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Mark Daiute
09-11-2009, 07:14 PM
A young man has come to me to learn how to reload his grandfather's 30-30 Winchester.

I have Lee's 180 grain .308 mold. Dumb question but is that projectile ok in a tubular magazine? I figured I'd ask and show my ignorance rather than not ask and do something horribly wrong.

I figured we'd load a few with 13 grains of unique. I have some 3031, 4759 and plenty of 4064 so I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,

Mark

grumpy one
09-11-2009, 07:23 PM
Which Lee mould is that? You need a flat nose or fairly large-radius round nose for the tubular magazine - my best results have come with Lee C309-170F, but Lyman 311291 is by no means hopeless.

I suggest you try 17 to 18 grains of SR 4759. That is by far the best and most consistent accuracy load I've found. You have to use a gas check, of course.

SierraWhiskeyMC
09-11-2009, 08:52 PM
Is it the C309-180-R?

I'm no expert on the .30-30 - never fired one, don't have one. Just have an 1893 Marlin my Granddad owned, chambered in .32-40 that I'm getting acquainted with.

First thing is that the boolit does not have a flat nose; it's rounded, but not blunt/rounded enough that I feel it would be a safe boolit to use. You might get by if you made a flat meplat on the nose that was larger in diameter than a primer pocket. Trying to do so by hand would not be advisable.

The 2nd thing is that the length from the boolit nose to the crimp groove may be too long for a .30-30 lever action. Maximum OAL for the .30-30 is 2.550". I can't tell by the images on the Lee website:
http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/bullmol2.html

Now if you were making a flat meplat anyway, you could possibly trim it back enough to make it under the max OAL. You must crimp these boolits in the crimp groove, otherwise they will get seated more deeply when they get banged around in the magazine.

Your starting load is much too high; it's beyond the maximum load for 120 cast boolits.

Start with your case length. Max is 2.0395", trim-to length is 2.028". It's important to get your case lengths the same, or your crimps will be very random.

Once you get your cases trimmed to length, make up a couple of dummy rounds or three with no primer or powder. Get a nice roll crimp into the crimp groove. Then check the OAL, and trim it down from the boolit tip until you're maybe .010" - .020" under, keeping the meplats as nice and flat as you can.

Then load 'em up in the magazine and see how well they cycle through the action. (I suggest not dry-firing when there is no spent primer in the cartridge case.)

Loads will depend on your boolit weight. But with Unique, you can start off with 7gr with any cast boolit from 150 to 183gr in a 30-30 and be safe. Velocity will be from around 1,300fps with the 150gr boolits to around 1,200 with the heavier boolits. This data comes from Lyman #45 reloading handbook, circa 1970.

How stout you go with the load will depend on boolit weight, the intended target/range, and how old the grandson is. Light loads are great for starters and to see what works well.

I suggest that you don't exceed 10.5gr of Unique with any cast boolit in a .30-30 up to 180gr; above that reduce it even more. This is in accordance with published data in the abovementioned Lyman #45 handbook.

IMR SR 4759 is a great powder. My Dad got excellent results with it in .30-06 with a 170gr spire point with a load of 15gr.

However, the .30-06 case has considerably more volume than that of a .30-30. I suggest that it would be a good idea to start off with a more reduced load. This should present no problems, as the IMR SR 4759 powder was designed precisely for that purpose.

Being more cautious as I get older, I'd suggest that you start off with around 13gr of SR 4759, and work up 1/2 grain at a time until you find the rifle's "sweet spot"; where the vertical stringing is minimal. Don't pay too much attention to horizontal stringing; that can be caused by variations in wind.

5 shots per load is not enough. 10 is minimal.

To get a really accurate statistical sample requires at least 26 shots at each load.

Don't try the 3031 with lead boolits; it doesn't work well in reduced loads, and doesn't meter well. It's great for J-word boolits in certain calibers though.
4064 is another J-word classic powder that may have dubious results with cast. Save those two for your "repel boarders" loads.

It's great that you're helping out this young man in learning how to reload ammo for his Granddad's .30-30. He'll appreciate and remember your kindness all his life.

My own Dad was great and generous, gave me several rifles, taught me a good bit about reloading and shooting, but for some reason he never mentored me on Granddad's 1893 Marlin, or even let me shoot it. But the "puzzle pieces" are coming together.

woody1
09-11-2009, 08:56 PM
A young man has come to me to learn how to reload his grandfather's 30-30 Winchester.

