Cleanest burning powder?

[dubber123]

I am fooling with a 58 grain wadcutter in .357. (Yes, 58 gr.) I didn't think it would shoot worth a hoot, but the darn thing shows some promise. I am shooting these in a Marlin carbine, and want to make a small game load, but the boolit is so light, even Bullseye won't burn completely, the barrel is FULL of unburned powder.

I've never tried any even remotely "new" powders. Are any of them good in respect to clean burning with light loads? Thanks for your help.

[leftiye]

You've gotta problum (ya think?). More powder will burn cleaner, but may give you leading, or ruin yer accuracy. Maybe try red dot, etc?

[runfiverun]

or 231.
i'd look to a shotgun powder they burn just fine at lower pressures.
3.5 clays ,or red dot to start.

[dubber123]

I've tried 4 grs. of BE. It makes a bigger bang than I expected. The boolit only has a single lube groove, so I imagine I will have to call it quits on the velocity at some point. Red Dot is close to BE in burn rate, does it seem to burn cleaner? I have alot of Trailboss, but I'm not a big fan of the residue it leaves on cases. I'll prolly try some anyways. I'll try the 231 also, I have a partial pound left somewheres. Thanks.

[lurch]

Clays...? Definitely cleaner than Red Dot.

[Rocky Raab]

Clays would be better, but NOTHING will be cleaner than Solo 1000. That's an Accurate powder, now avaliable through Western (Ramshot).

(What an exceedingly odd bullet, though ...)

[405]

Maybe relative terms given the light bullet. Ditto to trying Clays and Solo 1000. Also, 700X would be worth a look-see.

[leadman]

Acurrate Arms #2 is a very clean powder in "normal" loads, like 3.6grs with a 158gr RFN. Don't know about dropping 100 grs off the boolit.

[dubber123]

Maybe relative terms given the light bullet. Ditto to trying Clays and Solo 1000. Also, 700X would be worth a look-see.

Yeah, I guess that would have been a better way to put it. I just tried 5.0 grs. of 231, thinking a little higher load density would help. It didn't. Also shot like crap. [smilie=1: I will try going in the other direction, maybe 2 grains of BE, and see if I can round up some Clays.

[KCSO]

4.0 of bullseye is a lot for that light bullet I would cut that back to 3 and see how that does. I use 6.0 of Trail Boss in a 38-55 behind a round ball for small game and that seems to work nice. You might give that a try with a starting load.

[AJ Peacock]

+1 on the Solo 1000. However, I think the fastest VV powder (N310) might even be cleaner.

Regardless, using a good tight crimp will help get the powder up to pressure and start the burn going.

AJ

[44man]

Oh my Dubber, what has the world come to? 58 gr! :kidding::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[RNyogi]

On the cutting edge again my friend! Keep goin' :drinks:

[MT Gianni]

Will 3 fit in a 357 case? Increase boolit weight or cut powder till you find the sweet spot. 2.7 gr of bullseye was the standard load over a 148 gr wadcutter for targets. I would start at 2.0 grains and see if you get complete burning, nothing stuck in the bbl and enough poweer for small game. IMO, you may want to increase bullet weight if you need more killing power.

[dubber123]

Will 3 fit in a 357 case? Increase boolit weight or cut powder till you find the sweet spot. 2.7 gr of bullseye was the standard load over a 148 gr wadcutter for targets. I would start at 2.0 grains and see if you get complete burning, nothing stuck in the bbl and enough poweer for small game. IMO, you may want to increase bullet weight if you need more killing power.

Yes indeed, 3 do fit... Burns clean too. Trying them singly was actually an after thought. [smilie=1:

[dubber123]

Oh my Dubber, what has the world come to? 58 gr! :kidding::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

What can I say Jim, I've been seriously thinking of buying a BFR lately too....:roll: Maybe I've got a fever or sumthin'... [smilie=1:

[2ndAmendmentNut]

IMR’s Trail Boss is fast and clean burning. True it might smudge the brass a little, but I would be very surprised if it left any unburned powder in the barrel. For the most part my Trail Boss loads have been very accurate from a verity of calibers. Also IMR specifically designed Trail Boss for ultra light “mouse fart” loads and cartridges that where at one time BP.

