never used bullseye. I just like Unique since i can use it for everything!

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

I'm no great pistol shooter. If I'm firing "hot" military ball loads for very long, I'll develop a nasty flinch that's tough to get rid of. The 700x load I mentioned before is just 2/10 gr above suggested starting grains, so it's pretty mild.

My Dad would occasionally tell me when I was growing up that 1911's are tough to shoot accurately, and I took that as gospel at the time.

I'm a lot older, wobblier and more near-sighted than ever. I'm not very accurate with a M1911 using just one hand, even at 20 yards.

But if I use a two-handed stance with a good footing, and make darn sure I have good sight alignment and sight picture, I can do OK. A few summers ago, I was visiting friends who had a range on their property. I'd taken my 1917 Colt M1911 along; it still has the original barrel, and is just as it was when retired from the Army as "unserviceable" in 1963. Using military ball ammo, I still managed to hit a 4"x15" redneck wind chime 5 out of 7 times from 90 yards. Not stellar, but not half bad for no range time in the preceding year or so.

I found that after shooting awhile with the narrow-notch tiny-blade GI-spec m1911 sights, the target sights on my '39 Government Model look HUGE! Much easier to get good sight alignment, too.

I just need to get more serious about practicing with these cast rounds I've been loading up.

[GSM]

For 45 200 gr loads around 4.3 gr of Win Supertarget (50 yard load).
For 45 180 gr loads around 4.0 gr of WST (25 yard load).

For 38 148, around 2.8 of Bullseye.

All on 1911 platform.

[canyon-ghost]

I'm not going to say that Bullseye or Unique is better but, the new manual shows a load for 231 @ 4.0 to 5.8 grains in the weight bullet you're shooting. The most accurate, however, is the 5.8 grains, kicking it to a maximum load. There's so much data on the list that there must be 10 different powders for every weight bullet. The 45acp really goes back that far.
For me, it will be a switch to N340 with a regualar target bullet to bring this nine around. The Lyman Devastator is neat, a decent defense round but, it's bevel based and not real dependable for distance.

That's what I found out anyway, it will go 50 meters on Bullseye just slicker than a button. Oh, by the way, this is with open sights, TC adjustables but, still no scope.

[ilcop22]

Canyon-ghost,

That's good info to have. My Lee reloading book (the only one I currently have with cast data) gives a min/max of 4.0 with BE. The shot does feel pretty light - what I describe as "powdery" - so I may give a small adjustment. I'm also not married to BE powder, its just the one most readily available at my local store.

All my 45 cast loads are shot from my duty pistol - Springfield XD 45 4" service model. My 1911 has been in pieces on my bench for months, so that hasn't seen any cast. I intend to use it for accuracy checks and hopefully switch over to it as my duty piece when I finish working on it.

[Bill*]

the major difference is the powder measure used . Both are good powders but unique is a flake and sometimes with some powder measures it is a problem on the small charges to keep uniform. I like it but found that .05 grain difference is common. BE and titegroup meter uniform as does other ball type powders
canyon slug your barrel bet the boolit is too small

Do you really load to .05 grain? My cheap scale only goes to .1 and I'm not sure of that because sometimes I watch it "hunt" I.E. vary up and down by a .1 while sitting untouched

[No_1]

I have tried both in the ACP. Started with BE followed by 700x, switched to Tite-Group then to Unique. I think they all have their place and with the right combination each may provide the best group but at this point in my life Unique is always my go-to powder for everything.

Over the years I have picked up 1lb cans of different powders (20+ different powders on hand:veryconfu) for testing purposes. When I find a powder that works especially well I get 8lb "jugs" of it. Currently I do not have any jugs of BE but I do have jugs of Unique (with some Russian Salute on the way).

Now If I could only have 1 powder I would have to choose Unique since I can use it in anything from my smallest pistol cartridges to my largest rifle cartridges knowing that Unique can get the job done.

Robert

Ps. I am also rather fond of surplus powders.

[canyon-ghost]

The bullet is oversized okay, it's a velocity issue on this load. What I've done is take a moderately hard bullet(wheelweight) and push it to the velocity of jacketed. When you do that, you get leading caused by exceeding the twist rate.
In other words, the bullet is being pushed down the bore faster that it's rotational speed causing the rifling to slice off the sides of the bullet, leading. This load actually recoils and moves just like Winclean range ammo.

To dispel another myth, if it starts leading, use either a slower powder charge or softer bullet (pure lead). Myth #2: you cannot fire jacketed rounds behind lead to 'clean out the leading'. This produces copper fouling on top of lead fouling, a double-trouble mess to clean out of a barrel.
Developing an automatic round in a tight, new contender barrel was a good learning experience (that's what it was).

[ilcop22]

...have to choose Unique since I can use it in anything from my smallest pistol cartridges to my largest rifle cartridges knowing that Unique can get the job done.

Robert

Ps. I am also rather fond of surplus powders.

You loaded any 30-06 with Unique? I'm still working a Varget load right now for that cartridge. Always looking for nice combinations.

