Got the new molds made today

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Ended up with three each ingot molds made today. I used the BruceB model with 1.5" angle iron as the "trough" and made them the 11.5" long to fit the ingots into a 50 Cal. ammo can.

One difference I did do was to made the molds into a "four ganger" setup. With three of them, I can now cast 36 pounds of WW ingot with one pass of the three. three loads each gives me 108 pounds, around enough to fill one ammo can.

I do have one question though. Am I likely to need any kind of mold release? If so, what would be a good combination mold release/lubricant? My local NAPA store is no longer a NAPA and they don't have the DGF123.

Thanks,

Dave

[montana_charlie]

I do have one question though. Am I likely to need any kind of mold release?
Probably not. You want bullets to fall easily from a mould, and you don't want to have to beat up the blocks to get 'em out.

But your ingot mould is not so delicate, and the ingots don't require any 'protection'. So, you just give one edge of the inverted ingot mould a sharp rap on a hard surface and the ingots fall out.

Your four-bangers might require you to use both hands to do that rapping since twenty-five pounds of steel and alloy is a pretty good load for one hand. The ability to shift moulds and dump ingots with one hand is why many build two-bangers.
CM

[stocker]

I have a similar set up with 8 cavities using heavy 2" angle. Theey are all welded together full length and the end plates are at about a 10 degree angle. I spent a bit of time polishing rough spots from the interior and smoked them with a piece of burning cedar. Probably wasn't necessary to smoke them at all. When the metal sets up I flip it over lengthwise onto a sheet of particle board over a cement slab. They drop free from the impact.

I use nearly all the melt in a 50 pound pot to fill them. Not sure what each bar actually weighs but if I empty my RCBS pot to below the half way mark two ingots tops it up again. Need to get another open pot to keep an ingot melt in progress and then ladle it to the casting pot as adding the ingots to the casting pot slows you down while they melt and come to temperature.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

montana_charlie,

Thanks for the info. Gives me a realistic idea of what to expect. My plan is to use the buddy system since we'll be doing a larger smelting operation. He'll use welding gloves and move the molds while I flux and pour.

"Your four-bangers might require you to use both hands to do that rapping since twenty-five pounds of steel and alloy is a pretty good load for one hand. The ability to shift moulds and dump ingots with one hand is why many build two-bangers."


This is also of interest. I'm glad I designed these so they can be cut "in half" without affecting the molds integrity and become "four bangers" if need be.


Stocker,

Did you find it necessary to polish down the weld itself or just smooth things up a bit?

Regards and thanks for the help,

Dave

[stocker]

Dave: I eyeballed all the welds and anyplace that looked like it might create a lock got hit with the edge of a grinding disc. You don't need a high polish, just remove anything that looks like it might lock the ingot.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Stocker,

Thanks for that information, I'll follow your example.

Dave

[stocker]

And it helps if you grind out the top edges of the angle before you weld the end caps on.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Stocker,

too late for that last one, but I think it'll be ok, the guy did a pretty good job and if not, I'll just take them back and have him touch them up.

Dave

[ovendoctor]

I had an interesting project a few years ago
had to come up with balast for a large prop for the high school marching band
made an ingot mold 4''x 48'' out of channel iron
worked great,the lead dropped out with no problem
they weigh 100 lbs and it took 18 to do the job
wen I get caut up on the honey dew list i whould like to find some 1'' or 2'' channell
to make a new ingot mold

:castmine:

[454PB]

I tried to tell ya Dave[smilie=1:

I posted this picture of my moulds like you describe, and I used two cavities.

Once filled, I grab the handle and flip the ingots upside down, they drop right out, and I flip it back for refilling.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/HPIM0529Small.jpg

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

454PB,

Unfortunatley, I missed what you said about making a two ganger in all the posts I was reading and responding to. My apologies. Luckily, if these turn out to be too tough to handle, I can cut them down to two with little problem based on the way they're made.

Regards,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Smelted about two buckets of WW's yesterday. Half in the morning with the tree shade and half in the late afteroon with the house shade. The molds turned out to be quite easy to handle and carry. I placed them side by side and used a soup ladle to fill them.

The only thing I didn't like about them was the soup ladle wasn't large enough to fill each trough with one pass and required two passes.

I used a second dutch oven I had that was smaller capacity wise, but narrower and taller. This made for some difficulty dealing with the clips from the WW's, but much better to dip from , because the liquid was significantly deeper. Also, no weight issues.

After the experience I've just had related to the casting, I'm definately either going to copy 454PB's smelting pot design (Seems simple, cheap and effective.) or get a bigger ladle such as one of the larger rowell's. Right now I'm favoring 454PB's design.

I also need to get a heat shield to help the pot hold in the heat a lot better. The gusts of wind we had yesterday weren't helping anything.

I also had an issue with the flame I'll have to research. I was running a nice blue flame, then when I needed to go get gas for my grill, I took my turkey cooker tank along and topped it off, to see how much gas I was using. After I got back, my flame was an odd green color. I know there's an issue, but I can't remember what the flame color means.

