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Russel Nash
09-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Howdy all,

I am trying to get a Colt 80 Series gun to run reliably with SWC's for the USPSA Single Stack division.

That danged gun hiccups at least one round in every mag when I try to feed it SWC's.

It seems to run FMJ/round nose bullets okay... like 100% of the time.

When it jams on the SWC's, it is like the round is caught on its nose as it is trying to get chambered. So the gun stops way short of completly going into battery. So I do the "tap, rack, and bang" thing to get that round out of there.

I have been trying to use up the rest of my Berry's copper plated SWC's. Once they are gone, that's it. I am never buying any more Berry's copper plated bullets.

This last batch of ammo I made, I set the bullets shorter so the OAL was at 1.20". And it still hiccuped on them. Arrghh...:-x

I can't remember now how well the Colt handles lead SWC's. I have the Lyman mould for their 200 grain-ish SWC and I have casted up a few of them. I just haven't really loaded them up for practice or match reasons just yet.

The other 1911 I have is an STI Trojan. It has a ramped barrel (the frame is cut differently than the Colt's). It runs alright with the SWC's...never a hiccup.

For what its worth, I use the same mags for both guns.

So is there some trick I need to do to the Colt to get it to digest SWC's 100% of the time?

SWC's are kinda nice to shoot because they leave nice clean holes in the carboard targets. Not that I stick around long enough to see my holes in the targets, but it is nice to get a visual confirmation of my hits before I head off quickly to the next array. The nice clean holes make it easier for the Range Officer to score the targets too.

The Colt has had a trigger job done to it so it is around 3.5 pounds. It also has a mag well on it, so that's why I suffer through shooting the Colt. I might just swap the guts out of the colt today and put them in the Trojan, and then add the mag well. The Trojan's trigger pull has got to be up past 5 pounds.

Thanks!

KYCaster
09-13-2009, 09:49 PM
Sounds to me like you're learning why you don't see many Colts at USPSA matches.

If you swap the Colt parts into the STI, you'll just mess up the STI.

The easiest approach would to be to have a trigger job done on the Trojan. Next would be to take the Colt to a good 1911 smith and tell him to make it work. It will cost much more to make the Colt reliable than to fix the trigger on the STI.

Colts are generally more valuable to collectors than to shooters. You could probably sell a used Colt that doesn't run and have enough money to buy a Springfield or Trojan that will work right out of the box.

Good luck finding somebody to work on your guns.

Jerry

cowboy
09-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Howdy-
IF you are REAL disappointed in that Colt, please sell it to me, as it sits, with ALL original parts. I assure you, you will receive far less than it is worth, and after I throat the barrel properly, it will positively SING through mag after mag of my 200gr semiwadcutter load.
Seriously, has the barrel been properly throated for semiwadcutters? I use a 1.25" OAL, taper crimp with a separate die, and these feed through both my "built up" Springfield ( w Les Baer barrel, delivered with a proper throat) and my recently acquired Colt "Special Combat Government" , which looks to wear a proper throat from the factory, and has a trigger to rival my gunsmith's finest efforts. Heck, this round is "burpless" in my GI look alike 1911A1 from High Standard ( one of the recent ones assembled in the Phillipines), though that gun is a BIT more accurate with hardball. Go figure.
If you don't have a copy of Hallocks classic book on this pistol, it is a fair place to start, though others MAY have better illustrations of what to do.
I wouldn't be too hasty to blame the Berry's bullets. It could be the throat, the OAL, a too light powder charge and recoil spring not matched to such, or even not holding solidly enough during the time the slide is cycling ( the so-called "limp wristing" which dampens the forces seen by the gun, and can cause malfunctions as you describe, though more often a "stovepipe" ejection failure).
Just trying to help.

StarMetal
09-14-2009, 01:18 AM
Sounds to me like you're learning why you don't see many Colts at USPSA matches.

If you swap the Colt parts into the STI, you'll just mess up the STI.

The easiest approach would to be to have a trigger job done on the Trojan. Next would be to take the Colt to a good 1911 smith and tell him to make it work. It will cost much more to make the Colt reliable than to fix the trigger on the STI.

Colts are generally more valuable to collectors than to shooters. You could probably sell a used Colt that doesn't run and have enough money to buy a Springfield or Trojan that will work right out of the box.

Good luck finding somebody to work on your guns.

Jerry

Jerry,

Sounds like you don't like Colt 1911's. They are as good or better then any other 1911 out there on the market and can be made to run very reliable and be quite accurate. Sounds like his barrel needs throated for SWC's which can be done quite well with a Dremel which in turn tons cheaper then a trigger job on his other pistol. My two Colts will feed empties. After I did the tune work myself they both are very accurate.

Joe

Russel Nash
09-14-2009, 02:26 AM
Yeah, it might just be a matter of browsing the Brownell's catalog and/or their website to see what tool I am looking for exactly. It could be a chamber reamer.... or most likely it is some other tool.

After I posted this question, a few hours later it struck me that I am a member of one of the 1911 forums. I think there are 2 main ones. I get them confused.

But I'm sure if I posted there, somebody would reply back and probably give me a play by play or rather step by step instruction on how to do it and provide links to whatever tool or tools I might need to buy, if any.

The STI Trojan in stainless, well ain't all that and bag of chips, at least not for a $1,200 gun. A plastic mainspring housing and a plastic trigger were the first two things that disappointed me. The weight of the trigger probably being number 3 on the list.

If STI sold stainless frames and/or slides, I would have gone that route instead.... blue printed the slide and the frame and milled accordingly...fitted a barrel and then bought EGW/Doug Koening guts...and gone with a for real stainless steel mainspring housing and some sort of metal trigger. Yeah, all the while with that Hallocks book in my hands and/or the Kuhnhausen manuals.

IIRC, I bought that Colt in 1994 for about $600. It's an 80 series, so I really don't think it is all that collectable.

As far as why you don't see that many Colts at USPSA matches...well... part of the reason is because of STI. STI has a contigency program where if you wear one of their shirts and shoot an STI framed gun and win your class/division at a major match, you get $350 worth of STI retail product.

So basically, it's a combination rewards program and marketing program.... you see all these guys at major matches wearing STI shirts and you have to wonder....

And just within the past year or two, the USPSA Single Stack division has become a for real legitimate division within USPSA. I think there are 5 divisions now.

Before Single Stack became a bona fide division, there was the Open division and the Limited division. Both are pretty much ruled by STI (or SVI) double stacked 2011 guns.

Soooo.... Colt didn't make a gun gamey enough to be worthwhile competing with in this USPSA game, since AFAIK, it didn't make a double stack gun/frame.

