Modified Wheel Weight Group Buy (2% Tin, 4% Anitmony, .25% Arsenic)

[Zbench]

Based on the poll which we conducted and the discussion in the thread located here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=62182

we’ll start a group buy for what I’ve termed “Modified Wheel Weight” Alloy. The composition will be 2% Tin, 4% Antimony, and .25% Arsenic. The Arsenic is for those who want to water drop to get the hardest alloy possible.

The alloy will be professionally cast by the foundry we use here in Cleveland and will be in notched bar form as seen in the photos below. Each bar weighs about 8#. Each bar will be stamped with the composition so you can keep track of what it is years from now (assuming it lasts that long), or if you buy other alloys from us and don’t want them to get mixed up.

We need commitments for 5000# to place the order. The cost is $1.58/#. Victor and I have decided that regardless of what the market does, we will honor that price. We realize most people like to know “the cost” and to allow it to float would perhaps cause people to lose interest. The $1.58 price is based on market conditions today.

We will close the group buy when we reach 5000# total, or on October 5, whichever occurs LATER. This should give everyone time to place an order if they want it. Once the group buy closes and the order placed, the alloy will be for sale on the LeadandBrass.com website for $1.90 which is 20% higher than we are offering here, so there is a real incentive to get in on this group buy.

As for shipping, we intend to heavily leverage the USPS flat rate box. Each 68# will cost $13.95 to ship. You are welcome to drive to the gem of the Midwest, Cleveland Ohio, and pick up your lead in person. After work or on the weekend is fine as long as we arrange on the time jointly. For very large orders, if it’s advantageous for both of us, we can ship via common carrier. We will do whatever is cheapest, but for most folks who want a hundred pounds or so, the flat rate box(es) is(are) the way to go. We will ship any amount, but increments of 68# are best if you want to minimize the amount of postage/lb.

Here are the logistics to get in on the buy:

Please indicate the amount you want and your email address (don’t use an @ symbol so you stay clear of the spammers) here. All that is required is CB User ID, Amount in Pounds, Truncated email address: Zbench 68# pete leadandbrass.com

I’ll periodically update the list and provide a total.

When we reach the amount required for the buy, I will email you a coupon code which will allow you to get the discounted price on the leadandbrass.com website. For administrative ease, we plan to use that to collect all your shipping info, ordered amounts, etc.

We prefer payment through paypal, although we can accept a money order. It’s so easy to pay with PayPal, if you have a credit card, that is our great preference (if for no other reason it is easy to print the shipping label).

Once everyone has paid, we will place the order with the foundry. They generally take a week to 10 days to process our order. Once we have it, we will begin to ship it out or arrange for folks to pick it up. We will likely need a few weeks to get it all out, and will ship in the order in which people place orders and pay for it. Unless it takes a long time to reach 5000#, I expect everyone will have their alloy by 1 November.

This is a long intro, but I thought rather than have a bunch of piecemeal Q&A, I’d try to think of everything so people can make a decision. We hope this will be the first of many group buys we run.

If you have questions, you can post them here, or send me a PM.

Happy Casting!

Pete and Victor
LeadandBrass.com



I figure I might as well put the list here as people will always see it first.



CB User Name | Pounds | Email

257 Shooter 204 jimdudley sbcglobal.net
geargnasher 136 tazdevil7772000 yahoo.com
timbuck 68 tschmidt30 wi.rr.com
Ctkelly 68 corey.kelly gmail.com
trmungle 204 acresta hotmail.com
R.C. Hatter 35 hatterrc gmail.com
M_Phipps 68 M_Phipps peoplepc.com
dominicfortune00 204 dominicfortune00 yahoo.com
JSnover 68 j_snover hotmail.com
EchoSixMike 136 target1371 aol.com
foxtrotter 68 foxtrotter1 gmail.com
Dye 68 Dyecom9 aol.com
Down South 68 swactor hughes.net
Bearcove 204 Kris cableone.net
Jack Stanley 136 jackstan308 gmail.com
KLRrider 68 dbauman1 cpinternet.com
Bob Krack 68
groo 204 mechapman embarqmail.com (local pick up)
TNShawn 68 everydaylife charter.net
JMN322 68 jmnorton nc.rr.com
pb man 136 phiggins1 verizon.net
practical man 136 1practical.man gmail.com
Mallard57 136 jeffmt yahoo.com
John D 272 wa2eya verizon.net
ClarkEMyers 204 ClarkEMyers ClarkEMyers.com
442man 68 442man charter.net
Rhoa4396 68 Rhoa4396 aol.com
Rockrat 1020 <private>
480shooter 136 chipreier yahoo.com
articbreeze 136 mmilligan arcticbreeze-ac.com
20nickels 68 copyclint hotmail.com
Ed K 68 mvesk yahoo.com
kirb 68 kdkirby icsofidaho.com
vulture47 68 sdennis ubtanet.com
41cal 125 Marksluka comcast.net
Poorguy 136 <private>
10mmJack 136 jfl bresnan.net
Centex Bill 68 <private>
snowwolfe 68 snowwolfe gci.net



bold green=paid

Total 5260
To Go: -260

[257 Shooter]

257 Shooter 136#jimdudleysbcglobal.net

[geargnasher]

I'm in for 30 lbs.

geargnasher 30# tazdevil7772000yahoocom

You have my info already, Pete.

Gear

[timbuck]

timbuck 68# tschmidt30 wi.rrcom
I didnt include all the dots. there is one by the com.
Do you have a soft and a water quenched brinell hardness for this?

[felix]

The boolits will be tough as well as hard, quenched or not. Thanks to the included arsenic. ... felix

[Zbench]

I don't since I don't have any made, but I will assay it using my Rockwell tester when it arrives and calculate the true Brinnel Hardness number.

