45-70 Where is best accuracy found?

[No_1]

A discussion with "Frank" on another thread has lead to this thread. Seems we need to get an opinion on where the best accuracy is found. Just to keep "Frank" happy, be prepared to post proof of your thoughts.

Robert

[crabo]

Are we talking pistols, rifles, or both? I am particularly interested in guide gun results.

[MtGun44]

My Guide Gun load is 57.0 W748 with a Fed mag primer (probably any
brand would be OK) with the RCBS 405 GC cast from AC WWt and
lubed with LBT blue or 50/50 NRA formula. This runs about 1750
from my SS GG and will consistently do 1.5-2" with a low power
scope or Lyman peep at 100 yds. Same results with Rem or Speer
405 jbullets. Kills well, too.

Brian Pearce reports that this load meets Trapdoor pressure
levels, apparently due to the relatively slow burning powder.

Of course, if you are talking about benchrest accy, this sure isn't
going to win any prizes, but it sure works for a hunting load.

Bill

[No_1]

Pistol or Rifle, does not matter.

Robert


Are we talking pistols, rifles, or both? I am particularly interested in guide gun results.

[Dframe]

My best is about 3-4 inches at 100 yards real old eyes, iron sights, and a cast 405 boolit over 3031. Thats an actual group fired by me. Not one by the majic MOA fairy that often shoots for people.

[part_timer]

My best is about 3-4 inches at 100 yards real old eyes, iron sights, and a cast 405 boolit over 3031. Thats an actual group fired by me. Not one by the majic MOA fairy that often shoots for people.

If someone gets done with their MOA fairy I sure could use it over here at my place. I could use a visit from the casting fairy as well. The kids are shooting up all my hard work. :)

I couldn't give Frank the answers he was looking for. I just shoot what ever shoots the best in the firearms I have. If it is full power loads then so be it. I can't see waisting the powder shooting low pressure loads that won't group.

[No_1]

I understand completely PT. Wherever the best load for me falls is what it is. I do not require .2 accuracy for my shooting as I never tried to shoot anything so tiny that I needed that kind of accuracy. I do like shooting 100 rounds of 45-70 during a range visit vs. 20 rounds. Down here everyday is t-shirt day and of course I do not use shoulder pads so the low pressure rounds are much more fun.

Robert

[part_timer]

I understand completely PT. Wherever the best load for me falls is what it is. I do not require .2 accuracy for my shooting as I never tried to shoot anything so tiny that I needed that kind of accuracy. I do like shooting 100 rounds of 45-70 during a range visit vs. 20 rounds. Down here everyday is t-shirt day and of course I do not use shoulder pads so the low pressure rounds are much more fun.

Robert

I save the heavy loads for the late fall and early winter so I have the carhearts on. I also have a PAST pad ( I'm a sissy). I'm waiting to get started on our 45-70. I tried some Varget? I think. I'd have to check my notes but it was mid range for starters. We were shooing pop cans with it at 25 yards but that was as far as we got with it. I cast up a couple hundered boolits for it and would like to get it warmed up here soon. I'm like you though, I'd rather shoot 100 than 25 any day of the week and to be honest most of the time a milk jug at 100 is good enough to make me happy.

[runnin lead]

Why not a Sub -MOA Fairy, if we are gonna fantisize then why not go big by goin smaller
and add me to the list, but only if the result of the visit are lasting.

[Frank]

1.5-2 moa is the best accuracy for 45/70? This caliber must be able to do better. Mountain Gun gave us a powder charge, gun and velocity. Dframe, what powder charge and is it a rifle? I'm interested in the most accurate loads, rifle, pistol or both, for 45/70. Also, the jury is still out on whether the 45/70 is suitable for a Contender.

[45 2.1]

Why not a Sub -MOA Fairy, if we are gonna fantisize then why not go big by goin smaller
and add me to the list, but only if the result of the visit are lasting.

That isn't a fantasy at all. Several people here do that. 4570s come in all types, weights and descriptions. Most people like to see how macho they are and really load them up with heavy boolits and charges. The more recoil you get, the harder it is too shoot them well. They don't respond to benchrest type of holding either. Trapdoor level loads are a lot more accomodating to the shoulder and grouping ability. A really nice load is about 23 to 24 gr. of SR4759 and a 360 to 405 gr. boolit cast out of very soft alloy sized to 0.462".