In Limited, the STI/SVI "raceguns" are starting out with about 20-ish rounds.

In Open, with a "big stick" mag, the open raceguns can start out with nearly 30 rounds of 9mm Major ammo.

Going to major matches is expensive, so I rationalized the purchase of the STI Trojan because of their contigency program. Theoretically, if I won my class/division at enough major matches, I could have enough STI retail product money to go on and build me a Limited gun, and then possibly later on, an Open gun, especially as I approach age 40, and that's supposedly when the eyes really start to go bad. I might need a red optic then.

Russel Nash
09-14-2009, 02:30 AM
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that there is/was also a Production division, a Revolver division and a Limited 10 division.

The Production division is ruled by Glocks.

But, at least to me, in my opinion, the Open and Limited divisions rule the roost so to speak.

Geraldo
09-14-2009, 08:54 AM
Do you use a taper crimp die when loading .45acp? Does the same ammo run in the STI? If yes, then the throat job and polishing the feed ramp should be the answer.

Even though they used to swap parts with milspec 1911s, that does not make it a good idea. It might work with another Colt, but across brands there are too many individual fit issues. Colts have high quality small parts and good frames and slides, but they are sometimes rough out of the factory. I had a WWI repro that was so reliable out of the box I would have carried it without fear. I've had others that needed work. As they say, YMMV.

I would have someone who knows what they're doing tune the Colt for reliability and drive on with it.

Also, Brain Enos' website has a lot of helpful info for competitors.

KYCaster
09-15-2009, 06:05 PM
Jerry,

Sounds like you don't like Colt 1911's. Well Joe, I gotta admit, I do have a personal problem with the company and their current products. In the late '60s and early '70s I worked for a company that was bought by Colt Industries while they were controled by a foreign holding company. Strichman and Margolis, the CEO and CFO (I don't remember which was which) took over the company and their first decision was to sell off the Colt museum. The company's history meant nothing to them, they just wanted to wring every last penny out of the company before they put it back up for sale. The cast iron "rampant colt" sculpture that sat on top of the manufacturing plant was sold to a scrap dealer.(for a couple hundred bucks is what I heard) The guns they produced during that era were absolute garbage and they didn't care. The assets(what little remained) were eventually sold to an emplayee owned corporation, but too much damage had been done and Colt never recovered to their former place in the industry. They are as good or better then any other 1911 out there on the market I strongly disagree with that statement. Springfield, Kimber, Norinco(I know, no longer available here), STI and a few others are much more likely to run well right out of the box than Colt. and can be made to run very reliable and be quite accurate. You're right of course, but you could say the same thing about every other 1911 on the market. Sounds like his barrel needs throated for SWC's which can be done quite well with a Dremel which in turn tons cheaper then a trigger job on his other pistol. Anybody who can do a decent throat with a Dremel tool should have no problem getting a factory trigger from 5lbs. to 3.5lbs. I've seen...and I'm sure you have too...lots of barrels screwed up with a Dremel.(I've done it a couple of times myself :oops:) My two Colts will feed empties. After I did the tune work myself they both are very accurate.

Joe

Your last statement kind of reinforces what I've said. What I hear is that your Colts were not reliable or accurate as they came from the factory(that's kinda what I said in my earlier post), but because you have the knowledge and ability, you're able to make them run like you want them to. BTW...making a 1911 feed empty brass is kinda neat and impressive to watch, but it has very little to do with feeding live ammo.[smilie=1:

It seems like there is a 1911 smith behind every tree, but there are very few of them that I would trust to work on my guns and most of those are way out of my price range. So I would much rather start with a gun that works rather than one that needs to be rebuilt before I would trust it to run through a match.

Jerry

StarMetal
09-15-2009, 06:26 PM
Your last statement kind of reinforces what I've said. What I hear is that your Colts were not reliable or accurate as they came from the factory(that's kinda what I said in my earlier post), but because you have the knowledge and ability, you're able to make them run like you want them to. BTW...making a 1911 feed empty brass is kinda neat and impressive to watch, but it has very little to do with feeding live ammo.[smilie=1:

It seems like there is a 1911 smith behind every tree, but there are very few of them that I would trust to work on my guns and most of those are way out of my price range. So I would much rather start with a gun that works rather than one that needs to be rebuilt before I would trust it to run through a match.

Jerry

Jerry, I can understand how you feel the way you do. If all that is true, that sucks that history was scrapped like that.

I think you will find that if a 1911 can feed empties that it has lots fewer feeding problems (of loaded ammo) then 1911's that don't.

Colt got the 1911 first and ran with it. They perfected it, got all the bugs out of it. That's what I meant. If you look at the 1911's you're talking about they are relatively recent pistols when ALL the tricks are known to tweak them to really good guns. All that came about because of Colt and a lot of great gunsmiths around our country. Did you know it was hard for a gunsmith to reblue a 1911 because it was hard to get all the blue looking consistent due to the various types of steel used in the pistol? Colt had it down pat. Don't sell Colt short. Sure, they have lots of bad things about them as does any other gun manufacturer.

I tuned my 1911's not because they weren't reliable. I did it because I wanted them more accurate. You think Colt was going to sell you a 1911 that was hand assembled and tuned...you know like fitting the barrel the way the accurate match guns were, or fitting the slide to the frame with minimum clearance, etc., for the same price as the bone stock one? No. Look at the price of todays basically tuned 1911's compared to Colts back when these new brands weren't around. The only thing I'll say is that I did tune the breech of the barrels for better feeding of semi wadcutters. The Gold Cups came with that and a better trigger and sights. But they didn't have the barrels hand fitted nor the slides to the frames. Today shooters have it made with the array of tuned and gizmoed 1911's out there.

Joe

KYCaster
09-15-2009, 11:26 PM
Well, I checked my "facts" and found that it wasn't a foreign owned holding company that bought Colt like I said earlier. In 1955 Colt's was purchased by Penn-Texas, an American company, one of the earliest "conglomerates".

Strichman and Margolis gained control and continued buying companies and selling off assets and in 1964 adopted the name Colt Industries, apparently to take advantage of Colt's name recognition and reputation even though Colt was a very small part of their holdings. They eventually sold the handgun division and the Colt name to an employee owned company and kept the M16 contracts.

With the end of the VN war and lower govt. demand for arms they sold their rights to the Stoner/Armalite patents and got out of the firearms business.

Like I said, it's a personal problem I have with Colt, and probably because I'm so familiar with it, to me it represents the general decline in US manufacturing that started about that time period and has continued till today.

