Fisrt casting today, looky what I did!

[oregonshooter]

Started out too low of temp I think as they were not filling in very well. Is 800deg F too hot? That was 8.5 on the Lee melting pot. They were ladled into the 6 bullet mold.

http://oregonshooter.com/share/first_cast_results.jpg

I made a video of the process, but it is not uploaded yet to youtube.

Video done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0oYfR3Bcd0

[bisley45]

very nice :drinks:

[gon2shoot]

There ya go,:drinks:

[Rockchucker]

Those are some nice looking boolits for sure, I love the round nose boolit in my 1911, it seems to like em alot, cycles great and very accurate.

[oregonshooter]

I just tested one for hardness and got BHN 8.7 is that good enough for a 9mm @ 1200fps ?

[runfiverun]

they will harden up more in a week or so.
warm up your mold to start next time,and keep a good move on.
those look pretty nice.

[oregonshooter]

Thanks r5r, I'll test one in a week to compare. These are just practice ammo for IDPA. My test chart says that 8.7 = 12391psi but I have no idea what that means in FPS :)

At the end I did get a rhythm and did notice that my boolits had a glazed aluminum look on the first two sets after letting the mold cool down.

Nothing like doing to enhance the learning curve!

I sorted out all that didn't look as nice as the bottom row (600+) and threw about 200 back into the pot for next casting session. Is there anything wrong with using those on top that have a good groove but some lines on the outside? Just for practice ammo?

[runfiverun]

if the diameter on them is big enough just rub a bit of lube on them and shoot away.
my girl cast up some god awful looking stuff that sized okay i made her shoot them [trying to teach her a lesson in quality] danged if she didn't shoot a smaller group with those than i did with the good looking ones.
kinda locked me up, what do you tell a teenager after that.

[oregonshooter]

You can't tell a teenager nothin after that LOL!

I didn't realize how many youtube vids are up about casting!!!! found one with common mistakes that explained my "frosty bullet" (had bout 10) being too hot lead, and base divots (another 10 or so) because of throwing the sprue before cooling.

This is addictive for sure. Next step is pan lubing which I'm finding a bunch of cool tricks on now.

[Shiloh]

if the diameter on them is big enough just rub a bit of lube on them and shoot away.
my girl cast up some god awful looking stuff that sized okay i made her shoot them [trying to teach her a lesson in quality] danged if she didn't shoot a smaller group with those than i did with the good looking ones.
kinda locked me up, what do you tell a teenager after that.

I used to cull the non perfect boolits then I saved them for practice and plates. I found there is little difference unless grossly deformed. I would have loaded at least two of those for plate shooting.

Shiloh

[geargnasher]

Oregonshooter, remember that the quality of your boolits depends a lot more on MOULD temp than POT temp. You can jumpstart the process of getting good fillout by dipping the bottom corner of your mould in the melt for 5-10 seconds and then cast like a demon until the sprue takes 5-8 seconds to freeze good. then relax into a steady pace, watching for the signs of poor fillout that indicate the mould has cooled too much, then pick up the pace. If you stop for more than 30 seconds between pours, make sure you cut the sprue and leave the boolits in the mould while you pause to preserve the temp a little longer.

Frosty, dull grey boolits are good! Pan lube sticks to them better and fillout is generally better. Frost indicates the mould was hot enough. Pure lead won't frost, but any mix with antimony and tin will.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

800 degrees is a bit on the warm side, but if it's working for you, stick with it. I usually cast between 650-720 degrees depending on what mold I'm using, but that doesn't mean that you have to.

Don't be too afraid of the frosty boolits. They shoot fine too. They are an indication that you don't want to get any hotter though.

Try to keep your heat down a little lower when you smelt wheel weights into ingots. If you get up in the 800 degree range when you do that, then you run the risk of melting zinc weights into the mix & that will ruin your whole batch.

Nice job on the self improvement, first time out of the gate.:-D You did good.

[hammerhead357]

Oregonshooter ya did good on the last picture. So you are learning, I think the bases of the boolits number 2,3,4 may be a little rounded but it is hard to tell. Just keep trying and it will come around for you.
If you haven't had anyone help you directly you are doing a great job...Wes

[ilcop22]

Nice job on those boolits.

[JIMinPHX]

After looking at your video, I think that you would do better if you used a ladle that has a pour spout on it. They tend to push the lead into the mold a little better in some cases. I also think that you could do better if you didn't cool the mold after each cast. You should not need to do that often at all, if ever. You may need to wait a little longer for the sprue to harden, so you might not cast as fast, but you will probably get better boolit bases.