[725]

Two loads have worked for me in mine and my buddy's Buff Classic:

1 - 30 grs 4198, speed green, standard primer, 415 grain boolit (group buy- WFN,-PB, pure lead, touch of lino), pinch of Dacron. Mild recoil hovering right around that 1 MOA or a might bigger.

2 - 40 grs 3031, speed green, standard primer, 415 grain boolit (group buy-WFN,PB, 33% WW, 66% pure lead + a touch of lino). Firm recoil just over 1 MOA.

With load #2, I benched a twenty five yard target (scope) that was one hole less than the width of two meplats from that boolit. Love those WFN meplats. They cut such a nice, clear hole in the paper.

Tried a little SR 4759 with 365 RD GC boolits, speed green, pinch of Dacron at 24, 25, 26, & 27 gr loads and just didn't get the same grouping I did with #1 & #2. I'm still working on that powder & boolit. Got progressivly better as I approached 27 grs.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP GC /Marlin 1895 GS 45-70 100 Yards. Bottom two sighters top three for group.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0005.jpg

Hornady 350GR 100 yards Same Marlin at 100 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin45-70GS.jpg

[atlatl]

whats the powder and charge for the above group with the ranch dog bullets, Im looking to stock up on powder and would like one that works well with both cast and jacketed 350 gr bullets. thanks

[JesterGrin_1]

For the Ranch Dog 350 I used 52.OGr of H-322. If I were you I would try 51,OGr up to 52.5 and see how they shoot for you. But be aware that both loads given THUMP. Get a Limbsaver Butt Pad for that rifle. :)

[Gee_Wizz01]

I am using 51.5 grs of H322 with the RD 350 w/Hornady gas checks and LLA. I am getting 5 Shot groups between 1.75" to 2.00" at 100 yds in my M1895G with a 1.75 power scope. I can verify JesterGrin 1's observation that this load thumps. It chronographed at 1890 fps on a 102 degree day.

G

[JesterGrin_1]

Gee Wizz01 Thank You for jumping in. I think saying it thumps is an understatement lol.

I will put it another way. When I was at the Shooting Range another person had a Marlin 1895G with the 22 in barrel. And he was using factory made bullets. Sorry forget what make. But he had a 12 power scope on his and he could not get better than a 4 in group at 100 yards. He saw my target and asked what I was shooting and I informed him with all the info. And he asked if he could try a few and I said sure. I gave him 5 rounds to try. But he only shot 1 and gave the rest back lol.

[Frank]

I use SR4759 in the BFR and Marlin Guide gun because that's what 44man recommended. Astonishing accuracy with Dacron filler, both guns. I agree with 45 2.1 and 725. What is the need for speed?

[JesterGrin_1]

What is the need for speed? Distance :)

[NickSS]

My best loads in the 45-70 are a Lyman 458125 (the 385 gr RN) over 42 gr of IMR 3031 gives .75" three shot groups out of my Ruger #3 carbine. Lee 405 gr sized .459" over 70 gr by Volume Pyrodex in my Shiloh LR Express gives 5 shot groups of .95" at 100 yards. Postel 535 gr sized ..459" with 62 gr of GOEX FFG and a .030" fiber wad under the bullet gives me 10 shot 1.25 inch groups at 100 yards from my C Sharps 1875 rifle.

[dsmjon]

I see the Lyman book calls for a dacron filler when using b/w 10-16gr of Unique. Is this absolutely needed? Is there another product one could use for filler? (loosened up cotton balls?).

I'm just starting out loading for this cartridge. Hoping to shoot it tonight or Thursday (i.e. no time to go buy new powder). Any recomendations for Unique, Win 748 (I will be trying the info from post #3), IMR 4064/4650?

For now, I will be launching 425gr cast w/ GC's from a Marlin 1895G.

[Frank]

Jester_grin says
What is the need for speed? Distance
Dont' forget penetration. I'll bet that Lee 350 with 52 grns needs alot of water jugs. Remember 44man's penetration test? :Fire:

[Dframe]

My best accuracy so far is with 38 grains of 3031 and the old reliable 405 grain cast bullet. I'm shooting a light iron sighted gun and I'm well past the age when my eyes just aint what they used to be. My "MOA Fairy" joke was a gentle barb at all the people who claim much smaller groups than they are actually shooting. I've never tried to imagine what MOA looks like on a deer, but I don't think the deer can tell the difference anyway. People with better eyes than me or using glass might very well be able to better my groups. But we reach a point where it becomes just silly. BTW I never load anything that I would be afraid to load in my trapdoor. As an earlier poster pointed out HEAVY loads come with a price. And just how much power do you really need?

