My moulds are too heavy!

[anachronism]

I just had to cut a casting session short. I was casting 38 wadcutters from a 4 cavity Lyman mould along with 230 LFNs from a 4 cavity LBT mould, when I started having back spasms. The problem seems to be the heavy iron Lyman mould, which seems to weigh a ton next to the aluminum LBT mould. I ladle cast because I can't seem to get satisfactory bullets from my Lyman Mag20 bottom pour. Ladle casting requires a certain amount of mould manipulation to accomplish, and my back has informed me that it has had enough of this nonsense. Has anyone else been through this, and what did you end up doing? I've already fired off an e-mail to Veral, asking about 150 gr SWC or OWC moulds, but I really don't want to spend the money right now. Suggestions?

[GLynn41]

back brace-- work on making your back muscles stronger--I ladle too--and rest mold on the edge of the pot until I am ready to cut the sprue

[Crash_Corrigan]

A nice thin sheet of aluminum on top of a brick rests under my Lee 4-20. I set down the mold and pull it out for each cavity. Let it cool a mite and then pick it up and open the sprue plate. Dump the boolits into a bucket of water and then back on the brick.

I work at a steady rythm and take frequent breaks. I hold the mold as little as possible but those H and G 4 holers are a bear.

Dang, I got hold fast.

[mold maker]

Been there and done that. 40 years on concrete floors, lifting 300# + in awkward positions have taken their toll.
Does your mag 20 have the adjustable mold shelf? Have you ever experienced spout freeze up? Do the spout and plunger valve have any crud partially blocking the flow?
I had to correct all these problems to get several molds to drop good quality.
If your able to get results with a ladle, You can approximate the same conditions with a bottom pour.
My Lyman bottom pour had a habit of freezing up. I had to raise the melt temp, and add a temperature (air flow) shield around the sides and back of the mold area of the pot.
Make sure the flow rate is as near as possible to that of your ladle, ie, clean spout and adjust flow screw.
Adjust the mold height so that the melt flow drops only a short distance to the sprue plate, as with the ladle.
Remember that there is a cycle speed difference in handling a ladle, verses the valve lever on the Mag 20.
I now consider my collection of cast iron ladles exactly that. They get rare use, and then not for production pouring. They have mostly been replaced with Stainless cookware from Wally World.
A quality, long leather apron allows me to work seated, with safety. Pot height is so that it's comfortable to see and pour while seated on a bar type stool, without stooping. Practice sitting erect without over extending your arms.
I can now comfortably cast for several hours before a break, and get the same quality I used to strain for.
We all seem more inclined to take what used to be, the easy way, until age or injury force us to seek a "new normal" way, to the same end.
If you insist on ladle pouring, re-think your body language and position while handling the constant weight in both hands. Provide protective equipment so that you can sit or lean on a stool, with the pot etc at a comfortable height. You wouldn't shoot from a painful and awkward position, so don't try casting in one.
For those of you who still have your youth, are bullet proof, and strong as a bear, the above advice applies to you also. It just may help keep you young, strong, and pain free, for a few years longer. You'll get OLD soon enough.

[c3d4b2]

I do not know if this applies, but thought I would add it just in case.

Are you casting in a comfortable position. At work we take ergonomics into consideration. You can work in an uncomfortable position for a little while with no bad effects, however more than a few minutes and the working condition will make you uncomfortable and if you continue it can have lasting effects.

Added......

Should have read the previous post sooner. Mold Maker is giving you great advice!

[Ben]

Maybe it is time to find the heavy iron Lyman mold a new home and see if you can find a similar design in a 6 cav. Lee design ? ?

Ben

[anachronism]

I had a 6 cavity Lee mould for a very short period. I was so dismayed by the poor quality it displayed, rough edges, a poorly finished sprue plate & a general "cheap" feel to it that I sold it on an auction. No more Lee moulds for me.

[hammerhead357]

Don't fight the mould. I use 8 and 10 cavity H & G moulds but I don't lift them very much. I have mould slides that work as heat sinks to avoid picking the moulds up.
In the book CAST BULLETS by Col. E H Harrison there are some pictures on pages 36 & 49 of how to rest a gang mould in order to reduce fatigue.
Also do find a more comfortable position to cast from. That will make a world of difference on your back....Wes

[runfiverun]

i built a sheet metal covered box that keeps the molds at the correct height from the spout bout 3/4" i then just drag the mold under the spout, and let it sit till it needs opened i open by hand and return the sprue right in the pot while the mold sits on the bench. i then pick it up and dump the boolits.
my pot dumps right at eye level so i don't have to stoop ever.
i also have a couple of pieces of carpet on the floor, my pop favors those foam mats that go together like a puzzle edge.