[chevyiron420]

Good work jim! I would change ladles as well. Some prefer the RCBS style but i like the lyman ladle.

[armyrat1970]

Your first cast from the pics looks like your mold was not up to temps. Your second cast looks very good. But you are casting with a six pounder. Where is the other boolit? I run my temps very hot with my Lee molds. Once my mold is up to temps I find my casting temp at around 850 to 900 to work fine. With WWS. If they come out a little frosted it's no problem. Different molds with different boolit sizes will require different temps.
Not bad at all for your first casting session. You will just get better now. But don't get cocky because you may run into a day where nothing seems to go right. Been there. Done that. It's all fun though, and now you have the addiction!!

[Bret4207]

Pretty good for the first time out. Here's what I'd suggest-

#1- Get a real ladle. That Lee thing makes a decent pot stirrer, but that's about it.

#2- Keep the pot as near full as you can. The lower he alloy level the more temp fluctuation you get.

#3- The bricks you're resting the mould on act as a heat sink. Replace the top brick with a hunk of 2x4. Yes, it'll scorch eventually, but it'll draw less heat away than the brick.

#4- I would fell a lot more comfortable if you were able to take a quick look at the mould faces after dumping the boolits. Just a quick visual for lead smears or other problems on the faces and top. With a Lee aluminum mould you can gouge the top in a couple cycles of the sprue cutter.

All in all I think you're doing great!

[oregonshooter]

Great advise guys, really appreciate it!

If you haven't had anyone help you directly you are doing a great job...Wes
Wes, only help is from reading here and goatlips website. This is the most helpful forum on any topic I've ever been on and I'm on a lot of them. :)

I'm picking up a ladle in a few minutes and going to try again today.

Eventually I plan on getting a bottom pour and using the top dipper to premelt my ingots.

1. No water cooling sprues, 8-10sec wait to cut or whatever the "feel time" is.
2. board not brick for base
3. 800 is OK but I'll try lower with the mold kept hot (ps. I smelted @ 650)
4. pre-heat mold with corner in lead


BIG QUESTION: "How do I know if the stuff on top of the pot is just air cooled lead (not shiny) or needs skimming?"

I think I may be wasting a lot of lead skimming the top whenever it is not shiny silver. I stir it with a stick every now and then and skim the debris afterwards also.

[skeet1]

They sure look a lot better than my first cast.

Skeet1

[sleeper1428]

You're obviously a 'fast study'. Those boolits look great! I've been casting boolits for over 25 years and I'd be happy with any of those last ones. Also, I second the observation that frosted boolits are not a sign that you've done anything wrong, just that the mould is a touch too hot. They shoot just fine and as some have already mentioned, if you tumble lube you'll find that they hold the lube a lot better than nice shiny ones. Personally, I've been using bottom pour pots for so long now that I doubt that I could end up with the results that you've gotten if I were forced to go back to using a ladle. Good job!

By the way, where are you located in Medford? And are you a member of the Medford Rifle and Pistol Club? If not, do you shoot out at the Sportsman's Park? I don't engage in competition, basically due to the fact that my 71 year old eyes just aren't up to the challenge. But I do shoot as often as possible and am a member of the MRPC as well as holding a season pass to the Sportsman's Park ranges.

You're 'hooked' now so enjoy the fun!!

sleeper1428

P.S. - Hey, I just realized that we exchanged a few messages awhile back. At that time I was pretty well laid up secondary to a severe bout of sciatica and you were still waiting for your casting equipment to arrive in the mail. I'm happy to report that due to the work of a good chiropractor and short term high dose steroid therapy the sciatica is now a thing of the past and obviously you got your equipment and are now putting it to good use. If you're interested in seeing an example of my latest castings, check out the .314SP-129gr (SKS/AK) Finished Buy (by SwedeNelson) that you'll find under the Group Buy Results thread heading of the Group Buy section. Had a bit of a problem getting this custom NOE four cavity mould working properly, at least in my old hands, but now I think I've got most of the kinks worked out and it's sure dropping some beautiful boolits!

[rvpilot76]

if the diameter on them is big enough just rub a bit of lube on them and shoot away.
my girl cast up some god awful looking stuff that sized okay i made her shoot them [trying to teach her a lesson in quality] danged if she didn't shoot a smaller group with those than i did with the good looking ones.
kinda locked me up, what do you tell a teenager after that.