Pete

[Ctkelly]

ctkelly 50# corey.kelly gmail.com

[trmungle]

68 x 3 = 204# lacresta-hotmail.com. Thanks, Tom

[R.C. Hatter]

I'm in for 35#- R.C. Hatter hatterrc( at ) gmail (dot) com

[M_Phipps]

68#
M_Phipps
M_Phipps peoplepc com

[dominicfortune00]

I'll take 68 x 3 for 204#

dominicfortune00 is dominicfortune00 at yahoo.com

[257 Shooter]

There has to be a lot more guys out there that need a good alloy to melt than just the 8 of us. Kalifornia guys are going to need some since lead WW's have been banned there. Yes this is a shamless bump because we are 4200lbs short and it beats the devil out of sorting buckets of WW.

[JSnover]

I'm in.
JSnover
68#
j_snover at hotmail.com

[geargnasher]

There has to be a lot more guys out there that need a good alloy to melt than just the 8 of us. Kalifornia guys are going to need some since lead WW's have been banned there. Yes this is a shamless bump because we are 4200lbs short and it beats the devil out of sorting buckets of WW.

I'm sure there are, just hope they figure it out before they have to pay $2/lb for it.

Gear

[Zbench]

We'll, were nearly 20% there and it's only been a few days. Perhaps if everyone here talks with their fellow CB friends about it, it will get more traction. While CB seems like a small group, the board is pretty large with all the subforums. Some may not know that the GB is going on.

Key thoughts:

A 68# box arrives postage paid for $121.39

Professionally prepared alloy ready to use right out of the box

20% savings over eventual retail price

$0.78/lb cheaper than Rotometals comparable alloy


Let's see where we can take this!

Pete

[EchoSixMike]

Put me down for two (2x) 68lb boxes.
target1371 at aol dot com
S/F....Ken M

[foxtrotter]

foxtrotter 68# foxtrotter1 gmail.com

[Dye]

Dye 68# Dyecom9@aol.com

[Down South]

Put me down for 2-68# box. swactor at hughes dot net

On edit, I added another 68# box. This should be a good alloy for my S&W 460.

[bearcove]

I'll take a 68# box to try. Bearcove / 68lbs / Kris cableone net

[Jack Stanley]

I think I'll try a couple of boxes .... two sixty-eight pound boxes , a hundred thirty-six pounds right ? jackstan308 gmail.com

I can send money order or credit card if you like , I call Leeland brass to pay ??

Thanks Jack

[KLRrider]

KLRrider 1 (one) 68 pound box please dbauman1 cpinternet.com

[Zbench]

Slowing down here...is this all there is? Still plenty of time, but got a ways to go.

[bearcove]

No worries, these things tend to go slow then all of a sudden its done.

[Groo]

68lb groo mechapman embarqmail.com

[Groo]

groo here
any in central ohio could get together and drive up,,
a couple of orders would pay gas.

[Groo]

Groo here
If we drive up there will we be able to add to orded that day???
I need to add a second 68 already an maybe more..

[Zbench]

Groo,

You are welcome to make the trip and pick up as much as you like. How many boxes should I put you down for?
Thanks for your interest.

Pete

[Groo]

Groo here
I started reading this GB about 2hr ago and am at 68LB X#3 = 204lb allready..
Need to pass the word some more. Thankyou

[Zbench]

Groo, got you down for 204#. Just post here with any additions to that amount. Appreciate the contact.

Pete

[TNshawn]

I'll take 1 ea @ 68#.

[JMN322]

I'm in.

JMN322 68# jmnorton nc.rr.com

[Zbench]

340# in the last day. At this pace we'll be placing the order in no time. Who else is in?

[pb man]

I'll take 136#.

Pete phiggins1 verizon.net

pb man

[257 Shooter]

Bump to keep this GB fresh.

[practical_man]

I'll take two 68# boxes. 1practical.man [at] gmail [dot] com

[Bob Krack]

I have some interest BUT I absolutely refuse to give my E-Mail in open forum - and I guess you can see a little concern by others.

Put me down for one, my E-Mail can be PM'd to you.

Bob

[Zbench]

Bob,

No problem at all. In the days of free email accounts from google, yahoo, hotmail and the like, I figured most people use that sort of account for a forum like this. They do a remarkable job of weeding out the spam from the real mail.

We're all about customer service at LeadandBrass.com, so just send a PM with your private email, and I'll keep it on file for when the deal closes.

If there is anyone else worried about this, please adjust fire accordingly.

Got you down for one box.

Pete

[Mallard57]

Mallard57 136# jeffmt yahoo.com

[John D]

I'm in for 4 - 68# boxes.

John D 272 wa2eya verizon.net

[257 Shooter]

We are over half way there!

[Zbench]

For sure. With all the talk of WW scrap bringing .90/lb and up, this is looking better and better every day. Hope people jump on the chance to get some at this price before it closes.

Pete

[ClarkEMyers]

3 X 68 = 204
anything ahead of the at really but ClarkEMyers at ClarkEMyers with a dot com
ClarkEMyers.com is fine.

[442man]

68# 442man 442man charter net

[Rhoa4396]

It's been a hectic 2 weeks for me and I figured this was already off..... glad I finally got back on the web. I'll take a 68# box myself.

Rhoa4396@aol(dot)com

[rockrat]

PM sent

[bearcove]

Change mine from 68 to 200#

Thanks Rod

[257 Shooter]

Pete, add another 68# for me.204 total.

[rockrat]

15 boxes for me, 1020lbs (Gotta feed that 50bmg mould somehow)

[Zbench]

All, we're about 13 boxes from the amount required to close the buy. With the recent large order by rockrat, and several others from folks who have contacted me privately, this group buy could close at any time.