And Colt wasn't the only firearms company affected. Pre-64 Winchesters are considered to be better than anything they made later and the Bangor-Punta era at S&W is generally regarded as the low point in their history. But, unlike Colt, S&W has pretty much recovered and now dominates the revolver market. (Oh, I guess Ruger makes revolvers too, don't they:roll:)

It just seems a shame to me that the company that once set the standard for the industry is now content with selling second rate copies of the guns they built their reputation on.

Right now USPSA/IPSC competition drives the 1911 market and has for quite a few years. Except for Production and Revolver divisions that, by definition, exclude 1911s, you'd have to look a long time to find anything other than a 1911. And of all those Open, Limited and Single Stack guns, fewer than one in a hundred are Colts.

Colt hasn't sponsored a serious contender since Jerry Barnhart retired and the last attempt they made at updating their product was the 1991A1, eighteen years ago! And don't get me started on the Series 80 "improvement"! I wouldn't trust it at a USPSA match, much less in a life or death encounter.

This is starting to sound like a rant, isn't it.....:oops: I'm sorry if I've stepped on any toes, I know there are lots of guys who'll own nothing but Colt's...that's OK with me, its your choice and I'd hate to see them fold for lack of sales.

Joe, I've seen a few of those Springfields and Auto Ordnance with plum colored slides, but not lately. I guess there are plenty of alternatives to blueing now so you don't have to deal with that mismatched color.

Thanks for listening.
Jerry

StarMetal
09-16-2009, 12:14 AM
Jerry,

Like you've pretty much said Colt is pretty much out of the public's eye. Oh they make a few of these and those. Latest thing I've seen come from Colt (notice I didn't say out of) is the same exact dedicated AR15 22 rimfire that S&W is fielding. So with that said no wonder nobody is using Colts in matches. Basically an irrelevant statement from you.

How much you know about the 80 series Colts and have you owned one? That stainless Combat Commander Gold Cup that I posted a picture of while back on the forum is one and I elected not to remove the firing pin disconnect. After working it over the trigger is every bit as good as my 70 Series Gold Cup or any other 1911 and it's 100 percent trouble free too. Maybe I got lucky and got these two good Colts. I didn't even put an after market barrel in the CM Gold Cup. I sent it down to Jimmy Clark Jr and he welded it up for me and I fitted it. That was after talking to him and he said no no, don't buy a match barrel for it, even if I bought one of his barrels. He told me a story I won't bore you with, but it basically was to tell me his match barrels weren't any better then then Colt's barrels. Colt had their poop down when they were into making 1911's like I said. Sorry you hate the company and had such bad luck with your Colts.

Colt owned Holly Industries at one time too...ya know...the famous carb making company.

Joe

KYCaster
09-16-2009, 01:35 AM
Yes Joe, I had a series 80 Gold Cup for a while and a Para Ordnance P14 with the series 80 parts. Both of those and at least four others that friends of mine have had developed the same problem.

Due to tolerence stacking and also normal wear, the levers don't always raise the plunger far enough to completely clear the firing pin. Repeated contact between the firing pin and plunger will eventually peen the plunger till it's too big to raise into the recess in the slide, blocking the forward motion of the firing pin.

It's very disconcerting when it happens (to say the least), and can't be corrected without removing the slide and driving the plunger up with a punch far enough to clear the firing pin so it can be removed.

The feature was only added to defeat the California drop test and as far as I'm concerned has no place on any gun that may ever be used for self defense.(or in a match) And how often do you figure you'll drop your 1911 from a height of twenty feet and have it land directly on the muzzle? An ingenious solution to a non-existant problem.

Brownell's sells a filler block that fills the space in the frame where the levers fit so you can remove all the series 80 parts. I keep a couple of them on hand just in case somebody has a problem.

Jerry

P.S. I really don't hate Colt or their products. I just don't like what's happened to the company and I think there are other products that give me a better value for my hard earned bucks.

Russel Nash
09-16-2009, 01:55 AM
Well, hey.... what can I say?

This was back in 1994. I didn't know squat about guns. I reckon I know a little bit more now.

So I bought a gun that was stainless...hey, I have Crow's eyes. And it had some features on it that I liked.

An undercut trigger guard. A flared and lowered ejection port. It had some type of wide beavertail to it too, so I didn't have to worry about hammer bite.

I didn't want to spend $600 on a gun and then have to spend another $600 or more like a thousand for some "gunsmith" I didn't know from Adam work his magic on the gun. And trust that he wasn't some ham handed dremel jockey who was gonna booger up my gun.

I upgraded some stuff back in 1995 or 1996. I added a full length guide rod. A Videcki trigger and a combination mag well and mainspring housing by Smith and Alexander (well, I think it is by Smith and Alexander, anyway).

I hadn't even heard of Kimber back then. From what I can remember of my collection of gun catalogs at the time, about the only other big 1911 I remember was Springfield Armory. I think, now, all their stuff is made in Brazil. Or the majority of parts are made in Brazil and then it gets fitted or assembled in Geneso, IL. Maybe.

As far as my STI Trojan goes, I wasn't all that impressed with it, at that price, but hey, maybe, just maybe I can make my money back with their contigency program. That's my plan anyway.

I reckon I have to sink about another $400 worth of parts into it to bring up to a level I would like.

EDITED to add this: the Colt will then be my backup gun for matches, especially major matches.

StarMetal
09-16-2009, 02:10 PM
Well, hey.... what can I say?

This was back in 1994. I didn't know squat about guns. I reckon I know a little bit more now.

So I bought a gun that was stainless...hey, I have Crow's eyes. And it had some features on it that I liked.

An undercut trigger guard. A flared and lowered ejection port. It had some type of wide beavertail to it too, so I didn't have to worry about hammer bite.

I didn't want to spend $600 on a gun and then have to spend another $600 or more like a thousand for some "gunsmith" I didn't know from Adam work his magic on the gun. And trust that he wasn't some ham handed dremel jockey who was gonna booger up my gun.

I upgraded some stuff back in 1995 or 1996. I added a full length guide rod. A Videcki trigger and a combination mag well and mainspring housing by Smith and Alexander (well, I think it is by Smith and Alexander, anyway).

I hadn't even heard of Kimber back then. From what I can remember of my collection of gun catalogs at the time, about the only other big 1911 I remember was Springfield Armory. I think, now, all their stuff is made in Brazil. Or the majority of parts are made in Brazil and then it gets fitted or assembled in Geneso, IL. Maybe.

As far as my STI Trojan goes, I wasn't all that impressed with it, at that price, but hey, maybe, just maybe I can make my money back with their contigency program. That's my plan anyway.

I reckon I have to sink about another $400 worth of parts into it to bring up to a level I would like.

EDITED to add this: the Colt will then be my backup gun for matches, especially major matches.

