Finally made an offside spindle spider

[Buckshot]

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All finished up. I had a chip pan FULL when I got done. I put brass caps on the 3/8-24 bolts, and have since thinned the nuts by half.

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This is a piece of 3.25" hot rolled 4140 from a longer piece I'd bought to make a juicecan cannon quite some time back. The need for the outboard spider outweighed the cannon by a long shot, and who knew when I'd ever get to it? I had chips in my hair, shirt pocket, floor, and on the reloading bench behind me. My poor ole 11" Logan was grunting!

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Almost done boring 2.75" deep x 1.687". On the outboard end the spindle is threaded 1.75"-20 tpi. I think I needed 2 more passes at this point. I made the bar for the threading insert and got to use a spin indexer I've had for 5-6 years, and have never used. Finally got to use it for something as the 1/2" square bar had to lean 15*. Making tools to make tools, ha!

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Swapped the piece end for end and boring the outboard end to 2.25". On the right I was taking a light skim cut to check the ID to find out where I was, size wise. Getting close. Another first was after it was all finished being turned I got to finally use some X blocks (legitimately) to set it up on the surface plate to scribe for the bolt locations.

The main immediate impetous for the outboard spider was pretty much just to cut the end of a barrel for it's military sight. I think it was 7-8 years ago my brother gave me a VZ24 he'd bought at Big 5, and the barrel was trashed. Externally the rifle was in super condition. I wanted to keep it that way so ordered a new military stepped barrel short chambered 308 from Brownells. I had my gunsmith install the barrel and then blue it. The end of the barrel had to be turned down to accept the front sight. So, I needed the spider.

Of course, now that I have it there are several other projects I can accomplish, but the VZ24 will be the first thing for which it'll be used. I've got some other machine work stacked up but hopefully by the end of next week I can get to the barrel work.

................Buckshot

[GLL]

Rick:

I just had to open this one just to find out what in heck an offside spindle spider was !

I appreciate fine craftsmanship even when I do not what it is ! :) :)

Jerry

[Trailblazer]

That is a fine piece! I made mine from a pipe nipple.

[GLL]

Rick:

Why is it termed "offside" ?

It looks like it threads onto the headstock spindle???

You do remember I am a geologist not a machinist ! :) :)

Jerry

[lathesmith]

That's some purty work Buckshot! It looks like that 4140 machines pretty nicely. Be sure and show us a pic of it in action, when you get around to it.
I made a little spindle spider for my 13x, it helps to stablize those 3ft sticks of steel when turning at high speed.
lathesmith

[Buckshot]

Rick:

Why is it termed "offside" ?

It looks like it threads onto the headstock spindle???

You do remember I am a geologist not a machinist ! :) :)

Jerry

...........Jerry, more correctly it may be called 'outboard'? That 'Offside' remark may still be a bit of horseyness :-) as it's the right side (of a horse), or the side away from you. On a lathe it's the lefthand side of the spindle, so I also used the term 'outboard'. And yes it threads onto the spindle, but not the right, or business side. If you stick something long through the spindle, on the right side it's gripped by a chuck or collet. Maybe 3" of bite. The remaining length just flops, and if it's a barrel and has an action screwed on you don't want it flopping.

............lathesmith " I made a little spindle spider for my 13x, it helps to stablize those 3ft sticks of steel when turning at high speed."

Yeah I made a simple collar out of aluminum for the end of the collet closer tube and used 1/4-28 bolts. It was kind of a PITA. I don't remember now why I took it off. The longest pieces I turn are 3' and it may sound dumb but I just roll up a paper towel and stuff it into the end of the collet closer tube around the rod :-)

When I get a chance to use it I'll take a couple pics.

..............Buckshot

[garandsrus]

Buckshot,

Did you use gaschecks for the end of the bolts? :)

John

[ph4570]

Nice machine work there.

I have had a need for such a device on my Clausing. I had pondered making one, still intend to "someday". The kludge I did for the occasional need was use a tapered rubber stopper with center hole. Crude it but got me through the short task. I have a long work bench to the left on my lathe. There is a progect I am pondering that would machine then wack off 2" chunks of brass rod. Years ago I snagged few FREE 8 foot lengths of brass rod. If I get to the project I believe I will build a runway on the work bench with one or two supports with bearings. Of course this is all someday.

[Dutchman]

You do nice work, Buckshot. I think maybe you have the magic touch.


Dutch

[dragonrider]

Nice work Rick, making a spider for the left side of my Clausing spindle is on my to do list, although there are not threads on it, it will have to be held with set screws as is the collar for the 5C collet closer.

