First smelting today

[Rockydog]

Thanks to all on here I tried my hand at smelting today. I bought a propane plumbers pot about a month ago and rehabed it. The basket that holds the pot was worn out, burned and rusted through. I replaced it with a junk brake drum. The pot was more than a little rusty on the inside. In retrospect I wish I had buffed it out before trying it. I loaded it up with some piano key counter weights thinking they'd be a good place to start. But now I'm not so sure. This thing gets hot fast! It melted a tomato juice can of counter weights in less than 10 min. There was a bunch of dross on top without even fluxing. I skimmed it off and added a chunk of candle about as big as my thumb from the end to the first joint. It melted and flashed over instantly. After it burned out I stirred it down into the mix. Almost immediately I got a layer of gold sparkly dross underlaid by a layer of purple. I skimmed this off and fluxed again twice more with the same result. At that point I remembered that someone said dry sawdust works. I got about 3 tablespoons from my table saw and stirred that in. I got a nice layer of charcoal on top and skimmed that. Immediately I got a layer of almost chocolatey looking skim on top. I skimmed this three or four times and fluxed with a candle again. Result was more gold sparkly and purple underneath. I finally gave up and ingotted this stuff and emptied the pot.

I then tried some straight plumbers lead and diving weights with better success but it still seemed to take a lot of fluxing. No sparkly stuff but still heavy dross. Perhaps due to the rust in the pot.

I then tried a pot of WW with moderate success. I expected a lot of dross due to painted weights etc, and they didn't let me down. I was able to get most of it skimmed and made some decent looking ingots.

I'm wondering if the piano weights might have some cadmium or something in them or if it's just cause the pot was so rusty. I kept them separate from the other lead so I could resmelt or toss as needed. Any thoughts from here?

BTW, I waited for the pot to cool and thoroughly polished it and the ladle out with a wire wheel on my drill.

Might try to cast a few WW tonight after the evening cools off. RD

[RP]

temp is a important factor you said it melted fast but did not say temp something to keep in mind

[Rockydog]

I don't have a thermometer yet but it looks like I need one. RD

[Stick_man]

I have heard you may want to flux it before you skim the "dross" off the top. You may be skimming a lot of tin or other valuable material off without realizing it. Melt it, flux it, skim it, re-flux and skim again. Shouldn't take more than two skimmings unless you want just pure lead. Then, don't flux it at all.

Good luck.

[snaggdit]

This thing gets hot fast! It melted a tomato juice can of counter weights in less than 10 min. There was a bunch of dross on top without even fluxing. I skimmed it off and added a chunk of candle about as big as my thumb from the end to the first joint. It melted and flashed over instantly. After it burned out I stirred it down into the mix. Almost immediately I got a layer of gold sparkly dross underlaid by a layer of purple. I skimmed this off and fluxed again twice more with the same result. At that point I remembered that someone said dry sawdust works. I got about 3 tablespoons from my table saw and stirred that in. I got a nice layer of charcoal on top and skimmed that. Immediately I got a layer of almost chocolatey looking skim on top. I skimmed this three or four times and fluxed with a candle again. Result was more gold sparkly and purple underneath.

The color is the mostly pure lead with some tin oxidizing (the purple and gold). It will begin to do that almost as soon as you scoop off the layer on top. Higher heat makes it return quicker. Sounds like your unit puts out high heat. Bottom line, after fluxing and skimming off whatever is left floating call it good and ingot it up. One other note, you stated you had dross as soon as it melted and skimmed it off THEN fluxed. Flux first, then skim. With WW, you can remove clips first, but sometimes you end up removing some dross that would have allowed a bit more lead to return to the mix by fluxing first. Sounds like you are all set to cast!

[Storydude]

I"d get the biggest pot that thing can hold. Plumber's pots were designed to melt large amounts of lead fast.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I load my big, non-plumbers, cast irom pot up with WW, turn on, the propane and when all the clips are floating, skim them off. If there is a lot of room in the pot, I simply add more WW and repeat. WW typically leave a shiny melt surface because of the grease and oil. I skim the clips and crud, make the muffins, always leaving liquid if I am to melt more WW.. I've never had to flux on purpose. BvT

[Rockydog]

Sounds like too mmuch heat is my problem. RD

[Rockydog]

I did go ahead and cast some bullets tonight from a bottom pour Lee pot donated to me by mr mom. Again thanks to mr mom and everything I've learned on this board the casting went very well. I used straight WWwith a little silver solder in the mix. Fillout was very good on a .311291 and also on an unknown .357 brass 3 banger I've got. I cast 55 of the .311 (water dropped) and 21 of the .357 (air cooled) as my first run. I also cast 5 .38-55 bullets out of a Winchester mold that I've got that I'll never use. They cast .372-.375 from WW @240 Gr. they were a little wrinkly as I didn't have the mold up to temp. All in all about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Rockydog

[Rockydog]

UPDATE!

I smelted a bunch of WW over the past couple of months with great success so I thought I'd try the piano weights again. This time I kept the pot turned down a bit lower. I melted 2 large grapefruit juice cans full of the piano weights. These things are Dirrrrty. Immediately, as soon as they were all melted, I got about 3/8 of an inch of ashy **** over the entire pot. I skimmed this off fluxed the melt with a small chunk of candle. I stirred it deeply into the melt and it flashed over and burned. I skimmed a bunch more ash and **** off the top. I started filing my molds and only had about 4 ladles out when it got all crappy on the surface again. This time I stirred it down with a paint stick and vigorously scraped all surfaces of the pot with the stick and with a large serving spoon. Again I got a ton of ashy **** that I skimmed off. I started ladling ingots again and five minutes later had more **** on top of the melt. I fluxed with some candle again and got more **** to the top. By the time I got done I had skimmed the top about 4 more times WO fluxing or stirring. My empty pot is really clean but this stuff must be impossibly dirty. At leat there was no rainbow of color this time around so the lower heat must help. I'm all out of the piano weights for now and don't know if I want to try anymore. Photo of the initial melt with all the junk scraped to one side. RD

[whisler]

I also us a propane plumbers furnace and found that I have to turn it down to "just barely on" to keep the temperature below 700 deg. to keep it out of the Zinc ww melt range,

[WHITETAIL]

Rockydog, Welcome to the world of smelting!:lovebooli
You will find that each and every time you smelt
a new batch.
You can see a new problem to be solved.
Just do your best and with time you will get
better.
But never stop asking questions, because we
have all had good days and bad.
:killingpc

[Rockydog]

Whitetail, Thanks for the encouragement. Rockydog

[Woodsroad]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=49323&highlight=cadmium

My experience with Cadmium.
I think, from your description of the dross, what you are dealing with.
Be VERY careful, it can kill you in a most unpleasant manner.