As such, for those who are already on the list and want to increase their order as some have done, now is the time.

This has been fun, and look forward to moving it into the payment and order phase in the very nearest future.

Regards,

Pete

[257 Shooter]

Thanks for the up date Pete!

[480shooter]

480shooter 136# chipreier yahoo com

[bearcove]

Pete,
You can make mine 204 instead of 200. That's fine by me.
Thanks Rod

[squid1230]

Pete,
The shipping quote is Stateside I presume. How much for a flat rate box to Canada?
If reasonable - I'd me interested in 68#

[Zbench]

Squid,

Sadly, the PO limits flat rate boxes to 20# for international use. I could look into fedex ground for you if you are interested in a box

Pete

[geargnasher]

Pete, increase my order from 30# to 2 boxes (136#)

Thanks,

Gear

[arcticbreeze]

I will take 136 lbs (2x68)

mmilligan (at) arcticbreeze-ac (dot) com

[20nickels]

68# for me pleeeeze.

copyclint _ hotmail_com

[Zbench]

Getting close...only 7 more boxes to take us over the top. Who is going to be the guy to do it? :D

[Ed K]

I'll take 68#

Ed K 68 mvesk yahoo.com

[kirb]

I will take 68 lbs kdkirby icsofidaho com

Thanks

Kirb

[vulture47]

I'm in
vulture47 68# sdennisubtanetcom

[41cal]

I'll take 125 lbs
41cal Marksluka comcast net

[PoorGuy]

I'm in for the final chunk.

Poorguy 136# <private>

[Zbench]

Well guys, it's a wrap. If there are any last minute folks that want in, better be quick. Tomorrow I'll start the process to request payment and as soon as everyone has paid, we'll get this on order.

I'd like to target 26 Oct to get all the money in. We do use paypal and prefer it, but money orders are fine too.

Took about a week longer than I thought, but all in all, it went quick.

Really looking forward to getting this in stock and shipped!!!

Pete

[10mmJack]

I would like 136 lbs please

10mmJack jfl bresnan.net

[CENTEX BILL]

I will be in for a 68 lb box.

Centex Bill

78132

[Zbench]

Ok Guys...this GB is closed. We'll keep it open here until payment occurs and we place the order at which time it will be moved to the closed forum. 10mm and Centex, you're in. But to quote Vin Diesel in the Chronicles of Riddick: "What took you so long?" :D

I am in the process of sending out instructions for how to get logged in our system at leadandbrass.com and payment.

Thanks everyone!

Pete

[Zbench]

PS. If you are ordering one box or less, you can just complete and pay....it's the multiple boxes that I am having a hard time figuring out how to handle.

[arcticbreeze]

Well I just completed the order page, was I first?[smilie=w:

[Zbench]

Not the first, but 3 have already registered and paid. Keep it coming, we'll be taking the lead to the foundry in no time.

Pete

[Down South]

Done deal. I'll be waiting to hear from Paypal now I guess.

[John D]

I just registered and sent payment...

[Zbench]

I'm updating the people who pay at the start of the thread in green. If you have paid and don't see your name in green within 8 hours or so, let me know.

Appreciate how prompt you all are being...the faster this gets paid for, the quicker we can get this out of the foundry.

Pete

[Down South]

I didn't get an email from Paypal so I went to Paypal web site and there was an invoice waiting on me from LeadandBrass. Just a heads up for you guys who might be waiting to hear from Paypal.

[20nickels]

Took me straight to paypal. Tks for everything Pete.

[Groo]

Groo here
Do you need paypal or can I pay when I come up?

[Zbench]

Groo,

Folding money is fine for local pick up. No heads of cattle or sheep to be sheared please. :D

Pete

[Zbench]

Just a quick update, out of the 38 customers in the Group Buy, 15 have registered at LeadandBrass.com, and 12 have paid.

We've made good progress, but if you have not registered yet, please do so as there are still 23 folks to go.

Thanks to those who have already completed the process, we'll be ordering out alloy in no time.

Pete

[arcticbreeze]

Maybe you should send out some pms. It was just by chance I checked the progress and it seemed like it went from a few orders to complete pretty quick. Some may not realize it.

[Zbench]

I sent a pm to everyone...did some not get it?

[PoorGuy]

Just got the PM - thanks! I'll square this away from home tonight.

[Jack Stanley]

I got the one you sent and found my way through the process . I think it got the shipping wrong 'cause I think I'm gonna need two boxes ... I'm guessing they will catch that and then I'll send them the money order so we can get this right the first time .

Jack

[bearcove]

I went on and didn't figure it out. I'll have help this weekend. She should be able to get it done. I'm getting three boxes, did you figure out how to do shipping for multiple boxes?
Thanks Rod

[Zbench]

Rod,

If you follow the directions at the site, I will send you a paypal invoice or directions to send a money order. Send a PM if you need help.

23 folks have registered at the site, and many have paid. Need to hear from 14 more and we will get this on order! Away this weekend, so if someone writes, I may be slow in responding.

Pete

[JSnover]

I got the PM and registered (forgot to include my CastBoolits handle). As soon as I get an address I'll get the payment out

[rockrat]

Got your total and will get it in the mail tomorrow!

[bearcove]

Done did it.

[257 Shooter]

BTT to remind every one we are almost paid up.

[geargnasher]

My MO went in the mail this morning.

Gear

[Zbench]

Gear,

Appreciate that. We still have quite a few folks who I have yet to hear from. I have not received any money orders yet, but many say they are on the way. I was hoping to get the order in next week, but that looks unlikely unless folks move to get payments in.

Thanks for those who have registered at the site and paid. I'll start contacting folks individually tomorrow who have yet to get in touch.