[deltaenterprizes]

Looks great.
I have one on my "to do list" also. I am a little closer since my neighbor gave me a piece of pipe that almost fits the outside of my spindle. I just need to make a bushing to make up the difference and drill and tap the holes. That way saves a lot of time and saves material. I did a similar thing to make a spider to go over a barrel when it is spinning in a steady rest.

[Buckshot]

..............garandsrus, "Buckshot Did you use gaschecks for the end of the bolts?"

Nope. Turned down some .375" brass to .340" with a 0.100" long X 0.100" OD stub. The bolt was faced off flat, then drilled with a #39 bit. Then they were soldered on.

..............dragonrider, "Nice work Rick, making a spider for the left side of my Clausing spindle is on my to do list, although there are not threads on it, it will have to be held with set screws as is the collar for the 5C collet closer."

Thanks, I appreciate the comment. Does the outboard end of your Clausing's spindle have a keyslot? If so I'd make the spider a nice slide fit to the spindle, and if you don't have broches have a local shop broach the slot in your spider. Then drill a hole in the shaft of the spider for a setscrew. Mark the hole location on the spindle and just drill a dimple on the spindle to accept the nose of the setscrew. You won't want to mark up the OD of the spindle, and it would easily handle any likely thrust down the spindle's axis.

.................deltaenterprizes Looks great.
I have one on my "to do list" also. I am a little closer since my neighbor gave me a piece of pipe that almost fits the outside of my spindle. I just need to make a bushing to make up the difference and drill and tap the holes. That way saves a lot of time and saves material. I did a similar thing to make a spider to go over a barrel when it is spinning in a steady rest.

Thanks! I got the piece of steel off E-Bay quite some time back. If the person will use the USPS flat rate boxes you can find some pretty good deals since shipping won't cost twice the metal price :-) I sure didn't need to make it out of 4140 and would have MUCH prefered to use 12L14. I could have been done in half the time and had a mirror finish to boot!

I need to make a steady rest spider too. In fact I need ot make a bigger steady! I bought a 12x12x1" piece of structural steel to make it out of. I have a 4.5" x 14" piece of 1045 to make a beer can morter, but my 'issue' steady won't handle that OD. HA, I have projects to make so I can make my projects!

...................Buckshot

[Beekeeper]

Empty beer cans I hope?

Jim

[deltaenterprizes]

Buckshot:
I picked up a BIG roller bearing at the scrap yard to make steady, now you make wish I had picked up 2. What brand lathe do you have? I have a steady for a Pratt & Whitney 12x30 that you may be able to modify.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot:
I picked up a BIG roller bearing at the scrap yard to make steady, now you make wish I had picked up 2. What brand lathe do you have? I have a steady for a Pratt & Whitney 12x30 that you may be able to modify.

..............I have an 11" Logan.

...............Buckshot

[andremajic]

Which logan model is it?

How did you thread the spindle of your logan? Did it come that way?

I've already drawn up the plans for my logan 922 spider, but I had to make it so that it fits inside of the spindle opening, because there's not much to grab on the outside of it.

I'd be happier to have it on the outside so that it will take up less of the I/D space when it comes to bull barrels.

Making any more to sell? :D

Andy.

[Buckshot]

Which logan model is it?

How did you thread the spindle of your logan? Did it come that way?

I've already drawn up the plans for my logan 922 spider, but I had to make it so that it fits inside of the spindle opening, because there's not much to grab on the outside of it.

I'd be happier to have it on the outside so that it will take up less of the I/D space when it comes to bull barrels.

Making any more to sell? :D

Andy.

.............Andy, my 11 Logan was actually made by Powermatic (Houdaille Industries) in 1981. They bought Logan lathes in the early '70's IIRC. It's model number is 11-11011-L00/H which means it's an 11" model with an L00 spindle nose and hardened bed. The bed is pure 11" Logan but the headstock and drive is different. I think the spindle is the same, as Logan offered threaded, L00 and D1-4 camlock spindle noses. The left (outboard) end of the spindle was already threaded 20 tpi. Don't know if it came that way from the factory or not, but the 5C collet closer stop plate threads on. Maybe a Powermatic thing?

The spider I made only threads on 0.600" deep, and you really shouldn't need more as you're not going to be swinging much weight out there. All you should need is a good snug slip fit on the end of the spindle, with a machined shoulder to butt the end of the spindle. Drill and tap the shank of the spider for a set screw and then mark the spindle and drill a dimple for the nose of the setscrew to go into. You don't want to mark the spindle's surface. The spindle is hardened, but a cup faced setscrew could possibly mar it.

