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View Full Version : Need load data: 170 gr. LSWC and 357 mag



Jal5
09-16-2009, 07:09 PM
I plan to use these on deer, range no more than 40 yds., out of a S&W M66, 6" SS. I have searched my Lee, Speer, and Hornady books without any recipes plus I looked on the Hogdons and Alliant websites. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I have bullseye, titegroup, and unique available.

thanks.

Joe

USSR
09-16-2009, 07:42 PM
Jal5,

13.5gr 2400 powder with standard SP primer.

Don

Papa smurf
09-16-2009, 09:07 PM
USSR ,your on the money with 13.5 --2400. Been using this load since 1967. IT never let me down if I did my part. Good Shooting----------------Papa Smurf

SierraWhiskeyMC
09-17-2009, 02:54 AM
Joe,
IMHO, Bullseye is too fast for that heavy a boolit. You won't be able to get good velocity without excessive pressures.

From Lyman #45 reloading handbook (1970), for a 168gr cast boolit (Lyman 358429, #2 alloy):
13.0gr of 2400 is max load, 1180fps. Starting load is 11.0gr @ 1010fps.
7.0gr of Unique is max load, 1157fps. Starting load is 4.0gr @ 739fps.
4.0gr of Bullseye is max load, 893fps. Starting load is 3.0gr @ 739fps.
10.0gr of Herco is max load, 1324fps. Starting load is 7.0gr @ 1073fps.
14.5gr of IMR4227 max load, 1212fps. Starting load is 9.5gr @ 772fps.

The lowest SD was obtained using Unique.

Test firearm was a S&W model 27, 5" bbl, 1:18-3/4" twist, .356" grooves.
Cases: Remington, Primers: Rem 5-1/2

I threw the Herco load in due to the velocity.
I've used IMR4227 myself, but only up to 158gr J-word bullets and lead boolits with a different load; they were accurate. I like to use powders that have a wide margin between min and max loads when I'm looking for maximum velocity.

Use at your own risk. Good hunting!

woody1
09-17-2009, 03:41 PM
IMO you need to be VERY careful with that load of Herco. I think it's too high. Just my opinion based on other data.
FWIW, I'm using 13 grains of IMR 4227 with a 190 grain boolit for ~1420 fps out of an 18" carbine.
Regards, Woody

TCLouis
09-17-2009, 09:34 PM
Lyman Cast Manual has this 358429 4" vented test barrell and CCI 550 primer

2400 9.7 879 13.5 1242
4759 9.8 942 13.5 1206
Herco 5.6 885 7.1 1104
I4227 9.8 835 14.5 1233
H110 11.8 1037 15.7 1318

11.8 of H110 was listed as "accuracy" load

As always check the posted numbers against other published load data

swheeler
09-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Of the powders you have listed Unique at 6-7grains and 1k velocity, would be best IMHO. For hunting load I would buy a pound of H110,2400 or LilGun. This was shot in a 4 5/8 RBH, Hercules 2400, Lee SWC 14BN weights 169 grs lubed and checked-12.5-1199,13.0-1270-13.5-1301 with sticky extraction. Lil Gun will beat it in velocity with way less pressure and better accuracy for me, but I am only shooting 14.8 gr LilGun for 1258 fps, excellent accuracy and the brass just falls out of cylinder, no need to push it any harder for me. I'm now trying LilGun with 195 gr GC in same gun, 1200fps is easy, just haven't found the accuracy I want yet.

357Mag
09-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Jal -

Howdy !

For all ( Lyman ) .357' calibre lead SWCs of 158 - 172gr, I have used
14.5gr WW296 & SP Mag primer ( usually CCI ).

Don't think that this is too shallow a recommendation. or that I did not work load refinement well enough. This powder /charge seems to be a " sweet spot " for this wt range of .357" lead SWCS. I shoot only PB SWCs.

