Need a Load for a cast 245 gr Kieth in a Smith 329PD

[Cntrmass]

I have some H110 and some 2400.

I have shot 22 grains of H110 and am getting 1050 FPS. Can I do better?

Please help.

TIA

[dubber123]

Try 22 grains of 2400. I would bank on it making more speed than the H-110 load you listed. I don't have my notes here, but your load sounds a little light for H-110 with that boolit weight.

[Shuz]

I use 18g of 2400 with a 429421HP@230g, or a 225g (modified 429244HP) boolit both sized .431. I don't remember what the loads chrono'd, and I'm not home to look it up. My point is this...whenever I used 245g or heavier boolits outta my 329PD, and normal charges of 2400 or WC 820, I got severe boolit jump on the rounds remaining in the cylinder after just 2 rounds fired. So...whatever load you settle on, make sure you address the boolit jump issue. By the way, my expander ball is turned down to .423 and I have used a Lee Factory Crimp die, to no avail.

[Cntrmass]

I shot 23 gr H110 tonight. No Bullet jump and no increase in FPS. Guess I'll try the 2400 next.

[EDK]

Brian Pearce did an article specifically on heavy loads for a S&W 329 in February 2008 issue of HANDLOADER magazine. A lot of good information on reloading your light weight 44.

I'd load it with full wadcutters (Blammer's group buy of 429352 last year is great! and available from OLD WEST BULLET MOULDS) and start low....going for control rather than maximum power.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Dale53]

The .44 Magnum needs SOME barrel length to realize it's potential.

You will NOT get true .44 Magnum performance with a really short barrel.

However, 1000 fps is NOT chopped liver...

Dale53

[Three44s]

H110 needs more barrel length than 2400 does in my opinion.

Brian Pearce in another article wrote of testing new versions of 2400 and claims that 20.6 gr. of 2400 equals 22 gr. of the old stuff.

So be careful.

Also, use standard primers with heavy charges of 2400 so as to not overly spike pressures.

I shoot a Mountain gun a lot with the RCBS 250K boolit.

For just normal toting around I carry either 20 gr. of 2400 (1262 fps) (std primer) or 11.8 gr of HS-6 (1066 fps, 7 fps standard deviation) and the Federal magnum primer.

With 21 gr. of 2400 (before I read Pearce's assessment) I got 1300 fps.

I also had to send my Mountain gun in for some R&R with my enabler about that same time. The work was unrelated to the the hot loads but it spooked me. The 21 grainers only get used in my RH and SRH now.

My four inch Mg will only get 20.6 of 2400 or less from now on.

If I owned a 329PD ....... I would try that HS-6 IN A HEART BEAT!!! (Note my SD of just 7 fps!!)

Three 44s

[softpoint]

20 grains of 2400 with the 429421 Keith boolit or the 429244 Gas check. I've shot a tractor -trailor load of that load. Accurate, easy on guns, plenty of power. Never had one stop inside the few animals I shot with that load, either:redneck:

[GLynn41]

the short barrel would better with 2400, good crimp and a samller expander is not a bad idea- I have done that on a wildcat i shoot///--I have used a 4" 57 and4" 29 a lot -- h110/296 gave a big fireball but 2400 was more pleasant --AA#9 might also be good as it is about 2400 //little slower but not much
Will these guns put up with this long term? the older 29s did not always

[Cntrmass]

I will look into the HS 6 and the 2400.
I don't want to tear anything up, I just want something to carry thats controlable.

I don't imagine anything could take to many 250 grain cast slugs and keep coming.

Thanks for all your help.

[JesterGrin_1]

Cntrmass I have to ask what are you loading for? Target,Self Defense,Bear?

If it is for Target or Self Defense you do not need such a HOT load. They are hard on you and on your Pistol not to mention the time it takes to control the pistol for the next shot. A 250Gr Boolit at 850 to 900 FPS would do the job just fine.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Another reason to load slower is the speed of sound.
Here's an online calculator: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-speedsound.htm

Don't know what ranges you plan on shooting; inside 25 yards shouldn't make much of a difference. However, at longer ranges, boolit buffeting at near-mach and in the transonic region wreaks havoc with accuracy.

At 0°F, the speed of sound (Mach 1) is roughly 1,051 FPS. At 100°F, it's roughly 1,160 FPS. The onset of buffeting occurs at roughly 0.8-0.9 Mach, and gets much worse right up to Mach 1. Boolit design will increase or decrease the speed at which the onset of buffeting occurs.

So, somewhere around 850 FPS (roughly 0.8 Mach @ 0°F) would be a good speed to avoid buffeting.

[Cntrmass]

Jester, I'm loading towards the high end for a couple of reasons. I have a Moose tag this year and we have been getting Grizzly bears in our area.

I've never shot anything bigger than a whitetail with a pistol. I have no idea what will stop a 250 grain Kieth style bullet made of wheel wieghts and some tin thrown in.