You could also make the spider's shank a mild press fit and use a drawbar through the spindle to pull it on. Machine a shoulder as a stop on the inside of the spider. Get a piece of 1/2" steel threaded 1/2-13 long enough to go through the spindle. Weld a bar across one end to bear against the face of the spider. On the right hand end use another bar with a 1/2" hole in it to bear against the spindle nose. Maybe put a piece of brass shim under each side that touches the spindle nose? Put on a heavy washer and a nut and draw the spider up onto the spindle.

As I said, it only needs to go on a short way. To remove it, should you decide to have a press fit, have a 1/2" hole drilled across it (outboard of the end of the spindle of course) and place a piece of 1/2" steel bar across the spider through the 2 holes. Use a piece of 1" gas or water pipe with a brass cap and a smart rap will drive it off.

My Logan's spindle nose won't directly accept a morse taper. It instead has some 'Logan specific' taper that requires an adaptor. To use a MT dead center in the nose, or my ER40 collet chuck reguires this adaptor. It also has a spindle nose adaptor for 5C collets. To get these adaptors out I use the suggested 1" pipe with brass cap to knock'em back out.

..............Buckshot

[andremajic]

I had figured I would make it a tight fit, but press fit with the method that you described sounds even better!

Now I just have to figure out if I want the gear cover to stay put or remove it to give more room for the spider. I had given some thought about removing the gear cover and slowly grinding the hole a bigger diameter, so that it would clear opening and closing without removing the spider. Cast iron is pretty easy to grind...

I also have one of those proprietary spindle adaptor for my logan. My model 922 was made circa 1945 and still going strong. I use an old broomstick to knock my adaptor out.

When I get home from deployment it will be fun to make chips again. I miss working in my garage.

[deltaenterprizes]

I finished my spider Friday . The pipe just need a .050'' bushing that I made from a bearing housing from an exercise bicycle. 25 ACP cases make nice brass ends for 1/4'' bolts.

[Buckshot]

I finished my spider Friday . The pipe just need a .050'' bushing that I made from a bearing housing from an exercise bicycle. 25 ACP cases make nice brass ends for 1/4'' bolts.

..............What, no pictures? I love pictures :-)

.............Buckshot

[deltaenterprizes]

It ain't as purdy as yourn, but it will be functional. I can't stand at the lathe and mill for long anymore so things are quick and dirty except where precision counts.
I have so many projects I don't think I will live long enough to complete them. It is getting a little cooler now so I may be able to spend a little more time in that part or the shop.

[xr650]

Buckshot,
Nice spider.
Glad to see you made a 4 jaw.

We bought a new hollow spindle a couple of years ago. The hero salesman ordered a spider for the back side, instead of a backing plate for the chuck (which he also ordered with the machine). The spider is a 3 jaw. What a pain in the scrotale area that is to dial in.

[dragonrider]

" Does the outboard end of your Clausing's spindle have a keyslot?"

Nope, no key slot either. Just about an inch of spindle, smooth inside and out.
If I had to slot it I could with this handy device.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/TCR%20Monobloc/th_TCRMONOBLOC038.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/TCR%20Monobloc/?action=view&current=TCRMONOBLOC038.jpg)

[TAWILDCATT]

that was interesting as I never heard it called that and I graduated from Wentworth institute. machinist and tool maker course on the GI bill.worke slmost all my life as a machinist. :coffee:

[Buckshot]

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..............I finally broke down and made time to use the spider for the task that had pushed me into making it. And THAT big chore was to turn the muzzle end of the barrel down to .535" to get the military issue front sight and band installed on the new barrel.

I also realized I may have messed up a bit in my thinking by putting that longish nose on it. I did it originally with the idea that it could protrude through the cover of the headstock geartrain. If you notice I put it on but had forgotten to close the cover anyway :-) However in this case it wasn't any big deal and the 24" barrel still had plenty sticking out of the chuck.

Someday maybe I'll lop an inch or so off the snout and re-thread it. I'll also turn an 1/8" or so out of the ouboard end's ID for a bit of extra room. Probably never will, but if the need arises that's the mods I'd make.

BTW the rifle is a CZ24 that my brother had purchased 7-8 years ago at Big 5 sporting goods, then gave to me maybe 5 years back. It's barrel was worthless in the extreme, but was otherwise in pretty decent shape (buffed off crest). I bought a military profile barrel from Brownells chambered in 308 Winchester and had it installed a year ago. No sense rushing into anything. So to get the front sight sleeve re-installed the barrel had to be turned down, hense the need for the spider :-) Worked like a champ!

.............Buckshot

[richbug]

My headstock is too long to use like that, except maybe 29" Mauser barrels. I'm still going to make one of those though. I need to make a steady rest too.