Stuck live cartridge [Archive]

Tom308

09-07-2009, 04:46 PM

A friend asked my help in clearing his bolt action .30-06. He doesn't have the money for a smith. I once had a stuck live round. I suggested he take a rod and tap the bullet down into the case. Then, pour oil into the barrel so it may disable the powder and primer. On mine, I left it that way for about two weeks before knocking the round out with an old cleaning rod. Does anyone have a better idea? He is without a center fire rifle until this problem is fixed.

trk

09-07-2009, 05:02 PM

Here's a thought. Evaluate it for safety etc.
Open the bolt.
Fill the barrel with fluid - water - light oil - whatever.
Cut a plug of wood about 6" long and tap it into the barrel -- USING hydraulic pressure to force the bullet out.

Rockydog

09-07-2009, 05:20 PM

What were the circumstances that would stick a live round? Is the bolt lifted? Removed or still locked in place? Cast bullet or jacketed? RD

SierraWhiskeyMC

09-07-2009, 05:30 PM

Transmission fluid is relatively cheap and available anywhere. It also won't cause the barrel to rust.

You can get 5/16" hardwood dowels at any hardware or building supply stores. They should measure about 0.312".

Use a wooden or rubber mallet (or just a chunk of hardwood) to whack a section of the dowel down the barrel, keeping the barrel as vertical as possible. Don't use anything metal, as if the round goes off, it might be launched at high velocity. Eye, ear, etc. protection is strongly advised.

Once the action can be opened, just tap the dowel plug out from the breech using a suitable rod.

EOD3

09-07-2009, 05:41 PM

Tom, I think we could use a little more information here.

Factory ammo or reload? Rifle make/model? Is there ANY chance he put the wrong ammunition in the rifle? There are several varieties of ammo that would "sorta" fit in the chamber.

If you opt for the "liquid" barrel filler, make sure it wont damage the stock and keep it out of the action.

oneokie

09-07-2009, 05:44 PM

A few words of caution. Do not use a wood dowel to drive the bullet or cartridge out of the barrel. Wood dowels have been known to break while beating on them. Then one has a piece of wood wedged in the barrel along with the stuck cartridge.

If using a cleaning rod, make sure you have a flat ended metal jag screwed into the rod.

Uncle R.

09-07-2009, 06:15 PM

A few more words of caution. This situation has the potential to be extremely dangerous. Ed Matunas described a shooter tapping out a "stuck" live round with a rod from the muzzle and the cartridge went off - with a wide open breech. According to Matunas there was a fatality.
A live round stuck in the chamber might be well worth the cost of a smithy unless you're very confident that you know what you're doing. Physically removing the cartridge using brute force is easy. Doing so safely - maybe NOT so easy.
FWIW
Uncle R.

Echo

09-07-2009, 06:55 PM

+1 for Uncle, but I think we need more info.

sundog

09-07-2009, 07:31 PM

Tulsa Oklahoma about ten or so years ago a guy brings a stuck round rifle to sports world when it was down on south yale. taking it out of the car, it goes off and kills him. not something to take lightly.

trk

09-07-2009, 08:07 PM

Another idea subject to review of course:

A pipe-vice could be used to provide the pressure for pushing out (with a rod). Bolt out, hook one end behind the action other end on the push rod. Train the monkey to tighten it up.

jhrosier

09-07-2009, 08:25 PM

This has all the makings of a "Hold my beer and watch this." story.

Call your gunsmith and tell him that you are bringing in a rifle with a live round stuck in the chamber.
He may not wish to deal with the danger.
Don't mess around with this unless you know what you are doing.
Don't ever put anything in the bore of a loaded gun.

Jack

ETG

09-07-2009, 08:54 PM

Did your friend happen to try to chamber a 308 in his 30-06? Is the bolt out or stuck on the cartrige? If the bolt is out, can you get a screwdriver to pry on the rim using the breach as the fulcrum?

lylejb

09-07-2009, 08:55 PM

First, is he ABSOLUTLY and I do mean ABSOLUTLY SURE this is the correct round for this rifle.
As you say it's stuck, i think that means the bolt will open, but the round stays cambered. I'm highly suspicious of how you would get a stuck live round IF IT FIT CORRECTLY. You might try a small mirror and a flashlight to read the headstamp.

