Commercial zinc alloy boolits

[trooperdan]

I recently noticed that a commerical caster or boolit supplier at least is selling ZINC alloy boolits! They call them Z-boolits and only offer a couple of designs in .38 and .45. The odd thing is the weights offered are traditional weights, not a lot lighter. I wonder what the alloy is? It must have a good bit of lead to have the same density or nearly so.



http://nationalbullet.com/index.php

[Marlin Junky]

trooperdan,

National probably won't tell you the exact proportion of zinc to Pb in their Z-bullet alloy but they claim a recipe was discovered that is castable. Their motivation was to create a Cowboy bullet that would not lead but they don't have a BHN available at this time... they're probably off the typical scale. In reality, I'm sure it's got everything to do with economics.

MJ

[StarMetal]

Trooper Dan,

You mean economics as in how much lead and zinc costs? Well right now zinc is $1.388 a pound and lead is $ .5220 a pound...so it's not cheaper to use zinc and using a little zinc doesn't cut the costs down.

Joe

[Marlin Junky]

StarMetal,

That's my comment, not Trooper Dan's. What I meant was that National Bullet Co. already offers a copper clad boolit they claim eliminates leading. Offering a Zinc alloy boolit with the same claim for a few bucks less is either motivated by economics or marketing, or a little of both... in my opinion.

MJ

P.S. Oh yeah, National claims their Z-bullets are a little lighter than their hard-cast.

[StarMetal]

Mj,

Sorry about the confusion. Yes, eliminating copper with zinc would be cheaper.

Joe

[imashooter2]

I wonder if they've figured out how to zinc plate their bullets same as the copper plated? That would make more sense to me and keep the weight right.

This spells trouble for those using reclaimed range lead.

[StarMetal]

imashooter2,

Man you are right about that!!!!!!!!!!

Joe

[Marlin Junky]

No... the Z-bullets are cast of a Pb and Zinc alloy. Maybe NB wants to create problems for new casters so they give up in frustration and buy strictly commercial boolits... I love conspiracies theories :-)

MJ

[imashooter2]

No... the Z-bullets are cast of a Pb and Zinc alloy. Maybe NB wants to create problems for new casters so they give up in frustration and buy strictly commercial boolits... I love conspiracies theories :-)

MJ

I've looked at the site... where does it say they are cast of a zinc alloy?

[Marlin Junky]

Call 'em.

MJ

[Pepe Ray]

Theory has NOTHING to do w/it.
Range residue (LEAD) MUST be removed. Formerly it could be reclaimed be those who could use it ( US boolet casters). It HAD to be removed. Re cyclers were the last resort. With the advent of ZINK boolets in range use, the desireousness of range reclaimatiion is GONE.
Go ahead,,Tell me this isn't part of the plan.
Even paranoids have enemys.
Pepe Ray

[Frank46]

"The Truth Is Out There" X-files

[trooperdan]

I've looked at the site... where does it say they are cast of a zinc alloy?
Right here:
http://nationalbullet.com/index.php?name=Pistol_Bullets

Their Z-bullet line, only have a couple each in .38 and .45. They are having a 15% off Easter sale this weekend if you want to try some! :) Personally I plan to keep any Z-boolits well out of any impact area I might be able to mine in the future!

[imashooter2]

Right here:
http://nationalbullet.com/index.php?name=Pistol_Bullets

Their Z-bullet line, only have a couple each in .38 and .45. They are having a 15% off Easter sale this weekend if you want to try some! :) Personally I plan to keep any Z-boolits well out of any impact area I might be able to mine in the future!

It doesn't say they are cast of a zinc alloy, it says: "Now using the latest computer controlled equipment we are now able to duplicate this old idea without using the zinc washers." and "We have taken this idea one step further. Now using the latest computer controlled equipment we are now able to duplicate this old idea."

I haven't called them as Marlin Junky suggested and don't expect that I will, but we all know what happens to our melt if we get zinc contamination. NBC must have some wizards on the payroll.

[Cliff]

Lead and Zinc do not form any type of alloy. All you get is a sludge which is useless. They have done experiments in micro gravity aboard the space shuttle trying to get the two different elemental metals to alloy together. From what I understand they melt them, agitate the molten metals in basically a zero "G" enviorment in attempts to get it mixed then cool it down to solidify it. This is being done for work with semi-conductor metals. I am sure if it can be done someone in the metal industries would be willing to pay big bucks for the process. Seems there is some great possibilities to such an alloy in electronics. Don't mean to flame but have lost a number of pounds of alloy over the years contaminated with Zinc metals. Someone mentioned a Zinc washer concept and that does work, has been around for a bunch of years. Works very well indeed. Might be like the use of copper gaschecks drilled out and fitted into the drving bands of a mould and lead poured into the moulds. Main thing about picking it up as scrap at a range is what is the melting point of the zinc alloy they are using. Sure would hate to have to dispose of a bunch of bullet alloy contaminated with Zinc. All the Best......

[Bent Ramrod]

I think the zinc bullets are for indoor ranges that are getting OSHA-type scrutiny about lead in confined atmospheres. There's also some move to lead-free primer compounds for the same areas.

Hopefully they recycle the range scrap directly back to the manufacturer, because, as noted, a little bit of zinc can turn a lot of lead into uncastable slush.

[KYCaster]

A salesman at a foundry I used to buy alloy from told me they flux with sawdust to remove Zinc.

Jerry

[SHOOTER IN EXILE]

Somewhere on the net, I read about zinc alloy bullets. The posters warned that casting zinc in the molds, contaminates them requiring a difficult cleaning procedure before using them to cast lead bullets. Why?

The posters also were concerned about cleaning the gun's barrel after zinc bullets being fired. Anybody could tell me anything about that?

[floodgate]

Exile:

Back when zinc-alloy ("Zamak") bullets were in vogue (in the 1940's), it was found that even a trace of lead "poisons" the zinc, and unless used immediately, they would crumble into powder after a few days or weeks (probably from "intergranular corrosion"). This is a different problem from the contamination of lead alloys by a trace of zinc, which affects the "castability" of the mix. Never tried it myself, but the old articles from the "Rifleman" back in that era all advised using "virgin" moulds, casting pots and dippers.

Floodgate

PS: Grumpy one, do you have any info on this? - Fg

[lathesmith]

I'm posting this as a warning to those considering doing business with Nat'l bullet co.- do a search here, there is a thread detailing some of this site's user experiences with this company. You may not like what you read.
lathesmith

[dakotashooter2]

Lead and Zinc do not form any type of alloy. All you get is a sludge which is useless.

Seemingly yes, but I question if one could possibly swag such a mixture to a usable projectile.

[HORNET]

IIRC, about a year ago (or more) either Bass or 44MAN, maybe, took a pot of zinc-contaminated alloy , held it just above the melting point for a couple hours, then skimmed the heck out of it and ended up with useable alloy again. It was pointed out that that is basicly the process used to refine lead alloys to start with.
BTW, you can cast with alloy with a small amount of zinc contamination if you get the temperature high enough. Gives REALLY HARD boolits though. Tough on a Lyman 45 sizer.

[John Boy]

Back in 2002, I tried some of these Z-Bullets from National. Was not impressed and could see no difference between them and regular 250gr 454 bullets

Of late (about a year) National has been having some cash flow problems that translate into unfilled customer orders because as they say ' trouble obtaining lead alloy'. The Ohio Better Business Bureau rates them Unsatisfactory