[Dale53]

I am a "Certified Old Fart" and can handle four cavity iron moulds with ease. I have no problem with six cavity aluminum moulds. However, I have one six cavity iron mould (H&G #251 dbl ended W/C) that just flat wears me out. It is a terrific mould and I get excellent bullets but it is just TOO DERN HEAVY!

Now, I bottom pour and get excellent results from everything from tiny .22 bullets all the way to 500++ grain bullets for the 45/90. I am talking match grade here, fellers. So, it can be done. You just have to learn how to bottom pour and things will get better for you.

I admit that my typical session lasts under two hours but when I start I don't stop until I have emptied my 22 lb pot (I leave one lb in the pot to reduce possible heat damage to the heating element).

When I was much younger, I could cast all week end (my record is 13,000 match quality 200 gr SWC's for the .45 ACP over a weekend). Now, 21 lbs of the same bullets gives me over 700 near perfect bullets. Since I am retired, I look at it as recreation and would rather do several easy sessions than one really heavy session. Frankly, these days I couldn't do a whole weekend of bullet casting. That is not a problem, however, I just do it differently:drinks:.

Bottom line, take the time to learn how to bottom pour and your body will thank you for it.

Dale53

[Bret4207]

I just haven't got the patience to learn to bottom pour, not yet anyway. You can't see, you can't feel...it's just foreign to me. I'll keep trying. There's no way I could cast sitting, no way!

I have a 10 cav H+G. It weighs a lot. I rest it on a board and fill it with a 1 lb Rowell ladle. Perfect boolits and lots of them.

[anachronism]

I did seriously try to cast with a bottom pour. I even replaced my original LEE pot with a really expensive Lyman because I thought the problem might be there. I believe I tried everything to make it work, but I never did get consistent enough results to please me. My ladle work however, gets me the quality I need. It sounds like I need to alter my casting style a bit. I guess the best place to start is with an absolutely clean bench so I have plenty of room to work. From there I guess it's just experimentation.

[358wcf]

Gents- take heed the wise words you read on this thread! We are not getting any younger, stronger, or tougher- God help us if we don't get smarter!
Ergonomics requires we do everything we can to minimize effort and stress in what we do- at the office we spare no expense to be ergonomically correct- how can we do less at home?
I'm having a birthday this month, and looking back, I see 2 hearing aides, trifocal glasses, many broken bones, shoulder surgery, back surgery, and just this week, knee surgery. Doc did the arthroscopic surgery on the knee, but now tells me it is so bad inside to plan on total replacement within 6 months- damn, getting old is a pain!
Take care of yourself- act safely in everything you do, and avoid pain and stress at all times. This stuff is cumulative, and eventually comes back to haunt you--
I am learning to cast from a high stool, loading that way too. Standing is okay for a short while-

358wcf[smilie=1:

[hammerhead357]

I cast boolits while standing and have forever. Within the last 2 years my heels have started bothering me (heel spurs), I was talking to a buddy who sells boots, about my problem.
He sold me a pair of work boots that have a great amount of cushion in them and I have been wearing heel cushion pads with all of my footwear which has made it to where I can stand and cast again for several hours.
I don't lift my H & G moulds very much, I learned about that more than 20 years ago. I lift them from the preheat hot plate to the heat sink under the bottom pour spout and then don't have to lift them again untill I set them back on the hot plate. This makes a world of difference in a days casting.
I guess the key here is to work smart not hard...Wes

[StarMetal]

runfiverun, the guy said he ladle pours.

Bret, I'd never ever go back to a ladle. It's one thing that 45 2.1 and I disagree on big time. If my groups increases by 1 inch because of a bottom pour, so be it. I never ladle pour nor will I ever pan lube again. Bottom pours aren't any trouble, at least mine isn't. Like Dale I cast from 22's up to 45-70 and my 50 cal Maxi-Balls. This will start some hollering, but I think ladle/bottom pour is another casting myth.

Joe

[carpetman]

Sometimes when you make a change--even if an improvement it takes time to adjust. For example my closet light had been operated by one of those pull chains---you know where you are in the dark and reaching up feeling around for the pull chain. The swith broke so instead of replacing it with another pull chain, I wired a switch on the wall where you can turn on the light go into a lit closet and turn off light when you leave. Instanly obvious a better way of doing things. I'll admit I did walk in a couple times and reach for the pull chain---old habits. When I went to bottom pour after having ladle cast over 15 years---I knew instantly it was a better deal. I'd never go back to ladle casting. BTW Dale 53 casts some pretty bullets.

[Dale53]

Carpetman;
Thanks for the kind words. It was a pleasure to watch you shoot my carefully crafted bullets through the Bullseye! We'll have to do that AGAIN!