Beginner's luck! No two ways about it!

Kevin :-)

[oregonshooter]

LOL, I won't argue with you Kevin! Gonna try out my RCBS bottom pour ladle in a few minutes so we will see how lucky really am.

I got the rest of my setup for pan lubing today also so will try that tonight. The first batch I used ALOX on but not sure how that is gonna work. I'm going to be pushing them through the Lee sizer dies later today.

DOES THE ALOX stay on the bullet after you load them, or should I wipe them off after loading? Seems like a greasy mess for loading into a magazine if I don't wipe them off.

[qajaq59]

Ok, all you Lurkers out there. Go For It.....

Oregonshooter just proved it can be done with a good effort and some paying attention.

Well done Oregonshooter. And welcome to a fun hobby.

[oregonshooter]

Thanks qajaq59, and good advice! I'm going to be writing up my experience from bulk WWs to loaded boolits on my website in the coming weeks for a beginners guide for newbs like myself.

The more tips I hear the better it will be. A lot of good info in this thread already.

[HORNET]

Welcome to the wonderful world of casting. Looks like you've got a good start already. Just watch out for all those enablers in the Group Buy sections....unless you like living on Ramen Noodles.
BTW, the lube stays on the boolit after sizing. I see that you're setting up for pan lubing, which usually has minimal problems. You can wipe off any excess exposed lube after loading but it's not usually necessary. With LLA, there CAN be problems with a shifting seating depth due to a build-up of lube on the seating punch from an overly heavy coat of LLA.

[snaggdit]

Nice job! Can't add much more than others have already. I never used a ladle so can't speak to that (unless you count fishing sinkers, and with a Lee ladle that was a pain). You asked about skimming. The hotter you keep the melt, the faster the tin and lead oxidize on the top. Stirring with a stick will help return much of the oxidation to the mix. From what I have gathered about ladle work, pushing the skim back to scoop buys you time between skimming and the oxidation slows further oxidation. I use LLA a lot on pistol boolits. One light coat then sizing followed by a second light coat. many of my Lee molds drop boolits just a little larger than groove size so I just hit them once with a nornal single coat of LLA and load them up. I used to leave the tips as is, but now typically I use an old washcloth with Lacquer thinner to wipe them clean. Less messy when I use them or store them. I also use that step for quality control on finished rounds (and counting finished rounds).

[oregonshooter]

Hornet,
I'm only going to do the first 600 with ALOX then use pan wax for the rest. I'm assuming that 600 won't be enough to build up for me to have to check OAL on them?

Ran another 600 using the new RCBS dipper (HUGE DIFFERENCE) and kept the pot at ~700deg F but made sure I took little breaks and if I did left the bullets in the mold. Loger breaks I dipped the mold corner to rewarm it.

Worked good! They filled out even better and had more of a "brushed" look but not frosty which seems to make them more consistent at those settings.

Mold temp and consistent rhythm seem to be the most important parts of the process. I also fluxed back (stirred with stick) the pot every 3rd time I added an ingot and skimmed whenever the top coated over which kept the lead shinny and seemed to improve the pouring viscosity through the ladle so I thin k that is a good thing even if I may be going overboard on that.

[oregonshooter]

Cross posted with you snaggdit,
You are on the mark on fluxing and stirring with the ladle I think as it seemed to help me. I'm going to do the same thing as far as cleaning the bullet on final inspection. Thanks.

[armyrat1970]

I guess I am a fanatic about fluxing but I don't feel you can over do it. As far as oxidation on the top of your melt. I use two different things to stop this. One is CFF. The other is dried oak leaves. I have an oak tree in the back yard and my neighbor across the street has many. I always have an unlimited supply of oak leaves around my patio, which is where I cast. At times I will pick up a handful and crush them and throw them on top of the pot. They smoke a bit when burning to ash but form a nice thick layer of ash over the top of the melt and stop most, if not all oxidation.

