Another new guy with Stupid ???'s

[GRid.1569]

Hi Folks, [smilie=s:

I've lurked here for a long time and just started to join the silver stream gang...

Started my first melt today in a Lee 4-20 pot and I'm not sure if what’s happening is normal or not... can you tell me it's all OK? :veryconfu

To start with I've melted some old 148gr wadcutters that I didn't really care for, just threw them in the cold pot, set dial to 6 or so and waited to see what happened.

Lots of smoke... (old lube boiling off ?) I'm working in a garden shed with the door open and vented eaves - when the smoke started to subside I pulled the power and let cooling begin. Noticed the finish on the inside of the pot has gone awful looking as if it's burnt off and a tar like deposit has formed on the cooling pool of lead... should that happen?

My Lyman thermo reads around 600, seems high given the dial was circa 6 - what do you think?

While it was still liquid I stirred it and the stirrer had a little Frankford flux crystals on it (I'd been crushing the caked flux) it started to sizzle, I was worried it might react like steam explosion so I stopped... (is the sizzle normal?)

A pot full of bullets "shrunk" to around half full and I just left it to cool in the pot and check the collective wisdom of the Forum....

I'm planning to do a bit of re-melting & ingoting to get the hang of using the pot before I attempt proper bullets (Boolits) don't suppose reheating the lead going to do any harm will it?

Thanks to everybody for all the knowledge I've gained from reading your posts - Now it's time to turn knowledge into experience...

Hope to soon have a large pile of 158gr Lee RNFP & 115grn WC (Lyman mold) to try out :Fire:

[montana_charlie]

I don't see any problem, yet.

If '6' on the dial equals 600 degrees on the thermometer, you have a useful 'benchmark' for finding other temperatures.

The 'tar' is (probably) the remains of the old bullet lube...and if it coated your pot then that's something you'll get used to if you insist on using waxes to flux with. Many of us like the 'wood stick' for that reason (among others).
You may find that the Frankford flux also produces 'crud' that you may not like.

If you put any substance (like the crystals) in the pot and get a 'sizzle', that is just excess moisture going away. Add the substance slowly enough to keep the sizzle from becoming a 'boil' and you'll be Ok.

When you cook down a potful of bullets, you melt a lot of empty space along with the metal. So, ending with half a pot of liquid is about right.
When you heat it all up again, a higher temperature will give you better service than 600 does when you are trying to pour ingots.

CM

[Echo]

I can't add to what MC said. Good luck, and Press On Regardless!

And welcome!

[Blammer]

Sounds good and normal to me.

[snaggdit]

Yep, your pot will not stay pristine shiny clean. Press on!

[454PB]

I agree with the others, everything you saw is normal under those circumstances. To minimize the smoke, bring some clean (no boolit lube) lead up to temperature, then add the lubed boolits slowly. The lube is a good flux, so there is no need to add any additional.

The Frankford Arsenal flux (and Marvelux) are hygroscopic, meaning they absorb moisture from the air. Keep the flux tightly sealed when it's not in use to minimize moisture absorbtion. The sizzling is normal if the flux has absorbed moisture. It does not harm, just wait for it to stop sizzling before stirring. I use a metal spoon to add and stir Marvelux, and I preheat it before hand by laying the spoon on the surface of the melt. Plunging a cold spoon into the melt is inviting the tinsel fairy.

[runfiverun]

it's the lube and it makes a mess it'll go away after a while..eventually.
next time boil the lube off in a pan with water.

[GRid.1569]

Thanks for your help guys ... Obviously I've still a lot to learn...

Montana Charlie...
the Frankford Crud... does it look like a dark gray sludge?
There seems to be no end to the stuff...

Tried to cast a few 115gr wadcutters (.357) from a single cav Lyman mold (well used)...
Yeah got the usual results... poor fill, wrinkles and all... a few keepers though (always nice first time out)...
But the thing is... the Sprue plate is getting difficult to fully close and I eventually had to stop... any recommendations?

Thanks to everybody once again...

Chris (GRid.1569)

[montana_charlie]

Thanks for your help guys ... Obviously I've still a lot to learn...

Montana Charlie...
the Frankford Crud... does it look like a dark gray sludge?
There seems to be no end to the stuff...
I can't say. I don't actually 'know' the material...just know 'about' it.


Tried to cast a few 115gr wadcutters (.357) from a single cav Lyman mold (well used)...
Yeah got the usual results... poor fill, wrinkles and all... a few keepers though (always nice first time out)...
More heat and practice ought to do it.

But the thing is... the Sprue plate is getting difficult to fully close and I eventually had to stop... any recommendations?
THAT can be a problem so serious it was enough to make me reply to your post.

For one thing, your Lyman mould should have a setscrew that locks the sprue pivot screw in position. Don't fail to use it (gently) once you get the plate properly adjusted.

If the plate is "difficult to fully close", you must find out why before you damage something.

If it doesn't pivot on the screw freely, lubricate under the screwhead and washer(s).
If you use some kind of 'wax' for this lubrication, you will never be able to stop adding more...and you will eventually have to clean off the ring of hardened crud that forms when the wax carbonizes.
A tiny dab of anti-seize compound will last for weeks (or months)...and there is no build-up.

If the plate is rubbing too hard on the top of the mould blocks, loosen the pivot screw.
A plate should never be screwed down 'tight' to the mould top.
It should be loose enough to allow the plate to swing with almost no friction.

