cast boolit powder ?

[XWrench3]

so, i have a couple of powders that i am using for my cast rifle boolit ventures, but they are some that i have had laying around for a while, which is good, i get to use them up. but i am wondering, why is cast boolit powder so much different than jacketed bullet powder? is it because it burns to hot, thus melting the lead? to much pressure, deforming it? both? or something else entirely? just curious as to why i will soon have to go out and buy more powder!! :killingpc thanx!

[armyrat1970]

so, i have a couple of powders that i am using for my cast rifle boolit ventures, but they are some that i have had laying around for a while, which is good, i get to use them up. but i am wondering, why is cast boolit powder so much different than jacketed bullet powder? is it because it burns to hot, thus melting the lead? to much pressure, deforming it? both? or something else entirely? just curious as to why i will soon have to go out and buy more powder!! :killingpc thanx!

Neither of the above. Almost any powder that you use for jacketed boolits can be used for cast boolits. Loading with cast is a little different than jacketed but it just takes a little experimentation. Check your loading manuals and you will see.

[joeb33050]

I shoot cast bullets slow, for a lot of reasons.
CBs are much cheaper than jacketed.
Low Velocity = LV = less recoil.
LV = less barrel wear = guns last forever, almost.
Small powder charges are cheaper than large charges.
If LV is the goal, faster powders in small quantities are the recipe.
Slow powders work in larger charges at higher pressure. Fast powders work at smaller charges at lower pressure.
Unique is the best first choice LV powder. It is almost never the most accurate, but is accurate in any cartridge from 22 Hornet to 45-70.
If you want to shoot at HV, for long range or to hunt or ???, then use slower powders.
IMR4895 and IMR4831 work for many cartridges at HV.
joe b.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

While Armyrat1970's assertion is largely true, you can get into trouble with some powders. Trying to reduce below suggested starting loads can result in unexpectedly high secondary pressures which can disassemble your firearm.

Unique and 2400 are very useful powders for cast loads in both rifles and pistols.
IMR SR-4759 works great for reduced loads in rifles.
Bullseye has been extremely popular for many years with .38 Spl, .357 Mag and .45 ACP pistol target shooters. As it is a very fast powder, it's best to use in light to moderate loads.
4895 is a very versatile rifle powder. You can safely reduce maximum loads to 60% as a starting point.

[armyrat1970]

While Armyrat1970's assertion is largely true, you can get into trouble with some powders. Trying to reduce below suggested starting loads can result in unexpectedly high secondary pressures which can disassemble your firearm.

Unique and 2400 are very useful powders for cast loads in both rifles and pistols.
IMR SR-4759 works great for reduced loads in rifles.
Bullseye has been extremely popular for many years with .38 Spl, .357 Mag and .45 ACP pistol target shooters. As it is a very fast powder, it's best to use in light to moderate loads.
4895 is a very versatile rifle powder. You can safely reduce maximum loads to 60% as a starting point.

And that is why I stated it takes experimentation and checking your load manuals. Compare your charges for different powders for a different type boolit. Be it jacketed or cast. Many powders will work for both. Unique is one that can be used for both handgun and rifle cast boolits. May not be the best or give the best performance, but it will work with a number of different calibers.

[Bret4207]

I'm not sure what you mean by "cast powders". As the guys said, most any powder can be used in a cast load of some type. The easy way to shoot cast is low and slow and many are content to stay at 13-1600 fps. I'll readily admit much of my plinking is done at those speeds and things like Red Dot, Green Dot, 2400, Unique and some of the other shotgun type powders work very well in that range. When you up the speed you go slower to stretch the pressure curve out. It's not the "because it burns too hot, thus melting the lead". Lead doesn't "melt" in our shooting, there simply isn't time for that to happen. It does get abraded, deformed, atomized...use what ever word you want to describe what you see when you throw a rock in a mud puddle (my analogy, not the best, but it works) Anyway, when you stretch out the pressure you give the boolit an easier start, more like what you give with those faster powders in smaller quantities and you don't tend to push the boolit beyond what it can handle, yet you still give it more of a boost out the barrel.

Laymans terms I realize, I'm sure it lacks something from a more technical perspective, but it gets the idea across.

[cbrick]

XWrench3,

Would be much easier to give you better, more accurate answers if we knew what caliber, boolit and velocity you’re aiming for.

As for melting the lead . . . not a chance. Lead absorbs heat very slowly and the micro second it's exposed to the heat of burning, expanding gases could not possibly melt off any lead. If it could how is it that paper and plastic shotgun wads don't even singe much less melt or burn?

Deforming is a possibility but within a reasonable velocity range proper bullet fit cures many problems. Rather than "deforming" a bullet base a poor fit will allow expanding gases to blow past the sides of the boolit acting much like an acetylene torch cutting steel.

I’ll second 4759 as an outstanding mid velocity rifle powder. It is very accurate in my 308, 7-08, 30-30, 7mm BR and more.