[Frank]

The accuracy point is at the lower end. Jester_grin, no offense, those are marvelous targets. What I'm talking about, though, isn't 3-shot groups. Now relax. That is good news for you. For the Marlin Guide Gun, the best powder is SR4759. It will shoot the slow accurate loads off the bench, WITHOUT EVEN HOLDING THE FOREEND! I kid you not. Put a scope on it, a good scope with some power on it. Don't worry, the lesser eye relief won't be a problem here. You can put a fine crosshair and concentrate on your shooting. Shoot it like a benchrest rifle. What the small hole get alittle bigger then you will know.

Step it up to slow-medium and it is still good. For me it is 36.5 grns IMR4198 with a store bought 405 grn Rem jacketed softpoint. Dframe is doing the same thing with 38 grns 3031. You can shoot this accurately without even grabbing the forend. Recoil begins to deteriorate accuracy.

Now go higher and things fall apart. Try to shoot those loads consistently shot after shot, 7-shot, 10-shot groups at 100 and there will be fliers. I know there is Joe Blammer out there who's trying to max the cartridge out, but this isn't what we want. We're looking for the most accurate load, and fortunately for us, it's at the low end where we can enjoy the rifle also.

[dk17hmr]

I dont have a 45-70 any more but I do have a 450 Marlin.
425gr Ranch Dog not sure on velocity but just past ouch. This isnt a bench gun by any means. It is a hunting rifle pure and simple. It also throws 325gr Hammer bullets out the barrel with 53.5gr of H322 into groups a bit smaller and also faster.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/450Marlin.jpg

That orange dot is about 1.5" across.

[Frank]

What kind of rifle is that?

[acsteve]

looks like an H&R with a thumbhole stock. Looks like a nice outfit

[Dframe]

Thats what it looks like to me too. Mine is the grandparent of that one. It's an old Shikari.

[9.3X62AL]

Those Shikari rifles are/were cool critters!

My current 45-70 is a Ruger #1-S, which weighs in at about 7-1/4# with a 22" barrel. Its bore form is 8-groove/right twist, about 1-20" pitch rate IIRC, groove/land is about 60%/40% at .459"/.449". Throating is abrupt, .459" in the "Government Ballseat" form. Its best loads have used the Lee 405 grain boolit @ 30-1 lead/tin, prompted to 1100 FPS by 55.0 grains of Goex 2F with 1/16" of compression, sparked by Federal #215 primers. These consistently grouped 5 shots into 1.25"-1.5" at 100 yards.

Its best smokeless load to date has been a duplex loading of 6.0 grains of IMR-4198 under 48.0 grains of WC-860, using the Lee 405 grain boolit cast of WW metal. Spark plugs are again the Fed #215, and the powder is 100% loading density. Velocity runs about 1300 FPS, and accuracy is reliably 1.5" at 100 yards/5 shots.

Both loads have been tested using the NECG aperture sight and a 1x-4x Redfield scope--no improvement was noted using the glass sight. I take this to mean that the loads are as good as it gets in that rifle, and it's certainly good enough to hunt with.

[vincewarde]

H&R Handi with 2.5x BSA Shotgun Scope

Lee 457-340-F cast in Linotype wt 325gr

21gr SR 4759

WW Large Rifle

1050fps

1-1.5 moa

Yes, I know that Linotype should in no way be needed for this load, but hey it works. I may try another alloy and see if it goes as well.

[JSnover]

H&R Handi with 2.5x BSA Shotgun Scope

Lee 457-340-F cast in Linotype wt 325gr

21gr SR 4759

WW Large Rifle

1050fps

1-1.5 moa

Yes, I know that Linotype should in no way be needed for this load, but hey it works. I may try another alloy and see if it goes as well.

I'll second that. I've used 21 gr of 4759 with WW bullets weighing 325-400 and all of them shot well. Very accurate, very low recoil.

[JesterGrin_1]

Since we are talking 45-70 I have a Powder Question. Can you download H-322? I do not find much info on the powder in this respect.

[rob45]

Since we are talking 45-70 I have a Powder Question. Can you download H-322? I do not find much info on the powder in this respect.

