help needed for light loads

[Kragman71]

Hello,
I've been way for awhile,due to a medical problem,but now,I'm back.
I need to develope some light loads with my 1903 Springfield for a military shoot.
I have Red Dot and 4227,as well as( Bullseye;which I see no loads for my 30'06).
In the past,I've made and fired thousands of light loads with various fillers.However,the paranoia that pervades the Web has stopped me from using any filler with a load that has a powder charge less then 50% of case capacity.
I am asking for help.
Does anyone out there currently usea filler in a load with such a small charge of powder?
Does anyone out there have a suggested load with Bullseye powder in a 30'06 cartride?
Thanks;the match is in two weeks.
Frank

[David R]

13 grains Red Dot, kicks ***. what ever weight boolit under 200 grains. No filler required. Check for vertical stringing at 100 yards. It works in my 1917 enfield.

Have a blast
David

[SharpsShooter]

My Lyman 45th edition shows loads for 190gr to 213gr gas checked boolits for 4227 20gr to 28gr should yeild 1600 to 2000fps.

Red Dot would be the better choice for a lighter load for any boolit ranging from 120gr plinker to the heavier 190gr. Data starts at 10gr and peaks out 15gr for the lighter boolits of the 120gr to 150gr range. Heavier boolits require you to reduce the max to 13.5gr

[redneckdan]

i shoot 5 grains of red dot with a 170gr lee sans gascheck with a wad of dryer lint as filler. works great for me.

[Kragman71]

Thanks for the quick reply;but I was hoping to get some input on using Bullseye powder in he 30'06.It is not mentioned in any manual that I have.
Just maybe thre is a good reason it is not mentioned.
Frank

[Bucks Owin]

I'm not crazy about fillers myself, I'd rather use wads in straight cased rifle and pistol cartridges. Much less messy and cumbersome.

I make 1/8" cork wads from material used for lining the drawers of tool chests. (If you happen to be a trucker, you'll find stacks of it used as a "non-skid" sheet for use under rolls of paper etc if you ever find yourself hauling same.)

Simply sharpen an old case with your chamfer tool, drill out the primer pocket so you can insert a small dowel to punch out the finished product and then you can make hundreds of snug fitting wads in very little time....

I use them as both "over powder" wads and sometimes as "under boolit" wads....

It's prudent to reduce powder charges slightly until you work out a load. After all, you ARE changing the capacity of the case.....

FWIW,

Dennis :Fire:

[35remington]

An excellent light load for the .30-06 is the Lee C113F and 8.0-9.0 grains Bullseye, or 9 grains Red Dot, W231 or 700X. This is really a 100 yard load, and velocities for the 9 grain charges are in the vicinity of 1550 fps. Accuracy is noticeably better than when heavier charges of, say, 13 grains of Red Dot are used with the light bullet.

As long as the powder doesn't shift around really radically, like all of it near the bullet, fillers aren't needed with the above mentioned loads. Some powders are more position sensitive than others, though. Even "position insensitive" powders can react to extremes in powder positioning. If you do need filler for some loads, filling the entire space between bullet and powder with dacron is the best solution, IMO. I've tried various types, including the various shotshell buffers and a variety of other materials, but the infinite shelf life and extreme cheapness of dacron have won me over. I'm a bit leery of a wad if it leaves airspace between the wad and the bullet.

I'm not worried about the exact volume dacron fills as a percentage of case capacity, even with very light loads. However, shotshell buffer can be dangerous if it is used with very light powder charges, as not all of the buffer may be blown out of the case upon firing. Some may also remain in the barrel with the very lightest "squib" loads using, say, 5 grains Red Dot with a 32 ACP cast lead roundnose bullet.

Red Dot can work for the heavier 180-200 grain cast bullets, depending upon how finicky (or responsive) your rifle is to higher pressures with fast burning powders. Usually I do better with the slower burning "cast bullet" powders, but you never know until you try.

