problem with 38/357 dies

[Doc - J]

I just got a used set of RCBS dies. ( Im using a lee 4 turret press ) I crinkeled a few cases. and Shaved some lead.... I think the problem is either Its not belling out the case enough or... Its crimping the boolite too soon. My guess (since no directions) is not the same way lee sets up there dies. and I should back off the crimper die... any help before I just go out and buy a new 4 set of lee dies.
Boolits store bought Penn..

[Flash]

You may have to seat the bullet and then crimp in a separate operation. The case mouth needs only to be belled enough to clear the bullet base when seating. You are most likely belling enough but when you crimp, the bullet probably needs to go down a few thousands more and that's where you run into trouble. Just set the dies to bell the case mouth and then charge the case and seat the bullet without crimping. Using a straight edge, crimp the loaded round just enough to straighten out the case wall and turn the mouth in a few thousands into the crimp grove of the bullet. Do this step with the bullet seating stem adjusted all the way out. After you crimp the loaded round slightly, run the round up in the crimping die again and adjust the bullet seating stem down to barely kiss the bullet on the loaded round. You are now set and have adjusted all that you're going to. Try this and if all else fails, crimp and seat in two separate operations.

[D.Mack]

Doc-J If you are crumpling cases, and/or shaving lead you are not belling enough. It's simple to check, just internal resize,and bell, then place a bullet into the case. If a bullet dosent completly sit inside the case, you will get the situation you describe. It doesn't have to go into the case very far, but it must have room to start , or the bottom edge of the bullet will catch on the case mouth, and some
thing has got to give.
As for over crimping, it can be done, but the results are usually a bulge in the case just below the crimp, which can make the case hard, or impossible to chamber. If you need a set of rcbs instructions, pm me an address, and I will send you an old set I have. DM

[454PB]

You don't say what the diameter of these boolits measure, but keep in mind that reloading dies are made for jacketed bullets. Probably over 90% of handloaders use J bullets. I agree with Flash, you should seat and crimp in two seperate operations, but if your boolits are .358, the resized case is just too small for the softer cast boolit. You need to either open up the seating area with a larger expander or use a smaller and harder boolit. Lyman makes an "M" die for doing this in rifle cases, maybe one for .35 rifle caliber would work.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Doc, does your boolit have a crimping groove? If so you can adjust the die 1/8" or so above touching the shell holder when the ram is raised, so that crimping will not occur. Adjust the seating screw until the boolit is seated in the middle of the crimping groove. Next back the seating screw off a generous amount so that no further seating can happen, even if the die is touching the shell holder. Gradually adjust the die deeper into the press until a satisfactory crimp is obtained, and lock the ring in place. Then you can adjust the seating screw downward until it touches the previously seated boolit. Now your die is adjusted to seat and crimp simultaneously. If your boolit lacks a crimping groove, you will have to adjust to seat, seat all the boolits, back off the seating screw, and then adjust to crimp separately. You also said you are shaving lead. Either your seater/crimper is mis-adjusted, or your expander is not flaring the case mouth enough. The expander should be adjusted to flare the case mouth enough to easily allow 1/8" of the boolit base to be started into the case with your fingers, but not enough to flare the case mouth enough to prevent the expanded case mouth from entering the seating die. P.S. There is probably nothing wrong with your RCBS dies, many of us believe that RCBS dues are better quality than Lee.

[buck1]

"any help before I just go out and buy a new 4 set of lee dies. "

Dont down grade!
Bell your cases a bit more, then get your length by screwing the seater plug in a lot and the die OUT a lot. this will seat your boolit with out crimping it.
Now screw out the plug and screw in the die untill you get your crimp.
Now with the die set for the crimp and the round in the die screw in the seater plug untill it touches the bullet. Fine tune and save a round for future fast die set up. ....Buck
NV posted at the same time I did! LOL

[44man]

Real good information from everyone, except they forgot one thing! If your cases are belled properly, SLOW DOWN! Set the boolit in the case mouth straight and seat slowly.
I watched a friend bang out .45 ACP brass so fast that half the boolit was outside the brass. Everything was correct, cases were expanded and belled just right but he had the idea that working the handle as fast as he could would make more loads to shoot in a shorter time. By the time I got there and stopped him, he had 500 loaded and not a single round would chamber. Boy, I can tell you, he really saved time!

[Bass Ackward]

Doc,

These guys have covered pretty much everything. There is one more item that maybe was mentioned and I just missed it.

This is the shape of the seating stem in reference to your bullets. Although you can never get these perfect, they are a main reason for incorrect seating that will deform or otherwise build in bullet runout. If you have run out, you will shave upon crimp. I don't care if you do it in a seperate step, you will still get it for obvious reasons. RCBS dies are famous for this effect, especially if you are operating with a round nose seater on flat meplat bullets.

Also, you don't mention what diameter bullets you are using. Some RCBS seater dies start shaving lead from the front band on as little at .430 bullets if they are soft enough and you aren't seating by hand straight enough brefore running them up in the die. So you also need to look at this band and see if it has been disturbed. Locating where your lead is coming from will be key in stopping it.

[versifier]

I agree that you should crimp in a separate step. While not always as important with revolver cases, I never load pistol and rifle cases any other way.
I like my many sets of RCBS dies, but I also use quite a few sets of Lee dies, too, and I think especially well of their specialty dies not offered by other makers. Their Powder Through Expanding Die #90582 or Universal Expander Die would make life a little easier using your turret press, but isn't a must have - the RCBS die that you have will bell the case mouth enough when set correctly. (Mine has been working fine for 30+ years and was part of the first die set I ever bought). What would really help you is either a Taper Crimp Die #90781 or a Carbide Factory Crimp #90861. Of the two, the taper crimp is probably better suited to use by casters, especially if you're loading larger diameter boolits. Lee's Taper Crimp is less expensive than others and every bit as good. The Carbide Factory Crimp has a carbide resizing ring at its base to ensure ease of chambering, and can undo the positive effect of casting larger boolits. If you are sizing to .358 and they shoot acceptably, then it will work fine for you. It is especially helpful if you are loading short light boolits or bullets that don't seat perfectly straight and bulge the sides of the case. One pass straightens them and gives you whatever degree of crimp that you set it for.

[StarMetal]

If you have a bullet design that has a large, deep, lazy L type crimp groove.....such as the RCBS 255 gr for the 45 LC or their 150 gr for the 357...YOU CAN SEAT AND CRIMP IN ONE ACTION...if you have your die set right. Don't let anyone tell you can't...WITH THESE BULLETS OR THOSE LIKE THEM. I agree with ones that have a little bitty crimp groove it's best to crimp in a separate die. And I don't want to hear might as well just crimp separate. NOT No sense in it if you have the bullets with the kind of crimp groove I just described. For those not familar with it , when you crimp heavy using such bullet the outer edge of the case mouth is flush with the bullet band or even slightly below it. Does it shoot? Ask 44man about my 100 yard groups using my Smith 25 in 45 LC and that RBCS bullet.

Joe

[Doc - J]

I just got a used set of RCBS dies. ( Im using a lee 4 turret press ) I crinkeled a few cases. and Shaved some lead.... I think the problem is either Its not belling out the case enough or... Its crimping the boolite too soon. My guess (since no directions) is not the same way lee sets up there dies. and I should back off the crimper die... any help before I just go out and buy a new 4 set of lee dies.
Boolits store bought Penn..

Ok, Im done with it. My friend came by and took his dies back. [the nice thing is he brought me a set of lee's dies. They work perfect..... Guess the bottom line stay with the same equipment and you can't go wrong. Also them old timers who take us young/old kids under there wings... PRICELESS :-D