I build one of the Springfield 1911 kits for my very good friend. On the first one the slide cracked because it was over hardened and it cracked which Springfield promptly replace. The second one was good and the pistol turned out to be a fine gun. You are correct they were made in Brazil. To me there's nothing wrong with that, some good products come out of that country. Hey Taurus is from there.

You're right about back in the time period you talked about thee weren't many choices. Certainly not like the full hilt match 1911's you can buy right off the shelf today. That's what I was trying to explain to Jerry. I'm sure if Colt was still competitive today and they would field a quality match pistol that would be as good or better then what's out there today. I hate to admit this, but I get a smile on my face when someone (and boy there have been many) has a problem with the so highly toted Kimber. Sorry, but true. Another firearm this is true of back in that time era was the AR15...nobody built them as good as Colt. Today that's changed too. Colt had a head start on all these companies. I've seen some crappy SAA's come out of their factory, but I admire them for never changing it, especially toward more safety...such as Ruger's transfer bar. What do you say about that Jerry, Colt never caved in to lawyers on their SAA?

Joe

Russel Nash
09-16-2009, 09:12 PM
Wasn't there some spiel about the M4 or the M16 rights, blueprints, patents...whatever??? being up for grabs?

So now, other manufacturers besides Colt can get in and compete against Colt for the M16 contracts???

I think the M4's are actually being made by FN in one of the Carolinas.

I think once Colt figures out that mooching off the government teat ain't gonna cut it anymore, it will be sink or swim time for them. They will be forced to once again pay attention to the civilian market.

Anywhoo... I took the hammer, sear, trigger, disconnector, ambi safety and sear spring out of the Colt and put it into the STI.

Boy...oh boy!!! Was that ever a lesson in patience getting that put back together.

Now, I am trying to put the Colt back together with the hammer, sear, sear spring, and disconnector out of the Colt.

If the STI had a fiber optic front sight... I'd be all set to shoot the steel match with the STI this weekend.

Yeah, I did get the STI to function check okay. I would like to make it out to the range on Thursday or Friday just to make sure it doesn't go full auto.

:holysheep

I might also try loading up the last of the Berry's 200grain plated SWC's again, but this time trying for an OAL of 1.16"

standles
09-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Ease the top hood edge about 1/16 inch and p[olish
Throat the bbl and polish
Polish the feed ramp.


Wilsons book on 45 modification is good start.

Did mine myself and it runs wit no hiccup. Either get a bbl already done and copy it or follow pics in book. If mess up it was only a bbl. You can get a Mil grade cheap bbl at gun show for practice first if you want.

Russel Nash
09-16-2009, 09:37 PM
from doing a search on "sear springs" on the Brian Enos forum, I just discovered that on the Brownell's website that they publish articles on gunsmithing, so that might be the next place I look at.

Thanks!

StarMetal
09-17-2009, 12:54 AM
Wasn't there some spiel about the M4 or the M16 rights, blueprints, patents...whatever??? being up for grabs?

So now, other manufacturers besides Colt can get in and compete against Colt for the M16 contracts???

I think the M4's are actually being made by FN in one of the Carolinas.

I think once Colt figures out that mooching off the government teat ain't gonna cut it anymore, it will be sink or swim time for them. They will be forced to once again pay attention to the civilian market.

Anywhoo... I took the hammer, sear, trigger, disconnector, ambi safety and sear spring out of the Colt and put it into the STI.

Boy...oh boy!!! Was that ever a lesson in patience getting that put back together.

Now, I am trying to put the Colt back together with the hammer, sear, sear spring, and disconnector out of the Colt.

If the STI had a fiber optic front sight... I'd be all set to shoot the steel match with the STI this weekend.

Yeah, I did get the STI to function check okay. I would like to make it out to the range on Thursday or Friday just to make sure it doesn't go full auto.

:holysheep

I might also try loading up the last of the Berry's 200grain plated SWC's again, but this time trying for an OAL of 1.16"

I made myself pins that fit the sear (not as long as the pin that holds it in the pistol). I put it together then slide it into position and then push the original pin in and it pushes my dummy pin out.

This is really needed for the Colt Gold Cups because they have two additional parts to the sear, a little kind of lever and super miniature spring for it, and I mean really small. Near impossible ti get back into the pistol without that slave pin.

Joe

KYCaster
09-17-2009, 02:26 AM
I build one of the Springfield 1911 kits for my very good friend. On the first one the slide cracked because it was over hardened and it cracked which Springfield promptly replace. The second one was good and the pistol turned out to be a fine gun. You are correct they were made in Brazil. To me there's nothing wrong with that, some good products come out of that country. I've put together a couple of those myself. I don't have a problem with their parts made in Brazil. Hey Taurus is from there.

You're right about back in the time period you talked about thee weren't many choices. Certainly not like the full hilt match 1911's you can buy right off the shelf today. That's what I was trying to explain to Jerry. You don't have to explain that to me Joe. I joined USPSA in 1982 so I'm well aware of what was available then. I soon discovered that a used Colt and a new Springfield cost about the same and the Springfield required much less work to make it into a viable competition gun. I'm sure if Colt was still competitive today and they would field a quality match pistol that would be as good or better then what's out there today. Well, there's one of the problems I have with the Colt company...they're not competitive because they just choose not to play. Jerry Barnhart worked for Colt full time as a match shooter and won every USPSA/IPSC title available using Colt products. At the same time Rob Letham was sponsored by Springfield and doing just as well as Barnhart. Now Springfield still has Letham and two or three others on the payroll while Colt has been left in the dust. At the last national match I attended I saw a couple of Colt shirts but I didn't recognize the guys wearing them and they didn't finish any where near the top. I hate to admit this, but I get a smile on my face when someone (and boy there have been many) has a problem with the so highly toted Kimber. Sorry, but true. Another firearm this is true of back in that time era was the AR15...nobody built them as good as Colt. Today that's changed too. Colt had a head start on all these companies. I've seen some crappy SAA's come out of their factory, but I admire them for never changing it, especially toward more safety...such as Ruger's transfer bar. What do you say about that Jerry, Colt never caved in to lawyers on their SAA? OK, that's a good point Joe, but can you explain why they did cave in with the 1911 series 80 parts and the AR15 large diameter pins? And I would think that after 125 years of producing the same Model P that they would have learned by now what size the cylinder throats should be. Talk to some of the guys that use Colts to shoot Cowboy Action...they replace all the internal parts with after market parts because the Colt parts are fragile and poorly fitted. The only Colt parts they keep are frame, barrel and cylinder. For half the cost of a Colt, you can have a Ruger....the quality may be hit or miss, but it will do the job just as well and will stand up to more punishment and hotter loads than the Colt. And for way less than half the cost you can have an Italian clone that has all the same limitations as the Colt.