Pete

[Ed K]

I've sent a couple of PMs over the past few days regarding a concern with my order. Can you please take a look or post here if they're not getting through to you?

Thanks, Ed

[Zbench]

Rockrat and RC Hatter, got your Money orders today. Thanks!

[Zbench]

All, just a quick update. I wrote everyone I haven't heard from in hopes of closing the last few loose ends. I'm sure I'll get more money orders tomorrow and the next day.

A few of you indicated you completed the order. I looked in our order system and I see that at least a few have created a user profile, but I don't have an order. If you haven't received an order through email, you probably quit before the "place order" part.

If you log back in at leadandbrass.com, you will likely see it still in your cart. Just make sure you put in your CB user name and how you want to pay (money order or paypal), pick local pickup and complete the process. Once I get your order, I'll either send you a paypal invoice or instructions on how and where to mail a money order.

There are only 7 folks I'm waiting on, so most everyone has completed what is needed.

I'm hoping we can complete this by the end of the week so we can place the order next week.

Thanks in advance!

Pete

[trmungle]

Been gone, will square up tomorrow by PayPal. Thanks, Tom

[Zbench]

Geargnasher and JSnover, recevied your payments today...thanks! Closing in on the end of this with just 7 outstanding.

Pete

[Jack Stanley]

Money order got picked up today , you should have it soon . I'm sure if I'd have sent the amount requested someone would be asking me for more shipping money . I bet that would have took longer huh? :bigsmyl2:

Jack

[bearcove]

Done did it again!

[Zbench]

Bearcove,

Your order once again done didn't make it.

What can I do to help? Time grows short.

Pete

[Zbench]

All,

I've been in touch with just about everyone, and have assurances that money orders for those still outstanding are either on the way, or soon will be.

As such, Victor and I will be dropping off the lead at the foundry on Monday. According to the Production Manager, it will likely take them a week to turn it into ingot to our specs. The last time it took a little longer than he said, but, it was for a much smaller order. Here is a time line to use for planning since I know many are anxious:

26 Oct Drop lead off at Foundry (firm)
03 Nov Pick up alloy from Foundry (anticipated)
04-16 Nov Ship Alloy (anticipated)

The shipping time line is compressed, but I have to get it done as I'll be in the Caribbean with the Mrs starting on 17 November.

I'll enjoy reading your comments from the beach as the 2.5 tons of alloy find their way to each of you around the country.

Will post updates here as they develop.

Pete

[PoorGuy]

Thanks for the update and the timeline Pete!

Looking forward to working with this lead.

[geargnasher]

Your post office is gonna hate you!

I was at mine today and I asked this "lispy"[smilie=1: fellow behind the counter if the 70 lb limit applied to the medium boxes too, and he said yes, but he'd never seen even a large box weigh more than about 35 lbs since the inception of the flat rate program.

I told him that was about to change :twisted:.

Gear

[techlava]

Is it too late to add 2-68# boxes?

[PoorGuy]

Your post office is gonna hate you!

I was at mine today and I asked this "lispy"[smilie=1: fellow behind the counter if the 70 lb limit applied to the medium boxes too, and he said yes, but he'd never seen even a large box weigh more than about 35 lbs since the inception of the flat rate program.

I told him that was about to change :twisted:.

Gear

My post office won't deliver heavy packages to my door. They always make me go to the sorting facility that opens late and closes early.

A small price to pay for reasonable shipping costs.

[Zbench]

Poor Guy,

My local guy tried that jazz. Here is the bottom line up front. If it can be mailed, it can be delivered to your door. It took me printing out the USPS Union employees daily responsibilities and "discussing it" with the postmaster. It clearly states that USPS hourly union employees be able to lift 70 pounds in the daily performance of their work.

Once that document was in hand, and I refused to pick up the packages, low and behold, everything arrives at my front door step. Not to offend any letter carriers among us, but if they tell you otherwise, they are just being lazy. Stand up for your rights and demand delivery.

Visit:

http://www.postalemployeenetwork.com/carrier-duties.htm

I draw your attention to the last full paragraph. Stop by and have a chat with your post master with this document in hand. It's their rules, not ours. They need to do their job just like everyone else.

Pete (who is waiting for the day when I schedule home pick up for 80 68# boxes!!!!)

[rockrat]

I warned my delivery guy to be on vacation soon. He said he didn't have any trouble with the packages, its the know-it -all at the sorting facility that causes problems. They tried to get extra postage on my last buy from someone on the site, more than the stuff costs. Told them nope, they could just send it to the dead letter office, I wasn't paying.
Finally got it.

[grages]

I warned my delivery guy to be on vacation soon. He said he didn't have any trouble with the packages, its the know-it -all at the sorting facility that causes problems. They tried to get extra postage on my last buy from someone on the site, more than the stuff costs. Told them nope, they could just send it to the dead letter office, I wasn't paying.
Finally got it.

You should file a complaint, They accepted it at the PO, they should deliver it.

[Zbench]

Grages is right. If you call 800-275-8777 (ASK USPS) they will forward you to the complaint line for your area. Not many know this exists, but the postmaster has to account for every complaint that is filed. You could work that into the conversation if you have a renegade postmaster.

My experience is, however, that the postmaster has no problem enforcing the Union's rules, since he/she is not Union and a member of management. They can't do anything unless you complain though. Just go with the job description and the name of the letter carrier and the call tag.

The one time I had to do it, the postmaster told me that the carrier would be there THAT DAY to drop of my package, even though he had already delivered. He did, and also apologized.

I've made it a part time hobby to joust with the PO. I used to be an Army Officer, and I've had mail service all over the world. It always amazes me when I think that the best mail service I ever had was when I was stationed in Korea. The people that operated the APO were not even US Citizens (Korean Contract workers). They did a fantastic job. Sadly, it's been all down hill from there.