CM

[Shiloh]

Old lube on scrap boolits or range lead is smoky. I cast in the garage and my buddy smelts on hot breezy days to dissipate the smoky fumes. The old lube also acts as a flux.

Burn it off, flux as usual, cast, lube, load, shoot, repeat.

Shiloh

[GRid.1569]

Oh!... Glad you replied...

I used a little Alox stick lube which helped for a few casts... but then... back to square one...

I'll get some copperslip grease ( the only antisezie I've ever come across here in the U.K.) it's normally used in auto brakes to stop binding...

Like I said... still a lot to learn... Thank You M.C.

[GRid.1569]

Old lube on scrap boolits or range lead is smoky. I cast in the garage and my buddy smelts on hot breezy days to dissipate the smoky fumes. The old lube also acts as a flux.

Burn it off, flux as usual, cast, lube, load, shoot, repeat.

Shiloh

Thank You Shiloh...

I've actually got my hands on around 100 Lbs of scrap range lead - the best kind... the one somebody else dug out [smilie=l:
I now know what to expect when smelting...

Got (bought) around 50 Lbs of Linotype from a specialist printing company here in the U.K. - any thoughts on how I should utilise this?

I shoot .357 from a Marlin 1894 & Taurus revolver at relatively low velocities (1000 - 1100 in the Marlin) for target shootin' I was thinking about a Lb or 2 each smelt just to keep up the Antimoney / Tin %age... Yea or Nae?

OMG.... I've just realised... I've become an enviromentalist... I'm recycling...:mrgreen:

"cast, lube, load, shoot, repeat." is that your S.O.P. ? :kidding:

[shotman]

dont use your Lee to melt the range scrap. Oil dry /kitty litter ever what you have over there is good the get the old flux soaked up. leave it on top and dont let pot get to low

[45nut]

Remember the stupid question is the one un-asked that results in injury or worse.
Stop and ask the questions before trouble starts and you and your equipment will be the better for it.

[montana_charlie]

I'll get some copperslip grease ( the only antisezie I've ever come across here in the U.K.) it's normally used in auto brakes to stop binding...
Not until you said that did I look to see where you are. I'll do my best (when possible) to provide suggestions that have a chance of being followed in the U.K.

I am not familiar with copperslip grease, but your auto mechanics probably have a grease which they apply to engine headbolts or exhaust manifold bolts...especially with aluminum engines...that prevent seizure due to high temperatures.
(Shoo!...There's a long sentence!?)

Copperslip may be similar, but anti-seize compound will take temperatures above 1000 degrees F. without breakdown. Some varieties even contain copper.

When you apply it to those areas that suffer from friction, do it very sparingly. The lightest film will do the job, and any excess is prone to migrate into places you don't want it in.

It's an excellent substance for demonstrating Scottish thriftiness because a thimbleful will last you a lifetime.

CM

[mto7464]

when getting a lot of smoke will fluxing, (or melting lubed boolits) hold a match in the smoke and it will burn< Be careful when you try this the first time as it still startles me. Perfectly safe to do for you and the pot.

[HeavyMetal]

You might find good dry Sawdust, very fine will be a very good flux that won't leave that grey crud in your pot!

That and a wood dowel from a hobby store to stir with, by the way put it in the lead slowly it may bubble a bit if you just stick in in hot alloy, and you can clean the sides of the pot as you go along!

[XWrench3]

actually, you sound like me when i first started. hopefully, you did a little reading before you dove into this. but still, without haveing a person right there to show you the ropes, it is rather confusing. first off, welcome. second, if you are going to cast and especially if you are going to smelt inside, you MUST get good powerful forced air ventilation! you need to suck all of those fumes out of the area, or you could end up really sick! an old kitchen range hood/vent would suffice, or a squirrel cage fan and a little duct work. as for the nasty stuff in your pot, yep, it happens! especially, if you smelt in it. when you get the pot empty, you can scrub it out. but, it will get nasty again. there really is just no way around it. i cleaned mine up, and gave it several coats of mold release (spray on graphite). i went as far as to totally disassemble it, scour it with steel wool, coat it, and reassemble. guess what. after 5 or 6 casting sessions (i vowed to never again smelt in my casting pot again), the pot is starting to get cruddy again. lead, is a dirty substance. every time you flux, it removes more, and some of it ends up on the walls of your pot. so dont worry to much about it. every so often, just scrape what you can out of it, and keep on pouring. as for the 600 degree thing, `1) every thermometer is a little different, so what may be 600 on yours, may be 550 on anothers, or 650 on someone elses. my thermometer reads 650 degree before the lead will even begin to pour out of the bottom (i have the same pot as you). i regularly melt to obtain a full pot before i do much else. once i get started, i do not want to start and stop several times (unless i am on a casting marathon) while i am casting. a suggestion, go back up towards the top of this page, and read the stickey post about lead safety! i did not, until last night, i wish i had prior to starting!

[GRid.1569]

Many thanks to everybody for the help...

Looks like it be next weekend before I get more "Pot-time" (melting not smoking) :)


Winter's coming... had frost on the car this morning...:!:

Looks like shooting will soon be over 'til Spring... still got something else to amuse myself with now... should have a good stockpile over the next few months...

Cheers Folks