Joe

Like I said earlier, Colts are generally more valuable as collectors than they are as shooters.



Russel...I didn't want to say anything till I checked, but I talked to a friend of mine this evening and his Trojan came from the factory with a one piece main spring housing/mag well and with a three lb. trigger. I have never seen another 1911 with frame, slide, barrel, bushing fit and lock up as tight as this one and still function 100%. Several others I've seen have appeared to be just as reliable.

Other than the main spring housing and trigger what else is there about the gun that needs to be changed? I think those two changes would still be cheaper than making the Colt reliable.

Oh, BTW...The STI contingency program doesn't help you if you shoot the Colt. [smilie=1:


Jerry

Russel Nash
09-17-2009, 07:49 AM
Well, I put the Colt back together, with the original STI innards and its single sided safety.

Now, guess what?

The trigger sucks on the Colt.... surprise! surprise!

I was just being silly just then ... it really isn't a surprise at all.

The game plan is to make the STI my primary pistola. Then the Colt is in the range bag, as a back up gun.

StarMetal
09-17-2009, 10:23 AM
Like I said earlier, Colts are generally more valuable as collectors than they are as shooters.



Russel...I didn't want to say anything till I checked, but I talked to a friend of mine this evening and his Trojan came from the factory with a one piece main spring housing/mag well and with a three lb. trigger. I have never seen another 1911 with frame, slide, barrel, bushing fit and lock up as tight as this one and still function 100%. Several others I've seen have appeared to be just as reliable.

Other than the main spring housing and trigger what else is there about the gun that needs to be changed? I think those two changes would still be cheaper than making the Colt reliable.

Oh, BTW...The STI contingency program doesn't help you if you shoot the Colt. [smilie=1:


Jerry

Jerry,

My guess why Colt messed with safety on the 1911 is because of the controversy of carrying it cocked and locked or carrying it with a chambered round and the hammer down. Add to that on the 70 series if the gun was dropped and lands on the muzzle it will fire if a round is chambered because of the inertia firing pin. That's why in my opinion.

I'm hearing the same thing about Ruger cylinders today on their single action. It's all quality control, which apparently sucks. Like I said elsewhere in another topic the name of the game today is money.

Jerry, you've seen (let me see if I have the gunsmith right) Novaks ultimate carry 1911 without the grip safety. I had the one piece mainspring housing.

Joe

KYCaster
09-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Jerry,

My guess why Colt messed with safety on the 1911 is because of the controversy of carrying it cocked and locked or carrying it with a chambered round and the hammer down. Add to that on the 70 series if the gun was dropped and lands on the muzzle it will fire if a round is chambered because of the inertia firing pin. That's why in my opinion.

I'm hearing the same thing about Ruger cylinders today on their single action. It's all quality control, which apparently sucks. Like I said elsewhere in another topic the name of the game today is money.

Jerry, you've seen (let me see if I have the gunsmith right) Novaks ultimate carry 1911 without the grip safety. I had the one piece mainspring housing.

Joe


I always assumed the series 80 parts were designed to defeat the California drop test. Like I said before, I've seen enough of them fail that I don't trust them at all. None of my 1911s have the series 80 parts and all of them get an extra power firing pin spring.

I've seen one of the Novak mainspring housings on a Caspian frame. I really liked the way it looked and felt. The grip safety wasn't part of Browning's original design and was added when the army's procurement committee demanded it. :confused: Another usless piece of hardware IMO.

Most of the revolver manufacturers seem to have the same problem with cylinder dimensions. When I see a cylinder with throat diameters that vary by .003-.004, it makes me wonder if the other dimensions have the same sloppy tolerance. Like the center line of the chambers to the center line of the base pin. Or the location of the bolt notches. Is the base pin parallel to the chambers? I'm sure you've seen barrel/cylinder gaps that changed as you rotate the cylinder. What's really amazing when you think about it is that so many revolvers actually shoot pretty well in spite of the sloppy tolerances.



Russel...I'll offer a little advice. If you don't like your STI as it is then your best course of action is to trade it off for something you really like. Next best is to have it altered so you do have 100% confidence in it.

Like Yogi Berra said about baseball...."Half of this game is 90% mental." If you THINK you're limited by your equipment, then you probably are. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't like the gun you'll never do your best work with it.

Jerry

StarMetal
09-17-2009, 12:26 PM
I always assumed the series 80 parts were designed to defeat the California drop test. Like I said before, I've seen enough of them fail that I don't trust them at all. None of my 1911s have the series 80 parts and all of them get an extra power firing pin spring.

I've seen one of the Novak mainspring housings on a Caspian frame. I really liked the way it looked and felt. The grip safety wasn't part of Browning's original design and was added when the army's procurement committee demanded it. :confused: Another usless piece of hardware IMO.

Most of the revolver manufacturers seem to have the same problem with cylinder dimensions. When I see a cylinder with throat diameters that vary by .003-.004, it makes me wonder if the other dimensions have the same sloppy tolerance. Like the center line of the chambers to the center line of the base pin. Or the location of the bolt notches. Is the base pin parallel to the chambers? I'm sure you've seen barrel/cylinder gaps that changed as you rotate the cylinder. What's really amazing when you think about it is that so many revolvers actually shoot pretty well in spite of the sloppy tolerances.



Russel...I'll offer a little advice. If you don't like your STI as it is then your best course of action is to trade it off for something you really like. Next best is to have it altered so you do have 100% confidence in it.

Like Yogi Berra said about baseball...."Half of this game is 90% mental." If you THINK you're limited by your equipment, then you probably are. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't like the gun you'll never do your best work with it.

Jerry

Jerry,

I liked the look of that Novak setup too. I'm afraid that the 1911 is so emblazoned with safety featured that his setup is looked down at. Luger at first had grip safety and didn't him long to get rid of it. It's one of the things I didn't like about the new Springfield XD series. Always trying to satisfy the lawyers.

Joe

will-mo
09-18-2009, 09:30 AM
It appears you are describing a 3 point jam in the Colt. I used to get the same thing in my STI Trojan. There are a few things to look at. What are the specs on the ammo. OAL, Crimp? What kinda mags are you using? Some work better with SWC than others. Whats your bullet profile. Is it a H&G #68 or a Lee 200g SWC?

Are you getting a little dent on the brass, just under the mouth. Kinda like a smiley face? How much setback are you getting in a round.

I'd return the parts to the orginal pistols and work on the bullet/mag issues.

Will

Russel Nash
09-18-2009, 06:00 PM
Well...