Pete

[Zbench]

Timbuck and Jack Stanley, received your payments today. I've been in contact with everyone, and all have made arrangements to close this out.

Pete

[PoorGuy]

Poor Guy,

My local guy tried that jazz. Here is the bottom line up front. If it can be mailed, it can be delivered to your door. It took me printing out the USPS Union employees daily responsibilities and "discussing it" with the postmaster. It clearly states that USPS hourly union employees be able to lift 70 pounds in the daily performance of their work.

Once that document was in hand, and I refused to pick up the packages, low and behold, everything arrives at my front door step. Not to offend any letter carriers among us, but if they tell you otherwise, they are just being lazy. Stand up for your rights and demand delivery.

Visit:

http://www.postalemployeenetwork.com/carrier-duties.htm

I draw your attention to the last full paragraph. Stop by and have a chat with your post master with this document in hand. It's their rules, not ours. They need to do their job just like everyone else.

Pete (who is waiting for the day when I schedule home pick up for 80 68# boxes!!!!)

Great info. I'll see how this next batch goes. Thanks!

[snowwolfe]

If it is not to late I would like one box of this to try. Or if anyone wants to bow out I will buy a box that they spoke for.
Just send a quick PM and I can pay via paypal today. Apoligize as I am new to the "group buy".
Thank you

[Zbench]

Ok guys. IF you want some alloy and IF you can pay by paypal by Sunday night at midnight, you are welcome to post your order here as the others have done. Got to pay via paypal as I want all the finances done by the time I roll to the foundry on Monday.

Once you post, I'll send you a paypal invoice.

Regards,

Pete

[snowwolfe]

Snowwolfe

68 pounds

snowwolfe at @ gci.net

And thank you!

[geargnasher]

Pete, how about moving this to the "closed, waiting on delivery" section ?

Gear

[Zbench]

Today we moved the lead to the foundry to begin the process to convert it into our alloy. I'll be able to give further updates as the week progresses as to when it will be done and when we can begin to ship it out.

I've asked Ken to move this thread to the closed area. Everyone has paid or will pay when they show up to pick up their alloy here in Cleveland.

Stay tuned!

Pete

[geargnasher]

Ok, Pete, you nudged and badgered us 'till we made this happen, what does the foundry have to say after a week?

Gear

[Zbench]

I've got a call in to the foundry to see the latest status. They did have to move our job back, but were still hopeful to get it done this week. My current best estimate is that the schedule I posted earlier has slipped about a week. I'll post an update when I hear more.

Pete

[timbuck]

26 Oct Drop lead off at Foundry (firm)
03 Nov Pick up alloy from Foundry (anticipated)
04-16 Nov Ship Alloy (anticipated)

The shipping time line is compressed, but I have to get it done as I'll be in the Caribbean with the Mrs starting on 17 November.

Are you on target for shipping before you leave for the Caribbean?

[Zbench]

All,

I just spoke to the foundry and they are adding the Antimony today and are going to sweat it in over night. They expect to begin casting it tomorrow, finishing on Monday. There is a chance we will have it Monday, but, Tuesday sounds like the latest it will be in our hands.

As such, we will have plenty of time to get it out the door before I depart. We have the boxes taped, bands cut, everything is ready to go. Today I did a trial run on having the USPS stop and pick up a few packages that shipped today and it worked like a charm. I expect we will be able to have it all shipped out by the end of next week, despite the delay.

Hope this answers questions and concerns. Nothing ever goes as planned, unfortunately.

Pete

[PoorGuy]

Wow! Good to hear and can't wait.

[257 Shooter]

Motivation is a powerful thing.

[Zbench]

To be filled...

[M_Phipps]

Guess you wont need to go to the gym for a while:)

[Zbench]

I just spoke with the foundry, we will be picking up the alloy tomorrow at noon. We'll start shipping out on Thu until it's gone. I fully expect it all will be in the mail by the end of the mail day on Saturday. As you can see, I have everything ready, just need the alloy and I can start shipping.

Pete

[257 Shooter]

Thanks Pete for the update. I am looking forward to casting with this alloy in a new NOE mould. Jim

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the update, Pete.

I had an idea today at work that I wanted to share with everyone:

Those of us who have them, let's take advantage of the opportunity to compare BHN readings of our testers.

I know alloy samples have been shipped around and tested in the past, but this time we will happen to all have the exact same stuff in our possession, so why not save a single ingot and test it periodically as it age hardens and report results here (when this thread is moved to the "results" section).

Pete, it would help if you could participate too, give us the dope with your tester as a baseline, test the stuff before you leave for vacation and again after you return, let us know what your machine thinks.

How many have BHN testers of some sort?


Gear

[257 Shooter]

Gear,

Great idea. I will have to see if I can make a hardness tester.

[Zbench]

In a highly synchronized movement, the 3 ton+ order of custom alloy arrived at the LeadandBrass.com shipping dock around 1330 EST. Boxing operations are beginning! Look out PO, here it comes. :D

[257 Shooter]

I hope that you had your Wheaties this morning! I wish I had the money and room for a ton. I would be set for a while.

[JSnover]

Thanks for the update, Pete.

I had an idea today at work that I wanted to share with everyone:

Those of us who have them, let's take advantage of the opportunity to compare BHN readings of our testers.

I know alloy samples have been shipped around and tested in the past, but this time we will happen to all have the exact same stuff in our possession, so why not save a single ingot and test it periodically as it age hardens and report results here (when this thread is moved to the "results" section).

Pete, it would help if you could participate too, give us the dope with your tester as a baseline, test the stuff before you leave for vacation and again after you return, let us know what your machine thinks.

How many have BHN testers of some sort?