[HORNET]

You might want to check the overall length every 20 rounds or so when you start to see if it's going to move. It depends on how heavy a coating you used and the boolit design/fit to seating punch. If it looks good for the first few checks, back off to every 50 or so.
You're ladle casting so that eliminates many of the barrier methods of reducing oxidation of the surface (like the oak leaves, crushed charcoal, clean kitty litter, etc). That pretty much has you needing to flux frequently. I've got an old kitchen timer that I 'borrowed' that I usually set at about 20 minutes to remind me. I'm usually running fairly high melt temp.
If you can hold a consistent rhythm, that'll hold a consistent mold temp and give more uniform boolits. I've heard of using a metronome, an old noisy clock, and counting to help get consistent times. Adjust as needed per results. WRITE IT DOWN- so you don't have to develop it all over if you haven't used that particular mold for a while. I keep forgetting.....

[oregonshooter]

More good tips guys! Appreciated. I suppose a light coating of sawdust shavings would do the same as the leaves for a bottom pour when I get one? I work at a particleboard plant and have dry pine shavings year round.

[qajaq59]

About those "dry" wood shavings. Put them on top of the melt, but do NOT push them down into the molten lead or you may get a visit from the tinsel fairy. Believe me they are not always quite as dry as you think they are. And no, I didn't get hurt. but I have a lead coated shirt to remind me not to do that again.

[oregonshooter]

Good point. They are not for fluxing back right, just to make a protective layer on a bottom pour correct?

I was planning on fluxing the pot, then adding a layer on top then skimming it off before adding more molten lead from my secondary pot then adding shavings back on, but maybe that is overkill?

Will have to see how well it prevents oxidizing compared to just stirring with a dry stick between fillups.

[oregonshooter]

Found out the hard way last night that those "bargin" $1.00 pans at the dollar store are not such a bargain when you can't get the cake out!!!!

Picking up some silicon pans today before work.

[fallout4x4]

Found out the hard way last night that those "bargin" $1.00 pans at the dollar store are not such a bargain when you can't get the cake out!!!!

Picking up some silicon pans today before work.


take a magnet to your local salvation army or goodwill store and find steel muffin pans then let them sit outside for a bit and get rusty. no sticking.

[snaggdit]

I think he was referring to pan lubing. I place a sheet of wax paper in the pan before setting up my boolits. Helps with removal.

[wolfman]

Once the lube has set, put the pan in the freezer for about 5 min. The lube cake and boolits should just fall out. Cold lube makes pushing the boolits out of the cake easier too, then just fill the holes with new boolits, reheat, and repeat.

[fredj338]

Great first cast. I set my molds on the edge of my bottom pour pots to warm up as the lead melts. They usually throw perfect bullets after one cast, iron or aluminum. The aluminum molds require a good rythum to keep rejects low. I also use two molds so when one gets too hot, I switch. Leave the cavs filled when switching or place the empty mold back on top of the pot to stay warm.
Good tip on the wood resting pad. I set mine on an old asbestos heat pad on the wood bench.

[oregonshooter]

doh, too late on the pan lubing... I pulled them out sideways today and melted the wax back into the pot.

About 3/4 of the 600 came out with a nice ring, the rest I'm going to lub again in my 2 new silicon backing pans I got today. $12.00 ea though!!!! Glad the wife didn't see the freezer trick before we bought the pans today. :)

I'm making (5) bullet blocks out of 5/8" wood now to hold 100 per backing pan for easy spacing.

[hammerhead357]

I guess that I didn't read that you were ladle casting. The last set of pictures are great boolits for your first time especially if using a Lee ladle. Sorry if I was harsh. I didn't mean to come across that way. I thought you were using a bottom pour pot....Wes

[oregonshooter]

No harshness detected on my end friend. :)

[armyrat1970]

More good tips guys! Appreciated. I suppose a light coating of sawdust shavings would do the same as the leaves for a bottom pour when I get one? I work at a particleboard plant and have dry pine shavings year round.

Oh yeah. They will work fine. But as qajaq59 stated, don't throw them in and start stirring. Let them set on top for a little to get all moisture out. Or preheat the sawdust in a microwave to get the moisture out. If you know you are going to cast tomorrow, dump some in a pan the night before and set it on top of your water heater. The heat will remove the moisture that is the calling card for the tinsel fairy. I also have a lead speckled shirt and a couple of specks on my safety glasses from the tinsel fairy. If you just drop it straight in wait until the sawdust starts burning and turning to ash you can then stir the pot and use it as a flux. After stirring add a little more sawdust and leave the ash sit on the top of the melt. Begin casting. If you add more alloy or rejects to the pot you can drop it right through the ash. If you add more alloy that you haven't already smelted into ingots, you should flux again. When you add more alloy your temps will drop. It helps to have a thermometer to keep your melt at the same temps.