I have used 40.0gr H322 behind a 300gr bullet. Velocity 1450 out of 22" barrel.
Never tried to go lower. Was not trying to develop the "most accurate load", but rather one that produced approx. that velocity with that bullet while still staying in 2" groups. Hunting purposes only.

I used to use H4198 for the really hot stuff, because that seemed to be the most accurate at higher velocities with the midweight bullets (350-400grn).

Mostly I now use 5744 because that is the most economical for me. It doesn't take much, and I have a little over 20# of it. My 45-70s are lever actions, and they are hunting tools that do not require sub-MOA. I like to spend more time simulating "hunting conditions" like moving targets, quick repeat shots, etc. So I never spent time going after the holy grail of accuracy. Not that it wouldn't be interesting to see what's best, but my abilities (eyesight,etc.) can't keep up with the rifles as it is.

Lots of guys use the 45-70 for some pretty long-range shooting, so I would think that there are some very accurate loads out there. I don't do that so I can't comment on it.

Anyways, I don't know how far you consider downloading H322, but that is the lowest I've taken it, and I had no problems with it.

[splattersmith]

68 grains Swiss 1.5 - compressed to fit 527 Postell
Cast from chilled shot - Brooks mould
Cast .460 - sized .459 for .458 barrel
case sized .002 under sized bullet (press fit - .459 sizing - loses accuracy in my rifle)
Set just OFF the lands
.060 wad - veggie or poly - the argument on that continues
BR-2 primer
Rem brass
Sagebrush lube
in my 34" barreled Shilo Sharps, you rifle will eat differently

Also .30 grains 4198
.060 poly wad
nylon batting filling void (about 1 g)
fed lrg rfl mag primer
Rem brass
same bullet, or 538 PJ Creedmore

[philthephlier]

65 gr. Swiss 1-1/2F dropped through a 30 inch tube
Starline brass unsized
Federal 215 Primer
Lyman 457125 bullet cast at 30-1, sized to .459
SPG lube
Bullet seated to just kiss the rifling
Press fit in the case, no crimp
1874 Sharps Business rifle by Pedersoli will keep all shots inside 3-1/2" @ 200 Meters with very good sights (Axtell front and rear)

I have yet to see any load do better in any rifle with iron sights. I'm not saying it isn't done, I haven't seen it. Venturino has said that a load must go into 4" or less @ 200 yds to compete in BPC matches. I don't shoot the regular match with the chickens, pigs, turkeys, and rams. I did it once about 5 years ago right after I bought the rifle and hadn't worked out the load by then. I think this load would fair very well in this rifle with someone used to shooting that match.

[Ramsgate]

I see the Lyman book calls for a dacron filler when using b/w 10-16gr of Unique. Is this absolutely needed?

None of the clever folk answered your question so I'll put my two cents in. It was a happy day when I stopped fooling with fillers. I shoot light loads in .45-70 and .375 H&H several times each week and use no fillers, wads, cards or whatever. Most days I use Bullseye or VV N330 and I used Universal Clays and Unique until I ran out. The key to happiness is a relatively fast powder that is not position sensitive and a slow bullet. You don't annoy anyone, leading is someone else's problem and if the bullet is remotely the right size, they will fly straight. My .45-70 has digested a large number of undersized cast boolits (.454) and the mirror bright bore is till a delight. Of course I only used the undersized stuff because I already had them and yes I expected the worst. Anyway, at my house we are filler free.

[dsmjon]

I appreciate it Ramsgate. I finally gave up and loaded some with 16gr Unique, no filler and gave it a shot (yes, that pun was intended) :) Worked like a champ don't know if I posted this in this thread or another, but results are in the link below:

*note* the 2 shots w/ the 52gr 4064 touching were my shots.. the outlier shot was when the RSO took a turn... :) I think it scared him :D

45-70 target (http://www.jonsmithphoto.com/pics/bang/45-70target.jpg)

[casey]

The load i have setteled on for my guide gun is: .460-350gc Ranchdog. It goes 365grn. from my alloy which is ww+2% tin,water dropped sized .459, Win. case, 52grn. H4198,Win.lr primer.This chronos 2073 F.P.S 15' from the muzzle. I can keep it on a 2" dot with XS peep at 100yrds. Puts the big smack on deer!:bigsmyl2:

[1Shirt]