Gear

I'm in!

[bearcove]

I don't have a tester but if you do this I think will follow this and experiment with a few shop made tests and get a baseline. As much variation as the store made testers have...

Got to go scoop the ice cream.

[Rhoa4396]

This is going to be interesting as our 'local' postal carrier doesn't even like delivering stamped letters. This feels like Christmas in November for me [smilie=p: ... my first group purchase. I would imagin there will be very little variation in the allow so this might be a chance for me to make my own hardness tester and use this alloy to 'calibrate' it based on other peoples readings.

Ken

[257 Shooter]

Pete,

CVS Pharmacy has the heated back wraps and Doan's Pill on sell this week. After 3 tons of lead I thought you could use a little help.

Jim

[Zbench]

All,

I gave my Popeye sized forearms a rest this morning and had time to do some analytical work on the alloy as it relates to hardness.

I tested two different ingots with my Rockwell tester and measured the results. Each test consisted of 4 readings using a 12.7 mm carbide ball and 100 KgF.

The results are 13.22 and 13.04 The average of all the readings is 13.1

As a sanity test, I used the formula published various places and calculated the hardness at 12.86

These results are without water dropping, and they will likely get harder as the alloy is only a few days old. I'm personally kind of surprised that it is this hard. Folks that want to use this for rifle after water dropping should have no problems, and for general use in pistol, it should be fine as is.

Will be interested in what everyone comes up with. Gear, great idea to use this to 'calibrate' all the testers out there.

Regards,

Pete

PS. First batch will ship tomorrow, some on Sat and the balance on Monday. Check the thread at the beginning to see your status....will change the color of those which have shipped.

[snowwolfe]

Can't wait to see how you packaged the boxes so they don't bust open! The out of shape dude who delivers my packages is gonna poop a brick when he carries it up my stairs:)

[686]

make you a lable to put on 2 sides. VERY HEAVY . they will even pick it up at your plave if you do it on line.

[Zbench]

Our packing system is second to none. You may want to step back and admire it before ripping it open. We've shipped our Lyman #2 all over the country, and no reports of problems have come up.

Pete

[geargnasher]

Thanks for posting pics and such, Pete, very cool to see part of the process.

Bh of ~13 after 3-4 days for that alloy is about what I'd expect, and it will probably top out at about 14.5 in another week. The arsenic helps speed up the air-cooled hardening rate considerably, then the toughness comes from the intermetallic 4% Sb/Sn bond, and a pinch more hardness comes from the crystal structure of the remaining 2% Sb. I would wager that this will water drop (from larger moulds) to about 22 and heat treat even harder if desired.

I can't wait!

Gear

[Zbench]

All,

Just a quick update. I shipped 26 boxes today, 31 go out tomorrow, and the remainder on Monday. It's been a tiring process, but everyone should have their alloy by the end of next week, some perhaps as soon as Monday.

Pete

[bearcove]

Got three emails from PO. Alloy is on the way.[smilie=w:

[dominicfortune00]

Picked mine up last Thursday night!

Pete is a great guy to do business with!

[Down South]

I also got a couple email from the USPS, one stating that the packages had shipped. Lets see if my local letter carrier will deliver. A couple times they have left me a notice to come pick up. With my limited time at home I really don't have time to do that. (PO is 20 miles from house). With the info in this thread about what the post office is supposed to deliver, a phone call may be in order.

[Down South]

Zbench, I just noticed that you have me listed on the first page as ordering 1-68 lb box when I actually ordered and paid for two 68 lb boxes. I'll see when the mail runs.

[Zbench]

All,

The last 18 boxes go in the mail tomorrow. Some may get their lead on Monday. It's been and interesting couple of days...I still can't believe that we shipped 5500# of lead through the mail!

Pete

[Zbench]

Gents,

All the boxes are in the mail. If there are issues or problems, I won't be able to respond most likely until I am back on 26 Nov. If you don't get your lead by the end of the week, that doesn't mean that it's not coming. I sent a shipment of 5 boxes of .45 ACP recently and 4 arrived when they were supposed to, and one arrived about 2 weeks later. Not sure where it was all that time, but it eventually made it in fine shape.

The post office reports that they literally never lose a package when you print it online, although sometimes things do get misplaced.

Please post here when your order arrives and the condition it was in. If you can post a picture of the box(es) as they arrived, it would greatly help me for next time on issues with the packaging.

Enjoy the lead and I will enjoy reading all of your reports.

Pete

[Ctkelly]

Got mine today!

[Mallard57]

Mine's here, everything is intact but the boxes have some broken seams. It's all good.
Jeff

[Jack Stanley]

I found two very heavy little boxes on the porch today when I got home from work . I'm betting the postman was glad he doesn't get those every day . Now all I need is a couple of molds from the group buys and a little time .

Jack

[bearcove]

Got mine. Boxes were still whole w/ seams on corners busted on some.

[JMN322]

Box arrived in great condition, and the Postman delivered it! Let the casting begin!

[Zbench]

The 31 boxes I shipped on Saturday should start arriving tomorrow. Rockrat, 15 of those are yours! :)

[John D]

My 4 boxes arrived today safe and sound.
Great job on the packaging!

Thanks!

[geargnasher]

Got mine! One box had a couple of busted seams but it's all there including the bonus gift, Thanks Pete!

Ok gang, here's my initial bh readings, average of three dimples on the as-cast clean bottom of a random puck: 11.8 with my Lee tester. I'm estimating this alloy was born on or before the 9th, so that makes it at least a full week old. Pete calculated readings with his tester at 12.86 4 days ago. I compared my tester to a Cabin Tree reading of the same sample a few weeks ago and mine tested 1 full tick softer than his, I'm beginning to think the spring in mine is a touch too strong.