I have Lee's 180 grain .308 mold. Dumb question but is that projectile ok in a tubular magazine? I figured I'd ask and show my ignorance rather than not ask and do something horribly wrong.

I figured we'd load a few with 13 grains of unique. I have some 3031, 4759 and plenty of 4064 so I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,

Mark

Hold on there Mark. Judging from what I see in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, your load is WAY too high. Better drop down to about 8 grains Unique and work up to a max. of about 10 or so. If you want 'em to go faster, 25 grains of 3031 would be the MAX. that I'd load after starting at around 21 grains. IMR 4759 would be a good "inbetweener" and I'd look at a MAX. thare of about 16 grains. As for the boolit you have, I'm guessing that if you sized it with a flat top punch, it would be safe enough for the tube magazine. I would suggest though, that you spring for either the Lee 150 or 170 FN. If you want to try some of the Lee 150FN's, I can send you some. I may have some unsized, so slug your bore and let me know. Regards, Woody

Mark Daiute
09-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the great info. I'm inclined towards the 4759. My Krag likes it. I'm also thinking of loading cartridges one at a time till we can get the flat tipped boolits.

I've only been loading myself for a couple of years now and 90% of that has been for my 45/70.

Maybe I need to hold off till I'm better prepared... For instance: meplat? I'll use the search feature.

Later,

mark

MT Gianni
09-11-2009, 11:24 PM
That boolit will shot if you chamber one and leave only one in the magazine. Recoil may set off more than one, but it is a useful 2 shot load.

Le Loup Solitaire
09-12-2009, 12:32 AM
I've been using Lyman 311291 for my 30-30's for a long time; a couple of Winny 94's, a carbine and a rifle. I never put more than 3 or 4 in the mag anyway so the roundnose has never been an issue. I've always used 3031 altho there are many other powders that will work well. I started with 25 grains, taking the loading info from a Lyman hamdbook that listed 30 grains as max. With 27 grains I got groups that were what I wanted so I continued to use that loading. I use a mild roll crimp and keep my cases trimmed to the proper length, checking them every third loading. LLS

SierraWhiskeyMC
09-12-2009, 01:10 AM
I'm inclined towards the 4759. My Krag likes it. I'm also thinking of loading cartridges one at a time till we can get the flat tipped boolits.
4759 is an excellent choice. Be conservative with your loads; you can always go higher. However, if you subject the rifle to severe overpressure, it may become irreparably damaged - as well as the one who fired the round.


I've only been loading myself for a couple of years now and 90% of that has been for my 45/70.
You're an old hand then. :-D Many who read hear haven't even started yet!


Maybe I need to hold off till I'm better prepared... For instance: meplat? I'll use the search feature.
It's an obscure word for a simple idea, which basically means a flat nose.

But "meplat" is thrifty with typing over saying "a flat-nosed boolit"!

Boolit casters are weird like that. [smilie=l:

A Wiki on Meplat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meplat
(just so's ya know I didn't just make it up)

Don't believe the crap about making a boolit shorter makes it more susceptible to wind drift though - that's just plain wrong.

Gerry N.
09-12-2009, 01:42 AM
The round nose - flat nose argument has been around for decades. I load Lee's 130 gr round nose bullet and Lyman's 311291 for my tubular mag. .30-30 with no problems.

Remington's factory loads for .30-30 have used round nose bullets since, well....... forever. Spitzer bullets, I can see being nervous about, but round nose bullets are fine.

Lyman's 311291 RN has been more or less the standard .30-30 cast boolet since time immemorial. If there had ever been a detonation from a round nose boolit in a tube magazine rifle, seems to me we'd have heard about it.

One little thing. Operate the lever as if you meant it when testing. Many M94 Winchesters do not like being treated like little pantywaists.

Gerry N.

Throckmorton
09-12-2009, 02:29 AM
Load one or two dummy rounds,then try them for chamber fit in the winny.
My buddy's gun won't chamber a 180 grain bullet we had acquired,but yours may chamber and lock up just fine.
Several fellas said they just squeeze the bolt shuit and shoot them anyway,but I don't feel safe shooting bullets that are jammed into the rifleing.to each his own on that one I suppose.