What make / model of rifle is it?

As far as any of the suggestions of rods / dowels / oil, ANYTHING in the barrel would act as a restriction if the round goes off. That = KABOOM. If the action was open, that = high velocity brass fragments flying out the action. Not good in either case. Use the utmost care.

Please reply with more details.

Cactus Farmer

09-07-2009, 09:03 PM

Your friend may not have money for a smith........(we aren't that expensive), so I hope he has money to pay the medical bills.........or wait for Obamacare to kick in and then we can ALL pay for a mistake!

MT Gianni

09-07-2009, 09:58 PM

[QUOTE=lylejb;658622]First, is he ABSOLUTLY and I do mean ABSOLUTLY SURE this is the correct round for this rifle.
As you say it's stuck, i think that means the bolt will open, but the round stays cambered. I'm highly suspicious of how you would get a stuck live round IF IT FIT CORRECTLY. You might try a small mirror and a flashlight to read the headstamp. QUOTE]

I have had it hapen with a Mauser action and a 243 bbl. If the cartridge is pushed forward and the bolt doesn't catch it it chambers with the bolt being unable to close or catch the cartrige rim.

JIMinPHX

09-07-2009, 11:28 PM

Is there a reason that he can't fire the round to render it safe before tapping the stuck case out with a rod? Will the bolt not close on the chambered round? Is there something else wrong?

As far as him being without a centerfire rifle until this is fixed, Big 5 has Moisin Nagants on sale for $99 right now. I don't know how tight your friend is on cash, but that is a lot cheaper than a trip to the emergency room. Come to think of it, a trip to the local smith is a lot cheaper too.

Ole

09-07-2009, 11:33 PM

Taking it to a professional would be my choice.

Gunsmiths are cheaper than ambulances. :mrgreen:

Jim_Fleming

09-08-2009, 07:49 AM

Whatever you decide to do, Tom, if you or your friend do decide to tackle the stuck, live round, work from the OPPOSITE SIDE of the bolt... If the bolt handle is on the right side, work from the left side...

That wee bit of action just might be enough to protect you, in the worst case, or at least to deflect the flying pieces...

Just make sure that you follow, ALL, of the safety advice, that's been so freely given.

The Double D

09-08-2009, 09:32 AM

Been watching this one...In the years I had the shop open, No one ever brought me one of these. Many a loaded rifles handed over to me, but never a stuck live round. Lots of separated cases.

Usually the first thing I had to do was undue what the customer did and then get the case out. Please never squirt oil in the chamber to get a case to slide out, it just locks it in.

The way to get this case out is hydraulically. You will find the instructions on how to do it correctly in Gunsmith Kinks

Tom308

09-08-2009, 10:14 AM

waksupi

09-08-2009, 10:41 AM

For a starting point, I would want to pull the barrel.
If it is just a case of the extractor not being able to over ride the rim, it could easily be removed, and if stuck worse could still be removed safely with little problem.

leftiye

09-08-2009, 11:59 AM

The situation described by Matunas was at a benchrest match. The hammering on the live round apparently caused enough shock to detonate the powder. The shooter's wife was killed.

wallenba

09-08-2009, 12:07 PM

I'm curious, how does a gunsmith approach this problem? Do they have a special tool or trick?
Like shrinking the case with liquid nitrogen or something. Stellite valve seats are installed in cylinder heads in this way.

felix

09-08-2009, 12:30 PM

Powder was the early H322, a very nervous single base, very short cut powder. The bolt was taken out, leaving the stuck case. A case stuck in a BR chamber is indeed a very tight situation. It happens when the necks are not turned enough. These actions are extremely strong and will chamber about anything close to spec into the gun with ease. An experienced person with that particular action will feel only a very slight difference. That was noted in this situation, and the action opened and stripped from the case remaining. Tapping from the muzzle with an iron rod made the case fly off as the projectile, killing his wife balancing the gun on the bags during the ram job. Tight neck guns with strong actions are for the very alert only. I doubt a standard 700 action would have closed on that round without some undue effort. A SEE waiting to happen. ... felix

The primer was not even effected by the explosion.