I am just gonna run with what I got...which is the stoned upon sear and hammer that was in the Colt (not necessarily original to the Colt, because at one time, the original sear had cracked) inside the STI.

I have a steel match in the morning at the Arnold Rifle and Pistol Club, just south of St. Louis.

It will probably be just 6 stages at 25 rounds each stage...or 150 rounds min.

I have to go through my ammo here at the house to see what I have made up.

I might make another 100 or 200 or whatever is left of the Berry's plated SWC's, but seat them shorter say like to 1.16" . And hope that they then work better in the Colt.

It was quite the effort for me to get the guts all swapped around and for me to get the guns actually working right...errr... function checked okay.

So I am not in a real big rush to swap the guts back.

I will test fire the Trojan first thing at 8:30 AM tomorrow morning just to make sure it doesn't double or goes full auto. If it runs alright, then that's what I am shooting for the entire steel match.

If it doesn't run correctly, I will have my Beretta along with its .22LR conversion.

At least that way, it makes for some cheap shooting. :Fire:

I was in the chat room the other night, and somebody was saying that the feed lips on my 1911 mags might need tweaking in order to feed SWC's.

I will be glad to be rid of those Barry's plated bullets.

Russel Nash
09-18-2009, 06:02 PM
Good tips on the smiley face thing, will-mo.:drinks:

I'll be sure to take a look.

will-mo
09-18-2009, 08:16 PM
Russel Nash, did you also post something on the 1911 Website? There was a similar post. Those guys really helped me with my issues. Do a search and take a long read. If you can't get it going. Otto Comp took great care of me and resolved the issues.

I'll be at Bench Rest tomorrow for the IDPA Postal match. I'm sure I'll see you around the STL area matches. I always shoot my Trojan .45acp in CDP or Single Stack.

Will

Russel Nash
09-18-2009, 09:48 PM
Yeah, Will, that was me on one of the 1911 forums posting the exact same question.

My screenname there is Robert McCall. But, you, Will...you can call me Brad.

;-)

Yeah, who knows??? You might see me at an IDPA match at Arnold one of these days.

The third Saturday is always steel at Arnold. The match fee is only one dollar. Plus, Arnold is 32 miles closer to me, one way.....so that's like $12 in gas plus the fifteen dollar match fee at Benchrest....

Pffffttt....

Just let me know when they are holding a classifier match, Will, if would please.

Maybe I can actually make it out to a major IDPA match in 2010.

I guess I will be taking a peek at the Benchrest results tomorrow then. :lol:

Russel Nash
09-20-2009, 02:50 PM
Good shooting yesterday, Will.

Yeah, it turns out that I did have the bullets seated too long.

:groner:

I had some of the 1.25" long ones for after the steel plate match.

I had one jam in the Colt where I racked the round out, and then picked it up off the ground. I took a real good look at it and the case mouth had caused the jacket to get all wrinkled up as the bullet was trying to get pushed back into the case.

AAaaaa-Hhhhaaa!!

The 1.18" long ones ran fine in the Trojan yesterday.

I think I only have 10 or 11 of those Berry's SWC's left in the bullet tray of the 550.

So good riddens (riddance??)!!

Taking a closer look at how the bullets were setting in the case, I could almost swear that Berry's had made the bullets where the shoulder wasn't square or wasn't at the same height all the way around the bullets.

will-mo
09-20-2009, 11:55 PM
Thanks. I had a couple DUH moments, but for the most part I shot well. I figured not too bad since most of the guys had 11 round at the start of the stage (ESP and SSP). I usually have an extra reload in there...

I use the H&G #68 style profile and seat to 1.250 and crimp to .469. Works like a charm..

Hope to see you at the range sometime..

Will

Russel Nash
09-21-2009, 12:14 AM
Once I get a good boolit lube recipe worked out, I will try loading up some 200 gr Lead SWC's and some 225-ish Lead Round Nose's and see if the LSWC's will run in the Colt.

I am pretty sure the LRN's will run 100% .

If the LSWC's won't run in the Colt... hmm... looks like I will be selling that Lyman mould.

The other alternative is to buy a second STI Trojan......:bigsmyl2:

And then offload the Colt somewhere or just make it a safe queen....:roll:

StarMetal
09-21-2009, 11:15 AM
Russell,

I copied two pages out of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book The Colt .45 Automatic. Shows how to throat the barrel. You should buy that book or other books that have been recommended. They open up a whole new field for you with the 1911.

Joe

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/scan0002.jpg

Notice that barrel fit onto the frame data. Contrary to popular belief that barrel breech face at the bottom is not suppose to be even with the feed ramp upper edge. So if you do this work don't change that if yours is correct and do nothing to the feed ramp except polish it without changing it's shape.

Mk42gunner
10-01-2009, 05:17 AM
This may be heresy, but I don't believe a 1911 needs a major throat job to feed correctly.

Here is why- with the feed ramp smooth and the right gap between the barrel and frame I had a Remington Rand issued to me that would feed anything even empty cases all day long using Wilson or Chip McCormick magazines.

Robert

p.s. I know it probably went to Bill Clinton's Slag Heap in the Sky, but if anybody finds a Remington Rand 1911-A1 S/N 2225478 let me know.

StarMetal
10-01-2009, 10:17 PM
This may be heresy, but I don't believe a 1911 needs a major throat job to feed correctly.

Here is why- with the feed ramp smooth and the right gap between the barrel and frame I had a Remington Rand issued to me that would feed anything even empty cases all day long using Wilson or Chip McCormick magazines.

Robert

p.s. I know it probably went to Bill Clinton's Slag Heap in the Sky, but if anybody finds a Remington Rand 1911-A1 S/N 2225478 let me know.


Robert,

You will find a rare bird like that occasionally. How did it feed with military magazines or Colt magazines? Wilson and McCormick magazines are highly specialized.

Joe

davidalyn
10-09-2009, 10:22 PM
Get rid of the Berrys 200 grainers.

Load H&G #68 200 grain LSWC and seat to 1.250 and crimp to .469.

This load works well in my Colts, Springfield, Kimber, Dan Wessons and even a Para or two.

What are you using for magazines? Chip McCormick Shooting Stars or Power mags work well with 200 grain SWCs.

legend
10-10-2009, 08:29 PM
I had dave lauck at d&l sports build me a longslide 45 single stack on a caspian frame years ago for uspsa;because i paid for quality thats what i got...

33000 rds without a burp,then i didnt have time to gauge all my brass and it did burp(split brass i had loaded). after that 18600 rds and i stopped counting,probably upwards of 20000 since in local matches...no burps. all swc for years.

lesson? dont try so hard to make cheep work,do it right the first time and dont look back.

Want to see quality? find daves website,read what people say about his guns.