Dale53

[StarMetal]

Sometimes when you make a change--even if an improvement it takes time to adjust. For example my closet light had been operated by one of those pull chains---you know where you are in the dark and reaching up feeling around for the pull chain. The swith broke so instead of replacing it with another pull chain, I wired a switch on the wall where you can turn on the light go into a lit closet and turn off light when you leave. Instanly obvious a better way of doing things. I'll admit I did walk in a couple times and reach for the pull chain---old habits. When I went to bottom pour after having ladle cast over 15 years---I knew instantly it was a better deal. I'd never go back to ladle casting. BTW Dale 53 casts some pretty bullets.

You are so right Ray. I knew instantly too when I got a bottom pour that I was a fool to have struggled with a ladle all those years. Waaaaay way too slow. I started out casting 45 Colt bullets. Ladle pour, pan lube, and one of those Lee pound through sizers. Then I bought me a RCBS Pro Melt and a Lyman luber/sizer...what a major difference.

Joe

[carpetman]

Dale--Watching me shoot your carefully crafted bullets through the bullseye---din't know you were watching that one shot when I did that. Actually I think Ross aimed at wrong target. BTW I didnt mention it but that was the first time I ever used those type sights. Yea that's it--unfamilar sights. You bet a redo is a no brainer.

[Bret4207]

I struggled for months with a Lee BP Dripomatic. It just sucked swamp water, no two ways about it. Now I have a couple of SAECO BPs. I'm trying, I really am, but 30+ years of producing beautiful boolits with a ladle, and rather quickly if I do say so, has me struggling with the BP. Some people are just in tune with one method and find another hard to adjust to. If I find the BP doesn't work, again, I will happily continue on pouring well filled, low weight variation boolits with a ladle.

There is no one "right" method of pouring a boolit, what works for someone is whats right.

[mold maker]

Hee Hee. I used to go everywhere on a bicycle, and thought it was cool. Now I have grandchildren riding bicycles. I tried the other day to ride one of theirs, and stayed upright alright, but what's with all those gadgets on the handle bars, and where's the breaks? Those itty bitty tires scared me, and the peddles turn too fast.
Long story short, like bicycles, casting has changed drastically since I first started. Some changes, I've kept up with, and some I haven't. If I had to go back to ladle pouring, I could still do it, but it would be harder, and less fun than I remember. I can still ride a bicycle, but why?

[KCSO]

We use to cast with 10 cavity moulds for the PD and we had a door spring suspended from the ceiling and a hook and eye on the mould. Hook the mould to the spring and hold on to the handles.

[Dale53]

KCSO;
Now, THAT makes sense. I struggle with a six cavity H&G mould and really put off using it when I really should be running bullets just because of it's weight. It IS a fine mould and works very well but by the time I have run 20 lbs or so I am TIRED! Of course, I am a "Certified Old Fart" and probably wouldn't mind it if I were twenty years younger, but I'm not, so I do:mrgreen:

Dale53

[mtgrs737]

I find that Red River Rick's (KAL) Lyman four cavity handles reduce the effects of the heavy moulds, I'm not sure just why but I sold all my Lyman handles after trying a pair from KAL. I had both the old nutcracker and the new Saeco style, I suggest trying a pair of KAL handles before buying a different mould.

[mtgrs737]

We use to cast with 10 cavity moulds for the PD and we had a door spring suspended from the ceiling and a hook and eye on the mould. Hook the mould to the spring and hold on to the handles.

You can also use a couple of pulleys and a counter balance weight so you can adjust the balance of the mould you are using. I learned this years ago while working with an industrial spot welder.

[canyon-ghost]

I guess I haven't run into that yet. Sometimes they feel heavy but, I'm only using two cavity molds with a small ladle set up. I did, though, get pretty comfortable when casting a single cavity hollowpoint, pulled my 24" barstool right up to the table and just sat there and poured away.
Seems the game may be to pour as many as you can quickly but, I seem to do alright, run out of powder before I run out of bullets. Guess rhythm figures into it. I do notice the backache when I pour fast standing up, too much of having to stay slightly bent over, always leaning forward.
The 24" barstool lets me keep my feet on the floor, not too high.

Maybe, when the money gets better, I can try bottom pour. Right now, same routine has to serve me fine.[smilie=s:

[Dale53]

Maybe, when the money gets better, I can try bottom pour. Right now, same routine has to serve me fine.[smilie=s:

Truly, the important thing is that you are casting! We all have our preferences, and that is ok (whatever spins your propeller) but the important thing is to DO IT!

I cast a pot yesterday and today I was sizing and I noticed that I had a "smile on my face". A feller can't have too many bullets, doncha know? I would like to have 10,000 ready by spring (although I'll be shooting through the winter, also).

You understand, fellers and gals, that I have nothing but pure motives, here. I am "picking up all of these dirty, nasty, dangerous to the enviroment, lead (ugh-h-h!) wheel weights and am converting them to VERY useful objects d'art (bullets). Yeah, that's it, it's for the children...

Dale53