Well, guess I will put in my 2 cents worth. For target work, I am close to Ramsgate, with Unique or Red Dot, and in the 1200-1400 bracket. If I were going to hunt deer with 45-70, would probably go with 22-24 gr. or 2400, w/filler, and 405 flat nose Ohas that shoots MOA out of my #1. If I were going for big or dangerous, would probably be looking at vols of 1800-2000. With the right blt, even at those vols, think they would exit to the north end of any moose or elk, and probably big bear that was shot in the south end. Vol isn't everything in my book. Will agree that higher vols give longer range potential.
1Shirt!!:coffee:

[TCLouis]

but with the RD 350, or the RCBS 325 RNFP I find my 1886 and Remington Rolling Block favor 23.5 of Milsurp 4759, or 10.5.grains of Bartlett #105.

Not a high speed load, kinda mimics BP loadings.

Now have chrono data
350 RD (378 in my alloy), 10.5 #105, WLP 1099 fps

325 RCBS (345 in my alloy) 10.5 #105, WLP 1105 fps

325 RCBS (345 in my alloy) 23.5 4759, WLP 1290 fps

[Gunlaker]

I've got a handful of different .45-70's. It seems that I've taken to collecting them. They've pretty much kicked out most of the rest of the guns in my collection :bigsmyl2:

(Marlin 1895g, Ruger #1, Browning Highwall, Pedersoli 1874, Shiloh 1874, C. Sharps high wall).

I'm no expert, just lucky enough to afford these nice guns, so take it with a grain of salt :-)

The first three are guns I mostly shoot smokeless in, and the last three are for black powder. They have all been tested with this smokeless load that seems to work very well in all of them. It'll shoot 5 shot 1.25" groups @ 100 yards in my (scoped) Ruger #1 with no troubles, and in my 1885 with open sights I hit the 200 yard gong at our local range with enough regularity that it's boring.

Rem cases, CCI 200 primer, 38.5gr IMR 3031, 405gr cast gas checked bullet.

It's pretty mild at around 1200fps in my Marlin 1895 guide gun, but plenty accurate.

I do have some more accurate loads for individual rifles (my Ruger really likes 300 grain J bullets @ 2330fps for instance), but this one little loads seems to be accurate in all of them.

Chris.

[Trifocals]

GeorgeWXXX gets the credit for this load. 27gr of 4759 behind a Lyman 457122 boolit cast of WW. Amazingly accurate out of (3) of my rifles....even at 200yds. I have no idea of the velocity. Just use well cast boolits sized properly for your rifle and enjoy fine accuracy. LOL :-P

[Mike Venturino]

I was browsing around and came across this thread so I thought to present some information from the BPCR Silhouette side of things.

First off are two of my favorite competition rifles. These are Lone Star Rolling Block replicas. Top one is a .40-65 that I've owned since 1997 but bottom one is a .45-70 that I only bought (used) in July of this year.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/9-24-09008LargeWebview.jpg

These are three consecutive groups fired with the .40-65 at 300 yards here on my home range. (It actually lasers at 297 yards.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/9-24-09044LargeWebview.jpg

This is the only group I've ever fired with the .45-70 using this load. It likewise is at 300 yards.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/8-20-09015LargeWebview.jpg

These are .40-65s and .45-70s shown as I load them.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/9-24-09029LargeWebview.jpg

These are five of my favorite BPCR Silhouette bullets. From left to right: Brooks 420 grain .40 caliber Creedmoor, Brooks 425 grain pointed (bullet used in the groups shown), MOS 533 grain, .45 caliber Creedmoor, Brooks 555 grain .45 caliber, Gov't style roundnose (bullet used in the group shown) and Brooks 560 grain "popcorn" .45 caliber Creedmoor. All weights are for 1-20 alloy.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/MLV1/9-24-09024LargeWebview.jpg

I hope this is of some interest.
MLV

[big boar]

Frank, you mentioned the best accuracy you've found is at the lower velocities, do you find this to always be the case? I've found, with only a few exceptions, the heavier bullets(420gr) at the higher velocities, perform best. 1895M 450Marlin, cast loads (why would anyone use jackets in a 45 rifle?) using 300grFN and 405FN(420gr) consistantly show, those that hurt the most, on the target boast.
Mr Venturino, BLUE CROCKS?? Please, respect for the forum.

[doubs43]

This afternoon I took my 1875 C. Sharps Business rifle to the range to get sight settings for Saturday's Buffalo Match that our local club shoots. I'd replaced the non-vernier rear sight with a Pedersoli Goodwin Vernier sight.