I would never buy and wear gear from a company on a MABE.Thats me i am funny about paying to advertise for some company,seams like they should give me the gear,or pay me to wear it....

my 2cents worth

ELFEGO BACA
10-13-2009, 01:04 AM
My series 70 Colt Government Model runs A ok with 200 grains SWC cast in a Lyman mold.

Russel Nash
10-19-2009, 12:36 PM
legend wrote:


I would never buy and wear gear from a company on a MABE.Thats me i am funny about paying to advertise for some company,seams like they should give me the gear,or pay me to wear it....



I've been away from the forum for too long. I had to go back and re-read this thread.

I guess you are commenting on my idea of the STI contigency program.

I'm sorry, but you lost me there with the "MABE" . Is that supposed to be a "maybe"???

And for what it is worth... the STI Contigency program applies to all IDPA state championship matches, but...BUTTT!!! not USPSA state sectional matches.

In IDPA...well... let me just say that it is a smaller pond with fewer sharks, so I have more of a chance winning some "money" back if I ever do go back to shooting IDPA...or ever make it to some IDPA state championships or regionals.

Switching gears here a bit....

In a way, I am kinda disgusted by what is now considered the norm with people's attitudes/approaches to 1911's.

From another forum, another poster just as disgusted/cynical about 1911's described it best when he said it was "self-licking ice cream cone" .

How plunking down $3K for a single stacked 1911 became the norm or something to be admired/envied....I'll never know.....:???:

Different strokes for different folks... I suppose....

KYCaster
10-19-2009, 07:59 PM
In a way, I am kinda disgusted by what is now considered the norm with people's attitudes/approaches to 1911's.

From another forum, another poster just as disgusted/cynical about 1911's described it best when he said it was "self-licking ice cream cone" .

How plunking down $3K for a single stacked 1911 became the norm or something to be admired/envied....I'll never know.....:???:

Different strokes for different folks... I suppose....


Well Russel, you should know by now that if you want to run 'n gun with the big dogs you have to spend some big bucks. How are you ever going to beat Leatham with a lousy thousand dollar gun??? :kidding:

And that "self-licking ice cream cone" analogy doesn't hold water. I have yet to see a 1911 that will pull it's own trigger.

Therein lies the rub....too many shooters are convinced that deficiencies in their equipment is the reason for their poor performance but, no matter how much you pay for the gun, it's the "nut that holds the handle" that's responsible for the results. Trade guns with Leatham and shoot a match against him and see how bad he kicks your butt. There are plenty of reasons why he is where is and we are where we are, and none of them have anything to do with how much our guns cost.

In order to successfully shoot the action games your gun must meet three criteria....It has to be comfortable for you to shoot, it has to be accurate enough to make the most demanding shot you'll encounter and it has to go BANG every time you pull the trigger. Accuracy is no big deal...three inches at 25 yds shouldn't be a problem for a decent 1911 and that's all you need for IPSC and IDPA. Reliability is more important than accuracy and a little harder to find, but is available on a budget. Comfort is right up there with reliability...if a gun hurts me every time I pull the trigger I won't do my best work with it.

So where do you look for a gun that will help you shoot to the limit of your ability? On the one hand you have the Mega-Corp manufacturer...if you have a complaint with the product the nice lady who answers the phone may tell you that's within their specs and you can suck up and bust as far as they're concerned. On the opposite end of the spectrum are the custom smiths...the ones that get 3 to 4 grand for a gun that's nothing less than a work of art (in some cases worth every penny he can wring out of you). What can you expect to get for the extra money? If you have a legitimate complaint, he'll fix the problem...free in most cases. Something you don't like that doesn't affect the function????....he'll change it, usually for cost of labor. And, the most compelling reason to pay him the big bucks is the "COOL FACTOR". 8-) If your shooting sucks, you may as well look good doin' it.

Bottom line is...for less than $1000.00, there are off-the-shelf guns available that will allow 95% of us to shoot to the limit of our ability. The only caveat here is comfort...for most of us, the basic 1911 grip can stand some improvement [smilie=1: , and I refuse to pay big bucks for a gun that I know I'll attack with a Dremel tool.

So what you spend for the gun has nothing to do with the scores you shoot. Most of us would be better off spending less than $1000 for a Springfield, Armscor, Rock River, Charles Daley and take that two grand we didn't spend on the gun and buy ammo to practice with.

But then, that sounds like a lot of work.....and that Dave Dawson Mega-Blaster MkIV sure does look nice.....and he builds it on an STI frame....so I could wear that pretty Red, White and Blue shirt....and the guys at the range would be sooooo envious..........

Jerry

Russel Nash
10-20-2009, 10:41 AM
I know that was tongue in cheek above and said with just a pinch of sarcasm/facetiousness, but....really the self-licking icecream cone part from that other forum's thread...well, I think that guy was talking about the 1911 manufacturer/1911 gunsmith relationship.

He was probably of the opinion that for Pete's sake, for $1K, you should get an Okay gun something like a B plus or A minus gun...but realistically what you get instead is a solid B minus gun...or on a scale of 1 to 10 , it would be a 6.5.

That poster fella was fed up, I think, with the notion that you have to buy a thousand dollar gun first and then have a "smith" tinker with it, which would add another $400 to $800 to the cost of the gun.

It was like there was this incestous/inbred relationship between the 1911 manufacturers and the gunsmiths.... I don't know if incestous/inbred is quite the right term....Hmmn... maybe symbiotic relationship, would be a better way to put it.

His point, I think, was that if the gun companies built them right the first time, which they should be doing at the $1,000 price point, then the gunsmiths wouldn't have so much work.

Anywhoo... I hope that made sense.

As far as competing against Rob Leatham....well...<sigh> yeah, I do know it's the Indian not the arrow.

I would have to put in thousands of hours of practice time to get anywhere near as good as Rob.

To me, that just kinda sucks all the fun out of it.

Matches are my like mini-vacations away from the work-a-day world. A reprieve of sorts.

I have other irons in the fire right now, and that level of dedication/motivation just ain't gonna be there.

Oh, yeah, I jumped on that Trojan when I did because I had just coincidentally browsed the STI website and noticed there were NOT any stainless ones listed. I have Crow's Eye's, so stainless is my thing. I think I snatched up the last one that Shooter's Connection (Chuck Bradley) had.

And for what it's worth, having shot the Beretta for so long, with those 20 round mags, I just can't get warmed up to the 1911 again and having to do so many reloads. Jeeshhh....

A Beretta is about a $600 to $800 gun. And mine just run and run and run.