Rick

[GLynn41]

cast bullet powders--most of the shotgun powders- work well herco, 700x, 800x-- and the new clays, universal etc --depends on what your cartridge is // what you want i know that 800x can be mild or pretty hot it goes up or down pretty well

[joeb33050]

Here are some other comments.
Unique thrown charges vary a lot, to the point where accuracy can be improved by dribbling into a scale pan. But, for most use, throw the charges, let them vary, it won't make a lot of difference.
SR4759 is one of the most accurate powders .38 caliber and above. It has some funny characteristics.
1. It commonly "bridges" in some powder measures, throwing a low charge, then a high charge. Here's one example:
"While charging cases with SR4759 using a Lyman 55 powder measure on 10/16/04, I had two instances of the powder not all coming out of the measure after flicking the knocker. This is two out of eighty-eight cases charged. I didn't measure the first instance. Note that this has happened many times in the past, 10/16/04 was the first time I ever measured what happened.
In the second instance, the measure dropped 5.6 grains of powder into the scale pan after flicking the knocker
After operating the handle and flicking the knocker again, the measure dropped 21.7 grains of powder into the scale pan. The powder that didn't come out before came out then. The desired charge was 14 grains of SR4759."I have more.
There are ways to fix the powder measure, involving drilling out the nozzle or using a larger one, so the bridging stops.
2. SR4759 needs to be dribbled and weighed for the best accuracy, it doesn't throw through a measure consistently at all.
3. As you work up loads, SR4759 will leave a lot of unburned powder in the barrel, easy to see. Increasing the charge may/will make the unburned powder go away. Unfortunately, some reports are that loads WITH the unburned powder are most accurate.

"Better" powders, LV charges, are IMR4227 or AA#9. These meter accurately through the measure and work just great.

A5744 is a good-working LV powder, but measures poorly and needs to be dribbled for best accuracy.

I use them all and look in the cases with a flashlight before seating the bullets!!!!
joe b.

[XWrench3]

well, i am shooting 45/70 , 30-30, and 300 win mag in my rifle dept. i also have a .223 rem, but i am not shooting cast through that , yet. i dont know if i will or not. with my eyes, and those tiny little bullets, i am not so sure how well i would do making them. plus, making two 22 caliber boolits at a time, would take forever to make a pile of them. anyway, i am used to shooting full power loads through all odf my stuff. i actually enjoy recoil, to a certain extent. honestly, i do not enjoy wide open full tilt as hot as it will go from either my 300 win mag, or the 45/70 all that much. i do like to come home from shooting, with my shoulder sore. i just don't really care to have that happen in 2 or 3 shots! so, i am used to running imr 4198, and imr 4831. it is almost all i have ever bought for the 2 big rifles. i use imr 3031 in the 30-30. every time i flip open a reloading manual, i see things that look like shotgun (or brands i have no knowledge of) powders listed, and i do not load shotgun shells, so it is strange stuff to me. occaisionally, i see a powder that looks familiar, but that is really not that often. some of my reloading manuals (i have 7) dont have much, and some have no data for cast boolits. i usually go to my lyman cast manual first, i guess i just have the wrong everything here, because i just do not find much that matches what i have in my cupboards (between powder, and boolit weights i have). i am not much into trying to make up my own loads with no data. i had a problem once (i made a mistake reading the manual) that scared me pretty good, so if it isn't in a book, it is not going into my shells. i did buy some imr sr4759, and 700x. i will have to make a list and buy some other powders along with the imr 3031 that i ran out of. i have not been shooting cast rifle stuff very long at all. i am still in the expeimental aspect of everything (cast) rifle. the pistols, for about a year and a half. until then, every shot i ever fired, was a jacketed round, except my 22's and pelet guns. i am just old, and it takes me a while to aclimate i guess. if it wasn't for the obamination thing, i may have never smelted one boolit of my own. but as it turns out, i am glad i did. i find this very interesting, and fun. and i have found a bunch of good helpfull people that i did not even know existed several months ago! thanx to all!

[HORNET]

Well let' see..The 3031 will take the .30-30 up to full throttle with cast, although 4198 might group a little better with lighter loads. Either one will take the .45-70 up to where your shoulder quits, again 4198 might do better with lighter loads/ lower boolit weights. The 300 mag is going to be a challenge with cast in any event, LOTS of excess boiler room. Any of them have a good chance of doing fairly well with the SR-4759
The .223 might do well with cast but might be better left until you have more experience with loading & shooting cast. Some apparently feel that cast .22's are best left to the insane (either you are when you start or they make you that way. Been using them for years).
Lots of loading data available on here, look at some of the other forums like "cast loads for military rifles", "cast loads: your favorite cartridge', and Wiljen's Reloaders Reference (on CastPics, IIRC).
If all else fails, you can search or just ask, LOTS of enablers on here [smilie=w: :twisted:

[1Shirt]

Just my two cents. If I had to have powder(s) for only cast shooting, it would start with 2400, followed by Unique, followed by 4759. Beyond that, I would in sequence go with Red Dot (because of Ed Harris and "the Load), and then to
3031. Being old and cheap, I like the fact that I can drive lead at 1200-2000 fps with 13-20 grains of the faster burning pdrs. However that said, they require far more attention to safety loading processes than the slower burning powders.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Thumbcocker]

My limited experience in cast rifle loading is that the powsers that work well have a specific velocity or pressure range. My go to powder is 4759, but after 1800 fps of so I go to slower powders. I have gotten good accuracy at 2000fps from acww with AA3100 and 8700. Col Harrison in the origional NRA cast boolit book talked about the velocity and pressure ranges of powders. Mr. Lee in his cast boolit manual has a section on pressure that makes sense to me and is in line with my VERY limited experience. It seems that the powder has to match the pressure.