I have some pretty good pics of my setup and I'll try to post them when I figure out how.

Regards,

Dave

[454PB]

Just so you know, my smelting pot holds a little over 20 pounds so when full probably weighs about 25 pounds. If you wanted a slightly larger pot, 6" pipe is the way to go. It's a compromise between weight and capacity.

[Dale53]

My smelting pot for the turkey cooker holds 80- lbs completely full. I fill it to sixty pounds for a "working" amount. It takes about 30 minutes to melt sixty lbs of ww's.
That is big enough for me to handle. I don't want one any larger. Each of us may have a different idea.

Dale53

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

454PB,

How tall is your pot and how long does it take to melt the WW's down when full? I'm real strongly inclined to copy it right now.

Right now, the dutch oven I'm using won't quite fill my three molds (36 pounds) and is taking at least 30 minutes to melt down a pot full. I've gotta increase pot efficiency as to not waste propane gas.

What pot are you using Dale? Sixty pounds would be a good working amount for me, allowing me to fill the three molds twice.

[Dale53]

Dave;
I just measured my pot. It is 5" deep and 8" in diameter. It is fabricated from heavy sheet steel. It has a much longer bail than normal (heavy rod bent in a rectangle) so that it sticks out way past the gas. It stays cool and is easy to handle with the welders gloves I use (only try to move it when it is nearly empty to pour that last bit into moulds). It was fabricated by a good friend from scrap steel at his work (he's a professional welder). He also is a shooter and KNOWS what works.

I do not leave any molten metal inside to "jump start" the next mix. It is safer to start each load from scratch and that is what I do. I have really had all of the "adventures" with molten metal that I need[smilie=1:.

I could use a bigger pot with little problem but this seems to work quite well. It melts a pot full of WW's in 30 minutes. I am pretty careful what I put in the pot but a friend recommends a lid on a smelting pot. He had dropped a loaded round in his smelter along with a bunch of WW's and the heavy lid caught most of the splash....

By the way, Dave, I have absolutely NO problems with my big angle iron mould releasing ingots. My friendly fabricator just ground off any "locks" and they easily fall out when it is tipped over.

Dale53

[454PB]

I used to use a gasoline fired plumber's pot. The first pot takes about 10 minutes to melt when full, because you are heating all the steel in the pot. Once it is hot, the wheelweights melt very quickly, probably 5 minutes per pot. It actually takes more time to dump in wheelweights and remove clips and dirt than it does to melt. The plumbers pot is only built to take a pot of about 6" in diameter, and focuses it's intense heat in an area of about 3" in diameter. Unfortunately, when I moved about two years ago, the plumber's pot didn't make it to the new home. Since I had about 1000 pounds of various ingots already, I have not replaced it yet. I'm going to build the equivalent from a propane weed burner and a home made stand. Plumber's pots are kind of hard to find anymore.

My pot is 4 1/2" deep, made of 4" pipe. I did a calculation, if you used 6" pipe and made it 6" deep, it would hold 69 pounds of lead. In my mind, that's too heavy, but it wouldn't have to be filled to the top. If you notice, my pot has the "pour spout" positioned opposite the handle. I did it that way so I can pick up the loaded pot, rest my weight bearing forearm on my knee and I bend over to fill the ingots. That way there is no wrist twisting involved, it's more like dumping a pail of water. The large loop handle gives very good control and allows for welder's gloves.

I like to have the ingot moulds at ground level. I had a few exciting incidents with molten lead on raised benches.....if that happens again I want it at foot level, not above.

[Bucks Owin]

I like to have the ingot moulds at ground level. I had a few exciting incidents with molten lead on raised benches.....if that happens again I want it at foot level, not above.

LOL, speaking of "exciting incidents", I once slipped an ingot into the pot that was slightly damp underneath. Talk about exciting!!!

Dennis
who was doing the watusi at high speed for a couple seconds! :mrgreen:

[454PB]

I'll never forget my first adventure with wheelweights. Those things were so dirty and greasy, I took them in the house and washed em really clean before melting. The first pot went pretty good, but when it got down a ways, I threw in some more "clean" ones. This was on the kitchen stove. My wife has not been too fond of my hobbies since:castmine:

[montana_charlie]

I'm definately either going to copy 454PB's smelting pot design (Seems simple, cheap and effective.) or get a bigger ladle such as one of the larger rowell's.
Wilton makes a whole line of cast iron cookware. One of their products is a ladle which holds something more than five pounds of lead...maybe six or eight. It has pour spouts on both sides, but the handle is rather short.

Today, I flattened the end of a pipe to make an extension for that handle, and it should work fine. The ladle handle shoves up inside the flattened pipe and a pin holds it in.

Wilton products are available at a lot of places including Ace Hardware. If it isn't in the store, they can order it for you.
I don't remember the price of the ladle...maybe about 10 bucks. But, it is certainly cheaper than a Rowell of similar size.
CM

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

CM,

Thanks for that information, I'll check it out.

Dave