44man

09-08-2009, 12:50 PM

Thanks for all the information. I've not yet seen this rifle. If it looks to bad, I'll offer to help him pay a smith. I had a stuck live round earlier this year. I used a method some would probably not approve of. On Mine, I tapped the bullet back into the case. I filled the barrel with oil and let it set a couple of weeks. The goal was to disable/kill the powder/primer with oil. That worked. I used an old brass cleaning rod and a hammer to knock the stuck round out. I've not seen his rifle yet. If the job looks too difficult, I'll help him pay a smith. If the job looks impossible, I'll help him buy a new one or give him one of mine.
I do think you all for your suggestions.
Tom
What do you do with a full load of slow powder?
How about removing the bolt and getting a long, heavy brass rod that will slide in the bore. Mount the gun, barrel up and just start the rod in the muzzle, tied with a quick release so you can get way back behind something, pull the release and let the rod drop to the bullet.
Most stuck rounds are not real stuck and a gentle tap with a cleaning rod will pop them out without moving the bullet. Anything more and you better know what you are doing.

Char-Gar

09-08-2009, 02:29 PM

Never ever drive a live round out of the chamber with a rod! As a kid I saw a fellow do that. The round lit off and because he had the bolt out, the cases rocketed out and hit the top of his foot breaking allot of bones. Thankfully he wan't standing over the bore and the rod did a number on the shop ceiling.

A few years back a fellow at a match tried to drive a live round out with a rod. The rifle was laying on a bench. The round lit off and the rod hit the man center mass and killed him graveyard dead. Some gunsmiths will only do it, by removing the barrel from the action.

Forcing it out with hydraulically is the only safe way.

Limey

09-08-2009, 02:56 PM

Hi guy's,

...they sell those CO2 powered devices for getting dud charges and the bullet or ball out of muzzle loaders....

....you press the CO2 device over the nipple or flash hole, give it a blast of CO2 and the ball and charge fly's out.....I've used one on a .45 calibre rifle.

The bullet weighed 500 grains, the barrel was over 30 inches long so there was plenty of friction to over come for the bullet.

The ejected bullet put a good sized dent into a sheet of plywood 15 foot from the muzzle!.....so you can see these devices can generate a lot of oooommmmppphhh!

If a rubber bung with a hole drill through it was used as a gasket at the muzzle.....the bolt was removed from the over end, the breech end was aimed in a safe directiion....

.....using an air compressor.....give a good high pressure blast through the rubber gasket.......would that shift it you reckon?.......

Safe shooting,

Limey

markinalpine

09-08-2009, 03:25 PM

For only $125.99, plus shipping, handling, tax, title, license, dealer prep, atc, Brownells will send you a stuck cartridge puller: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=972/Product/STUCK_CASE_PULLER
"Remove Stuck Cases Without Fear Of Accidental Ignition
Works when other pullers fail, even if the case rim is partially sheared away. Sturdy, steel collets tightly grip around the entire circumference of the case rim. Slide hammer uses straight-back inertia to safely remove stubborn, stuck cases."

Seriously, one more question: Has the rifle owner tried to fire it?

Mark :coffeecom

KCSO

09-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Well I had to fix this once... The owner tried a wood dowell and broke it off so the barrel was plugged in both ends. I took the barrel off the action and set the breech in Kroil for a week then chucked the barrel in the lather and turned off the base of the ctg. Then I could use a brass rod to tap out the by now expanded and oil soaked dowell. And I will tell you I was one nervous pup as i turned off the base of the case even though I was sure the primer was dead. II had a blast shield in place and ran the lathe with welders gloves and a full face shield.

Rockydog

09-08-2009, 10:23 PM

I'm not smith but if this was mine I'd braise a drill bit about 1/8 to 3/16 on the end of a cleaning rod. I'd pilot the cleaning rod/drill by using the bit to drill a hole through a cast bullet one caliber smaller than the barrel. I'd then carefully slide the rod down the barrel until the bit contacted the bullet. Then, by hand, with a tap handle affixed to the cleaning rod, I'd carefully drill a hole through the bullet. After I drilled the hole I'd either pour out the powder or fill the barrel with light oil to neutralize the powder and primer. After a few days of soaking I'd tap it out with a brass rod. The only problem I could see is a FMJ might be a little tough to get started drilling but the pilot should hold it close enough to center to get a hole started somewhere in the ogive if not on the tip. RD

dominicfortune00

09-08-2009, 11:05 PM

What make and model bolt action rifle are we talking about here?