[Lloyd Smale]

I shoot a ton of acps and it just doesnt make economic sense to use unique.
G'evening.

Another lazy Sunday, another opinion question.

I've been loading my .45acp 230gr boolit loads with 4gr of Bullseye for a while now. The accuracy is quite good.

Anyway, I've seen a lot about Unique powder lately, which brings me to my question: Which do you prefer in your auto loads?

[Rocky Raab]

Lots of people use Bullseye and Unique because lots of people use Bullseye and Unique. In other words, they are popular simply because they are popular. Makes sense; both have been around for almost a century now. And there's is nothing whatever wrong with either of them - or they would NOT have been around for nearly a century.

However, Clays and Universal Clays were designed to do the same jobs without some of the drawbacks of the two hoary oldsters. The Hodgdon powders measure better, shoot cleaner, smoke a bit less even with cast bullet lubes, flash less and are often even a bit cheaper.

The hard thing for me is picking a powder - I have more than 75 kinds on hand, about half of which are pistol powders. But unless there's a good reason not to, I reach for Clays or Universal Clays for any job that I might have done with the older powders.

[ChuckS1]

I have about about 10 lbs of Bullseye, all destined for 3.6 grain loads under a 200 grain H&G68 to be fired from my Les baer wadgun, as well as some occasional sidetrips to my .44 Specials and .38 Specials.

I've really never understood the concern about it being dirty, nor Unique for that matter. It's a damn fine powder and I can live with a little residue. After all, you do clean your guns, don't you? Besides, like a previous poster said, it hasn't been around for all these years if it wasn't good at what it does. Well, at least for me, it works and I like it. As far as measring well, Bullseye is very consistent for my bullseye loads in my SDB. As far as Unique, well, I gotta concede that point . I use AA#5 for consistent metering for the SDB, but I always like Unique for the old school loads in my 5 screw Smiths.

[No_1]

Nope, don't own a 30-06.

Robert


You loaded any 30-06 with Unique? I'm still working a Varget load right now for that cartridge. Always looking for nice combinations.

[ilcop22]

I checked my store today - Bullseye, Unique and Clays are all the same price. Maybe when I run out of one I'll try another. ;)

[MtGun44]

You pay pretty much the same for powder by the pound. The much lower usage of
BE or Titegroup vs Unique makes a significant difference in the long haul.
For lighter boolits in the .45 ACP Unique gives great accy but lrge velocity variation.
A VERY tight crimp helps this a bit, and a 230 gr boolit helps it a lot.

Bill

[mtgrs737]

I have lots of Unique on hand, I also have plenty of BE on hand. For my most used loading for the 45acp I have been shooting 5.7grs. of WW231 behind a 200gr. SWC cast of WW alloy from a GB H&G 68 copy I got here.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You loaded any 30-06 with Unique? I'm still working a Varget load right now for that cartridge. Always looking for nice combinations.

Yes my Lyman 49th edition (a book I highly recommend) has load data for the 30-06 and cast boolits with Unique. What weight boolits are you shooting from your 30-06?

[Rocky Raab]

This may surprise more than one of you. This is an excerpt from a Hercules brochure from (I believe) 1935. The original use of Unique was as a rifle powder!

Hercules UNIQUE was
first manufactured by the Laflin & Rand
Powder Company about the year 1898, or
shortly thereafter, and has been continuously
on the American market ever since.
It has been known generally to reloaders as
a stable and dependable powder for low power
or gallery loads for all caliber rifles.

Imagine that.

[ilcop22]

Yes my Lyman 49th edition (a book I highly recommend) has load data for the 30-06 and cast boolits with Unique. What weight boolits are you shooting from your 30-06?

That book is on my "to buy" list.

I'm using a 170gr g/c boolit from a Lee Mold.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My Lyman manual suggests a starting charge of 12.0gr Unique for a 30-06 with 170gr boolit and a Max charge of 16.5gr. However don’t just take my word for it, you never know when I might slip and make a typo.

[9.3X62AL]

Bullseye has been largely replaced by WW-231 for most of my reloading chores with that venue of powder usage (fast-burning pistol fuel). Unique gets more revolver work than autopistol usage, generally. Not to say that Unique isn't VERY useful in a ton of applications, though. It would be among the last powders I would ever be without.

[Newtire]

Haven't thought much about working up hotter loads, but if I were, I'd be tempted to give the new Unique and Hi-Skor 800x a try.

That's a yeah on the Unique and as far as the 800X goes, it's good Magnum shotgun powder but try to get it to meter evenly...it's pretty chunky stuff. I finally managed to get rid of mine loading up some 20 gauge shells.

[Newtire]

You loaded any 30-06 with Unique? I'm still working a Varget load right now for that cartridge. Always looking for nice combinations.

Try 11.5 gr. unique with any 150 grain cast in the '06=1400-1425 FPS in 24" bbl. 12.5 is great for the 170-180 grain stuff in cast=1450-1500 fps.