Boz330
10-20-2009, 11:08 AM
The gun has to go bang every time you pull the trigger. That is job #1. As Jerry pointed out the average 1911 is plenty accurate for spray and pray. I've built a pile of guns for IPSC over the years and they all shot better than I could. My primary concern was reliability first and a good trigger second and sights that were comfortable for me. I really didn't care if the thing rattled when you shook it.
I have built up several Colts over the years and stock with hardball ammo (which is what they were designed for) they shot OK. For semi wadcutters they had to be modified. I just got tired of paying big bucks for a gun and then throwing away half the parts. It is easier to buy the frame and slide and put in the parts that you want.
I used the Lyman 200gr for awhile but the HG-68 just works better. For reliable feeding the recoil spring, magazine lips, extractor, along with a taper crimp and OAL all enter into the mix besides the throating and polishing to make it work.
I don't quite share Jerry's disdain for Colt, but there are better, out of the box guns with some of the ergonomic niceties already installed for the price of a Colt. And I can build one with everything I like for way less than a Colt.

Bob

Russel Nash
10-21-2009, 04:47 PM
STI doesn't make/sell just a stainless steel frame and/or slide to build a gun with, from scratch.

KYCaster
10-21-2009, 09:38 PM
I spent a few minutes perusing Gunbroker and found at least a dozen 1911's priced less than $1000 that I consider suitable for IDPA/USPSA competition up to at least Master level.

Right from the box they're ready for IDPA and would need only an S&A mag well/mainspring housing to be competitive with anybody's custom gun in USPSA.

Anything you spend over that $1000 is just for cosmetics and name recognition...it won't buy you a better score.

Jerry

StarMetal
10-21-2009, 10:59 PM
I spent a few minutes perusing Gunbroker and found at least a dozen 1911's priced less than $1000 that I consider suitable for IDPA/USPSA competition up to at least Master level.

Right from the box they're ready for IDPA and would need only an S&A mag well/mainspring housing to be competitive with anybody's custom gun in USPSA.

Anything you spend over that $1000 is just for cosmetics and name recognition...it won't buy you a better score.

Jerry

Jerry you are probably right on the Gunbroker prices, but were they bid guns or buy now prices? Don't forget if they are bid they will more then likely get bid up higher, especially when I'm buying.
:groner:

Joe

Russel Nash
10-22-2009, 04:43 AM
And if it doesn't say STI on the frame or has an STI serial number, sorry, no dice, it doesn't qualify you or it for the STI contigency program.

I have probably explained it before in this thread, but I will explain it again:

Shoot an STI framed gun at any USPSA area or Nat's level event OR just an IDPA state level event, win your division/class, you get $350 worth of STI retail product.

I am 37. I hear when most folks hit 40 that's when their eyes really start to go downhill.

So I am looking into getting my name thrown into the hat for the contigency money so that by the time I am 40, I will have enough STI products, like a slide and a frame to get an Open gun put together...where my aging eyes will be more suited to the red dot of a C-more red dot "scope" on an open gun.

Shooting guns gets expensive. Shooting guns in competitions gets even more expensive. At least with the STI contigency program, I might have one small...slim chance of making some of my hard earned bucks back.

Boz330
10-22-2009, 09:06 AM
Russel,
You should be good for more than 40 especially with glasses. I'm 63 and BPCR has been my game for the last 5 years and it has just been the last 2 that I've had to go to a Malcolm Scope. IPSC and IDPA targets are close enough that your eyes won't be the limiting factor.
Hell Jerry is older than dirt and he still finds an acorn every now and then, especially since I dropped out of handgun shooting. I used to beat him like a red headed step child back when I was serious. He does pretty good now though.:kidding:

Bob

TAWILDCATT
10-22-2009, 10:04 AM
I have a AMT longslide conversion.had a trigger job done.I use cheap mags $6.50.
I hand load LSWC and never had a jam.it does feed empties.
I load 200 gr SWC with 3.6 of 700X and roll crimp.if you get the bullet length rright they should feed forget about AOL.I crimp in front band.my boolite is a long nose lee.I also have a short nose I have used.
you can adjust weight on trigger by bending the sear spring.my guns are 3.5 lb
pull.I have a AMT hardballer and a FED ORD 1911.
the nose has to hit the top of chamber which forces it down and lines the case up.
at least it works for me.I also believe the roll crimp helps.after all the taper crimp is a late design.

Russel Nash
10-22-2009, 11:02 AM
Maybe to some degree, yeah, at 40 the visual acuity begins to slide, but I think what it is...is the eyeball's lens begins to lose its flexibility, so making that transition from overlaying front and rear sights onto a target some 15 yards away and trying to keep some clarity to one or the other, quickly is what aging eyes have a problem with.

Hence it is easier to shoot with a red dot.

Yeah, Jerry is an alright shot... I suppose...;)

KYCaster
10-22-2009, 11:37 AM
Yeah Bob, you're one of the reasons I started PRICTICING. I was tired of being left in your dust. So then you QUIT just when I was breathing down your neck. :-(

So now Bob has gotten one of his buddies into BPCR and Ken is starting to kick his butt pretty regular. Looks like a pattern developing here. Are you gonna quit BPCR and start hanging out at the arcade??? :kidding: Just yankin' back.



Ya know Russel, you can buy one of those STI shirts for about 35 bucks....a lot less than a tricked out gun would cost. [smilie=1:



Joe, those were the buy it now prices.



Wildcat, I don't recall ever seeing a factory loaded 45ACP with a roll crimp, so I don't think it's a recent innovation.

Jerry

Boz330
10-22-2009, 04:37 PM
[QUOTE=KYCaster;697452]Yeah Bob, you're one of the reasons I started PRICTICING. I was tired of being left in your dust. So then you QUIT just when I was breathing down your neck. :-(

So now Bob has gotten one of his buddies into BPCR and Ken is starting to kick his butt pretty regular. Looks like a pattern developing here. Are you gonna quit BPCR and start hanging out at the arcade??? :kidding: Just yankin' back.



Ya know Russel, you can buy one of those STI shirts for about 35 bucks....a lot less than a tricked out gun would cost. [smilie=1:



Joe, those were the buy it now prices.

OOOHHH rough crowd around here.
BTW Kenn is shooting the Long Range Muzzle Loading rifles, not cartridge. He did leave the world shoot with a medal though. Not bad for his second year in the discipline. He has been busting my chops about getting a Gibbs and getting ready for the worlds at Beasly (spelling) England. 2K right now is a bit of a stretch and the nearest 1000yd range is at Atterbury, and at the next world shoot they are going out to 1200yds. 600 gives me fits on that Ram.
Heard they are shooting some IPSC leagues at the old Sport Shooters Indoor range on Thur nights, you doing that?

Bob