Here are my sight setting five shots at a laser-measured 238 yards fired from sandbags. I guessed at the setting and the result was shot #1. An adjustment gave me shot #2. The three shots between them was after my final adjustment. There was a bit of wind but those three measured 2 1/16" C-C between the two widest shots.

FWIW, the three pasters cover three shots I made at 150 meters before relocating the target to the 238 yard target frame. The top shot was #1 after guessing at the setting. An adjustment and then the final two shots that very nearly touch each other at 6 o'clock.

My load is an RCBS 300 grain GC bullet sized to .358". I use 3.0 grains of WW-231 and 57.0 grains of AA-8700. A moderate crimp is made on the front drive band of the bullet.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/doubs43/238YardTarget.jpg

[Cheshire Dave]

Hey Mike , Those would be great at 300 yards but at a measly 297 ...[smilie=l:

[Mike Venturino]

Yeah Dave, I know. I guess I sort of cheated.

MLV

[9.3X62AL]

Yeah, right. Cheated.

I'd be tickled as h--l with results like that at 300+/- yards. Good shooting, sir.

[TCLouis]

Anyone ever try 23.5 grains of Milsurp 4759 and 325 RCBS or 350 RD boolit?

[Gunlaker]

Yeah Dave, I know. I guess I sort of cheated.

MLV

I'm a new caster (only cast about 300-400 so far) and I've always been amazed at the perfect bullets in your pictures. Mine are about the same quality (from visual inspect )as the commercial cast ones I can buy in my neck of the woods, but lack the perfection of the ones in your pictures :-).

How long did it take you to become that proficient at casting?

Chris.

[Matt Muir]

Shiloh 45-70 LRE
535 gr Post, Lyman cast from WW
Rem or WW Brass
65 gr by weight Goex 2f with .30 veggie over powder compressed to fit bullet to top band,then slight roll crimp
CCI Mag primer

Will shoot under 1 inch for 3 shots with MVA sights @ 100yrds. Have not been able to shoot 2- to 300 yrds yet.

[Mike Venturino]

Gunlaker: I started casting in December of 1966 and I haven't gotten it figured out yet. I do pretty good with the BPCR bullets and started getting them to suit me after about 10 years of intense experimentation. They came together for me when I went to straight 1-20 tin to lead alloy. However, one of the sport's really good shooters - Mike Rix of Colorado - uses ordinary wheelweights. He won the AZ state championship five years in a row with them.

MLV

[Shooter6br]

I use 4759 with a 350 g Ranchdog in my Ruger No 1 (23.5 grains) I dont use and dacron or TP Velocity is 1188 out of a 22 in barrel Very accure. I have worked up to 24 g mainly since i use Lee dippers. 4759 is a great powder but "bridges " in my Redding 30 BR measure. Varget and H322 is also good to try buy has an increased kick.

[Bullshop]

The title of this thread just brings a smile to my face. The answers are endless.
I have been singing the praises of the 45/70 for 35 years. After so much time spent with the cartridge I still have no favorite load.
I have gotten excellent accuracy with powders ranging from bullseye to 5010 for powders that pretty much covers the entire burn rate scale. Black powder and all BP subs included in the list. I have used boolits from 180gn to about 600gn in diameters from .450" to .460". It can be accurately loaded at power levels suitable for indoor shooting and on up to elephant shooting and extended nearly a mile for long distance shooting.
About the time I think I have a favorite load something else will come up because I found some cheap powder at a gun show or a new to me mold or even a new idea and the old favorite will fade away and a new emerge.
More versatility I can not imagine. If I am forced to hoard or hide or otherwise somehow preserve a single firearm to aid in the preservation in my life style it will be a 45/70.
I bet those that have known me here for a time will even know what particular rifle that will be. Yup its ol B00 my life long partner.
Sorry I have been absolutely no help in answering the original question here but hopefully made it clear how endless the choices and areas to look for the best.
BIC/BS

[JesterGrin_1]

What determines the speed of my load is how far I will expect a target to be and what amount of drop I am willing to accept for the given distance

[Shooter6br]

True all depends on what distanse you shoot and the target Paper vs meat. Also your recoil tolerance. I shoot paper 50 to 100yrds see I go with enought speed to punch a hole in the paper and has good accuratcy 350 g at about 1250 or so Rick

[Frank]

45/70 is a versatile caliber, from the precision marksmen of Europe to the black powder affectionatoes of North America.

