But it's not a 458

[KCSO]

Or is it? I had a friend stop by recently and He brought along a 458 Winchester M 70. We went to the range and shot some and he looked down his nose at my 45-70 as being underpowered with even the heavy loads. Then we got out the chronograph. His monster 458 was pushing a 500 grain bullet (WW factory loads)at 1980 fps by the chronograph. My heavy load for the 45-70 pushed a 400 grain bullet at 1900 fps. And in wet pack my 45-70 opened up abut 25% better than the 458. I am hard pressed to see the need for a heavy 45-70 for anything I hunt, but if I got the chance to go to Africa I sure wouldn't waste money on a 458 if this is what they really got. I have gotten 1800 plus a little from a 500 in my 45-70 and I sure can't see a lot of preformance difference between that and the WW loads. Does anyone else have a 458 that they have personally chronographed? Does that 2450 fps really exist?

[StarMetal]

Jim,

Look at the reloading manuals. Happen to have a Hodgdon manual sitting there and the top velocity for a 500 gr Hornady bullet was 2163 fps. So I would think that WW load was in the ball park. So basically you're right.

Joe

[nighthunter]

Most things can only be killed to a certain point of deadness. Once you reach that point most things are what they call over kill. I agree that the beginning point should be within humane parameters. Do not refer to a 22 LR as a deer round because deer have been killed with it. I have killed deer with a 223 but I have other guns that will do it much better. I have nothing against useing a 458 Mag but it will not make up for poor shot placement. Useing the caliber that is right for you and putting the bullet in the right spot is a part of hunting that some folks forget. We have to decide how much power is needed and how much we can handle on the reverse end. Big bullets are GOOD and harvested deer are VERY GOOD with gravey.
Nighthunter

[S.R.Custom]

If one were to firewall the .458 to same extent that you've firewalled the 45/70... heh.

That having been said, I've always thought the .458 would make a good lever gun. When I get tired of my BLR in 7mm Mag, I'm going to rebarrel in .458...

[KCSO]

I don't hot rod much anymore either, I have some hot 45-70 with my bolt gun for just in case. I do have some loads with a 420 rnfp loaded to 1650 and those are my main buffalo (American Bison) killers. They will go through a skull and break neck bones and will shoot throug 4 foot of Buff and break the off side leg so I don't feel the need for anything else. I was just some surprised at the 458 as I had always thought of that gun with some awe (or is it Owww) and all of a sudden I am let down. I don't feel as bad a the guy who spent $1300 for the 458 though. If I ever had the chance I sure would like to take lion with a 45-70 450 fp at about 1850 and cast hard, I think that should do it.

[Bass Ackward]

All depends. If I follow the accuracy, my best performance is either below 1500 fps or above 2000. 56 grains of H322 is a compressed charge with a 375 LBT LFN at 2200 fps. Load is a sub MOA performer that has turned in some really nice groups.

My best (consistent) work is with a 430 grain I designed and 50 grains of H322 for right at 2000 fps. This is the money load when someone thinks a 45 or cast won't shoot.

If I load in between those velocity levels, I work for 1 1/2 MOA on a reliable basis. So I accept reality as it pertains to me and I let the gun tell me what it wants.

Sorry, this is with a 458X2. Not a 458.

[Dale53]

It is an interesting thought to remember that the buffalo (American Bison) were nearly made extinct by black powder rifles (mostly .40's and 45's with heavy bullets at about 1300-1400 fps).

Since I consider my Marlin 1895 to be about a 150 yard (because of bullet drop) gun regardless, I have no need to make a "magnum" out of it.

If you use a correct bullet for the game (cast or otherwise) you can do a LOT of harvesting with the old black powder ballistics.

Dale53