[Dframe]

+1 on the trail boss. I use it for a half dozen calibres where full power isn't needed.

[softpoint]

A cowboy shooter years ago told me his favorite, clean powder was Alliant's American Select. I've never used it, and he is the only one that ever mentioned it to me. I see they still list it. :p

[RayinNH]

Have you tried just a primer [smilie=1:or maybe a primer and a gluelit. Actually Trail Boss sounds most promising because of its bulk. Seems like ignition would be more positive...Ray

[44mag1]

Id try titegroup, Ive used very small charges in rifles with no problems
Also vv310.

[thenaaks]

+1 on titegroup
i use it in my marlin 1894 44mag. with 180gr bullets, i've never seen unburned powder...with both light and heavy loads.

[thenaaks]

boolits....sorry!

[dubber123]

Well, tried Trailboss after work today. Started at 2.5 grs. 6"+ "group" at 25 yds. Had a barrel FULL of unburned powder. I even had some "sparklers" come out of the bore well after the shot. Very entertaining... Jumped to 3.5 grains. Group 3/4" wide X 2" high. (Vertical stringing). Still some unburned powder, but MUCH better. Tried 4.0 grs., group was 1-1/2" wide X 6" high, and changed point of impact a good 7" with just 1/2 grain increase. Hmmm... Thought I was on to something for a minute. Time to try something else.

[KYCaster]

...regarding "clean burning powder".

I was once severely chastised by several people for saying that Unique is extremely "dirty". Turns out I was talking about the ash left when the powder burned and they were talking about unburned flakes of powder...totally different thing and not necessarily related. Either one can be a nuisance and I try to avoid both.

As far as leaving ash and residue, Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique and all the Accurate Arms pistol powders are among the worst offenders. I've found Hodgden Clays and Universal, also all the powders that I've tried from Vihtavouri and Ram Shot to be much better.

...but it sounds like you're concerned with unburned flakes of powder. That situation is not so easy to remedy, as you've found out.

Now the suggestion....and I have no idea if it will improve your situation.

Although I don't shoot Cowboy Action I understand that the "gamers", looking for less recoil, would seat light-for-caliber bullets below the case mouth over very small charges of fast powder to get better consistancy. Apparently the practice worked so well that it has been banned by SASS. Maybe it would work for you.

I imagine that you would have to use wadcutter brass to make it work without bulging cases with the deep seated bullet, and I have no idea if they would feed in your Marlin.

Good luck
Jerry

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I load my 148gr hbwc w/2.9 gr bullseye, and they are seated so the front of the boolit is even with the front of the case, I put a roll crimp in front of it, not into it.

Could also try going up to 75 - 80 gr boolit . . . loaded the same way.

[dubber123]

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. Yes, it's totally unburned flakes of powder. Some of the Trailboss in the bore is still "new" colored, not even singed! This boolit probably shouldn't even fly, it's wider than it is thick.

I'll tinker with Trailboss a bit more, and might pick up a pound of Clays to fool with, but after that I will just relegate this mould to multi-boolit loads, which is what I made it for. I envisioned a super light load that wouldn't carry too far for use on small game, but that might just not be possible.

[Rocky Raab]

Dubber, the problem is that you simply are not providing enough resistance, either weight or friction. Powder does not burn well (or at all) at low pressures, and every powder has a different design pressure range at which it performs best.

With a bullet that light and short, you are essentially firing a blank. No canister powder works well for that.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Dubber,

If you have already answered this question in a previous post my apologies. Have you tried magnum primers?

[leftiye]

Filler? Seat boolit as far back into case as possible?