[Freightman]

Got two 45/70's they shoot really good one day and really bad the next! now I know it can't be me (joke) so I think someone is sabotaging my loads.

[Frank]

Jestergrin says
What determines the speed of my load is how far I will expect a target to be and what amount of drop I am willing to accept for the given distance
That's true. The drop is great with the 45/70. But you can click with a scope, right? How much drop is your load at 200 yds?

[JesterGrin_1]

I have set up my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 to have a zero at about 150 yards. Which is the Ranch Dog 350Gr at about 1900FPS which as set at 100 yards will give me about 2 1/2 inches above the bull and a zero at 150 yards. If I was going to stretch it to 200 yards I would expect the drop to be right at 6 to 61/2 inches low at 200 yards with the zero as it is set now. But the shots I expect to take are between 125 and 150 yards so this is where I have set it up. Past this point it really starts to drop lol. from the 6 1/2 inches low at 200 yards it will drop another 26 inches at 300 yards.

[Frank]

You're doing great. With a cast boolit I'm trying to go slower. I want it where I lay it in the rest, it goes "pop" and hits exactly what the crosshairs were on. I can click whereever I want it to go.

[Frank]

Jestergrin says
Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP GC /Marlin 1895 GS 45-70 100 Yards. Bottom two sighters top three for group.
I'm going to load that. How much H322?

[JesterGrin_1]

Frank I would not shoot my load in a Pistol lol. In the GS it does THUMP lol.

I use the Ranch Dog 350Gr with a Remington Case with 52.OGr of H-322 and a Fed 210 primer. But since not every gun is the same I would try 51.5 52.O and 52.5 and see what you get. But I will add when I make up rounds I sort the Bullets by weight. And the norm is with in 1Gr or less.

Sorry as I have to add this. This load I use for hunting as I do not make low end loads for plinking with this rifle I save that stuff for the .44 Mag and .357 Mag Marlins. :)

[Frank]

Thanks. I was going to try your load in my Marlin to see what you're doing.

[Frank]

Jester, you're right. :drinks: It was windy, but 52 grns was good.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=1681

[JesterGrin_1]

Frank I am glad you did well with the load. :) And sorry I am more of a rifle shooter not a pistolero like ole 44Man lol.

As you can tell from post 13 my norm for that load is under 1 in at 100 yards but most of the time 3/4 of an inch or less. BUT I make all of my loads in groups by weight of the bullet within .01Gr.

But since I have changed the type of scope I use the norm is now right at 1 in or a hair over. For the groups I posted I used a standard set up scope of a 3 X 9 but it met my eye one too many times and got tired of blood running down my face lol. So I now use a scout set up with a 2 X 7. And I LIKE IT and my face does as well lol. :)

But not being a pistolero is all my fault lol. Growing up I never had much use for a pistol of any kind as it was drilled into me that a pistol is something you use when you are saying Oh Sh_T lol. Which means you made many mistakes to get to the point you have to use a pistol then a knife and so on.


Frank I do hope that load did not hurt too much?

[Frank]

Load testing. 28 was like 27. What's with the flier? It was windy, front left to right. I think the bag needed more dusting.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=1682

[JesterGrin_1]

Frank I am not sure of your question? But I will say when I have a clean barrel the norm would be to waste the first one or two rounds then shoot for a group. If I am happy with the group and since I am going to hunt with it I do not clean the bore till hunting season is over.


Load testing. 28 was like 27. What's with the flier? It was windy, front left to right. I think the bag needed more dusting.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=1682

[JesterGrin_1]

For Hunting I am very happy with the scout scope set up with my 2 X 7 long eye relief pistol scope. You might laugh but it is the NxStar 2 X 7 and it works great. And has held up just fine so far. :)

[Frank]

I meant my flier. Your groups are great. :drinks:

[JesterGrin_1]

I meant my flier. Your groups are great. :drinks:

Frank I understood flyer but you did not mention the load.

But as I said I found from a brand new clean barrel I have had a first round flyer so for the first round from a clean barrel I shoot one or two off of the target. And I let the rifle sit about 3 min between each round when the temp is around 70F.

If I leave the barrel dirty I normally do not have a bad first round flyer in my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70.

But my Marlin 1894SS in .44 Mag I will not even go there lol.