Enjoy your vacation, Pete, I gotta go get ready to fly on a B-17 tomorrow morning!

Gear

[timbuck]

I got mine at 1:30 pm on Monday.
Box in good shape.
Well strapped and a tube of WLL red premium cast boolit lube.
Looks good, thanks.

[foxtrotter]

Mine arrived today. Mail carrier inserted it into my 1 and 1/2 mailbox. My wife stopped to pick up the mail and slid it out; when it went past the balance point it fell and hit the ground, taking the door of the box off! Box hung together real well!!

[Down South]

Mine made it to the post office yesterday. My wife got a phone call early yesterday morning from the PO saying there was no way they could deliver. My mail carrier is a woman and she is not able to lift the boxes. I called the PO back and questioned them about their not delivering. The Post Master was very nice and sort of pleaded for someone, anyone to come pick the packages up; that there was no way the mail carrier could handle it. Sooooo, I said OK and I will swing by Friday and pick them up myself.

[Zbench]

Guys,

Pleased to hear that the reports from the field are good. Post your measured hardness results. With all the rushing around to get the lead shipped and leave for vacation, I didn't have time to do any water drop experiments.

It was kind of torture to have to leave this morning as my .40 Miha mould arrived last week, and my .45 mould arrived yesterday...no time to try them out!

Pete

[rockrat]

I better warn my carrier about taking the next couple of days off:)

[pb man]

Mine arrived yesterday. Right on the porch by the door. Boxes is excellent shape. I need to thank my female carrier for her efforts. I guess our Virginia carriers are up to USPS physical standards. Thank you Pete, looks like I'll be casting some this week afterall.

[Rhoa4396]

I received a notice with my mail that I wasn't home and they had a package for me. Since I 'was' home and the carrier had just left, I gave the PO a call. They said it was still sitting in the backroom, but I could pick it up. When I asked why they didn't try to deliver it, the clerk said something about it was too heavy for the carrier.
I said "under the last paragraph of the carrier’s job description...."
…and was quickly transferred to the supervisor. The supervisor apologized, said it was a mistake and she’d send someone with it right away. 15 minutes later it arrived in perfect shape.... and thanks for the package inside. WOO_HOO

Ken
===========

[TNshawn]

Received my box today. Great shape, no busted seams. My female mail carrier also brought it to my door. She had a 2nd box of 2k .223 cases so she had a full load. Maybe they grow mail carriers stronger in the South:-P. Also Thank you for the gift.

[257 Shooter]

I received mine yesterday. All three boxes were delivered to the front door. One seam on each box had burst. The way Pete packed them there was little chance that anything would have fallen out. It took longer to get all the strapping undone than anything I have ever received.

[Ed K]

I'm getting ready for my delivery. I have no job at the moment. If I have to speak with the postmaster because my carrier cannot deliver, maybe I should ask for the job :idea:

edit: guess I will not be getting a job at the P.O. - came home yesterday to see my box slid deep into my mailbox. As many are noting, one box corner was split but the lead didn't seem to care.

[KLRrider]

Box arrived today at my door in perfect condition! Ye ha!!!! Excellent job packing guys!!! Thank you for the little extra!
KLRrider

[ClarkEMyers]

3 Boxes today Tuesday 17 November - hit the PO Box at the Post Office this AM per Post Office E-mail picked up this afternoon. Some corner seams somewhat opened up - no issues but also no camera.

[geargnasher]

Received my box today. Great shape, no busted seams. My female mail carrier also brought it to my door. She had a 2nd box of 2k .223 cases so she had a full load. Maybe they grow mail carriers stronger in the South:-P. Also Thank you for the gift.

They DO grow 'em stronger in the south! My Rural carrier is a 25 yr old girl and she stuffed BOTH boxes in my mailbox with the lid open (the 6-5/8" casing post under it held) and my petite 5'4" wife had them both sitting on my reloading bench by the time I got home from work Monday :-D.

Gear

[mikes farm]

I received mine today (Fla). The box was in perfect condition. Mailman put it into a handled tote and left it at my door.
Thanks
Mike

[arcticbreeze]

I got my 2 boxes today. They showed up in perfect shape.

[rockrat]

Got mine yesterday morning. Mailman made a special delivery. About half the boxes were torn open, but don't think anything was missing. Mailman called later, I guess someone was complaining about sending overweight packages at a flat rate and overall just being a #$%&h. He said he had a bet that they were under the limit, so told him what each package should weigh and that the shipper was quite aware of the weight limit. He said "figured you knew the weight limit". Told him "you bet", go collect your winnings

[PoorGuy]

My boxes came today. Usually I receive a slip in the mail telling me to pick them up at the annex, but to my surprise they were sitting at the top of my very steep driveway. The carrier must have taken the time to actually drive up this time.

Both boxes had a split in one of the corners, but the boxes were packed so well that there was no problem. Thanks for doing such a great job with the packing and thanks also for the lube goodies.

[Vic@leadandbrass]

Im glad to see they are arriving in acceptable shape. there is no doubt that a 70# box is going to get mishandled by the PO. However, Pete has designed our packing system so that the box is a mere formality. a split corner has no real effect on the overall integrity of the shipment.

im also glad that you guys appreciate the lube we threw in. we have greatly appreciated the warm welcome in this community and just wanted to throw in a little extra. its something we hope to do in all successful future group buys.

cheers!
Vic

PS- anyone for 3-tons of Lyman #2?!? ;)

[20nickels]

Just got mine, 8 strips of 5 ingots, one strip of ingots busted in three, but all there. Been meaning to try this lube. Tks!

[JSnover]

Got mine today, thanks!!