It was at one time, the minimum charge recommended by Olin in their small reloading pamphlet. Supposedly, 296 needs to be used in Magnum-strength doses to work well. Boy howdy, does it " work well ". It's " major calibre " power, fer sher.

This load burns clean, has noticeable Mag power, and is not abusive like the max charges of 296 might prove to some.


A second choice is 8gr I4756. It's smokey, but ecconomical & accurate.
A regular SP primer will work OK w/ I4756.


Best of luck in your endeavors.

Regards,
.357Mag

Jal5
10-07-2009, 08:42 PM
SierraWhiskey-
Any COL listed min./max. for those loads? I loaded some with Unique since I have it, but if I don't get good results will get some 2400 for these. Thanks

Joe

Beerd
10-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Joe
use magnum brass and crimp in the crimp groove and you should be OK in your S&W 66
..

Mack Heath
10-10-2009, 02:00 PM
SierraWhiskey-
Any COL listed min./max. for those loads? I loaded some with Unique since I have it, but if I don't get good results will get some 2400 for these. Thanks

Joe

Jal5,

The COL question was a good one. For all the Lyman data with the 358429 in the .357, they use a COL of 1.550. They get that by crimping OVER the front shoulder. They do NOT use the crimp groove. The reason behind this is that the Smith Model 27 they used for testing in the past does not have a cylinder long enough to accomodate the round with the bullet crimped in the crimp groove. The other way to put this is the only way to not exceed the 1.590 SAAMI max length with the 356429 is to crimp over the front shoulder.

In fact if you look closely at their data, the 358429 crimped over the front shoulder in a .357 case has almost exactly the same COL as a .38 Special case crimped in the crimp groove. That is the reason that the Lyman max load of 13.5 grains with 2400 in the .357 is the same one that Skeeter Skelton recommended for years when he used .38 Special cases and crimped in the crimp groove.

Your Model 66 has the long cylinder that will accomodate crimping in the crimp groove. If you do that, you have to add powder just to get back up to the velocity that the shorter COL generates. With the longer length, I have gone up to 14.5 grains without problem. However, if you are planning on using the Lyman data, I would suggest that you use it as is and remember to crimp over the front shoulder of the bullet.

Also, I will +1 on deep sixing the Herco load from the Lyman #45 manual. Ten grain of Herco is way too hot. Use the data from TCLouis with one exception. The latest Lyman manual, the 49th, reduced the H110 max from 15.7 to 15.0 grains

Jal5
10-11-2009, 09:10 PM
I finally got to try these 170 gr. boolits over Unique and the best accuracy at 15 yds. was 3 shots 1 1/8 " with a 4th that was a flyer. That was 6gr. Unique just under the max. load of 7gr. I was pleased with that. Now to see how it does at around 30yds. which would be the maximum distance from the stands I have set up.

Beerd
10-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Mack

Thanks for pointing out the overall length from the Lyman manual. I have always just crimped in the groove provided and gone on my way. The cartridges fit in my 66 Smith and Ruger Blackhawk so I never gave it a second thought.
The Lyman book has a section devoted to the T.C. Contender that gives data for 357 Mag and the 358429 bullet with an OAL of 1.647". Starting and maximum loads are EXACTLY the same as the shorter revolver loadings, presumably to keep people like me who miss some of the details from getting into trouble.
..

357mags
10-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Hey Joe. I load 16.5grs of H110/W296 behind 170gr RNFP gas checked bullets. Awesome and accurate. I was loading 17grs, but load was too hot. Groups were spreading.

Jal5
11-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Tried the same load today @25yds: 170gr. LSWC/6.0gr. Unique. Not impressed with results: about a 5" spread for 8 shots; all center & low 2.5". At 15 yds. this load was a little over an inch for 3 shots + 1 flyer.

I can increase the charge up to 7.0 max with Unique, not sure if that will help though. @15yds 6.5 gr was a bigger group than the 6.0gr. load. Is it worth experimenting with or do I just switch to 2400 as recommended by several people? Thanks.