[sundog]

Hey Frank, glad you're back, and now that you mention it, yes, you've been gone. Too long. Sure glad you're in a shootin' mood. Before Felix put me on to N120 (almost out and kain't afford the newer high prices!) my accuracy load was any 180ish boolit and 21.0/IMR4227. Won quite a few matches with that load, and that'll be what I go back to when the N120 runs out.

btw, did y'all (that's Okie for you'ns) know that Hodgdon - from what I heard - is discontinuing H4227. This is after their buy out of IMR last year. I guess whatever is on the market is the last of it. Anyone know any different?

If'n yer kinda wonderin' what to say to include everybody, well, that'd be 'all y'all'.

If I was told that I could only have one powder for the rest of my life for '06 and cast boolits it'd be IMR 4227. sundog

btw, I just bought my first ever 5744 (from the nice folks at Powder Valley) and haven't even tried it yet, but some folks are sold on it, too. One of these days, I'll test it and post a range report. Should be real close to the 4227 flavors.

[willwork4ww]

Sundog-
I have heard the same regarding H-4227. Seems Hodgdon discovered IMR's version had been outselling theirs by a considerable margin and they just decided to drop it. It has become my favorite .44 mag powder so I have been scrounging all I can find. I've managed 13 more pounds since I found out. In truth the IMR might be just as good, I've never tried it as I like the idea of Hodgdons being an Extreme powder, more temperature stable.

[Kragman71]

Hello,again,and many thanks to y'all
35 Rem answered all my questions very well.i had some tentative loads written up to make but will cancel them and try his ASAP.
Sundog,et al
I had a pinched nerve in my neck;everything dead below.I had to have two attendants turn me in bed,twice each night,because I could not sleep on the spine.The operation was there.
It was a long trip from Jan '05 to now.
We are allowed a foreend rest for the 100 and 200 yds, match,so I can handle it pretty well.The 50 yd is elbow rest,and that is where i need to practice.
Offhand at 25 yd;I'll use my GI Carbine(it's allowed)
I have a lot of Bullseye on hand,and see no pistol shooting,as yet,in my future.
Frank

[Bass Ackward]

Yep. With the advent of buying IMR and intorducing Lil'Gun, there is a log jam at that burn rate range that dealers say they only have so much room for on the shelves. So H4227 is going into history.

[Kragman71]

Hello,once again
I tried those recommended loads. The 118 grain bullet Friday and the 175 grain bullet yesterday.
The small bullet was pretty much a failure,but substituting the same charges with the larger bullet was a pleasent suprise.
8.0 gr Bullseye gave a 5 shot group at 50 yards of 7/8 inch. the 9.0 gr load gave a 1 inch group.That's comparable with my long-standing cast bullet load with 4198 powder.
Keep up the good work
Frrank

[cherok9878]

Not to steal the thread, but in response to the H-vs-IMR, 4227, I have used IMR 4227 in the .44, exclusively, for the last 25 + - years. Many Deer have given their all to the S&W 29 and Ruger carbine "steel butplate". Accuracy is outstanding with the Ruger, often with a 5 shot group at 50 yds that is one ragged hole. WW & Federal cases, HOrnady 240gr J-word Hollow point with 22 gr IMR 4227. I am not saying that this load will work in every weapon but it performs admirably in my less than state of the art weapons <IMHO>..........larry

[Greg]

Kragman-

two different loads that I have (well, I still use them) used ;


30-06

7.5 grains Bullseye...PLEASE REDUCE TO START - to maybe 5 grains or so

¼ sheet toilet paper (unused) pushed down onto powder

National 95 grain .312 SWC 2.765 oal not crimped

Winchester Large Pistol primer

2283 chronographed fps: plenty fast but a great off hand practice load. This load will not foreshorten your brass. I’m not sold on that velocity but that was the ave for a string of five.


30-06

11 grains Red Dot

¼ sheet toilet paper (unused) pushed down onto powder

Lyman 311359 120 grain @ .311 2.960 oal not crimped

Remington 9½ Large Rifle primer

1675 estimated fps: This load will foreshorten your brass, and of course create excessive head space in your brass. Brass life will be shortened. Try a larger diameter boolit and a pistol primer.