[kirb]

mine made it to Idaho today looks great post office said it's weight was 68lbs 15 oz every thing was great.

kirb

[geargnasher]

cheers!
Vic

PS- anyone for 3-tons of Lyman #2?!? ;)

Only if it's really cheap!

(psst, you could sell it to us for 50 cents/lb while Pete is vacationing and you could tell him the Zombies must have stolen it):kidding:

You know we'd all back you up on that ;-)[smilie=1:

Gear

[JSnover]

All,

I tested two different ingots with my Rockwell tester and measured the results. Each test consisted of 4 readings using a 12.7 mm carbide ball and 100 KgF.

The results are 13.22 and 13.04 The average of all the readings is 13.1

As a sanity test, I used the formula published various places and calculated the hardness at 12.86

These results are without water dropping, and they will likely get harder as the alloy is only a few days old. I'm personally kind of surprised that it is this hard. Folks that want to use this for rifle after water dropping should have no problems, and for general use in pistol, it should be fine as is.

Will be interested in what everyone comes up with. Gear, great idea to use this to 'calibrate' all the testers out there.


Ok,
One week after casting, I tested two ingots at two points and came up with an average 15.2 bhn with my Lee tester.

[Vic@leadandbrass]

Only if it's really cheap!

(psst, you could sell it to us for 50 cents/lb while Pete is vacationing and you could tell him the Zombies must have stolen it):kidding:

You know we'd all back you up on that ;-)[smilie=1:

Gear

hahahaha, im normally the one busting on Pete for going too cheap!!!

[snowwolfe]

Very impressed with the packaging! My one box arrived today in Alaska and not even a rip in the box.
Thank you.
Hope we can do this again soon.

[dominicfortune00]

PS- anyone for 3-tons of Lyman #2?!? ;)

I'll take part of that action.

[Down South]

I went by the PO and picked mine up today. The boxes were in perfect condition. I tested a couple of the ingots with my Cabin Tree and got a 14 bhn on every test. I figure water dropping and aging will increase the bhn considerably.
Thanks for the lube. It’s exactly what I’ve been using for a while now. I added it to my stock pile.

[Zbench]

All,

Even though I'm on vacation, couldn't stay away. :) Did everyone get all their lead? Any problems? I'll consider it a smashing success if everyone has already gotten their order delivered.

Pete

[Rhoa4396]

I don't know about the others, but I'm sure happy.

Ken
----

[rockrat]

How much for the #2?

[Zbench]

Too early to say....all depends on what Tin and Antimony prices do over the next few months. Lyman #2's price is very dependent on the price of those two additives since they are present in large amounts.

Pete

[geargnasher]

Reporting in, retested the bottom of the same test ingot I checked previously, now reads exactly 12.5 with my Lee tester. I think the original ingots are nearing max hardness.

So far original ingots test:

Down South.....(Cabin Tree).....14
JSNover...........(Lee)................15.2
Geargnasher....(Lee)................12.5 (Mine showed readings lower than a Cabin Tree before)



Vic, can you give us a fresh reading?

Gear

[Zbench]

Gear,

Will have to wait until I return on Thursday....the tester is at my place.

Pete

[JSnover]

Reporting in, retested the bottom of the same test ingot I checked previously, now reads exactly 12.5 with my Lee tester. I think the original ingots are nearing max hardness.

So far original ingots test:

Down South.....(Cabin Tree).....14
JSNover...........(Lee)................15.2
Geargnasher....(Lee)................12.5 (Mine showed readings lower than a Cabin Tree before)



Vic, can you give us a fresh reading?

Gear

Knowing the Lee tester has its quirks, I was still confident since I've been testing my boolits and ingots for about a year now and have gotten consistent readings. Today I tested another ingot from the same batch and got 11 bhn. If anything. I expected the numbers to be a little higher or about the same. I'll do a few more tomorrow. I wonder if it could be a simple matter of different cooling rates; maybe some were poured into a cold mold, others into a much hotter one. I'm also thinking they'll age to a more uniform hardness at some point.
Either way I'm happy to have a good, clean alloy with a known composition to play with. Thanks again, Pete!

[geargnasher]

Tested again tonight, same ingot, 13 exactly, so still getting harder. I too have my suspicions about mould temp, I may do a multiple ingot test as well in a few days.

Gear

[Down South]

I tested another ingot with the Cabin Tree yesterday morning and got a low 15 bhn.

[Zbench]

All,

I tested an ingot yesterday using the Rockwell method I developed. The test involved a 12.7mm tungsten ball and 100 KgF. The result was a reading of 13.6 BHN which is .5 BHN more than the first reading I took.

I'd be interested in readings people are getting while water dropping. I may get some time to do those tests today.

Pete

[Zbench]

All,

Now that the group buy is complete, and we are settling in for the holidays to get some time to use some of the alloy, I wonder if I could appeal to you all to post some feedback about the product and the process?

As you probably know, reading other's experience before purchasing can be all that is required to make the sale. While it does take time to go back and post it, we'd appreciate it if those who have a login can go back and post a review.

Just visit the product page located here (http://leadandbrass.com/zencart2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=214), and click on the post review link at the bottom of the page. It will prompt you to login and you can then post your thoughts on our alloy.

Thanks in advance!

Pete

[Tazman1602]

Hey anybody got any results to post with this? I'm looking at buying a bunch of this and would really like to hear from you................as I'm sure the vendor who went to a bunch of trouble to get this made would. No disrespect intended.

Many Thanks,

Art

[geargnasher]

The box was full (~60 lbs) after the first session, most of those are now making sure my boolit traps don't blow away.

Gear

[Groo]

Groo here
First this stuff is CLEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It makes SILVER BOOLETTS Too much snow to shoot yet..
I can see right now 'I NEED MORE"
When is the next buy???????????????????????????????/