I shot over the chronograph the other day and a friend with a Ruger 44 special was getting 1050 the same FPS I was getting.
So I thought I would try something a little faster burning like 2400. I am starting with 18,19 grains and will chrono those. Any help is appreciated.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well Since you threw in BEAR lol. And also you did not mention what type of Pistol you have. But if you have a Ruger .44 Mag then I would have to say use the LEE 310Gr with 21.5Gr of H-110 or W-296. It will not be very fast but it will hit like a Locomotive. :)

[waco]

i have a load with the lee 310gr using 8 gr of 231 out of my ruger blackhawk that chron. at just under 1000fps.
plenty to get anything i need done, and a cheap load to boot!
i leave the gc off, and get almost 1000 rnds per # of powder
universal and unique are my other go to powders for the 44

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yup, 20 gr 2400 and the 429421 or 244 boolit will get you all you need for speed and killing, been using it for a lot of years, and yes you have to crimp the boo lits in the cases or they will move. In you lite pistol 18gr should be a good load.....like the man says, you need BBL length to get more FPS. But you have a carry pistol , so I would work for a load that I could handle and make sure the boo lits are hard enough to stand a good firm crimp, and still shoot.

I like the 429215 in short bbl carry pistolas, 21 gr 2400, I water drop these so no leading problems. I have a 329 from the custom shop and this is what I use in it, it has a muzzel brake so I don't worry to much about anything except where the boolit is going, I have not Cronoed this load and don't care, it shoots where I point. WFM

[Lloyd Smale]

if it were me and i was loading for a 329 id go a differnt route if i wanted more power. Id switch to a 300 grain bullet and run that about 1000-1100 fps. Youd have a load that would shoot through about anything and the recoil would probably be less then pushing a 250 to 1200-1300 fps. 22 grains of 110 or 20 of 2400 would probably get you there. As to barrel lenght and velocitys. I have 4 inch guns that shoot as fast as my 6 inch guns. Dont let anyone tell you that you cant get full potential out of a 44 using a 4 inch barrel. Shooting a cast bullet much over 1200 fps isnt buying you anything anyway and most 4 inch guns will easily do that with about any bullet weight.

[Dale53]

Cntrmass;
This might be of help to you:

http://www.gunblast.com/SW329PD.htm

Dale53

[Cntrmass]

I shot 18 grains of 2400, if the chrono was right, 1500 fps.
I did not shoot the loads that had 19 grains.The bullets started to back out and recoil was for me, rediculous.

I will try 16 grains of 2400 and see what that does.

[Three44s]

I'd really question that 1500 fps out of a four inch tube.

Better re-run those.

Also, when it comes to 2400: Standard primers are the rule.

I bend that rule starting at charges of 18 gr. and lighter for the .44 mag ..... magnum primers at those lower levels.

Three 44s

[Cntrmass]

The chrono was acting up that day, I just know the recoil was too stiff and I'm going to try 16 grains.

do you get more consistency with mag primers under 18 or ? why do you use them under 18

[Hardcast]

Handloading friends,

Although I started using 2400 nearly 40 years ago, I always found the leftover yellow powder kernels very annoying. This is 2009. Isn't there a cleaner burning powder that offers the same burn rate?

[felix]

VV-N110. ... felix

[Three44s]

Cntrmass,

I found better consistency with magnum primers at 18g of 2400 and below.

The reason for standard primers with 2400 is that it ignites relatively easy for a magnum powder and as such, it was found that pressures spiked less violently by not using magnum primers. (Source: Elmer Keith)

But with a reduced load ....... pressure spikes are not a factor ........... good ignition is important.

My experience was that HS-6 gives better performance than a greatly reduced 2400.

With HS-6 I always use magnum primers.

Per Brian Pearce (Handloader magazine) my top load is 20.6 gr. of 2400 (std. primer)

My "bear lites" are 20.6 gr ....... again standard primers.

At 18 gr. I switch to magnum primers and accuracy is outstanding.

My absolute drop dead favorite load is 11.8 gr. of HS-6 (Hogdon's #26 manual) and a magnum primer.

With Unique, I defer to Skeeter Skelton: 8.5 gr of Unique

And I also use Titegroup and Clays for either plinkers or target ...... but that's below any defense loading.

All the loads are .44 mag and are all without exception pushing the RCBS 250K boolit and are all very useful in my Mountain Gun.

Three 44s

[Hardcast]

VV-N110. ... felix

I've heard of N-110, but have never tried VV powders. Maybe that's the brand that is so expensive. In your opinion, is it worth the price?

[dougader]

I, too, think your chronograph was acting up; 1500 fps would be unlikely from even a revolver with a 6" tube with 18 grains of 2400.

The Lyman 49th manual shows a bunch of loads with their 429421. They cast it with linotype and put the weight right at 245 grains.

With H110, Lyman lists a starting charge of 24 grains for 1218 fps from a 4" test barrel @ 31,900 CUP; MAX is listed as 25 grains H110 for 1301 fps @35,300 CUP.

With 2400 the start charge is 18.5 grains for 1087 fps @ 30,300 CUP, and MAX runs 20.6 grains for 1286 fps @ 37,200 CUP.

With 245-250 Keith bullets I like 16 grains Blue Dot. From a 4" 629-1 these loads run just over 1100 fps.

[softpoint]

Hardcast, My opinion on the VV powders is that they are VERY good, and in some cartridges they produce better results than any others. In those cases they are probably worth it. VV110 has been an outstanding performer in the .44, I've had exceptional good luck with the hard to find N130 in the 7.62X39. Price and availability keep me from using more of it than I do. See what Felix's opinion of it is.:-P

[TonyT]

I load the old Lyman #429421 at the other end of the spectrum with Trail Boss in 44 Special cases at ca 700 fps.

[Three44s]

TB worked fine thus far in magnum cases for me as well.

Three 44s