[dubber123]

A few fellas suggested the mag primers, and no, I haven't got to try them yet. I only have a few minutes of daylight, (or none) after work to 'speriment. Leftiye, I have not tried a filler, or deep seating. This thing looks ready to flip over sideways just sitting there, so all effort has been towards getting it closer to the rifling. Maybe one of those instances where the answer is the exact opposite of what you were sure was right?

[zxcvbob]

Try some American Select. It burns so clean, it's scary. ==(8-O

[sargenv]

If you don't mind paying for it.. the Vittavouri line gets a lot of accolades from the action shooters as being the cleanest powder on the market. They make some fast burners but usually this stuff is hard to find and generally is about $25-$30 a pound (comparing to the usual $15 a pound for Alliant/IMR etc.. They would know about dirty versus clean since generally they buy and shoot ammo in the thousands..

[dubber123]

Failures-O-the day: 3.0 grs. of Bullseye, Mag primers. Maybe a bit cleaner, 1.5" group. Next, 3.0 Bullseye, case filled to base of boolit with Dacron. A bit cleaner,but 3-3/8" group. A few more things to try, but it looks like the little booger might not shoot after all. Maybe I'll try a light charge of Trailboss with the mag primers. It will be a while till I can get to the shop for something else for powders. Thanks again.

[happy7]

I have to ask, where did you get the mold? Sounds like a real challenge and a lot of fun to play with. How about alox lube and a hard crimp into the lube groove.

[stubshaft]

Oh my Dubber, what has the world come to? 58 gr! :kidding::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

I use gas checks that weigh almost that:drinks:

[dubber123]

Happy, I took a Lyman 358091, and machined a plug that fits from the bottom and reduced the mould to just 2 drive bands with a single lube groove. The plug is screwed to one half of the mould block so it works just like a normal mould. I have done this before, and it works great.

Stubshaft, yes, it's a tiny little critter. I was hoping for a light load that I wasn't afraid to use on high angle tree-rat shots without worrying about hitting someone 3 counties away. I cast about everything from 44 grains to 560 grains. After the 560's, these sounded like fun for a while....

[dubber123]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/dubber123/IMG_0112.jpg This is the main offender. The method used to shorten it may be of more use than anything else to members here. I just ran an end mill from the bottom, and screwed a flat plug into the cavity to provide a new "bottom" to the cavity.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Did you try black powder? a few grains of 4F should do the trick. Otherwise I would try Leftiye's suggestion and settle the boolit on top of the powder - this will guaranteed give you a clean burn with Bullseye.

[Edubya]

You are well beyond anything that I have done, so just consider this as brainstorming: Would a softer alloy let the bullet obturate more so as to give the back pressure for a more complete burn? Is there any way to incorporate a hollow base on that little pill?
I'd sure like for you to succeed. Good luck

EW

[Edubya]

One more thought (brainstorm or just a mental fart), what if you shortened the case? I wonder if that lil' pill would work out of a 9mm?
EW

[Ricochet]

It'd be hard to get a full wadcutter to feed in most autos.

[runfiverun]

a 158 swc will feed in 9mm's pretty well,you really have to cut down the load though and there is NOT any data out there for it.
and i can guarantee that 4 grs titegroup will disassemble a 9mm with it.
2 is more like a start.
and next time i think i'd try unique.

[w30wcf]

The lightest projectile factory loaded in the .38 Special was a round ball. It was seated deep in the case over 4 grs. of b.p. I can find no reference that smokeless powder was used in the "Gallery" cartridges. Perhaps they did try smokeless and found that b.p. gave better results?
https://www.wardscollectibles.com/images/auctionimages/2533.jpg

The lightest bullet that was ever factory loaded in the .38 Special was 116 grs.
The factory load was 2.4 grs. of Bullseye. I have used that recipe with the 116 gr. bullet in annealed cases and it was pretty clean burning.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/38SpecialMidRangeJPG.jpg

w30wcf