HeavyMetal

09-09-2009, 12:28 AM

Putting a rod down the barrel, or a wood dowel, is a recipe for disaster!

Compressing the powder charge is what causes the round to fire! Beating the bullet back into the case will do that just bout every time and is the reason the bench rest shooter had his wife killed as per Mantunas article! He compressed the powder and it ignited!

For every action there is a reaction! something to remember in stuck round case's.

The Brownell's collet case puller is the way to go here and if the cash is not available then pull the barrel.

Please remember this is a serious accident waiting to happen TO YOU!

Don't let it happen!

I will also get on my soap box for a brief moment about making dummy rounds to check overall cartridge length on a new round, a new boolit, or a new die set!

If this guy was trying out a new load it would have saved everyone some sweat. If he has a factory round jammed up in there then real caution is advised!

Keep us posted on what you find out and remember no one needs a nick name like nine fingered slim!

jlchucker

09-09-2009, 09:16 AM

If he goes pounding on a metal rod from the muzzle end, a lot of bad things can happen--the least of which is driving the bullet back into the case! I agree with everyone else that's posted here recommending caution and the services of a gunsmith. This is a dangerous situation. How it happened in the first place at this point is not nearly as important as getting that round out and creating a safe condition again--without anybody losing body parts or even their life!

Tom308

09-12-2009, 11:37 PM

I fixed the rifle. My friend must have been confused. The rifle wasn't a bolt action after all. It was a 760 Remington. What I did was look in the magazine well and check out the bolt. It was not all the way in battery. I used a screwdriver to pry the bolt back. Didn't need to touch the cartridge. The cartridge was an old reload. I cleaned off a lot of rust and oiled the rifle. He inherited it about 20 years ago. It was his grandad's rifle. Grandad had it in a closet untouched for several years before his passing. My friend had the rifle leaning in the corner of his closet about twenty years.
All I had to do was put the screwdriver between one of the lugs and the front of the magazine well and apply a little bit of pressure. It took less time to do the job than it took to get the screwdriver from the desk drawer. I'll take it back to him tomorrow and harass him just a little. I may even offer him a hundred dollars for it. He may be embarassed enough to sell it to me.
Thanks for ALL the suggestions.
Tom

HeavyMetal

09-13-2009, 01:30 AM

ETG

10-10-2009, 03:59 PM

Well Done!
Glad to hear it wasn't as bad as you were led to believe.

I also think the offer to buy the gun is a good one, as guns forgotten in closets and draws usually wind up being the suspects in "accidents".

Firearms should always be owned by someone that will use, and understand, them.

I wish I could afford to use and feed the ones I own :sad: I can build and collect but only end up running 50-100 rounds through them before moving on to the next project :-(

WickedGoodOutdoors

10-10-2009, 05:41 PM

Remove the Bolt. Remove the barrel from the stock, usually just a couple screws.

Fill a 5 gal bucket with water and take a shop air compresser with rubber nozzle and blow theround out of the barrel into the water.

then just brush your barrel with wd-40

A buddy of mine foun a Brit 303 in the river with a live round in the chamber. Been down there a couple years and compressed air blew it out.

another guy I dive with found a revolver under the highway bridge with one fired round and 4 live in it. Wonder where that came from?

qajaq59

10-11-2009, 01:56 PM

Why do I suspect that the reload was neck sized? That is a no-no on a 760. I know because I've shot and reloaded mine for years. You may get away with it for a spell. but in the end it's grief time.

John Boy

10-12-2009, 12:11 AM

Storydude

10-14-2009, 08:12 PM

Tom, sounds like your 'friend' has another issue too. He doesn't know how to reload. Suggest that when he gets the case out - buy factory loaded ammunition only. They are properly sized and will drop right into the chamber with no resistence

I suggest you read the entire posting before expressing your opinions....

He inherited it about 20 years ago. It was his grandad's rifle. Grandad had it in a closet untouched for several years before his passing. My friend had the rifle leaning in the corner of his closet about twenty years.

:hijack: